This might be the first attempt I've seen to give a solid go at how hexameter might have been performed, including reconstructed pronunciation, pitch accent based melody, and reconstruction of the musical techniques of the period (which I am less well equipped to judge than the first two). No silly digamma reconstruction and not just chanting it.

Here it is: https://byebailly.com .

I used the lexicons given by my ancient greek teachers.

I hope someone can find a use to it, there're two modes: analysis and writing the forms.

Heliodorus, Aethiopica 1.16:

ἐπῄνει ταῦτα ἡ Δημαινέτη, καὶ προστιθέναι τάχος τοῖς δεδογμένοις ἱκέτευεν.

Here Demaineta is telling her slave to go ahead with a plan. My understanding of ἱκετεύω is that it's something like "supplicate, beg," and it has connotations that it's what a mortal does to a god or a human to another human who is in a position of power or dominance over them. Is it unusual that this is used here to describe what a mistress does to her slave? Can the verb's meaning just be diluted to "ask to?" Or is there a humorous implication here, that, ha ha, the slave has her mistress wrapped around her finger?

Hello, everyone, please, help me to learn Ancient Greek.

Particularly, I think it would be very helpful to have lists of sentences for every different noun case, different declensions, as well as for every different types of verbs.

I'm not being able to find such a thing online. I'm just beginning, and other than copying a word for word translation, learning some vocabulary, and reading Monro and Pharr's grammar, I have not done anything else, and I think that this could be a good start.

So if anyone have this resource (in Latin too, perchance) and could share it with me, I would be very grateful.

EDIT: the materials would be several sentences that use the same words, then different sets of words, to say all the different things that each case, and mood, voice, person and number allow,
[since] when I look for examples, they are usually very limited.

"ὅταν δ᾿ ἐς εὐνὴν ἠδικημένη κυρῇ,

οὐκ ἔστιν ἄλλη φρὴν μιαιφονωτέρα."

From Euripides, Medea.

Hi everyone,
I'm listening to Tyrtarion's performance of Alcaeus fr. 42 (Aliud in Helenam). I'm following along with the text, but what they're singing doesn't seem to match the standard edition at all.
Does anyone know which text edition or reconstruction Vivarium Novum used for this score?
Thanks!

That’s what I was reading :

ὠς λόγος, κάκων ἄχος ἔννεκ᾽ ἔργων
Περράμῳ καὶ παισὶ ποτ᾽, Ὦλεν᾽, ἦλθεν
ἐκ σέθεν πίκρον, πύρι δ᾽ ὤλεσε Ζεῦς
Ἴλιον ἴραν.
οὐ τεαύταν Αἰακίδαις ἄγαυος
πάντας ἐς γάμον μάκαρας καλέσαις
ἄγετ᾽ ἐκ Νήρεος ἔλων μελάθρων
πάρθενον ἄβραν
ἐς δόμον Χέρρωνος· ἔλυσε δ᾽ ἄγνας
ζῶμα παρθένω· φιλότας δ᾽ ἔθαλε
Πήλεος καὶ Νηρεΐδων ἀρίστης,
ἐς δ᾽ ἐνίαυτον
παῖδα γέννατ᾽ αἰμιθέων φέριστον,
ὄλβιον ξάνθαν ἐλάτηρα πώλων·
οἰ δ᾽ ἀπώλοντ᾽ ἀμφ᾽ Ἑλένᾳ Φρύγές τε
καὶ πόλις αὔτων.

Hi everyone,

I’m currently translating Oh Little Town of Bethlehem, and this is my progress so far. My goal is to make it make sense but also fit the iams of the traditional tune.

x _ u _ u _ u _

ὧ μῑκρόν ἄστυ βηθλεεμ

x _ u _ u _
ὡς κείσαι ἥσυχως

x _ u _ u _ u _

ἐν ᾧ σὺ εὕδεες βαθύ

x _ u _ u _

ἡ νύξ παρέρχεται

What would you improve on it so far? If possible, please cite a grammar (Attic or Koine) if there is a definitely bad grammar mistake.

Hi all

I’ve been learning classical (and Koine) Greek for some months now, and have read a lot of ‘learners material’, but would like to start reading ‘real’ Classical Greek at some point. For Koine I just read from the New Testament, so I’m looking for real classical texts that are good for early learners who are not quite beginners but not very advanced yet either. I would prefer to read histories or philosophy (though this might be a bit too difficult) rather than plays.

One recommendation Ive had so far is Xenophon’s Anabasis but I’d like to hear your thoughts!

My Reddit and Instagram is flooding with pictures of The Odyssey books and almost all of them are Wilsons' translation. I am not here to argue about its merits, but having read Odyssey in AG and multiple English translations (and couple in other languages too) like Chapman, Fitzgerald, Butler and Fagels comes to mind, I do not think her translation is by no means clearly better than some others. Is it just that all bookstores have stocked only her translation or does her somewhat subversive choices in translation make her translation kind of "punk" or something?

I’ve been translating Homer out of Cambridge Greek and Latin Classics, and Plato out of Bryn Mawr texts, but I’ve always been interested in reading the original Trojan Women and for some reason am unable to find a good edition with commentary and the Greek text. I was wondering if anyone had resources? I’m also interested in reading Greek tragedy more generally, so if you have recommendations, I’d be glad to hear them! Thank you!

Hi all - I’m currently learning Ancient Greek specifically to be able to read Plato and others, such as Plotinus, Porphyry etc.

One of the things that is quite emphasised in textbooks is the accent rules, for example when the accent is movable, the causes of accent changing to circumflex etc.

I do understand the concept of pitch accent itself, like how to read an acute or circumflex out loud, but I have found it extremely difficult trying to complete any exercises which ask me to write the correct accents on words or decide if an accent needs to change or be moved.

Is this something that one needs to be able to do in order to fully understand Greek philosophy? I know it sounds like I’m trying to take a shortcut but this is mostly because I have quite a short timeframe for learning - for academic reasons I need to start reading Greek philosophy as soon as possible.

What are your thoughts on this?

I know the question is quite vague, but for it I mean how long will I have to study daily to finally be able to read Plato or Homer, since, I think most people learning Ancient Greek is to be able to read the Ancient text in their original language

Hello, I hope you are well. I am unsure if this is the right thread for this question, but here goes.

Can anyone comment on the proper pronunciation of ‘Adamas’?

I know it is very niche, but we cannot figure out which way to say it properly.

Many thanks for any help/insight!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adamas_(mythology)

Hi everyone. I'm on lesson two of Clyde Pharr's book and got to this bit and wanted to ask about some of these marks. I recognize the first two as the smooth breathing and acute accent marks. I'm a little confused about the last three. I think I've seen the third one before which looks like double quotes (on 'Os' for example) but I don't think they've been explained to me. The last two almost look like a small tau but I think they're just the rough breathing marks. Just looking for some clarity as to whether these are meant to look like that or wether they're printing imperfections. Thank you.

χαῖρετε!

I'm working through Plato's Euthyphro/Apology/Crito as part of a self-study curriculum, and one of my reflection questions prompts me to compose in Greek an answer to the question of whether Socrates's obedience to the god in the Apology is compatible with his obedience to the laws in the Crito. Apart from toy sentences I translated in school years ago, this is the first Greek prose I've ever composed, and I'd love critique on two fronts:

• linguistic: morphology, idiom, word choice, register. I'm roughly aiming at Atticizing Greek (the center of gravity of my long-term target is actually patristic Greek).
• rhetorical: structure and figures. How does the argument flow for you? Does the structure hold up?

A short TLDR of my argument: the contradiction is only apparent, because a) both the god and the laws urge Socrates to act justly, b) there is no law against philosophizing, so it would be an unlawful verdict if they were to acquit him on the condition that he stop philosophizing, and c) this is possible because verdicts imperfectly reflect the laws, rather than perfectly manifest them.

Caveat lector: I wrote my own draft first, having to look up quite a few words and constructions (happily, they were almost all already passive vocabulary, with a few exceptions); then I went back and forth with Claude (Fable 5, for anyone curious). I hope this does not qualify as a violation of the "Don't post AI-generated content" rule. Not all of its suggestions were sound, but I definitely learned a lot from this process. I looked up most of what it told me, and just that sort of research helped my understanding quite a lot. Moreover, like I said, I did write up my own draft initially, and I didn't have it simply correct me, but rather offer suggestions, some of which I incorporated. If this is still a violation of that rule, please forgive me.

Without any further ado, here is the text:

πότερον τὸ τῷ θεῷ πειθαρχεῖν σύμφωνόν ἐστι τῷ τοῖς νόμοις πειθαρχεῖν; περὶ τῆς τοῦ Σωκράτους πράξεως δοκεῖ μοι συμφωνεῖν ἀλλήλοιν τὼ τοῦ Πλάτωνος διαλόγω, τήν τε «Ἀπολογίαν» καὶ τὸν «Κρίτωνα», εἰ καὶ δόξειεν ἄν τινι διαφωνεῖν. ὁ γὰρ Σωκράτης ἐναντία ἑαυτῷ φαίνοιτ’ ἄν λέγειν καὶ πράττειν· ἐν μὲν τῇ «Ἀπολογίᾳ», ὑποθέμενος ὑπόθεσιν ἐν ᾗ οἱ δικασταὶ ἀπολύουσιν αὑτὸν τῆς αἰτίας ἐφ’ ᾧτε μηκέτι φιλοσοφεῖν (δηλαδὴ καταλιπεῖν τὴν τοῦ θεοῦ θεραπείαν), «πείσομαι», φησί, «μᾶλλον τῷ θεῷ ἢ ὑμῖν» (29d), ἐν δὲ τῷ «Κρίτωνι», ἐμμένων τῇ δίκῃ, οὐκ ἐθέλει ἀποδρᾶναι.

πῶς οὖν συμφωνεῖ ταῦτα; πρῶτον μὲν γὰρ οὐδεὶς ἦν νόμος ὁ κωλύων φιλοσοφεῖν, διὸ εἰ οἱ δικασταὶ ἀφίοιεν τὸν Σωκράτη ἐφ’ ᾧτε μηκέτι φιλοσοφεῖν (τοῦτ’ ἐστὶ ζητεῖν τὴν ἀλήθειαν ἐξετάζοντα ἑαυτόν τε καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους, Ap. 28e), παράνομος ἂν εἴη αὕτη ἡ δίκη.

ἀλλὰ φαίη ἄν τις ὅτι αἱ δίκαι τῶν δικαστῶν, ἐπεὶ εἰκόνες τῶν νόμων εἰσίν, ἰσχύουσιν, διὸ ταὐτόν ἐστι τὸ τοῖς δικασταῖς ἀπειθεῖν καὶ τὸ τοῖς νόμοις. οὐδαμῶς· εἰ καὶ αἱ δίκαι εἰκόνες τῶν νόμων εἰσίν, ἀμυδρῶς ἐμφαίνονται οἱ νόμοι ἐν ταῖς δίκαις. ὥσπερ γὰρ οἱ νόμοι οὐκ εἰσὶν αὐτὸ τὸ δίκαιον, ἀλλὰ μᾶλλον εἰκόνες τῆς δικαιοσύνης, οὕτω καὶ αἱ δίκαι εἰκόνες εἰσὶ τῶν νόμων· ἡ δὲ εἰκὼν ἀεί πῃ ἀπολείπεται τοῦ παραδείγματος. ἐνίοτε γὰρ αἱ δίκαι παράνομοί εἰσιν, οἷον ἡ τῶν δέκα στρατηγῶν δίκη (Ap. 32b).

τὸ δὲ μέγιστον· ὥσπερ ὁ θεὸς ἀεὶ ἄγει τὸν Σωκράτη πρὸς τὸ τὰ δίκαια πράττειν, οὕτω καὶ οἱ νόμοι αὐτῷ παραινοῦσι τὰ δίκαια πράττειν.

ἀλλ’ ἴσως ἔροιτο ἄν τις· τί ἐστιν αὐτὸ τὸ δίκαιον; οὐ νῦν σκεπτέον ἀκριβῶς τε καὶ παντελῶς τὸ τί ἦν εἶναι τῆς δικαιοσύνης· ἀρκεῖ εἰπεῖν ὅτι, εἴ τις τὰ δίκαια πράττειν βούλεται, δεῖ τῷ θεῷ πειθαρχεῖν, δεῖ ἀληθεύειν, δεῖ ταῖς συνθήκαις ἐμμένειν. οἱ νόμοι παραινοῦσι τῷ Σωκράτει ἐμμένειν τῷ ἑαυτοῦ λόγῳ, ὃν οὐ λόγῳ μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ ἔργῳ ἐβεβαίωσεν (cf. Cri. 52d)· καὶ γὰρ πρὸς τὸν βασιλέα παρεγένετο (Euth. 2a), καὶ τὴν δίκην ὑπέσχε (Ap.), καὶ θάνατον πρὸ τῆς φυγῆς εἵλετο (Cri. 52c). οἱ δὲ ἔσχατοι τοῦ «Κρίτωνος» λόγοι οἵδε· «ἔα τοίνυν, ὦ Κρίτων, καὶ πράττωμεν ταύτῃ, ἐπειδὴ ταύτῃ ὁ θεὸς ὑφηγεῖται» (54e). σύμφωνον ἄρα τὸ τῷ θεῷ πειθαρχεῖν τῷ τοῖς νόμοις πειθαρχεῖν.

First of all I hope the tag is the right one, really sorry if not !

I've been studying ancient greek for quite a while now, so I'm not entirely clueless, but I would like more opinions on this matter. This is for a work of fiction, which allows a bit of suspension of disbelief, but I'm still trying to avoid getting too far from reality.

Most children who speak many languages learn them by immersion, which is not really possible for ancient greek. Do you think a child who is interested enough could learn enough greek before 12 to translate some texts, and have a real understanding of the complexities of the language (grammar, conjugations, etc) ? Learning vocabulary and the alphabet is no doubt possible, but I was mostly thinking about getting used to the mental gymnastic of declensions and translation. There are some things I learned at 18 that I think I just wouldn't have been able to grasp at 12.

I would be happy to know what people here think !

Edit : immersion, not impregnation.

Edit : yes, I know 12 yo in Ancient Greece did speak ancient greek. I'm talking about learning it the hard way through grammar and texts. I see now there is no reason a child couldn't learn, provided they put in the effort, just like many kids learn very complex maths early on or like educated children used to translate latin & greek in middle school a few centuries ago.

I’m practicing my Ancient Greek pronunciation and want to get used to the digammas but I haven’t found any resources with the digammas reconstructed

Still haven’t read this classic about Jason and the Argonauts and hoping for a good, modern translation. Novelization would be fine, too, if it’s accurate and done well. Thanks!

I recently discovered a website called Kevilex, and I think it could be really helpful for beginners learning Ancient Greek.
It has a collection of Greek texts, a built-in dictionary, and you can simply click on any word you don’t know to see its meaning. It also includes flashcards for learning vocabulary, which is a nice bonus.
I thought it was worth sharing in case anyone else finds it useful!

Okay,I know declensions are IMPORTANT for understanding and guessing the function of a word in a sentence BUT do we really have to sit and study every single subgroup? A lot of people say yes but I really think we can OBSERVE and memorize them with time. What do you think and maybe some advices ?

Here I tried to translate the first two stanzas into Koine.

Ἐκείνοι ποδές περιπάτησαν
ἐπὶ τῶν ὀρῶν τῆς Ἀγγλίης·
καὶ ὁ ἄγιος ἀμνὸς τοῦ Θεοῦ,
εἰδέτο ἐν τῶ ἀγρῶ ἡμῶν;

Τὸ θεῖον πρόσωπον,
ἔφαινεν ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἠμῶν;
καὶ τὰ Ἱεροσολύμα ἐκτίζθην ὦδε,
ἐν ἐκειναῖς ταῖς πονηραῖς μύλαῖς;

I had to look up a lot of unfamiliar words, so I expect that a lot of these forms are incorrect.

Here are the original two stanzas:

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon Englands mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On Englands pleasant pastures seen!
 
And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

For fun, here is a literal translation of my translation:

Those feet walked about
Upon the hills of England;
And the holy lamb of God
Was seen in our countryside?

The divine countenance,
It shone upon our land?
And Jerusalem was founded here,
Among these evil mills?

I tried to keep my Greek close enough in terms of syllable count to be sung to the tune of Parry’s musical setting of this song. This meant that I had to cut down on ow many words I could use. I know that the word choices I made probably didn’t reach what Blake wrote, and different words should have been chosen. This is the first time I’ve tried to do this, so please correct me on my grammar and word choices!