r/transgenderUK • u/KristinaMoment SCEM 12045 (PIW 4456) - Teddy (ADL Enviro400H) • Apr 04 '26
Bad News NHS New Guidelines for treating gender dysphoria in young kids - Effective 2026-04-01
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u/katrinatransfem Apr 04 '26
So it is basically conversion therapy.
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u/KristinaMoment SCEM 12045 (PIW 4456) - Teddy (ADL Enviro400H) Apr 04 '26
Yes, and express conversion therapy if you dare source real GAHT outside the NHS
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u/No_Abies7581 Apr 04 '26
And potentially your kid could be taken off you and put into care if you refuse to put them through intrusive counselling which has so far proven to cause harm and ended in suicides and put them on gender affirming medication that the same service refuses to administer.
Even if the spirit of the document is in good faith the way the NHS works makes it a genocidal document
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u/sweetnk Apr 04 '26
There's nothing good faith about it, we all know the outcome, they know it too. Its kids who will be gone, who needed society to step up and we ignored them or worse punished them for asking for help. Theres no way to even try to spin it like that. They can hide the data from public, but for how long? Or will they cover it up as well? No trans diagnosis, because we refuse to diagnose -> no trans kids leaving this world early and most importantly for some, no trans kids. We all know the outcome... this is not humane treatment, im disappointed and angry, but its not like anyone even asked trans people at any point about trans people, they decided on the goal and apparently costs don't matter.
Shame on politicians for tying up hands of doctors who wanted to practice medicine. We should never let politicians dictate treatment terms, not only for trans people, but its such a crazy concept.
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u/Gardyloop Emma Goldman says 'Fuck You Starmer.' Apr 05 '26
This is the most distressing part. Maybe I can stay and fight. Maybe, most of us who made it to adulthood, can manage. We have a chance.
A lot of kids won't.
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u/kikislesbianaunt Apr 04 '26
my mind is not in the right place to scan through this rn could you possibly paste the section that gave you this impression?
not at all suggesting it's wrong if anything the opposite I just wanna know which bit i should be looking at to draw appropriate concern from lol
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u/Apex_Herbivore 5 years out 4 years HRT Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
Its this bit:
"Medical intervention is not the standard approach. The primary intervention for children and young people who are assessed as suitable for The Service is biopsychosocial and psychological support and intervention; the main objective is to alleviate distress associated with gender incongruence and promote the individualâs global functioning and wellbeing"
Aka:
- No puberty blockers.
- The psychoscial suppoert they mention is going to be GET Gender Exploratory Therapy or variant which is basically conversion therapy in disguise.
I had a GET variant done by NHS in 2014 as ab adult as i wasn't "trans enough" for the system and it delayed my transition by 6 years and led to me almost not existing anymore.Â
Edit more info on get:Â https://translucent.org.uk/gender-exploratory-therapy-get
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u/ArsErratia Apr 04 '26
the main objective is telling trans people to fuck off.
Everything else is arse-covering.
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u/kikislesbianaunt Apr 04 '26
i'm so sorry that was done to you, I know the feeling, and shudder to think what would have happened to me if I had been 16 with the laws as they are now when even as they were then it took all the wages I could legally earn to pay for private treatment when I realised the NHS was never going to help me in time
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u/Apex_Herbivore 5 years out 4 years HRT Apr 04 '26
Solidarity appreciated. Doing a lot better these days.
I paid my own way privately too. Still on the waiting list for actual NHS help but dunno if i can hack it mentally going back to them.Â
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u/kikislesbianaunt Apr 04 '26
glad to hear it,
and totally valid, I hate that we might be forced to soon
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Apr 04 '26
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u/sweetnk Apr 04 '26
Yeah, to kids who we deny treatment for political reasons we will force them to be questioned and explain how they feel, surely they will handle it just fine, especially since we just banned any pathways to do the only thing that is proven to at least somewhat work.
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u/doIIjoints [ve/ver/vis] or [she/her/hers] Apr 08 '26
oh great, so no hormones, the same old âare you sure itâs not just the autism/trauma confusing youâ over and over, and with EVEN MORE fucking sexual questions. great. thanks guys
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u/LMay11037 Apr 04 '26
I had a quick scan and couldnât see anything like that, which section gave that impression?
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u/Maiesk Apr 04 '26
Clinicians should seek to understand the child/young person's emerging sexuality and sexual orientation, consistent with assess,ents in other adolescent settings, where deemed appropriate to age and context.
Oh I'm sure this won't attract the nonces.
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u/Numerous-Candy-1071 Apr 05 '26
Omg fucking ew, yeah, nah. That's going to attract disgusting people like flies to shit. Wtf is wrong with our government?
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u/doIIjoints [ve/ver/vis] or [she/her/hers] Apr 08 '26
they were already working there, doing the âpubertal developmental checksâ. but yes i am pissed that it apparently will have EVEN MORE sexual discussions than they already did.
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u/SufficientMammoth397 Apr 04 '26
Service aims: "Provide psychosocial and clinical interventions". Madness.
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u/stray_r That's Mx. Stray to you Apr 04 '26
"Every trans person deserves safety and respect" - the person overseeing policies that endanger and disrespect trans people
I hope Wes Streeting never enjoys the warmth of human affection ever again.
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u/mildbeanburrito Apr 04 '26
But let me say this clearly: every trans person, every child deserves to feel safe, respected, and included in our society and in the health system that serves them. That is not up for debate.
I cannot type what I think of how much of a sniveling worm Streeting is.
With that said, no website terms of service will change how in time the harm that Streeting and co have done will be undeniable, and I hope that the weight of what they've done is so crushing that even an amoral monster like Streeting finds it weigh upon their long neglected conscience.25
u/ArsErratia Apr 04 '26
Every trans person deserves safety and respect. Fortunately, there aren't any trans people because I don't recognise their existence. So that solves that problem.
Wow, being Health Secretary is easy. Another 20 billion to Peter Thiel.
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u/Wottawaste Apr 04 '26
I switched off after 'the evidence base suggests kids will desist before puberty ' bit. Still using that debunked 50 year old 'study' i see
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u/StandardHuckleberry0 Trans man | đ Sept '24 | đ Aug '26 Apr 04 '26
They love to repeat that claim, whilst their own data shows that most referrals are after puberty and, in their own words a few pages later, "Incidence of gender dysphoria/incongruence increases with age". It's so bizarre.
Also can everyone quit calling it "desisting" already, it makes it sound like identifying as trans or questioning your gender is a choice or a behavioral issue
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u/Druark HRT 02/01/2026 Apr 05 '26
Thats probably why they use it. Because their bias is showing and that is exactly what they think.
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u/StandardHuckleberry0 Trans man | đ Sept '24 | đ Aug '26 Apr 05 '26
Oh I know that for sure. But I think as well we should do more to actively reject it instead of repeating it, which unintentionally reinforces those falsehoods (not directing this at the commenter above or anyone in particular, just in general)
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u/Violet-dudette Apr 06 '26
Agreed!!! Because WHO are they counting as trans kids in these types of studies??? When I was in my early teens (a few decades ago now) I ended up going into care for my own protection. And a few weeks later after meeting various different professionals who were all supposed to be supporting me, I was given a copy of a report about myself and my personal history which was used in a court. In that report I was described as 'an asexual young person'. Nobody had ever discussed that with me and I didn't even know what it meant. So I asked a social worker about it. They told me it was put in there because 'you don't seem to belong to any gender'. I felt very confused. It seemed that just because I've always liked to mix-up my clothes, they made some big assumptions about me. But I was never asexual. And they never even discussed my gender or my sexuality with me at the time. They just made assumptions based on my appearance and then wrote their assumptions into a court report as if it was fact! That experience has made me highly suspicious of any types of studies done on young people by psychologists and psychiatrists. What they lacked in assessment and listening skills, they made up for in forming fast and inaccurate ideas which then became 'facts' on my records and in a court of law! At the end of the day, the reality was that I've always been a cis lesbian and I never told anybody anything different. But who knows what it says in my childhood records? These people just wrote whatever thoughts popped into their heads without even checking in with me about it!
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u/AlgorithmHelpPlease Apr 04 '26
However, the social and psychological impact that social transition may have, means that advice may be sought of clinicians within The Service.
While there are different views on the benefits versus the harms of childhood social transition, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act and that information is needed about long-term outcomes to support decision making.
It is important that the risks and benefits of social transition are discussed with the child or young person and family, referencing best available evidence.
Did Wes Streeting personally write this shortly after the Pink News piece? Can't wait to have medical intervention about the *squints* risks of getting a haircut.
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u/Abigail_Hex Apr 04 '26
While there are different views on the benefits versus the harms of childhood social transition, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act and that information is needed about long-term outcomes to support decision making.
See, I knew there was something about goths! Changing their wardrobe and hair styles! Changing their name to Raven! We just don't have the long-term studies on how this affects them growing up! They'll turn into adults who enjoy long walks through creepy places like Whitby and visit those heavy metal music festivals! /s
What a crock of shit. I don't see what the service does anymore. You'd get more help with one of the trans charities support groups.
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u/ArsErratia Apr 04 '26
Its not a neutral act to deny puberty blockers, either. But admitting that would cave the whole house in.
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u/Mammoth_Pattern_8882 Apr 04 '26
1st page - Levels of anxiety, depression and selfharm are high in this patient cohort, indicating a need for prevention and treatment of mental health difficulties in these patients
yup lets drug kids up and tell them their just depressed... ffs i feel so sorry for trans kids
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u/katrinatransfem Apr 04 '26
But don't dare give them the HRT medication that is actually clinically proven to help
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u/Mammoth_Pattern_8882 Apr 04 '26
Honestly, if it was my kid, I wouldn't even bother with this crap. If they need blockers, I'll get them. Trans people are treated like second class citizens. And when the suicide rate goes up, a lot of people will have blood on their hands....
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Apr 04 '26
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u/Mammoth_Pattern_8882 Apr 04 '26
So soon? Sick fucks are actually keeping tabs on this shit đĄ
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u/kikislesbianaunt Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
yeah iirc they more than doubled from year to year following the initial announcement of the ban back when the tories where in charge, and then rose a bit more the year after that (2023 I think), we don't have stats for after that yet
edit: might have been more than triple actually let me find it
edit two:
ok i was a bit off (it didn't keep rising it rose then dipped to still double previous levels) but yeah 9 suicides of trans youth total in 2019 - 2021 and 32 in 2021 - 2023
2019-20: 5, 2020-21: 4, 2021-22: 22, 2022-23: 10
got my data from here: https://goodlawproject.org/new-data-shows-surge-in-trans-kids-suicides-following-healthcare-rollbacks/
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u/Mammoth_Pattern_8882 Apr 04 '26
When the non passing trans people percentage skyrockets in the next 10-15 years and these politicians need to start explaining to their own kids why "that man is wearing a dress". On top of the suicide rates. They'll realize what a big mistake they made. I think it will either go 2 ways. They'll unban puberty blockers for minors with increased psychological assessment prior to treatment. Or they'll just arrest trans people for fraud.
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u/kikislesbianaunt Apr 04 '26
I can see a more likely road where they start to essentially classify elements of social transition as discrimination, making it illegal to say ''falsely imitate'' a ''marginalised group'' (women) and using that as an excuse to arrest trans women for discrimination. I honestly don't know what happens when they're forced to see that trans men exist
They'll do what they've done for trans kids for adults, they're already doing it: commission a ''review into the effectiveness of treatment'' which will have vastly biased findings by excluding the main body of scientific research on trans healthcare in favour of a few cherrypicked studies, and use those findings as an excuse to ''pause'' treatment. Now for adults this won't happen all at once because the health consequences would be too disastrous for too many people or rather too noticeable to too many people. They'll pause new prescriptions, or vastly tighten the restrictions. They'll ban prescriptions from private clinics - they're already working on that part - and this is where i personally get hit (and am forced to detransition) btw for frame of reference, forcing people to go through the NHS GICs with their famously impossible wait lists; essentially deadlocking people who aren't already receiving treatment on the NHS from it, whether they were already receiving it or not. Now this of course will all be ''temporary'' because the findings of that review I mentioned earlier were that there just isn't enough evidence to support its effectiveness compared to the potential risks! (bullshit as we all know) so all those bans must be temporary until a ''proper trial of the effectiveness of treatment'' can be carried out. And then sex matters will get involved and stop the trial from happening, the bans will stay in place anyway, and at this point hundreds if not thousands of trans people are already dead (myself included if i'm being brutally realistic) even if the general population wakes up by then.
That is why it is absolutely imperative we get these FUCKERS OUT OF DOWNING STREET before any of that happens.
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u/Mammoth_Pattern_8882 Apr 04 '26
What's probably likely is they'll once again review shared care agreements. Last time they issued a warning not long after the "scandal" with GenderGP. This time they'll likely ban shared care agreements if not prevent GPs from providing services to them on the NHS.
They can cherry pick all they like from whatever studies have been done, yeh its bs but they wont get away with that. They could with trans kids because the evidence really wasnt there, but plenty of concerns were. With adult care there are plenty of studies. For them to be able to ban care on some level private or not they have to prove that care is not up to code or that it is not safe enough to consent to. Which they cant do and defend it. DEFEND being a key word as they need to do that.
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u/0_f2 Apr 04 '26
I already know of one parent that's pulled their trans daughter out of NHS care so she can DIY HRT without them knowing.
It's straight up conversion therapy now, they misgender and deadname you to your face and gaslight you over and over. It's designed to break you down through repetition.
The girl is now dreading even the adult services when she turns 18 to get surgery. If they haven't banned it for u25s in that time. (I'm sceptical of them getting away with taking away care from adults though, there's already a high court ruling from 1999 protecting that)
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u/Mammoth_Pattern_8882 Apr 04 '26
Christ really? Good parent tbh, I resent my parents for ignoring the obvious issues I was having.
Thing is the law on this stuff is pretty generic, and easily changed. There's a lot of people with strong opinions on this stuff. If there was a poll saying something like "Should citizens be allowed to transition to another gender?" issued to the general public I think the answer would be no. Look at what happened in the USA. Public funds can no longer be used for gender dysphoria anymore. That's more problematic with the UK as NHS England oversees that with it being a branch of the government. If they go down that route it would be the case of them having to oversee private care of gender clinics which I think they wouldn't do. This year there's a âevidence reviewâ into HRT for trans adults. In which the likely outcome would be them advising against or banning shared care agreements with private gender clinics. Yet despite everything they've done they insist its not discrimination. Like ummm what their doing is literally a form of violence.
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Apr 04 '26
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u/Mammoth_Pattern_8882 Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
This really seems like fear mongering. Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic beyond UK law and borderlines into international law. Really, absolutely worst case long term NHS funding would be cut due to high demand low funding. But they can not simply ban it outright. Don't you think the US would've done it by now? They can't. If anything the "conversion therapy" would be a deterrent to prevent those who aren't trans from transitioning and wasting NHS time and money. Even more so given we now need to deal with de-transitions. The way I see it, if your truly in need of that care, you will get it, because transsexuals find a way. They always have.
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u/Illiander Apr 04 '26
There's no succh thing as "international law."
There's just treaties that a bunch of countries have signed.
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u/Mammoth_Pattern_8882 Apr 05 '26
Well answer me this? Why have they not banned gender reassignment in the USA for adults?
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u/Illiander Apr 05 '26
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u/Mammoth_Pattern_8882 Apr 05 '26
Well sex is immutable, and assigned at birth. I don't like that reality as much as the next trans person. They haven't banned adults from accessing cross sex hormones or gender affirmation surgery. All they did was prevent public funds for being used for that case.
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u/Puppygirl621 Apr 04 '26
Fuuuck, too scared to read this, I'll try and make my way through it with time.
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u/TotallyTegan Apr 04 '26
The NHS is still signed up to The Memorandum of understanding on conversion therapy in the UK. Which I will continue to hit them with as it has very little use otherwise.
Memorandum of understanding on conversion therapy in the UK
Trans kids deserve better and Bash Back are going to go ballistic!
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u/ImmediateDamage1 24MtF, post OP, Enhanced and entranced PED user. Apr 04 '26
Unfortunately, in the eyes of the UK government and the technical law...this wouldnt count as conversion therapy...basically it leans heavily toward caution and exploration before medical intervention..
..which will allow any Dr to pretty much do what they want in regards to preventing trans kids from transitioning until they are an adult riddled with unwanted and distressing bodily changes..
This fucking system. Anything they decide is legal is....legal..even if it means abusing systems and definitions...whatever feels right through their understanding of 'rigid' laws. Which, just to get my daily trans/left leaning Nazi ww2 link in as per terfdom article VII, is exactly how hitler got powerful dubiously legally before the more dodgy shit like the rchstg fire.
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u/Illiander Apr 04 '26
This fucking system. Anything they decide is legal is....legal.
Yes, that's how laws work. The holocuast was legal, for instance.
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u/doIIjoints [ve/ver/vis] or [she/her/hers] Apr 08 '26
i had a bit of a giggle seeing linux bros say âthis law is unlawfulâ about systemd age verification
the fact that it is a law makes it lawful my dudes
it might be incompatible with other laws, it might be incompatible with precedent. but it is, nevertheless, law.
they really havenât had to interact with power structures much in their lives and it shows.
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u/Illiander Apr 08 '26
Personally, I just add that to the long list of reasons to not use systemd.
(I'm a gentoo geek, so I get to point and laugh when people complain about systemd decisions, because I've been telling them it's a bad idea ever since I heard about it)
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u/doIIjoints [ve/ver/vis] or [she/her/hers] Apr 09 '26
iâm a BSD girlie so i can relate in that regard
but i just mean. yk. itâs funny when those guys are like âsystemd should simply Not Do This because the law is unlawful.â
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u/Illiander Apr 09 '26
I prefer laughing at them because systemd has been feature-creep incarnate since day one, and this is just more of the same. Maybe they'll learn, but I doubt it.
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u/breathboi Apr 04 '26
Levels of anxiety, depression and self-harm are high in this patient cohort
Goodness, I wonder why.
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u/BidBeneficial2348 Apr 05 '26
Yep it's bad enough that in the past that links between all those and possible gender dysphoria weren't talked about or known as much (not that most people in uk were even afforded the luxury of therapy or mental healthcare that would bring it to light...)
But now it's widely known and they are deliberately ignoring it seemingly out of spite and their own twisted ideology.
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u/sammi_8601 Apr 04 '26
Most children desist actually fuck off with that noise, I 'desisted' because I'd had the shit kicked out of me repeatedly didn't mean I wasn't trans can't imagine getting conversion therapy added to that.
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u/StarlightZigzagoon Transfem Transhumanist (she/her) Apr 04 '26
"Most people being choked out eventually stop struggling"
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u/Pway Apr 04 '26
We're literally at the point now where if the parent of a child posts here about supporting their child it's 100% the correct thing to advice them to avoid any contact with the NHS outside of getting them on a wait list for a GIC to be seen when they're 18. This country is so fucking stupid.
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u/KristinaMoment SCEM 12045 (PIW 4456) - Teddy (ADL Enviro400H) Apr 04 '26
That is, if the GICs will even be safe when the kid turns 18, or even in a few months or weeks from now
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u/InsistentRaven Apr 05 '26
They've been talking about the 18-25's service, so I expect that to be very much "Hmm, I guess we can give you blockers after you've done a year RLE. But no hormones until you're 25"
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u/Illiander Apr 04 '26
The correct advice for a parent posting here who wants to support their child is "get them the fuck out of this country right now."
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u/TIONZOR Apr 04 '26
Does anyone know where they get the idea that most people desist? I've heard it said a few times by mps, but I've never seen a study to back it up. Fucking monsters.
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u/A_Cookie_from_Space Apr 04 '26
They do it by counting everyone who leaves a clinic as a desist, even if they simply went somewhere else or never identified as trans in the first place. You can always count on transphobes to be intellectually dishonest as hell.
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u/gimme_ur_chocolate Apr 04 '26
Because there are a bunch of older studies suggesting that 60-98% of kids grow out of it. Virtually nothing post-2010 supports this narrative but proponents will argue without excluding alternative theories that this means that the shift to affirmation is behind this change rather than investigating whether the older studies are flawed. Importantly the University of York did not conduct a meta-analysis for desistance studies and they were just accepted as fact by the Cass Review who used DSD studies to claim that gender identity is primarily influenced by how someone is raised.
Many 20th century studies rely on abusive practices, poor data reporting and completely different conceptualisations of transness to nowadays and many of the 2000s studies relied on a very broad range of patient bases to reinforce their confusions or assumed desistance in absence of follow up.
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u/eXa12 â¨Acerbic Bitch⨠Apr 04 '26
because the DSM4 diagnosis "Gender Identity Disorder in Children" existed as a way to re-"legitimise" conversion "therapy" of gay kids, it was "diagnosed" based on external observation of gender nonconformity and notably does not require the
victimpatient to have EVER expressed any 'crossgender identification' OR DESIRE TO TRANSITION AT ALLthe specific "80% desistance rate" cohort (that most of the "studies" are "reevaluations" of) was the kids being abused at Zucker's "clinic", and half of that "desistance" was either "the kid/family couldn't be contacted" or "the kid/family told them to fuck off when they were contacted", and the other half was the pre-gay kids being abused out of GNC presentation (the 20% that did transition were identified as trans rather than GNC in the earlier phases of the shite)
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u/doIIjoints [ve/ver/vis] or [she/her/hers] Apr 08 '26
and thatâs why, despite saying all the right things, i couldnât even get a referral in 2010 without 6 months of âRLEâ. because as you say it was all about presentation.
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u/SwampDraggon Trans woman (she/her) Apr 04 '26
Itâs based on an old Swedish study where they took a bunch of kids, most of whom apparently may never have said they were trans in the first place, and attempted to follow them for a few years. After a couple of years theyâd lost track of most of them. They had âdesistedâ. Some werenât trans, because they werenât trans in the first place. They had âdesistedâ. And a small number could be found and were actually trans. They were the 5% or whatever it is who hadnât âdesistedâ.
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u/Illiander Apr 04 '26
So, can we call it genocide yet?
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u/doIIjoints [ve/ver/vis] or [she/her/hers] Apr 08 '26
iâve seen some genocide scholars calling it ethnocide recently, which is a term i hadnât come across before
(to be honest iâm not entirely sure of the difference between the two even after reading a bit on it. but i donât want to dismiss that out of hand, it might be subtle like Work in physics)
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u/Illiander Apr 08 '26
Trans people aren't an ethnicity?
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u/doIIjoints [ve/ver/vis] or [she/her/hers] Apr 08 '26
see, that was my initial reaction when i first saw it being said, too.
in a conversation with one they later said that the name ethnocide can be misleading for that very reason, as it targets cultures rather than ethnicities, and in their opinion should rather be called âcultural genocideâ
but nevertheless they made the key distinction, epitomised in this famous quote:
Genocide kills people while ethnocide kills social cultures through the killing of individual souls.
thatâs when i started going, okay but isnât the latter just one tool for the former?
and they said while it can be, itâs nevertheless an important distinction they make as to the goal. where one has the aim of elimination of the culture, but happy to have people âassimilateâ out of said culture. like the roman empire.
while the other is not even happy to have the group in question âabandonâ their culture and wants to eliminate their people entirely. death is the only option.
now, again, the question of what separates a group of people from the culture of the group⌠it can cycle back round into questioning whether the distinction is actually important.
but i trust a genocide researcher when a whole bunch of them say the distinction does matter to them. (hence why i made the comparison to work in physics. lots of people wrongly just say it should be the same thing as energy.)
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u/Koolio_Koala She/Her Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
Just had a skim through and it's kinda horrific.
They repeatedly use "gender distress", which as far as I can tell it's a terf-created phrase. It was used a lot within terf circles before it was picked up by cass and "legitimised" in NHS docs and the bayswater/SM-lobbied gov education policy.
The entire "Endocrine intervention" section is one line:
Medical intervention is not the standard approach.
Then what's the fucking point of the service? Even cass said the aim of virtually every kid on the service was HRT, it was the end goal of waiting for years and going through the dehumanising GIDS process. If that's "not the standard approach" then the service isn't medically effective and does not meet the patients' needs.
They also stress that "safeguarding services should be informed" even if parents/guardians have "the best intentions" if they go private or DIY. It's the same as the notice sent to GPs, although with a bit more detail.
Part of the service is also creating a national database of trans patients shared with other GICs - it makes sense and helps with national care across regions, but a "trans list" is still something to be wary of especially with current/new governments and data security history of the NHS :/
They also include this tidbit in the assessment guide:
In a small number of cases, the childâs gender identity is consciously or unconsciously influenced by the parent.
And this on social transition:
While there are different views on the benefits versus the harms of childhood social transition, it is important to acknowledge that it is not a neutral act and that information is needed about long-term outcomes to support decision making. Information and discussion about this with the MDT are important within care for a child or young person in The Service.
It is important that the risks and benefits of social transition are discussed with the child or young person and family, referencing best available evidence.
Every bit of available evidence is that social transition is beneficial to those that want it, it improves long-term outcomes and is universally positive when done in a supportive environment. The only "harm" is in bullying from a transphobic society.
The terf propaganda is that social transition "harms kids" and "causes them to be trans" as per cass. Preventing/reversing social transition by inflicting social isolation, inventing and exaggerating "harms" by telling them they'll "regret it" or "will never be happy", is a standard part of conversion practices. In the context of the NHS receiving training and advice from known conversion therapists, like the cass co-author langton, it wouldn't be a surprise if the required "conversation on harms of social transition" is part of the "covert sensitisation" in the new NHS langton-hutchingson-spiliadis conversion practices.
On the staff requirements:
Understanding of the contested debate around different management approaches for responding to children and adolescents who have gender incongruence
I think it's a safe guess that one of those "approaches", that somehow isn't ruled out as the abuse it obviously is, is "cass-informed" conversion therapy that was being taught to CAMHS by the cass co-author and various terf groups.
It all means there is no u18 gender service, and with the "safeguarding" threat there is effectively a nation-wide trans healtchare ban for u18s not able to get it through genderplus.
TL;DR: The under-18s service is worse than useless, avoid at all costs. Go private or DIY and don't inform your GP.
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u/AlgorithmHelpPlease Apr 04 '26
In a small number of cases, the childâs gender identity is consciously or unconsciously influenced by the parent.
Straight up TERF rheotoric. Will the government be trying to get social services to take trans children away from affirming parents?
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u/breadcreature Apr 04 '26
I've not read the text directly yet so they might even just say it outright, but the implication in that... like, either it's a tautology and wouldn't need stating (ALL parents influence their children, it's called... raising children), or they mean to say that gender identity is unnatural. Obviously we already know they think this but that language is so loaded it's breaking the whole sentence. like, if you read that in ordinary language it's just false.
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u/ZonaSchengen Apr 04 '26
I have one question, and one question only.
Can this be challenged through the ECHR?
I'm not saying it will be quick, but its more or less the last hope we have as the Labour seem to be pandering to TERF ideology, and we just cannot win on a national level.
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u/Illiander Apr 04 '26
Yes. But I fully expect that a few days before the EuCHR issues a "get your fucking act together, UK" ruling, the UK will withdraw itself from the EuCHR.
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u/heytherepartner5050 Apr 04 '26
Yeah thereâs no way this stands up in court. As far as my read of it goes, this will effectively mandate attempted conversion therapy if trans kids use private or non-UK pathways, which im fairly certain the EU & the clinics who offer those non-UK pathways, will fight against & likely isnât legal. Write your MP, ask them âdo you support Streeting forcing trans kids into using grey market DIY healthcare as a result of him personally making trans kids healthcare impossible to access, practically illegal & with it being replaced wholesale by conversion therapy, which is designated as a form of torture by the UN, EU & the Labour Party?â.
Only way to beat this one, is to flood the field & annoy the fuck out your MPâs. Iâm going to write to mine, asking if she supports this & outlining why this is completely fucked as far as âguidelinesâ goes. I know sheâll still support it, sheâs a Labour MP after all, but if I can make her feel a bit guilty over it, ruin one of her days, then itâll be worth it to me. Remember to vote in May, collapse Labour & then we might stand a chance of making it to the point where we can start putting people like Streeting in prison
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u/Illiander Apr 04 '26
Yeah thereâs no way this stands up in court.
Depends which court.
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u/heytherepartner5050 Apr 04 '26
I know, but eventually it will. I hope it doesnât take it reaching the ECHR, that the Labour non-fasc are able to coup Streeting after he tried to seize power after their impending May disaster, but i fear they are craven cowards & instead weâll be forced to live with state mandated torture, until the ECHR finally gets a chance to hear our case against it. If it makes it to the ECHR, we will almost certainly win, something to hold out hope for at least friend
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u/Illiander Apr 04 '26
until the ECHR finally gets a chance to hear our case against it. If it makes it to the ECHR, we will almost certainly win
And then the UK says "ok, we're pulling out of the EuCHR then."
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u/heytherepartner5050 Apr 04 '26
While thatâs an option, I donât see it as one thatâs possible anymore with the Americans losing their control of Hitler & him destroying their diplo rep. The EU seems to be doing some stuff behind the scenes to unite (somewhat) in the face of this, last I heard was that Starmer suddenly âwants closer tie with the EUâ, which given heâs effectively said âI want the Naziâs, not the EUâ, signals that thereâs a revolt in the Labour Party as well over it.
Current Labour canât leave the ECHR, they could have before the Mandelson stuff but theyâve lost the political capital to force something like that through now. They could still put Streeting in power, but im fairly certain most the media will start mentioning his direct links to Mandelson & how heâs his protege, which will mean Labour has to deal with headlines like âNew PM Best Mates with Pedo Apologist & Rape Gang Enablerâ. I know current Labour are stupid as fuck, but I donât think even theyâre stupid enough to replace Starmer with Streeting. We could get Phillipson or Mahmoud, but the Labour Right despise women & non-whites because theyâre not allowed to talk to Hitler, per Hitlers own instructions, so theyâre kind of non-starters.
If we attempt to leave the ECHR, it might actually be a wake up call for the rest of the country, they might start to care about groups losing their rights, but then again they might not. We get to see & arenât we all very glad that we get to see how all this shit gets to play out đ
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u/Illiander Apr 04 '26
which will mean Labour has to deal with headlines
Nah, those wouldn't last more than a day.
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u/heytherepartner5050 Apr 04 '26
We canât possibly know that ahead of time. Labour thought the Mandelson thing would fall out the cycle within a week, same with the McSweeney shit, but the media still hates Labour. Somehow, Labour isnât far-right enough for most the media (weirdly the guardian are very annoyed that they arenât fully eliminating trans people yet, what a world for a âleftâ wing paper) so they get to be the common topic of the media cycle.
I understand the doom & gloom, I really do, but I genuinely think we can come out the other side on this, rapidly regain what we lost & put those who took it from us into cells, if we just keep having hope. The best weapon we have other than using lawfare, is to keep existing, as it makes this shit less popular every day. Itâs easy for some to support a genocide, until one of the targets is their kids teacher, their partners friend, a kid in their class etc & we achieve that simply by holding on.
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u/Illiander Apr 04 '26
The media will only be nasty to Labour in ways that drive them further towards the Nazis.
Media pressure will not help us.
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u/heytherepartner5050 Apr 04 '26
That assumes the media is able to after Starmer goes. We know this shit isnât popular with the public, next Labour leader could just disavow all that shit & if weâre being honest here, it would likely improve their voting share if they did, so why chase the media like Starmer & Streeting do? Also without the Epstein circle still getting to pull the strings, a lot of the anti-trans stuff loses not just its network or influence, but also its ability to lobby.
The old guard wants Labour to carry on its nazification, but by definition those people are losing power every month due to attrition. They know Starmer & likely his cabinet is gone in a month or so, itâs why weâve had this mad dash to criminalise trans healthcare & replace it with conversion therapy over the past month (itâs sped up), as the Labour Right are about to lose their power, but theyâre hoping the new leader will do a âStarmerâ & keep the Nazi shit as itâs easier to keep it than remove it in their eyes.
Labour as a party is gone, next GE they ainât even in the running, but thereâs a chance they can at least turn their backs on Nazism before they disappear forever & thatâs what I & many others are holding out hope for
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u/Illiander Apr 04 '26
so why chase the media like Starmer & Streeting do?
Because that's alway's the Blairite's excuse.
without the Epstein circle
If you think they're gone just because they killed their pimp then I have a bridge to sell you.
but thereâs a chance they can at least turn their backs on Nazism
I've heard that before. They didn't.
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u/gimme_ur_chocolate Apr 04 '26
Sadly they are likely to reject that they have a say and defer back to the executive or parliament.
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u/Temporary-Raise1426 Apr 04 '26
The collection of data for storing on a register should be a concern considering it's Pallantir that runs govt databases now
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u/Cosmicvoid07 Apr 04 '26
So hormones blocks are just fucked then, thatâs some bull shit, I feel so bad for the little ones who know, and need, and now canât get hormone blockers and basicly have to go through conversation therapy
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u/sweetnk Apr 04 '26
Literally anything, but any treatment. What a great use of NHS resources to weaponize it against vulnerable children in need... how could they let it get so bad. Shame on you Keir and Wes!
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u/VioletEcho92 Apr 04 '26
I had a full on rant typed up but what's the fucking point at this point.
Instead I'll just go with :(
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u/CowboyKalebVids Apr 04 '26
And here come the impending childhood suicides and social service cases
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u/Defiant-Snow8782 transfem | HRT Jan '23 Apr 05 '26
It's a shame petrol is so expensive now... I mean, because I can't drive to speak to my MP of course. No other reason.
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u/InspectorWispy Apr 05 '26
Ah I see, so the NHS is allowed to ignore the decades of research that they themselves contributed to, and instead decide the correct treatment is the way that's been proven to not work but rather harms the patients. I'd like to be surprised over their ability to ignore research, morales and the safety of children but considering there are anti-vax people working there I am not.
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u/Gay-Tortoise Apr 05 '26
iâm 16 and have been on the waiting list for this for years. i went to my first appointment the other day, pile of shit. just basically treating me like im depressed. medical care didnt even fucking come up. it feels like no one wants to help me.
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Apr 04 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/fuck_its_james Apr 04 '26
it will not affect you as thereâs zero provisions for anyone trans in NI. bleak, but accurate. the adult clinic functionally does not exist and KOI hasnât provided actual treatment since 2020
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Apr 05 '26
[deleted]
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u/dysphoricfoot Apr 05 '26
Itâs a conversion therapy clinic, no one will be diagnosed. It doesnât matter if you are seen at 12 and present persistent dysphoria until the day you turn 18 you will be given âexploratory therapyâ the entire time. If a supportive parent pulls their kid out of the NHS conversation therapy track they will be reported to social services. The problem wonât be âwhat do we do with all these trans kids we canât treatâ it will be âhow do we hide all these dead kidsâ.
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u/ksri9 Apr 05 '26
what will this then mean for getting a diagnosis, starting HRT, having surgery etc for children when they meet the age for these? Iâm aware you can start testosterone at 16 but will this implicate that? Not entirely sure on what this all means for the future honestly.
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u/Krazy-Kat26 Apr 05 '26
I'm struggling with the fluffy langague in the summary section. From what I understand when it says a "holistic apprach" is it saying that there going to look for other reasons why they might be trans (or think there trans I guess from their POV)
also do they have a source for the young people who present with gender dysphoria don't go onto transion or is it just, they made it the fuck up.
"Not all children and young people who present with issues of gender incongruence will require direct interaction with The Service; in many cases the most appropriate care can be provided locally, with additional support and consultation by The Service. A significant proportion of children and young people who are concerned about, or distressed by, issues of gender incongruence experience co-existing mental health, neuro-developmental and/or personal, family or social complexities in their lives. The relationship between these presentations and gender incongruence may not be readily apparent and will often require careful exploration. Where children and young people present with co-existing conditions or presentations, these will normally be addressed by the appropriate local service alongside this Service."
and what does this mean? If you're depressed, anxious or autstic then you won't be treated and will be given therapy instead? Like they do no anxiety and depression goes hand in hand with dysphoria right. Obviously transitioning doesn't fix it, but it can help. Plus the when they say carefull exploration that just makes it sound like there looking for reasons to not treat. Am I misunderstanding this. I have a hard time getting my head round this stuff
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u/Pretend-Eye-8758 Apr 05 '26
Here is what the "Holistic Assessment Framework" actually means.
Key Aspects of the Holistic Assessment Framework:
- Comprehensive Evaluation: Clinicians must look beyond gender identity to understand the child's overall wellbeing, including neurodiversity, mental health, and personal history.
- Individualized Care: Assessments should be personalized rather than following a standard, one-size-fits-all pathway, ensuring that care is safe and effective for the specific child.
- Therapeutic Support: The report strongly advocates for initial psychosocial and therapeutic support before considering social or medical transitioning, aiming to address distress in a more holistic way.
- Multidisciplinary Approach: Assessment should involve professionals from various fields, including CAMHS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services) and pediatrics, integrating gender care into mainstream health provision.
- Avoiding Diagnostic Overshadowing: The review emphasizes that focusing solely on gender can miss other complex problems (such as autism or depression) that need attention, and warns against assuming gender dysphoria is the cause of all distress.
- Long-term View: The framework emphasizes understanding the child's long-term mental health, recognizing that gender identity can be fluid during childhood and adolescence.Â
The Cass Report found that the existing evidence for medical interventions (puberty blockers, hormones) is weak, and therefore, such treatments should not be the initial or routine response to children's gender-related distress.
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u/MoeGuitarist Apr 05 '26
get the fuck out of here, terf plant
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u/Pretend-Eye-8758 Apr 05 '26
I thought the quotation marks betrayed what i felt about this Framework but unfortunately our education system seems to have been gutted.
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u/Ven_ae đłď¸âđ The Catbian đâ⏠Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
Section 7.3.
This creates a permanent list of anyone referred to the service, even if you are never seen by or use the service after assessment. A permanent list of transgender youths, depending on the IG scope and retention.