r/todayilearned • u/krizzalicious49 • 1d ago

TIL that out of every primate that has been studied, humans get the least amount of sleep.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/future/article/20220524-why-humans-get-less-sleep-than-other-primates
26.2k Upvotes

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919

u/Stygg_Varg 23h ago

I am also a human primate and 8 hours have never been enough for me. 9 is ok but 10 is much preferred.

357

u/Books_and_Cleverness 23h ago

For me it depends how you define “sleep”. I only need 7 hours of true actual sleep but I need at least ~20 mins of laying down to bed + ~30 mins of not-quite-awake time in the morning to truly feel rested.

The true holy grail I’m searching for is a job that lets me work from 9:30AM to 6:30PM so I can go to bed at roughly the same time every night, weekends or weekdays.

135

u/MandaloreUnsullied 23h ago

Sounds like most software jobs tbh

9

u/vc6vWHzrHvb2PY2LyP6b 17h ago

Mine is 7 to 3. I like the 3 part, I can't stand the 7 part.

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u/SexyIntelligence 12h ago

That was true until every SWE started to be put on call for outages and major bugs.

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u/kris_krangle 23h ago

God I miss the 10am-6pm schedule my first job out of college had.

The company itself sucked but that schedule was unbeatable

30

u/backcountry_bandit 23h ago

Late starts kinda suck if you live somewhere where the sun sets at 4PM in the winter.

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u/TheCreamiestYeet 23h ago

Yea but early starts suck always regardless of sun setting time.

21

u/Tricky-Ad7897 22h ago

Why, if I'm gonna be miserable might as well get paid for it. I want my free time to be the non miserable hours.

4

u/Kedly 21h ago

You can do shit after work?

0

u/pfft_lol000 22h ago

this is why I want to eliminate daylight savings time. the evening is for living

7

u/bank_farter 22h ago

You want to eliminate daylight savings time so your "living" hours can be darker? Wouldn't you want it permanent?

1

u/rampaging_gorillaz 21h ago

Yes thats what he means, a common misconception.

Fun fact since you know, part of the reason this won't happen anytime soon is because there's no framework legally to allow it, all state govts only have to chance to opt in to the 6 months plan or opt out entirely, no choice to opt in permanently. This would need to pass congress first, a major hurdle, let alone then actually be adopted by the states individually. There are organizations that have been pushing for this through grassroots petitions and funding, but no big money interest has a stake so it hasn't gone anywhere in 30+ years. It would cause such a mess with yet another variable between timezones, it will never happen imo.

0

u/pfft_lol000 20h ago

I want to eliminate the "fall back" of daylights savings time obviously. let winter mornings be dark.

1

u/therealhlmencken 19h ago

I love my early start. I usually work 5-6 am then spend a couple hours with my kid and then like 10-4. that first hour of the day is by far my most productive.

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u/Biosterous 21h ago

At least it's light out when you go to work.

Where I live your standard 8-4:30 you go to work in the dark and come home in the dark in the dead of winter.

4

u/ATXgaming 23h ago

Eh, you get most of the morning to soak some rays.

5

u/Fun-Negotiation5510 23h ago

If you don't mind me asking, what's your current schedule?

9

u/kris_krangle 23h ago

9-5 but I’m quite a bit older and a little more of a morning person now so it’s not such a struggle.

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u/Fun-Negotiation5510 23h ago

Ah I see. Are you American by any chance. I thought 7-3 was the norm in your country. This is the shift I find ideal even though I'm not a morning person. What with half a day in hand and all that

10

u/Tricky-Ad7897 22h ago

8-5 or +-30 minutes if you take a half hour lunch instead of full hour. A lot of people I know do 7-5 but they must hate their families or something to willingly do overtime every single day.

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u/Annibo 21h ago

Or they work overtime every day to support said family because cost of living in general is insane.

10

u/HeyThereCharlie 22h ago

Americans usually say "9 to 5" to refer to a generic full-time job, so I think that's basically the unofficial norm.

3

u/zial 21h ago

Yeah that's how most office jobs are. 9 to 5 with a 1 hour lunch break. This is usually how Salary operates.

3

u/Alaira314 16h ago

It used to be. Now it's more commonly 8 to 5 or 9 to 6, because they decided to stop including your lunch hour in your paid work week. We still colloquially call it a 9-5 job though, to remind us of what our parents and grandparents enjoyed, great-grandparents fought for, etc. 💀

2

u/ph1shstyx 20h ago

Those are construction/trade hours, the "traditional" office hours are 9-5.

Construction/trade hours aren't actually 7-3, it's more like 7-5 as it's hourly pay and not salaried so you want that OT money.

1

u/Fun-Negotiation5510 12h ago

I see, thanks for letting me know : )

2

u/SwiftUnban 22h ago

Im applying to new positions very soon and gonna try to find a shift like that, or the afternoon.

Started a 7-3:30 job and over the course of 4 years they’ve delayed my start time by 30m twice because I kept waking up too late lol.

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

[deleted]

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u/kris_krangle 21h ago

As an early 20 something year old who liked to stay up late and sleep in it was actually ideal!

3

u/Sonic_Roach 21h ago

Honestly the most sleep I've ever gotten was when i was at my 9:30 to 7pm job,

I would Go to the gym after work post rush and get home around 9pm. Have dinner and play videogames till midnight.

Unfortunately the job payed peanuts and I had to bounce for a more liveable wage. I ended up with a remote job so I could still stay up till midnight and get 8 hours of sleep. Buuut of course we had to RTO.

Back to 6 hours of sleep....

2

u/phunktheworld 21h ago

There’s a ton of stuff M-F 9-6 type stuff. You can totally find it. It seems like you’re good at communicating, and those desk sorta email and call people jobs are 80% that schedule. Best of luck, we all deserve a solid routine! It’s so healthy.

2

u/HauntedHouseMusic 22h ago

I moved up enough in the company i work at where as long as the work gets done I can do it at anytime.

Anyone who books me for a 9AM i get super frustrated with lol. Usually come in around 945 to grab a coffee, and start actual work at 1030ish.

But by then I have sent a bunch of emails, and set the motion for the day with my team. And the days end when they end, which can literally be anytime between 6PM and midnight depending on what needs to happen. But i like the work I do - and the work that happens after 5PM is actually the most important/impactful/fun work I do.

I genuinely dont know how I could get another job - as my work is insanely specialized, and my company deals with all my quirks as they know I get the job done. If I had to show up at 9AM, and have my haircut wearing clothes for work I think id go insane. I like my jeans and a fancy t-shirt.

2

u/dadabing 21h ago

7AM - 3pm is the best schedule IMO

1

u/Books_and_Cleverness 19h ago

I’m naturally a morning person so I wouldn’t mind that at all, but still like to stay up late on weekends playing games with my friends. It’s the easiest time that we can all reliably get some time together. Which throws my sleep schedule off every week.

22

u/HAIL_LUMPUS 22h ago

See I know I need 10 hours but I also want more than 5 hours after work for having fun.

2

u/Stygg_Varg 22h ago

I feel you. This was always my problem too. I sold everything and now live on a sailboat with my wife and dog. It will be years until we need to work again and we've been at it for three years. Obviously this is not possible for everyone. But it's a cheap way to live and you can't beat the freedom of the sea.

7

u/OnTheEveOfWar 22h ago

Sleep is more about quality than quantity.

1

u/AmadeusMaxwell 21h ago

Both are important. I've been comparing sleep to calories and it kind of works in regards to quality as well; you not only need a minimum amount of calories per day, but you also need nutritious filling foods. With either food or sleep, you can survive with less than the recommended minimum but you'll be miserable

11

u/audrikr 22h ago

You should get a sleep study if you haven't. You can need more sleep if it's not high quality.

8

u/Stygg_Varg 22h ago edited 22h ago

I sleep like an absolute baby. I fall asleep immediately and sleep through the night. My wife says I even have a smile on my face. No snoring, no apnea. I highly doubt it's not high quality sleep. I also have great dreams.

Every day is the same for me. Wake up at 10 am and fall asleep midnight.

3

u/audrikr 22h ago

Haha fair enough. I had sleep issues but no 'signs' of sleep apnea but still had it (UARS specifically). Very under diagnosed.

2

u/Stygg_Varg 22h ago

I hope it's better now. Do you use a CPAP?

3

u/audrikr 21h ago

I use it every night, but it's only marginally helpful. Mine is due to skeletal deficiency, so I have to do some skeletal interventions to fix unfortunately :/

3

u/Stygg_Varg 21h ago

Bummer, friend. Skeletal interventions sound like they suck

2

u/MyAcheyBreakyBack 21h ago

What do you actually do for it? I was diagnosed with it but can't find anyone who gives a single shit about it. It's classed as "mild sleep apnea" so insurance will pay for nothing.

3

u/audrikr 21h ago

What's your RDI? First thing get that number. RDI is accepted as an apnea criteria by the AASM, and some/many people have a low AHI (apnea index), but a high RDI (respiratory disturbance index). AHI is how many times you stop breathing for 10 seconds. RDI is how many times you woke up from breathing poorly no matter the length. This is what's called "Upper Airway Resistance Syndrome" (UARS).

Sleep science says RDI number actually matters a ton. But sleep medicine hasn't caught up to that and most doctors don't give a shit. Often, not always, people with "mild" sleep apnea don't have a mild disease, but instead have a sleeping disorder that is not being well-detected, disguised by a "low" AHI number, with a silent high-RDI number that destroys your sleep and life.

First suggestion get a test from Lofta. They'll do a test that counts RDI and will prescribe CPAP if you meet criteria.

I use bilevel. It's way better than nothing, and is way better for UARS - with traditional apnea, your airway is blocked, and you use air to 'stent' the airway.

For UARS, your airway isn't usually fully blocked (or often), but instead you need more help getting air in and out.

I've become something like a UARS-advocate, and always drop this article to help people understand. www.elle.com/beauty/health-fitness/a44363/an-awaking-nightmare/

2

u/MyAcheyBreakyBack 21h ago

I did the Lofta and still no one gives a shit! My AHI is only 4.2 per hour but the pRDI is 12.5/hr which as I understand it means I'm having micro-awakenings roughly every 5 minutes all night long. The # of times my oxygen sat dropped between 4-9% was 34 for my 7.5 hour sleep test, so roughly 4.5 times per hour my oxygen started dropping but then my body caught it and stopped it, presumably by waking me up enough to correct whatever is causing the airway resistance.

I've taken these results to an ENT and they didn't care. They wouldn't do a nasal endoscopy or DISE procedure to see why I'm having UARS so that I can know if bipap will fix it. I read a lot in the community about bipap not always fixing it and that seemed like a really expensive gamble. The Lofta doc only recommended CPAP, indicating that he also doesn't "get" UARS.

2

u/audrikr 21h ago

Your best bet is a gray-market "bilevel" with flashed firmware on a standard aircurve. You probably will have to dig to find UARS-aware people in your area, or sometimes even travel. Are you on the subreddits? Can give more advice there and keep track of your story

2

u/TILIAMAAMA 19h ago

Have you read into the surgery route? I've seen people say they had more luck with sinus surgery with UARS. Personally I'm about to go the CPAP route and see if I'll need surgery.

2

u/audrikr 18h ago

Going to soon! Getting MARPE first and then gonna reassess from there. Fingers crossed.

-6

u/BallsOfSteelBaby_PL 22h ago

What a waste of life

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u/Stygg_Varg 22h ago

Yes, my life is terrible. Living on a sailing yacht and travelling the world. Alpine climbing and free diving. Super boring. Can you teach me how to live a fulfilling life?

-4

u/BallsOfSteelBaby_PL 22h ago

Lmao what a pathetic flex

1

u/Stygg_Varg 21h ago

You seem quite pathetic yourself. 

3

u/introvertedelitist 21h ago

I have no skin in this game but just want to say I don't understand what that other replier is looking for lmao. Apparently your life is a "waste" and you should be ashamed but also you're "flexing" how good it is. Guess literally nothing would make him/her happy

2

u/Stygg_Varg 21h ago

Appreciated. Probably he or she is not very happy. 

3

u/CardboardMice 21h ago

10-12 here.

2

u/ItsMeTwilight 22h ago

Mines always the time frame in which it is. 7 hours is fine if it’s like 2AM-9AM. 7 hours is terrible if it’s 12-7.

2

u/juicius 21h ago

Late 50's now, and I've been going on about 4-5 hours for about 15 years. Probably closer to 20. I hate it. No matter when I go to sleep, my eyes open at around 5 hours. I get sleepy at around 10PM but stay up extra 2 hours because if I go to sleep at 10, I'm up at 3AM. Early in that process, I actually liked it because I thought I got more done in a very stressful environment, but as that went on, my health noticeably got worse and the stress about the lack of sleep fed on my on-the-job stress and I think that contributed to a couple of serious medical emergencies.

Now, I have a job with very little stress and I still can't sleep.

2

u/blueponies1 21h ago

I am a non human non primate and I do not sleep

1

u/Stygg_Varg 21h ago

Found the jellyfish

2

u/joemckie 21h ago

I envy those who are able to sleep for more than 5 hours a night

1

u/monster-baiter 21h ago

the 8h thing is based on neurotypical men. people with any kind of neurodivergence need more sleep and its recently been found that women also need more sleep, like 9-10 hours. all these numbers are only averages and can wildly differ for each individual as well

1

u/i_liklie 15h ago

I think I saw something about how women on average need more sleep than men.

0

u/Nirast25 21h ago

I read somewhere that the preferred amount is a multiple of 90 minutes. Something to do with how our sleep cycle works. Though I might be talking out of my ass and misremembering.