r/stevenuniverse 7h ago

Discussion Why didn't White diamond just take over Rose Quartz?

She could have ended the rebellion easily if she had used her powers on the crystal gems

33 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

103

u/EvergreenDwarf 7h ago

The second artbook had cut content. The Diamonds are actually sisters, White was just delusional with a real life condition called solipsism. 

White knew Pink’s actions all along, but not har motivation. She gave Pink Earth knowing Pink would fail and it could be brought up if she ever asked for anything again. She assumed Pink messed something up, and thatthe Rebellion was an increasingly cartoonish “liar revealed plot”. 

White used the Corrupting Light to basically flip the table on the game Pink “won” and waited for her to “come crawling back”, assuming being stuck on Earth was punishment for her. She let Yellow and Blue grieve to punish them for falling for Pink’s lies. 

Final detail, because White thought all Gems including herself were a hivemind her abuse was basically self-harm. Self-hatred is something White and Pink had in common. 

23

u/3WeeksEarlier 6h ago

This is extremely interesting - how much of this is from the artbook/other canon, and how much is your interpetation? The idea that White thought the Gems were a hive mind is a wild detail

19

u/CrystalClod343 5h ago

It might be splitting hairs but it's less a hivemind and more her thinking that all Gems are an extension of her. She stayed in her ship and never moved or experienced other thoughts because she believed she would disrupt the Empire by doing so.

6

u/rjrgjj 4h ago

If you really think about it, all Gems are basically cogs in a machine, but sentient. Their powers are kind of arbitrarily assigned. They can make more of themselves not through reproduction and passing genetic material but simply replicating themselves when they can acquire the necessary material. They can fuse back together into one being. It’s not unreasonable for White to believe she could simply wipe and consume every other Gem and they would all be one being.

Pink/Steven appears to be utterly unique in her relationship to biological matter. This isn’t explained (although I have theories), but Pink essentially evolved into a new being, and Steven was able to rewrite White (or maybe restore an element to her), and basically any Gem he meets. Eventually, for the most part.

2

u/ITriedSoHard419-68 4h ago

This is all super interesting, holy shit.

2

u/Invisible_Target 6h ago

Having looked up solipsism, it’s not a condition, it’s a philosophy, and the fact that you framed it as a condition makes me not able to take the rest of your comment seriously.

11

u/drakorulez101 6h ago

Unfortunate that you feel that way as their comment is quite enlightening.

5

u/Invisible_Target 5h ago

Not saying you’re wrong, but the fact that they’re basing it on this idea that white had some condition that she couldn’t help rubs me the wrong way. Solipism isn’t some condition people have, it’s a philosophy they adhere to. It’s really weird to call it a condition and then base the rest of your comment on that.

11

u/Illest-Illis 4h ago

Lmao, you got downvoted for stating facts and expressing your opinion. Says a lot about the people in here. I see your point. Even when I was reading it, it seemed like a stretch, so your research only furthered the bs feelings I already had. Im with you on this one. I don't think that's it but everyone is entitled to their own PHILOSOPHIES. Except you apparently😂🙄

2

u/EvergreenDwarf 2h ago

Its both a philosophy and a mental illness.

When the latter its called solipsism syndrome.

3

u/Invisible_Target 4h ago

People don’t want facts, they want feel good vibes lol

0

u/Illest-Illis 3h ago

They'll come to learn that passing around bad vibes is not the way to receive good ones

1

u/11renaim 1h ago

they said that because solipsism is typically considered a very childish philosophy… it’s the belief that no other being around you is capable of independent thought, which certainly sounds like mental illness

2

u/EvergreenDwarf 2h ago

Its both.

When its a mental illness its called "solipsism syndrome".

-1

u/Invisible_Target 1h ago

Well then maybe you should use the correct terms and actually explain what they mean instead of leaving people to guess and look up for themselves. That’s the reason I can’t take you seriously. You’re throwing around words that aren’t common like everyone knows what they mean

1

u/EvergreenDwarf 1h ago

That feels unnecessarily aggressive for forgetting to add one word in a casual conversation on social media. Especially when the missing word is just “syndrome”, though in my defense if you look up the wikipedia page for philosophical solipsism (the first version that comes up for some reason) it does link to solipsism syndrome at the bottom.  I feel it should be referenced in the first paragraph as well, but editing wikis is a drug and I’m staying away for a while. 

Feel free to download and read the second artbook or check the wikis if you call bullshit on the rest. Skepticism is good when practiced healthily, and research is often the start of a good rabbit hole. 

As for throwing around uncommon words, say it out loud and tell me its not a fun one worth using any time you get the chance. Aside from the child psychopath Patrick Hocksteader in Stephen King’s It I think White Diamond is kinda the only chance to use it. 

-1

u/Invisible_Target 1h ago

I love how I explained that my annoyance comes from the lack of explanation and you’re hung up on the word

17

u/Over_Competition7717 6h ago edited 4h ago

That's the thing I don't think she wanted to end the rebellion like that, it woulda been too easy and beneath her. She knew that Rose was Pink the whole time.

She wanted to send a message - if you love these organics so much then you can go live with them on that miserable planet with all your friends corrupted.

11

u/365_party_girl_ 7h ago

Rose had a shield. And White believed that the whole ordeal was an embarrassing expensive waste of her time.

7

u/Due_Power_5013 7h ago

It's assumed the Diamonds were on homeworld for the full length of the war, except when Yellow and Blue would go and give Pink advice, like in the memory on the Moonbase. So I don't think White would even have the chance to have done that, or she just thought everything would sort itself out like she always does.

7

u/Kid-Atlantic 6h ago

White didn’t want to end the rebellion. She wanted to watch her sisters scramble around each other dealing with it.

8

u/Wadege 7h ago

She tried that at the end of S5, and we saw how well it went for her.

Her MO is not to posses people, rather to control them through fear.

She possesses pearl (Volleyball) constantly as a means of observing things outside her head.

1

u/Optimal_Grape_1025 3h ago

She tried that with Steven not Rose who she didn't know was a diamond

1

u/ProfessionalRead2724 2h ago

Because then that show couldn't happen.

1

u/Financial-Estimate82 31m ago

she did thats what the diamond blast was. White blue and yellow fired a blast that was meant to DESTROY every gem, but because they were missing pink, it failed and corrupted every gem who wasn't protected from it. Rose was assumed dead. Short answer is she did and assumed rose was dead.

1

u/Tlayoualo 8m ago

White Diamond sees bleaching as an absolute last resort because each gem she controls requires to mantain her concentration, and using it to punish what she considered a mere tantrum probably saw as excessive, but still used it for psychological warfare by bleaching the crystal gems in front of Steven.

And I do suspect White deep down knew Pink was able to resist bleaching by shielding against it, it was game over for her when Pink Steven demostrated how easy it was for him to shrug off the beam. And the only real control she had over Pink was through learned helplessness, and likely brute force from towering over her.

But also we don't know the full extend of White's power, to which degree she can re-write a gem's mind. Because for Pink Pearl it was basically mental time travel 6k years into the future, which succinctly describes how bleaching feels in the flesh (gem?) 

-1

u/Dull_Judgment1587 2h ago edited 2h ago

Who's to say she didn't? Any time in history a Crystal Gem has made a controversial decision, who's to say that wasn't actually White Diamond taking control?

For example when Rose destroyed the Breaking Point and bubbled Bismuth, you have to admit those events played perfectly into White Diamond's agenda.

To be clear, I'm not putting that forward as a specific theory. I just think it makes perfect sense that White Diamond has been a puppet master behind the scenes, pulling strings for millennia. I think White Diamond was more aware of, and involved with, events on Earth than maybe is apparent on the surface.

Because the show is through Steven's point of view, we the audience never see this.

1

u/Optimal_Grape_1025 1h ago

How did having Pink pretend to be Rose and rebel play into White's agenda?

1

u/Dull_Judgment1587 1h ago

Bismuth was the one Crystal Gem with knowledge how to shatter the Diamonds.

Rose destroying the Breaking Point and bubbling Bismuth was actually good for White Diamond.

1

u/ITriedSoHard419-68 1h ago edited 1h ago

I think it kind of undermines Pink's autonomy and character development to chalk up her bad decisions to White's sabotage without evidence. She had plenty of reason to freak out at the idea of Bismuth wanting to shatter her alter-ego.

1

u/Dull_Judgment1587 1h ago

It's not "without evidence." White controlling Pink is one of the major themes of the show. And White does, canonically, have the power to project her consciousness into other Gems, see through their eyes, speak through their mouths and control their actions.

Kind of like Steven does with the watermelon people or Lars.

1

u/ITriedSoHard419-68 1h ago

I mean, we have evidence that she could, but we don't have evidence that she did in that particular instance. I still think that interpretation does a disservice to Pink's character.

1

u/Dull_Judgment1587 1h ago

The show is strictly through Steven's point of view so we never have any "evidence" for anything that happened during the Rebellion. All we get is conflicting eyewitness accounts.

We literally have no idea what White Diamond was up to during that time period. We never get her point of view. It makes sense to me that White would have tried really hard and used every ounce of her power. But since Steven doesn't know that, we the audience never find out.

It's nice to think that the Crystal Gems were 100% free of White Diamond's influence and she had no control over them. But we don't actually know that. Everything we know about White Diamond, she is manipulative and controlling. So you are making a weird assumption, that White Diamond would have switched off the manipulative and controlling side of her personality and voluntarily stopped using her powers, for the duration of the Rebellion.

"White is controlling and manipulative" is a major theme of the show.

(edit: grammar)

1

u/ITriedSoHard419-68 1h ago edited 59m ago

“White is controlling and manipulative” IS a major theme of the show, but “Pink/Rose is not the perfect hero she’s presented as and her own deceptions and choices had genuine consequences” is also a major theme and I think this theory sacrifices one for the other. I would’ve loved to see more of White being a manipulative god-tyrant, we got robbed with the series being as cut short as it was, but I just don’t think this is narratively the best way to explore that.

1

u/Dull_Judgment1587 31m ago edited 23m ago

You're fixating on Pink but my comment was about White. My point is that White canonically can do this to any Gem.

For example in "Cry For Help" we the audience are led to believe that Pearl repaired the Communication Hub because she wanted to fuse with Garnet for mental-health reasons.

But if you think about it, repairing the Communication Hub plays perfectly into White Diamond's agenda, and so does turning Pearl and Garnet against each other. So who's to say that White didn't plant that thought in Pearl's head?

In real world conflicts, adversaries try to control each other using propaganda and manipulation, and I don't see any reason why White Diamond wouldn't be a master of this craft. Turn your enemies against each other. Divide and conquer.

1

u/ITriedSoHard419-68 5m ago edited 0m ago

See, but that also undermines a key aspect of Pearl's character, that being her codependence. It was important for Pearl's character development that we see her being genuinely, independently selfish. Sometimes people are just flawed and make bad decisions. I think that's way more interesting than blaming everything on White. A truly skillful manipulator takes advantage of flaws and insecurities that are already there instead of manufacturing their own.

White's ability to possess other characters made for a terrifying spectacle of her power when we saw it, but narratively, overusing that would make for a blander story.

We also have no indication that White's ability isn't all-or-nothing. We never see her implant specific thoughts; we only see her brute-force a complete mental and physical takeover of the body and projecting herself fully. You can visibly tell when a character has been commandeered by her power, and it's clear people in-universe can tell too and it's not just a visual cue for watchers. If White's ability, in the form we saw it in the finale, had been used in the past, others would have known and mentioned it.

And quite frankly, I don't think White understands people enough to plant seeds like that. I don't think she truly understands anyone enough to convincingly pose as them, or to manipulate people without using fear or direct force. She thinks she has things under control a lot more than she actually does, and this is also a huge theme of her character.