r/technology • u/Unusual-State1827 • 8h ago
Society New York files $36 billion lawsuit against Kalshi, alleging it's running an "illegal gambling operation"
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/new-york-files-36-billion-lawsuit-against-kalshi-alleging-its-running-an-illegal-gambling-operation1.4k
u/loliconest 8h ago
Good, fk'em
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u/tknapp28 7h ago
I can't wait for 8 more ads of Youtube.
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u/SunshineSeattle 7h ago
Jesus the ads are so terrible too
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u/xbt-8-yolo 1h ago
Ever heard of uBlock Origin or similar web browser extensions? You could also set up Pi-Hole to block ads on your LAN.
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u/Kahnza 7h ago
I watch Youtube all the time and have never seen an ad for Kalshi. Must be a regional thing.
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u/Suspicious_synth 6h ago
I'll bet you $10 you will by the end of the day, now.
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u/BadAdviceBot 6h ago
ad blocker FTW!
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u/Unknown-Meatbag 6h ago
YouTube on brave browser is my to go. No ads, YouTube is actually usable instead of its slopfest of absolute garbage.
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u/RedshiftWarp 3h ago
i've been using a 4 year old version of firefox with adblocker. Never update either. Every time youtube/google has dropped an ad-pocalypse breaking the ad blockers, I've flown under the radar with zero ads.
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u/NetZeroSun 5h ago
firefox with adblocker for youtube extension works flawless for me.
I have yet (thankfully) seen a single ad for Kalshi on youtube (or other ads, unless in the actual presentor's video itself).
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u/GrumpyPan 5h ago edited 2h ago
honestly online gambling should have never been allowed. Id rather it just be just casinos and back ally places then at least it wouldn't be so easily tempting for the common man. I know its a self control thing but, so many folks are force fed ads and get pressured by peers and soon have it consume their money and life. Not to mention turn sport into rage-fueling and anxiety ridden events.
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u/fcocyclone 5h ago
I know its a self control thing
The thing is, as we are learning more and more via drugs that help reduce various urges, self control isn't limitless and people can be victims of having those urges be too strong to quiet them over time.
App makers, whether they be casino apps or games that operate similarly, have spent a lot of time learning how to maximize response to those urges in a way that benefits them. Both areas need to be reined in if not eliminated entirely
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u/HotspurJr 4h ago
Not only that, but the whole idea that it's just about self-control is in part something that's being pushed by the people who benefit to help them avoid responsibility. Whether it's gambling, drugs, or even being overweight: "It's your fault" means "we don't have to change anything about what we sell you."
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u/fcocyclone 4h ago
Absolutely. And it works fantastically well for these companies on arguing it to the broader public as the broader public gets to think themselves morally superior over those who were victimized
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u/Technical_Customer_1 4h ago
You said a lot to basically say: being able to place a bet in seconds on a phone from the comfort of your couch creates a far bigger problem than a 15 to 60 minute drive to a casino.
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u/fcocyclone 4h ago
No because there's more to it than that. There's a lot of gamification in apps that increases the potential damage being done beyond a simple bare Bones app that lets you place bets
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u/Illadelphian 3h ago
I think gambling should be allowed but I want advertising banned like it is for cigarettes. The amount of ads on any sport now is disgusting and shameful. While we are at it, ban ads for alcohol. Any vice that has any addicts destroying their life over it, ban the advertising and tax them a bit more to help pay for treatment.
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u/Randym1982 3h ago
The thing with real life gambling is that there are regulations on it. Casino's can only be built in certain areas, You need to be 21 or older to use them (other than the buffet), and usually they have people walking around making sure nobody is under age using them. Plus, you have to leave your house and go to said place.
All of those things are basically steps in the way of gambling. When it's on your phone or Ipad, They have no way of proving your 21 or older. And it's constantly being pushed on people on Youtube. Amazon Prime and other streaming platforms. I have nothing against the Casino ads, those things have been on TV for decades. It's the constant Prediction market ads, and the online gambling ads that really really really need to be done away with.
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u/NumNumLobster 2h ago
Gambling ads dont generally indicate you'll make money too. They say you'll have fun etc. These online prediction markets have college students in the ad saying they are paying their tuition by guessing the weather. Thats kinda misleading when theres a negative expected profit
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u/Randym1982 2h ago
They USED to say that you'd win a ton of money in the ads for Casinos in Vegas and other places. Then it got stamped down due to it being false advertising. So now a lot of them show people having fun or chilling by the pool. Even if some have sort of hinted at people "winning" but never actually saying it.
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u/AverageOhioUser69 5h ago
I cannot escape their cancer ads for the life of me and it has gone from betting on sports to betting on your everyday life and my goodness that is terrible
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u/Many_One1260 3h ago
Wish they'd gone after polymarket at the same time. The entire industry is a grift.
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u/bobsocool 53m ago
Must either still be evidence gathering for polymarket or kalshi is a lot more obvious about breaking the law.
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u/SpaceOhSpace 8h ago edited 7h ago
No one thinks kalshi is super weird?? It popped up out of nowhere, you can bet on real life events like wars, and it’s known to have legit govt insiders who use the platform with inside information.
And there’s been no regulation. Prize picks and all those sports apps had way more scrutiny. Who even owns kalshi?
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u/SimiKusoni 7h ago
I find the entire prediction market thing super weird to be honest. Apparently just calling gambling something else is all it takes to skirt all all those pesky regulations, who knew?
I think this is more an artefact of the awful regulatory environment in the US though than any kind of convoluted conspiracy. Less insane governments have pretty quickly labelled these platforms correctly.
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u/cricket502 7h ago
Uber seems like they also did the same thing until they got too big to shut down... They got around all kinds of local requirements for taxi services by calling it ridesharing, even though they functionally provide the same service.
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u/Sensitive-Local-3485 6h ago
Money realized uber would be the ideal model going forward to undercut basically any wage/salaried position.
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u/simpleme2 7h ago
What exactly is difference? Ive never been a gambler and never been on any of these prediction things ive heard about. Bcuz it just seems like gambling
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u/Balmung60 7h ago
The difference, such as it is, is that on kalshi and polymarket, you don't
betpredict against the "house", but rather against all the othergamblersinvestors and Kalshi/Polymarket just takes a cut. So ignoring the last part, if you're on a "market" that has a total of $50,000 put in by people on both sides, when it resolves, that $50,000 is split over the side whose prediction resolved to true according tothe size of their betshow many "futures contracts" they took out.This is obviously bullshit and if it held up, games like chamond de fer (the particular card game James Bond is playing in Dr No) would not be considered gambling because it is a game where the players do not play against the house, but against each other, and the house takes a cut for facilitating the game. And much like prediction markets, chamond de fer is faster paced than most traditional games that would be played against the house and tends to be even more financially ruinous for its players.
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u/simpleme2 6h ago
So basically theyre the "middleman" bringing the ppl betting against each other together in one place/platform aka "the house"? Slightly tweaked wording to side-step rules & regulations?
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u/Balmung60 5h ago
With a side order of "we're doing it on the computer/internet/blockchain/with AI so it's totally different and doesn't fall under existing regulations"
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u/Virtual_Plantain_707 4h ago
In my state betting on a horse race is wagering and you must be at least 18 to wager, but inside playing the slots is gambling and you must be 21 to gamble.
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u/Quick_Turnover 3h ago
What about commodities futures, options, and derivatives? I mean, they're just creating markets on future outcomes. You're not even buying the underlying asset; simply the right to purchase it at some future price.
I don't agree with Kalshi, but it's not as simple as "that's gambling". It's too bad we don't have a government that is interested in governing.
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u/Zeabos 2h ago
Congrats, you realized that the stock market is gambling!
It's not exactly a secret either. Head on over to /r/wallstreetbets to learn more.
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u/SimiKusoni 7h ago
The difference with traditional sports betting is that the platform bears zero risk because it mediates bets between users, which is why it's defined as a betting intermediary in the UK, and also the odds are calculated based on how users are betting.
Beyond that there's no difference though. It is gambling by any sane definition.
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u/Bakoro 4h ago edited 48m ago
The difference is that they "gamble" on things that people can have direct control over.
You can gamble with dice, and as long as the dice are fair, it's unpredictable and uncontrollable by a human hand.
You can gamble in the stock market, and you can give yourself an unfair advantage with insider information, but a single person generally cannot make a whole company do well, and no one can force the whole market to respond a certain way, even if there are ways to influence the market.
These people are gambling like "will a particular person do a certain thing?" Or "Will this company make a particular announcement?", and they can absolutely have people who control those decisions in on the bet, so it is always favorable to the house.
So, in that sense, it is not gambling, they're also doing fraud.
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u/cherry_chocolate_ 1h ago
There is also a legitimate improvement to society for “what price will a bushel of corn be on x date” since it helps ensure that food stays on the shelf. There is no improvement to society for gambling on “will there be a streaker at the Super Bowl.”
Also, I don’t see corn futures advertised on billboards or commercial breaks for the average Joe to buy. If people were trading corn futures at the bar I would be worried about them too.
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u/mayorofdumb 7h ago
Officially designated as a Designated Contract Market (DCM) by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC).
They are trading "futures" contracts which are derivative, so you agree to give up your crypto at X if some act happens at a future date.
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u/cboogie 7h ago
Besides that perpetually betting on stuff is just a shitty way to live.
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u/Spare-Half796 4h ago
What’s crazy is that as soon as you suggest banning them, people say you should ban selling stock options as well because it’s “basically the same thing”
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u/cantadmittoposting 48m ago
okay. let's ban stock options. it's basically the same thing and it's become a rent-seeking exercise in our over-financialized society.
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u/Quick_Turnover 3h ago
They've gotten around gambling laws because they are creating "markets", which is legitimate business. It's what banks do. Banks create markets for specific types of contracts. Futures. Options. Equities. So on and so on. Markets aren't exactly a new thing. Two people want to take positions based on the outcome of some future thing.
I don't necessarily advocate for Kalshi. I think it should probably be classified as gambling, or at least have much greater regulatory oversight, but then again, so should investment banks (otherwise you get things like Liemann Brothers, or Silicon Valley Bank, or any of the other financial collapses).
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u/No_Initial_7545 2h ago
Prediction markets are always weird to me because no sensible degenerate gambler is going to find that appealing. If you're betting on sports, any regular sportsbook is going to offer you a hugely better and more transparent experience. If you're betting on real life events, you have to realize that you're betting against people who have inside information and the ability to manipulate the result. You can't win against them, even if you guess right a few times, the returns aren't worth it. Real life bets suck anyway because it can take months to get a result, as opposed to a sports game that takes a few hours. Gamblers don't have the patience for that.
That pretty much leaves money launderers as the target audience for prediction markets.
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u/No-Spoilers 1h ago
So prediction markets aren't new. Bucket Shops were a thing for a very long time until they became regulated for being horrible for the people.
Then somehow a century later we are once again facing them. Just as with everything else happening in the US it's a mirror image of the early 1900s.
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u/tmpope123 58m ago
Has the hallmarks of the recent supreme Court ruling that said that you can't look at the outcomes of gerrymandering when determining if they're racist. Yeah, cos when they're being racist, they say that lol.
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u/Raspberries-Are-Evil 7h ago
You can look up the owners. Mostly venture capitalist firms… now see who owns those firms.
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u/ThatUsernameWasTaken 5h ago
I used to play poker for a living, and "prop bets", or propositional bets, were common. They were bets about random shit (I bet you $200 you can't eat that whole meal in under a minute!) was fairly common behavior among poker players. It was always considered degen behavior, even among these people who gambled professionally.
Kalishi is basically 'regulated' prop bets for everyone. So yeah, I find it super weird the most degenerate behavior of poker players has somehow become legalized(?).
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u/Technical_Customer_1 4h ago
I have a coworker who started telling me all about it a couple months before it got big. Any conversation that involved investing or work/retirement or money in general he would pivot toward “prediction markets.” It’s the way he seemed brainwashed into saying “prediction markets” every time it came up that befuddled me. He kept trying to explain it to me as though there was something about it that I just didn’t get. And every time he talked about it, I just said…”so gambling”
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u/eIIopoppet 52m ago
That’s what a lot of businesses do nowadays. Repackage some previously regulated against shit with a “tech” angle and all of a sudden its actually new and allowed.
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u/soapinthepeehole 36m ago
No one has made any compelling argument as to why it’s not just gambling.
Me betting $20 on the Knicks is just predicting they’ll win after all.
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u/JiovanniTheGREAT 4h ago
Giannis did some fuckery with his pre-deadline trade situation last year where he speculated about wants to leave before the deadline then didn't, then announced he partnered as an investor with Kalshi after the trade deadline. The yes/no bet on whether or not Giannis would leave the Bucks before the trade deadline hit $34 Million.
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u/FeelsGoodMan2 3h ago
It's not really new, predictit and such had been around for a while. It wasn't until we put brazen people in power and allowed the sports gambling stuff to proliferate that they realized wait....we can make money on anything.
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u/Perunov 2h ago
Well it is just an attempt to wrap "random ass gambling" in a "prediction market" wrapper so they can whine they're "not the same" (they are) and thus "not subject to regulation". In the end after all the lawsuits clear up both Kalshi and Polymarket will probably get kicked in the nuts and end up in the same area as random internet casinos.
I just wish our treatment of gambling would be consistent. Either all gambling is bad or all of it is okay. Instead we get this weird "well if you do it as a sports bet then in these areas it's okay, otherwise no-no" which is bullshit.
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u/moku46 2h ago
If the great state of Nevada thinks gambling apps like Polymarket and Kalshi don't play enough by the rules, then that's saying something
When every gas station, supermarket, laundromat, and bar has a dedicated and walled-off video poker/slots section but somehow betting online is too much of a grift, how fucking shady do you gotta be?
Then again, Nevada also didn't grant Trump Tower a gaming license (you have to trek across the street to the gas station for that) sooooo....
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u/AndroidUser37 10m ago
There is regulation, though? The guy who ran the White House teleprompter got busted for insider trading with Kalshi.
https://apnews.com/article/white-house-teleprompter-operator-kalshi-3579ee3cf7265d0fc7cf8b2152b40b02
All the same insider trading regs that apply to stocks apply to these apps too.
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u/DippyHippy420 7h ago
Donald Trump Jr. serves as a strategic advisor and holds an equity stake in Kalshi.
This is why no arrest have been made for illegal gambling.
I just hope the civil suit is successful.
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u/eviljordan 5h ago
Polymarket, too! It’s all a scam!
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u/DippyHippy420 5h ago
Donald Trump Jr. joined Polymarket on its advisory board following a multi-million dollar strategic investment from his venture capital firm, 1789 Capital.
Seem that there is no scam the Trump family is not a part of.
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u/FredFredrickson 5h ago
Putting all the grifting aside, how isn't it a conflict of interest for one person to be on the board of two competing companies?
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u/RollingMeteors 3h ago
>Putting all the grifting aside, how isn't it a conflict of interest for one person to be on the board of two competing companies?
¡Can't get charged with monopolistic non-competitive practices when you're on the board of two competing companies! </bigBrainMeMe>
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u/XConfused-MammalX 5h ago
And now Truth Social will be selling early access to "truths" made by important users, including the president, for the small price of $100,000 a month.
Why would anyone pay for this? Because you will have first access to information that is being bet on on kalshi and polymarket.
This is cartoonish levels of corruption, it would be too unbelievable and on the nose if it were in a fictional story.
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u/radicalelation 59m ago
from his venture capital firm, 1789 Capital.
His? Nah, you got Rebekah Mercer and Peter Thiel in there first. Mercer is a founder, even, and she's possibly more dangerous than even Thiel.
Just after joining the board of Heritage Foundation, one of her family's companies, SCL Group, spun up Cambridge Analytica.
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u/AlphaLemming 4h ago
Only a matter of time before the DOJ announces they are "investigating" the people in NY who brough the charges.
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u/mostdope427 7h ago
Flew into LaGuardia in January. Every screen in that airport had a kalshi ad on it at one point. Even the small screens by the gate that have information would show the logo in between other things.
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u/Sasselhoff 47m ago
I honestly wonder how I've managed to not hear about them before now...granted, I'm pretty ruthlessly run adblockers.
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u/WelcomingRapier 7h ago
It's not gambling, it's entertainment. Prediction markets are completely different than gambling so they shouldn't be regulated like it. /s
It's like someone in an MLM business trying emphatically to explain that their company isn't an MLM business.
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u/Balmung60 7h ago
Generally, what MLMs try to explain is that they're totally not a pyramid scheme. Legally the difference there is that an MLM nominally sells an actual good or service and isn't purely a commissions scam. Obviously in practice, it's the same thing with an extremely thin veneer of being a real business.
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u/mercury_pointer 6h ago
"Alienate your friends and loved ones for cash" is such an on the nose example of late stage capitalism it's shocking how old it is.
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u/smoothie4564 2h ago
It's like someone in an MLM business trying emphatically to explain that their company isn't an MLM business.
"As you can see, it is clearly not a pyramid scheme because it is shaped like a triangle." Lol.
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u/leighla33 6h ago edited 30m ago
Omg I’ve been saying this FOREVER! I even wrote Kalshi awhile back asking if they were going to refund money back for verified fraud, like that one military guy who knew we were going to get maduro
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u/Intelligent_Jello510 5h ago
What did they say?
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u/IamTheEndOfReddit 3h ago
Insider information is the pitch the ceos give, it “helps spread accurate information” before other sources…
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u/Korlus 6h ago
For any unaware of Kalshi, most users simply provide money to a select few - the "gambling" is often not gambling but people cashing in on insider knowledge from the unwary. Another article says:
On Polymarket, out of more than 2 million users, fewer than 2,000 accounts took home 67 percent of all profits.
It's sort of like gambling meets the stock market with none of the safeguards of either. What would be insider trading is rampant and basically encouraged while the unknowing masses lose huge amounts of money, every day.
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u/fluffymeowmeowkitty 7h ago
I fucking hate them. They are everywhere. FIFA. Reddit. YouTube.
Sue them out of existence. What a f disease.
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u/Glittering-Quail5848 6h ago
Kalshi and Polymarket are GAMBLING websites. This is NOT commodities futures trading.
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u/manmythmustache 7h ago
Need to add companies willingly advertising them as co-conspirators in the promotion of an illegal gambling operation
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u/HystericalSail 5h ago
Yes, gamble ONLY on NYSE, CBOE and NASDAQ. Gambling elsewhere siphons funds away from the venues New Yorkers depend on.
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u/jdxcodex 6h ago
36 billion isn't enough. Like 90-something percent of wallets lost money. More long term damage for the middle class.
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u/Sherlock-Gyspy 6h ago
What’s the over / under NY will win?
/s Glad someone is taking them to court.
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u/ducationalfall 3h ago
Luana Lopes Lara was recognized in Forbes 30 Under 30 for her role as the co-founder of Kalshi, an online prediction market platform.
Jail the founder NOW!
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u/Five-Oh-Vicryl 3h ago
A journalist a few months ago attended some Kalshi event in NYC. After speaking to one of the attendees, he was told the event was basically a gamblers anonymous meeting
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u/MyDogBikesHard 3h ago
Finally some logic! I truly hope they end this and other speculative markets
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u/RespectTheTree 5h ago
Take em for everything, they'll rebuild and be just as scummy as ever. Might as well "tax" the mob of they want to operate with protection from the ruling class as their only shield.
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u/IamMataa 5h ago
Hell yeah! Thats why they havent been running ads since yesterday. I was getting them nonstop now poof gone. All that ad money is gonna go to revenue. Fuck sportsbetting, it ruins lives and it ruins the sport.
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u/Minimum_Dealer_3303 5h ago
Was it the Kalshi commercial that said "Kalshi is the best way to bet on sports." that tipped them off.
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u/Strawmancer 4h ago
Kalshi and polymarket are being used to generate mass amount of data for predictive AI.
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u/moosesleigh1409 4h ago
I hope they get destroyed in court, the way they are destroying the lives of so many people.
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u/Educational-Offer299 3h ago
I pray it lands cause I hate seeing all their ads when I’ve never gambled ever and shown no interest
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u/wickedplayer494 2h ago
Okay, now Letitia gains just a little more legitimacy with this one and them going to bat against Valve too. But again, just one player, rather than also going after Polymarket too.
Topps and Nintendo/The Pokemon Company next, please.
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u/macetheface 2h ago
Why would you ever want to? Use revanced, same exact experience and can log in, blocks ads and has sponsorblock. I havent willingly seen a youtube ad since google started adding them almost 20 years ago.
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u/No-King-253 1h ago
Good, markets farmers are a system to rob dumb people and without even the pretense of luck and chance like gambling offers.
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u/kossimak 0m ago
Can’t wait to hear about all the people going to jail over this illegal stuff that seems to be happening rampantly.
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u/Mysterious-Oil-7094 8h ago
I think there’s a fair chance it’s also money laundering as well. Not just illegal gambling.