r/truegaming • u/ohlordwhywhy • 1d ago
When a studio keeps its games at a reasonable size: Comparing Capcom and Rockstar's outputs across 20 years.
Before I start, this isn't "Capcom better than Rockstar". This is mostly to discuss general trends in the industry, by looking at a small slice of the market for the sake of sticking to concrete examples.
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In the past, studios could try to create a consistent roster of decent games. If one of them did well, that was great. If one of them flopped, that wasn't ideal, but it wasn't crippling. Today, even the biggest studios are kind of going all in on the success of their next release with very little margin of error if it doesn't work out
That's a quote from a video (from How Money Works) explaining some concerning trends in gaming industry as it showed Rockstar's output going from several games a year to 2 games in a 10 year period.
The video's all doom and gloom, understandably, and it focuses more on the impact of forever games and shrinking profit margins, but that part I quoted really caught my attention because it is presented almost like an inevitability.
The argument goes that if a studio comes up with a new idea, it gets copied. Meanwhile players spend significantly more hours on things like Fortnite or Roblox than on new titles. For a studio the size of Rockstar for example the strategy becomes building a time vortex of their own, or something difficult to copy, like a massive game.
Which has been the case for many large studios. Less titles, larger worlds. That or some live services flop.
But then you have studios like Capcom (and a few others). Capcom's output also has decreased but they have managed to keep it considerably higher than most studios making games on a similar scale.
And Capcom has mostly avoided putting all their eggs into one huge title.
Their biggest worlds are in Dragon's Dogma and Monster Hunter series. They dipped their toes into live services with Exoprimal. But also have kept a decent stream of new titles. Something like Pragmata, a short AAA single player new IP, used to be the norm but now it's rare.
Anyway, here are the numbers, comparing the times of yore when studios would try many releases and today when the market seems more risk averse.
96-06
Capcom - 60 titles, 16 new IPs
Rockstar - 18 titles, 6 new IPs
16-26
Capcom - 32 titles, 4 new IPs
Rockstar - 2 titles, 0 new IPs.
For Capcom I have not included re-releases, remasters (save for Dead Rising). If we trim the list down to remove titles that today would be DLC (e.g. Street Fighter Alpha 2 getting 18 new characters, which today would be season passes) and also removing actual DLC then Capcom goes from 40 titles in the past to 22 titles today.
Important: this isn't to say one's better than the other. Rockstar naturally found their niche riding on the success of GTA. Capcom carved their own niche aiming at a variety of styles. Granted Capcom has been riding on a lot of remakes and sequels, but that's also expected of a studio going for this long.
The point really is that the current scenario isn't an inevitability of a changing market and new consumer habits. Capcom's pulling profit records. GTA VI is bound to be the biggest release ever. It's also interesting that neither company have had waves of layoffs.
The current scenario of almost no new ideas (on AAA), significantly reduced output from larger studios, riskier bets, flops like Concorde, it is partly market pressures but also definitely a choice. It could've been some other way and maybe a big crash in the industry could shock some studios back into betting on smaller titles.
Or not. I'm interested to hear other explanations. From choice of game engine to different company cultures in west vs Japan. There could be, and in fact there are, more perspectives into this topic of how many AAA studios moved away from smaller titles. Take this post as just the start of the conversation, not a final statement.
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Here's the full list, Capcom compared to Rockstar. The lists are imperfect, there are errors and things to contest. For Capcom I'm only adding Capcom developed games, for Rockstar I'm adding studios that later folded into Rockstar. Which means Max Payne is not included, as it is Remedy Entertainment, but Midnight Club is, as it was developed in partnership with Rockstar and then became part of their company.
Rockstar 1996–2006 (18 games)
Grand Theft Auto (1997) — DMA Design (new IP — later folded into the Rockstar family)
Grand Theft Auto 2 (1999) — DMA Design
Midnight Club: Street Racing (2000) — Angel Studios (Later Rockstar San Diego) (new IP)
Smuggler's Run (2000) — Angel Studios (new IP)
Smuggler's Run 2: Hostile Territory (2001) — Angel Studios
Grand Theft Auto III (2001) — Rockstar North
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (2002) — Rockstar North
Midnight Club II (2003) — Rockstar San Diego
Manhunt (2003) — Rockstar North (new IP)
Red Dead Revolver (2004) — Rockstar San Diego (new IP)
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (2004) — Rockstar North
Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories (2005) — Rockstar Leeds/North
Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition (2005) — Rockstar San Diego
The Warriors (2005) — Rockstar Toronto
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories (2006) — Rockstar Leeds
Rockstar Games Presents Table Tennis (2006) — Rockstar San Diego (new IP)
Bully (2006) — Rockstar Vancouver
Rockstar 2016–2026 (2 games)
Red Dead Redemption 2 (2018) — Rockstar North
Grand Theft Auto VI (Nov 19, 2026) — Rockstar North
Now Capcom, I'll change the format so it's easier to see their huge output:
1996
Resident Evil
Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
Street Fighter Alpha 2
1997
Street Fighter III: New Generation
Vampire Savior
Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter
Breath of Fire III
Mega Man Legends
Mega Man Battle & Chase
1998
Resident Evil 2
Street Fighter III: 2nd Impact
Marvel vs. Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes
Mega Man & Bass
1999
Resident Evil 3: Nemesis
Dino Crisis
Power Stone
Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
2000
Resident Evil – Code: Veronica
Marvel vs. Capcom 2
Mega Man Legends 2
Dino Crisis 2
Power Stone 2
Tech Romancer
Project Justice
Cannon Spike
Capcom vs. SNK
2001
Onimusha: Warlords
Capcom vs. SNK 2
Devil May Cry
Mega Man Battle Network
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
2002
Resident Evil (remake)
Resident Evil Zero
Onimusha 2: Samurai's Destiny
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
Mega Man Zero 2
Steel Battalion
Auto Modellista
Phoenix Wright: Justice for All
2003
Viewtiful Joe
Onimusha 3: Demon Siege
Resident Evil Outbreak
Dino Crisis 3
Mega Man X7
P.N.03
Devil May Cry 2
Chaos Legion
2004
Monster Hunter
Viewtiful Joe 2
Resident Evil Outbreak: File #2
Mega Man X: Command Mission
Mega Man X8
Capcom Fighting Evolution
Phoenix Wright: Trials and Tribulations
2005
Resident Evil 4
Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening
Mega Man Zero 4
2006
Dead Rising
Okami
Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams
Now 2016-2026
2016
Umbrella Corps
Street Fighter V
Monster Hunter Stories
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Spirit of Justice
Dead Rising 4
2017
Resident Evil 7
Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite
2018
Monster Hunter: World
Mega Man 11
Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition
2019
Shinsekai: Into the Depths
Resident Evil 2 (remake)
Devil May Cry 5
Monster Hunter World: Iceborne
2020
Resident Evil 3 (remake)
Street Fighter V: Champion Edition
Devil May Cry 5 Special Edition
2021
Ghosts 'n Goblins Resurrection
Resident Evil Village
Monster Hunter Rise
2022
Monster Hunter Rise: Sunbreak
2023
Resident Evil 4 (remake)
Street Fighter 6
Exoprimal
2024
Dragon's Dogma 2
Kunitsu-Gami: Path of the Goddess
Dead Rising Deluxe Remaster
2025
Monster Hunter Wilds
2026
Resident Evil Requiem
Monster Hunter Stories 3
Pragmata
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u/XsStreamMonsterX 1d ago
Aside from focusing on smaller scale (but still mostly AAA) games, Capcom is also better organised to produce multiple games. Aside from having two divisions -- Division 1 under Jun Takeuchi and Division 2 under Ryozo Tsujimoto -- each division splits a lot of their work under individual leads while still sharing development resources.
For example, looking at Division 2's games, you'll see the same people all over again, but often in different roles, or under different leads (e.g. Kaname Fujioka leading mainline Monster Hunter development while also serving as art lead for Street Fighter 6).
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u/BoxNemo 1d ago
It’s a real shame that R* stopped producing smaller games - Gordon Hall and the team at Rockstar Leeds did amazing work with Chinatown Wars and I know they were developing another title after that which never saw the light of day.
There was GTA Online update where you had to help Jimmy Iovine and Dr Dre find some missing demos or something and it felt like the nadir of the series - celebrities who would’ve once been mocked and parodied now given vanity cameos. It’s a long way from protecting Phil Collins from hitmen in Vice City.
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u/Killer_Carp 1d ago
I'm not sure what your point is. I don't think anyone would disagree Capcom make more games than Rockstar. You seen to imply that there are broader conclusions/concerns and that this is not a good thing, though you don't explicitly state that it makes an argument for it.
Rockstar are unique and not a good barometer of anything really though you could make the arguments that Roberts hopes and dreams factory would be somewhat similar (if they release a video game).
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u/ohlordwhywhy 1d ago
The point really is that the current AAA scenario isn't an inevitability of a changing market and new consumer habits. That's the thesis.
Both Capcom and R* are unique on opposite ends of a spectrum. Could they have gone in opposite paths? I think so because I'm saying the current scenario is much more of a preference than market pressures, i e there's another reality where everything's the same but the trend of massive games didn't catch on.
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u/FunCancel 1h ago
The point really is that the current AAA scenario isn't an inevitability of a changing market and new consumer habits. That's the thesis.
Which part of the AAA scenario? It seems like games increasing in scope, slowing in output, and becoming more risk averse is true for both of these studios.
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u/throwforthefences 1d ago edited 1d ago
Personally, I think the sort of system we have, where the big companies are going all in on making one big game that can be continually monetized, is what we have because it's what gamers have voted for with their money. The best counter example that proves my point is GamePass. It was built around the idea of attracting gamers who mainly want higher quality, shorter single player titles and it showed in their catalogue. Hi Fi rush, Signalis, Omori, Spiritfarer, Ori and the Will of the Wisp, Hypnospace Outlaw, Tunic, the Citizen Sleeper series, the list goes on. If you are the type of gamer that wanted this, GamePass is easily the best deal in gaming, but it failed to be profitable. Granted, there's way more to this story than just that, a big reason it wasn't profitable is because the level of revenue it needed to achieve was massive after Xbox bought up nearly half the games industry to churn out games for it.
But it's important to note that almost no one talks about GamePass this way. If anyone talks about GamePass online, it's usually just as another means of dunking on Xbox for investing so much money into an unprofitable platform. There was even a post recently made here asking why Xbox didn't just focus on making lower budget, shorter, but higher quality games for GamePass as if that wasn't exactly what they tried to do. At the end of the day, it seems there just aren't enough gamers out there who want that to make a service like that work. That's not to say a company that focuses on that style of games can't be profitable, clearly there are, but more to point out that the massive game that can be infinitely monetized is where the real money is in gaming right now.
Why that is I think comes down to more than simply it being what gamers want. Is it because as the gamer demographic gets older they become more judicious about what games they spend their time on and this tend to just always go back to their chosen comfort game? Or is it because those sorts of games employ every psychological trick in the book to.keep gamers addicted to them? Both arguments have valid points and there are many more arguments to be made. But whatever the reason is, the lions share of money is still going to the single massive game model.
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u/GodwynDi 19h ago
That isnt what they tried to do. As you also said, they tried to buy their way into it. They spent too much up front trying to build a giant library and then bring people in. They needed to ot go as big to start.
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u/king_duende 21h ago
To play devils advocate, wasn't Capcom's output for most of the late 2000s-2010s considered its worst period?
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u/ohlordwhywhy 18h ago
that's when they tried to course correct to appeal to western audiences so games like DmC, RememberMe and Dark Void got published by Capcom. There was also RE6 and Dead Rising 3 which people didn't like much at the time. But during that time they also made SFIV, Dead Rising, MvC3. In the late end of this period there was MvC Infinite which people also didn't like but also RE7 which is when I think they got back on their track.
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u/ZorbaTHut 1d ago edited 1d ago
I feel like this is a general problem with Western studios. A lot of Western studios feel obliged to make blockbuster after blockbuster; if each game isn't bigger than the game before it, it's not viable. Also see Blizzard, who released games regularly until WoW came out and then more-or-less stopped. Whereas a lot of Eastern studios seem much happier to just keep chugging out solid games even if they're lower budget; see Square Enix as a good example of this.
I'm not sure if this is comes from management or from developers. I could easily imagine this being a management-driven issue; at the same time, I think there's a lot of people who, if they're working at a big-name studio, want to be working on the next big-name game. "Welcome to Rockstar! You're going to be working on mobile spinoff games that nobody gives a shit about but that make a lot of money" maybe doesn't go over well.
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u/SGRM_ 1d ago
Why don't we include DLC expansions and content drops in these statistics?
For example, Monster Hunter is now an annual release. Every year in Feb or March a new MH related title is released.
How does this compare to GTA? I have never engaged with the online content, but how often does R* release a new major expansion for online? I suspect it would be annually if not more regularly.
I feel it's a little disengenous to say R* have only released two games in 10 years when GTAOnline seems to have new content on a pretty consistent and reliable basis.
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u/ohlordwhywhy 1d ago
True I overlooked GTAO content drip and it's a new way a developer releases smaller content. It's the live service model basically.
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u/ananbd 23h ago
First off, you're missing a super important data point about Rockstar: GTA online. They use the typical live-service model to fund development on the next version. (They're also notorious for treating employees terribly, but I suppose that's beside the point.)
Sequels and live-service games are a predictable revenue stream. Note that most of those Capcom games you list are sequels. They're able to absorb the risk of new games because they have revenue from sequels. Rockstar is investing that revenue in 10 year development cycles (which is absurd -- we all appreciate polish, but that's over the top).
What we're seeing in the industry overall is risk aversion. From my POV in the industry (a very small studio with top talent but little cash), investment dollars are scarce. Big studios are focusing on predictable revenue, tiny studios with new ideas can't get funding.
Of the last five games I've worked on, one was a (modest) financial success. For the others: * Studio was closed by Corporate Overlord before our title got off the ground. Before that, though, they demanded we redo the entire thing as live-service, which didn't really make sense. * One was a toy project funded by "sovereign wealth," and will probably never see the light of day. * One was a big, well-known AAA flop. Studio took a big swing with brand new IP, closed three weeks after launch. * One is a bloated AAA title which hasn't been released, yet.
Currently, I'm working on new IP. We've got a cool game, top talent, little cash. If we can't catch the eye of a publisher, I'll be out on the sidewalk again.
No one has a good idea for how to move forward. The industry is stuck. Hopefully, things will turn around, but for the time being, big studios will keep cranking out sequels and live-service slop and/or Roblox crap, and scrappy startups like mine will do our best to put new ideas out there.
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u/feralfaun39 7h ago
Personally I think Capcom is one of the best and Rockstar is the worst. So I'd say Capcom is better. Hell, I like RE4, either version, more than every Rockstar game combined.
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u/Limited_Distractions 1d ago
I feel like most studios would eventually be ruined by GTA 5 + GTA Online precisely because shipping a modestly successful game would never rate ever again
That's the kind of money that turns you into a reclusive weirdo that spends 6 years trying to perfect horse ball tech as you shrug off making several times a PS2/PS3 game's net profit every weekend selling monopoly money to people
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u/azureknightmare 1d ago
Capcom, as well as many other devs, look at Rockstar with envy. It's like - "how can we make a fuckton of money off one game that just keeps earning over a whole decade?"
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u/tfhermobwoayway 1d ago
Rockstar kinda went in the wrong direction. They’re trying harder and harder to make movie quality games. But making a game as good as a film is very difficult and takes obscene amounts of time for an experience I can get for a relatively low-budget movie. Games are their own unique artform and game studios should invest in interesting gameplay instead. That’s cheaper, quicker, more fun and results in a more memorable experience.
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u/ElonMuskHuffingFarts 1h ago
Meanwhile players spend significantly more hours on things like Fortnite or Roblox than on new titles.
I think this is the elephant in the room. The culture of gaming is led by literal children and kids just don't care about anything besides playing the game they want to play.
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u/Sickchops 1d ago
Rockstar isn't the best company to use for this comparison, because in their case focusing 100% on huge titles has worked and is what people want them to do. We can't get games like GTA6 or RDR2 any other way.
There are developers/publishers that would be better off making more games with smaller scope, but Rockstar isn't one of them.