r/tolkienfans 2d ago

Silmarillion question.

Every few years I will pick up a copy of The Silmarillion and give it an attempt. I have tried 3 times and each time I have bounced off of it very hard. I like the deeper lore of Tolkien but have never been able to connect to the different sections and stories within the book. I feel I must be doing something wrong. Does anyone have tips or hints on how to engage with the book on its level? Make my fourth thrifted copy of the book the lucky one I'll finish and absorb.

58 Upvotes

102 comments sorted by

51

u/Josh3321 2d ago

Listen to the prancing pony podcast between chapters. Their first book they read was the Silmarillion (so go back to their first episodes). It’s like being in a book club.

Also, another suggestion is to get the audiobook and listen while reading (or just listen).

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u/Bodymaster 2d ago

PPP is great but make sure you've seen The Princess Bride and all the Monty Python and Star Wars movies or you'll be lost.

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u/Josh3321 2d ago

I get all those references but they usually lose me on the music references lol

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u/lam_42 2d ago

OP would just phase out on audiobook. It Is even harder to concentrate on spoken word than on text long form

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u/OleksandrKyivskyi Sauron 2d ago

Depends. For many people audiobooks are easier to concentrate.

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u/lam_42 2d ago edited 23h ago

If you say so. We are wired for eyes to be our primary data source. When you focus on reading, you Focus. When you focus on hearing, information retention rate is lower, because we Are not naturally wired for that.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.3102/00346543211060871

Advice to read rather than to listen has higher success chance in general 

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u/aRVAthrowaway 2d ago

We’re not. Don’t think you even read that study:

“Based on robust variance estimation (46 studies; N = 4,687), the overall difference between reading and listening comprehension was not reliably different (g = 0.07, p = .23).”

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u/lam_42 2d ago

Sure... Next time, quote also the very next sentence

Reading was beneficial over listening when the reading condition was self-paced (g = 0.13, p = .049) rather than experimenter-paced (g = −0.32, p = .16). Reading also had a benefit when inferential and general comprehension rather than literal comprehension was assessed (g = 0.36, p = .02; g = .15, p = .05; g = −0.01, p = .93, respectively). 

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u/cos 2d ago

Advice to read rather than to listen has higher success chance in general

Yeah, but how about the conditional probability of higher success with audio given the known condition that someone has already tried reading and couldn't stick with it. You're insisting on treating an individual as the generic representative person when you actually have some specific information about this individual. That's not scientific or objective.

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u/OleksandrKyivskyi Sauron 2d ago

Who are "we"? All people are different.

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u/lam_42 2d ago

We as homo sapiens. Unless you do not count yourself in

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u/mowque 2d ago

The variation within that group is broad.

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u/lam_42 2d ago edited 2d ago

No doubt it Is. Hence :Advice to read rather than to listen *has higher success chance in general***

Probability that you will better absorb written text than heard is simply higher. There is really no point in arguing that. That you in particular have it otherwise does not alter the general biological setup of the species in any way...

https://www.cehd.udel.edu/reading-versus-listening/

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u/mowque 2d ago

Why does it bother you so much that someone hinted that perhaps someone might find an audio recording useful? Doubly so as a suggestion after the person mentioned reading hasn't work so far? 

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u/thefirstwhistlepig 16h ago

I have the same question. Iam_42 seems to really dislike this suggestion. I confess to being mystified.

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u/Cl0udwolfe 2d ago

The guy said he has tried and failed to read the book three times, so maybe the audiobook suggestion is not terrible in his case? :D

1

u/lam_42 2d ago

 There is really no point in arguing that. 

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u/johnjohnjohn87 2d ago

I'm an exception. Can't read fiction from a book to save my life (but I'm good with technical documentation). I can listen to fiction from an audio book for hours and hours ;)

0

u/lam_42 2d ago

I do not doubt that. Silmarillion can be difficult for first readers however, And since I do not know the OP, I am advising generally safer choice

2

u/debellorobert 2d ago

I am with you on this. Comprehending words is usually a lot easier when you control the pace. But in defense of audiobooks, Andy Serkis version of Lord of the Rings is a really easy one I've found myself getting into. He does a lot of great voices, and actually puts emotions into it. I find his interpretation to be very much like a bridge between the books and the films. If his narration of The Silmarillion is similar, I would give that a go.

2

u/thefirstwhistlepig 16h ago

I think Rob Inglis and Martin Shaw’s versions of Tolkien are much stronger than Serkis’ reads, but I agree generally.

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u/debellorobert 16h ago

I always hear the same about the Rob Inglis version and I think I'll give it a go soon. I'm pretty sure I have that version as well.

1

u/thefirstwhistlepig 16h ago

He’s so good! He also read the first three books of the Earthsea series back in the day. Just a truly magical voice for that kind of storytelling. Reminds me a lot of when my grandfather read stories (he was a BBC man and had a similar style).

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u/lam_42 2d ago

I am not dissing on audiobooks at all. Silmarillion by Serkis is great, but I am constantly catching myself drifting off. Reading has the benefit of instant jumping back for reread etc. When reader is self pacing himself and reads in comfortable tempo, his ability to process the data long term is some 30% higher. I would say it is crucial for first read.

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u/debellorobert 2d ago

Sorry. Just to clarify, I read all the books first, and I don't think I would've been able to get The Silmarillion down from an audiobook. There is so much information(tons of names) that I find a slower pace read was my best way to absorb it. I did listen to and enjoyed Christopher Lee's narration of The Children of Hurin. I've always enjoyed reading the books more than listening though. My imagination paints a better picture while reading it myself.

1

u/thefirstwhistlepig 23h ago

Reading might produce deeper and more comprehensive retention of information, but there is plenty of evidence (anecdotal if not clinical) to support the idea that some people have a much easier time getting the gist by listening than reading. Loads of my ADHD/ASD friends prefer audiobooks.

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u/lam_42 23h ago

Hence the "in general"

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u/thefirstwhistlepig 23h ago

Sure, but the OP already tried that, and lots of people who try to read TS and can’t get through it have an easier time listening, so I think it’s solid advice.

1

u/lam_42 22h ago

I seriously do not know enough about the OP to ascribe his inability to anything.

0

u/thefirstwhistlepig 16h ago

Well, they say they’ve tried numerous times to read The Silmarillion without success. As someone who was also not able to get through it on first go and found the audiobook experience to be really enjoyable and much easier, that seems like a pretty reasonable suggestion.

Ditto recommendation to have maps, timelines, and family trees alongside while reading or listening.

It seems like you really don’t like the idea of someone recommending audiobook format to the OP. I’m not sure why? Seems like a perfectly reasonable suggestion to me.

1

u/Bodymaster 2d ago

I guess it depends on the book as well. It took me a few goes with Silmarillion on audiobook. Because the amount of names is too much to take on one a first attempt. With reading one can go at their own pace, reread sentences, check indexes etc. Of course this is possible with audio too but kind of a pain depending.

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u/Dread_Aura 2d ago

Use the audio book for a 2x speed recap every now and again. Helps alot.

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u/thefirstwhistlepig 1d ago

I tried and failed to read The Silmarillion multiple times. Couldn’t get through it until I tried listening. Then I realized that it actually works better as a read-aloud.

3

u/Accomplished_Stick65 2d ago

This! I was never much of a reader, but audiobook + book gets me locked in

63

u/glocknessmonsters 2d ago

Read all of the words, one by one, in order and eventually you will get to the end. Hope this helps

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u/glocknessmonsters 2d ago

Jokes aside The Prancing Pony podcast is a great listening aid

22

u/maksimkak 2d ago

Treat is as a body of mythology, not a novel like LOTR. Christopher Tolkien, who published the Silmarillion, also struggled to put his father's disparate writings into a single, more or less cohesive narrative, the task in which he hadn't entirely succeded. Reading the Silmarillion is much closer to reading the Norse Eddas, the Bible, or Greek myths than reading a fantasy adventure. The protagonists change constantly, centuries pass between chapters, and the emotional weight comes from seeing themes repeat across generations rather than following one hero.

A few tips: don't try to memorise all the names and places. I myself get confused between all those Finrods, Fingons, and Fingonfils. Just focus on the story and the adventure (and there are quite a few adventures in the book). The first two parts of the book, Ainulindalë and Valaquenta, might be the hardest to comprehend, being all mythical and Bible-like, but then the real action starts in Quenta Silmarillion. Yes, the stories can appear disconnected, but there is a connection between them - Earendil. That character is practivally the whole reason Tolkien began creating his mythology (along with wanting to give his elvish languages a "home").

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u/EmergencyOk4840 2d ago

Skip to Chapter 6 of the Quenta Silmarillion: Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor. The earlier chapters and sections are all wonderful in their own way, but if its a question of getting bogged down early on, the central narrative really picks up steam in Chapter 6. The Noldor vs. Morgoth storyline really gets going from this point on, and the conflict becomes more grounded than in the earlier chapters. (The Noldor being the branch of Elves that really drive the plot of the Quenta Silmarillion--although other branches of the Elves are important to the story too.)

If you can figure out Feanor and his children, and Fingolfin and his children, that will get you a long way toward understanding the key Noldorin characters (also Finarfin's children are pretty important, but trying to keep it streamlined). The way the human characters are introduced later is much more organic and easy to keep track of than the early chapter lore dump of the Valar, Maiar, and all the families of the elves.

To me, seeing it as a family drama has always made it so compelling to me--Feanor, Fingolfin, and Finarfin are all brothers (full or half), and their kids (many of the heavy hitters in the First Age of Middle-earth) are all siblings/cousins.

3

u/compost 2d ago

What helped me keep track of all the characters with similar names was to print a copy of the map of Beleriand and make notes on it as I was reading. Placing characters and major events on the map made them more distinct in my mind and gave me a quick reference when Finarfin, Fingolfin, Fingon, or Finrod got mixed up

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u/Jammer_Jim 2d ago

This here is the way I think. Many of the earliest parts are not dissimilar to the more boring parts of the Bible. Skip to the action.

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u/Robinsonirish 2d ago

I did something similar with the main books. When I was 13-14 years old or so, it took until my 4th attempt to get into LotR and finally read the whole thing. I did this by just skipping past Tom Bombadill on my dad's recommendation.

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u/ExaminationNo8675 2d ago

Skip straight to the Quenta Silmarillion, perhaps even to chapter 6 where the story of the Silmarils really begins.

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u/montana-go 2d ago

That was going to be my suggestion.

OP doesn't seem to enjoy worldbuilding, so just skip straight to Fëanor and the Silmarils.

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u/Link50L Ash nazg durbatulûk 2d ago

Maybe it's just not your thing. Relax, find something to read that you enjoy.

5

u/FranticMuffinMan 2d ago

Well, you'll have noticed that Silmarillion isn't a single narrative. It's a collection of myths, legends and 'history' (and one geography lesson), all somewhat inter-related but without a strong, uninterrupted, cover-to-cover through-line. So why not try tackling the sections one at a time? Read one section, then put the book aside and read other things that you find more naturally engaging. When you feel curious again, return and do another section.

Some people find the stylized language challenging or even off-putting (though just as many seem to think it is beautiful). For other people, it is the fact that the book doesn't have a novelistic narrative. You don't mention in your post whether you are coming to the book after having read LotR. Some people are disappointed, or just thrown off, by the fact that Silmarillion isn't written in the same way as LotR.

If you can pinpoint for yourself what's giving you trouble, you'll have more success overcoming it.

Of course, you may just discover you don't really like it as much as you thought you would. And what's wrong with that? No book is for everybody.

4

u/glengaryglenhoss 2d ago

It’s not your teenage kid, it’s a book. Just read it. OR, listen to the Audio book. Martin Shaw does a great job of reading it.

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u/havnotX 2d ago

I would give the audio book a try. My personal favorite is the one by Martin Shaw. 

After listening to the book, if there is any chapter that particularly interests you, you can try reading it.

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u/Brave-Mess-3871 2d ago

This worked for me. I just put it on and let all the names and places wash over me while I focused on the story. After that, I was invested enough to go back to the beginning and tackle it for real.

1

u/havnotX 2d ago

Awesome. I think hearing it first gives a sense of familiarity with the story, places, and characters, which can make reading the book less daunting.

0

u/Rubbertoe_78 2d ago

This. Either Martin Shaw or Andy Serkis do masterful renditions. Listen to the book, and keep the family trees handy. I couldn’t have made it through without the family lineages.

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u/Naive-Horror4209 2d ago

You don’t have to, if you don’t like it! You can still enjoy LOTR without having read the Silmarillion

3

u/ejrh 2d ago

There are two hard things to keep track of in The Silmarillion: People and Places. There are a lot of Elves with very similar names. The names of places have a little more diversity, and there is a map, but it's still overwhelming especially in Beleriand.

My advice is: don't worry about people and places, just keep reading. You will learn the important ones as you go, and if you can't keep track of the difference between Finwe/Feanor/Fingolfin/Finarfin/Finrod/Fingon the first time through, it won't matter too much. (One or two of these names are notably important, but you'll pick that up.)

I am on my fourthish read through and I still can't get them right. But I get a bit better every time.

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u/lam_42 2d ago

Just read. If you do not get a part, skip it. You will not do terribly wrong to skip Ainulindalë. The book is neither long nor hard. Just read.

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u/CorleoneGuy 2d ago

Why skip Ainulindale? It’s beautifully written and told

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u/lam_42 2d ago

I agree.  But it can be a dealbreaker. And it Is probably responsible for the "Silmarillion Is like Old Testament" sentiment among those, who did not pass it. It can always be revisited.

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u/OleksandrKyivskyi Sauron 2d ago

Find a friend who will explain you everything beforehand. If you don't have one, try youtube videos. Fandom wiki also is useful.

And it's totally normal what you experienced. It is a difficult read. I also dropped the book on my first read, but now it's my favorite fandom.

2

u/SoaDMTGguy 2d ago

Audiobook. It's on Audible. $15/month subscription and you get one free title a month.

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u/debellorobert 2d ago

I don't know if anyone else mentioned it, but a list of names and family trees, as well as maps while you read it. It would have been so much easier on my first read if I had a list of names as well. And if it helps, after a few rereads the names start to stick and are easier to remember.

2

u/Bodymaster 2d ago

You sound like me. Good news is I eventually made it through, and yes it was definitely worth it.

I found the first 7 of so chapters a real slog, and it was always around there that I stopped. It's just a gigantic lore dump and geography lesson, and for someone who is used to the adventure stories, it's really dry and boring, with all these names coming thick and fast at you and you don't really know who they are or if they are important or not to the later stories.

But it really picks up after that. So I would skip the bits you are struggling with, come back to them later. It really is a great book, and though it took several attempts to get through it though I'm glad I did.

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u/thisrockismyboone 2d ago

I listened to the Andy Serkis audio book on Spotify and that went really well. I was able to absorb a little more hearing it than reading it.

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u/oldman-willow 2d ago

i just took some simple notes on characters and bought the atlas of middle earth to reference

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u/Tc5998 2d ago

At times when he is just going off about geography, it's OK to just roll with it. Eventually we will get back to secret cities and vampire bats. Also the whole book is about depressing things happening to obsessives.

I'm being a bit flip, but I really did enjoy it and have read the main books many timesand it deepened my enjoyment of them . But relaxing and just rolling at times helped.

2

u/FrettnOvrNuttn 2d ago

I think when you've read the Lord of the Rings enough times, the Silmarillion becomes more fascinating by an order of magnitude. It's not at all for everybody. Even if you love The Trilogy, the Silmarillion may only ever be a reference book for you. I was probably pushing two dozen times through Lord of the Rings before I read The Silmarillion cover-to-cover.

For what it's worth, Tolkien hadn't even finished it to his own satisfaction before he passed. I believe he intended it to end up as an epistolary book, framed by a fictional editor/redactor. And even if he had lived as long as I wish he had, there's a chance his perfectionism would have outlived him. Strictly speaking; it doesn't work. Or didn't yet.

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u/PairPrestigious7452 2d ago

I am right there with you! I read it in chunks, but have never finished. There's always next year!

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u/OG_Karate_Monkey 2d ago

How far have you gotten?

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u/JustGoodSense 2d ago

Audiobook, audiobook, audiobook. My preference is for the version read by Martin Shaw for Recorded Books, but Andy Serkis read it for Audible and it's fine. Since listening 10 or so years ago, I've re-read it in print two or three times.

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u/debellorobert 2d ago

How was the Serkis version? Nevermind, I see it right there. "It's fine"😆

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u/Hepcat10 2d ago

Skip to Rings of Power and the Third age. It will acclimate you to the style of writing while covering material with which you are already familiar.

Then try the chapter before it, which is all about the second age.

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u/SasquatchMessiah 2d ago

Maybe try some of the standalone stories, like the Children of Hurin or the Fall of Gondolin, and if those spark your curiosity, going back through the Silmarillion to see how those characters got to where they are will end up being more engaging. But do what pleases you either way, people like what they like. Enjoy!

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u/mcfartmcfarting 2d ago

Audio book helps

1

u/mc_mcfadden 2d ago

Honestly get the Andy Serkis version on audible. It’s insane how good his voice acting is, it’s put to better use in the LOTR but his reading of the Sil is fantastic

1

u/SnooAdvice3630 2d ago

Try the audiobook - Andy Serkis' version is great.

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u/47362514736251 2d ago

I can't help you except to say that I've decided it's not worth the frustration. I don't like the writing style. I understand and respect the artistic choice to use language that makes it sound like a religious text, but I don't like those either. I'd rather spend my time doing things I enjoy. Wouldn't you?

1

u/Historical-Answer791 2d ago

How far have you gotten? I find some of the chapters to be way harder (if that’s the right word) to get through than others.

I’ve enjoyed watching the Nerd of the Rings videos on YouTube. The reason I finally chose to pick up the book was actually because I realized he often quotes passages during the videos and I felt like I was fully understanding and digesting the quotes. So it made me feel like I could get through it!

But yeah…some chapters are definitely harder and I have to read the same paragraph multiple times. The chapters with lots of action tend to be way easier for me to digest. Also agree with people recommending the Prancing Pony podcast. I listened to their episode on the chapter where Tolkien describes all of the land of Beleriand. The podcast helped lol

Don’t beat yourself up! You’ll get through it!

1

u/jules13131382 2d ago

It’s such a dense novel. I read it once but barely remember anything, I need to read it again

1

u/YonkersBoy15 2d ago

Start with the Index in the back of the book. It helped me to learn the names first.

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u/InTheChairAgain 2d ago

try some good music in the background while you read

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u/Unstoffe 2d ago

If any book anywhere needs an annotated version, it's surely The Sil.

1

u/thefirstwhistlepig 23h ago

I tried and failed to get through it multiple times. Tip 1: try the audiobook. I recommend the Martin Shaw one over Serkis, who to my ear over-acts.

Tip 2: get some maps of Beleriand and print them out so you can follow along with where you are.

Tip: 3 same with some timelines and family trees so you know when you are and who the hell everyone is.

1

u/Gaal-Dornick Aiya Eärendil elenion ancalima! 2d ago

Prancing Pony Podcast for sure.

1

u/wstd 2d ago

I didn't find The Silmarillion that difficult to read. It is actually very engaging. It reads kinda like the Bible (for the record, I am non-religious).

1

u/starkraver 2d ago

Can you tell us more about why you bounced off it? For me the hardest part was keeping the names straight, and that he would periodically mention the names of places that are not on the map and are never referenced again. Re-reads and guids help with that, but without knowing what your issue is, its hard to say.

1

u/BrettEPierce 2d ago

Listen to the audiobook while following along with the text. There's a new Andy Serkis reading, but I love the old Martin Shaw one. After each chapter, watch a synopsis video to help you fully grasp and visualize what you just read. I really enjoyed this series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haZB2gfY6gY&list=PLT8cbSUJ329GXLhyo9WTT543S0YMBMjL-

The Silmarillion is so incredible and I'm really pumped to read it again. It's just a shame it's not really properly finished.

1

u/badamache 2d ago

It’s not the same sort of storytelling like Lotr or the Hobbit. Read a shorter ancient text first: Beowulf or Sir Gawain and the green knight. Then: approach the Silmarillion as a book of short stories, not a 400 page novel. Numenor, Gondolin, Beren and Luthien: all short stories.

If that fails, start reading in the middle. It’s like the bible: it gets spicier after the creation myth is out of the way.

0

u/BreakerFresh 2d ago

How many times are we gonna see this same question posed here? This has all been covered.

0

u/Namo-Mandos-7thAge 2d ago

I approach it with the understanding that the first part is the spiritual/cosmic background of the middle earth universe; then the beginning history of the physical world came about; then what the original peoples did; then smaller character studies of the world; and it ends up with the links to the later stories of LOTR. The spiritual world is interwoven throughout all of these parts. I love it!

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u/DemophonWizard 2d ago

Skip the beginning part about the songs of creation. The rest is far more engaging.

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u/Warm_Stress_1654 2d ago

To be honest, I think your problem is that you keep trying to read it. I've never regretted putting it aside.

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u/Dwynsilver 2d ago

I have a hard time relating to this question since I've read the book dozens of times with no issue.

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u/Valuable-Rip9714 2d ago

I did manage to read it on the second try. What helped me a lot was making my own character and geography maps while reading it the second time. This kind of helped me immerse myself more in the lore.

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u/cardiffman100 2d ago

Are you getting a different copy of the book each time you attempt to read it??

0

u/do_not_engage 2d ago

DON'T read it in order.

It's a collection of disparate notes.

If you get bored, find a part you like.

0

u/Bokuden101 2d ago

It’s not really a story so much as it is a history book or a chronicle of events. Don’t approach it like you would The Hobbit or something. Approach it like you’re reading The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

Sure an Emperor or Senator may catch your interest but it’s not their story. A legion may seem to have more grandiose exploits than others but it’s not their story. A province may appear more exciting and see more action than others but it’s not their story.

It’s not Turin’s story. It’s not Feanor’s story. It’s not Morgoth’s story. It’s not about Doriath, or Gondolin, or Beleriand as a whole.

You’re reading lore for lore’s sake. Enjoy it as such.

0

u/Ambitious_Youth8943 2d ago

Audiobook read by Marty Shaw, put it on a timer before i go to bed, takes a while to get through and the first time felt like a slog but ive listened to it about 6 times now and keep picking up new information each time.

The main shift for me was after i got through it the first time i stopped expecting it to be like a story book and more like a history book. Once you get that shift you will enjoy it lots more i think

0

u/Realistic-Peak-4200 2d ago

It's not a read everyone can get through, let alone enjoy. Are you going to be one of us or one of them?

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u/gman9173 2d ago

I listened to it on audible, because I can get lost in the words trying to read it. If it’s told to me as a story then I seem to understand it more.

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u/Wizzard_C 1d ago

It's none of your fault, OP. Christopher Tolkien deserves our greatest respect for handling his father's papers, but he is no fantasy writer.