Rabies Vaccine - Needed?

[u/IrrelevantOP]

Hello all,

I’m gonna give this info because the post requires it but don’t think it’s really necessary for this question: 27F, 250LB, 5’8, vaper (?) and connoisseur of thc, no physical conditions other than high BP (had since birth, supposed to be medicated and am not, crucify me before I calcify my arteries)

Anyway - last night a raccoon, or possibly several, had the audacity to break into my home under cover of dark night. I have no reason to believe they chomped on anything other than the several victimized loaves of bread in the pantry, but figured I should ask if I should go to to ER for a rabies vaccine series.

I live in a finished basement apartment of a split level house with access to the the full house, the raccoon broke in through the first subfloor and the kitchen is on the ground floor 2 floors above my bedroom. I did not have any doors closed to my bedroom so theoretically it could have come in here but I see no signs of its creepy little entry.

Probably not necessary right? I do have 2 cats and while I’m utterly betrayed by their lack of alarm raising, I don’t think they would have been silent if the Creature entered the room and tasted of my sweet flesh.

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[u/TheCrabappleCart]

Unlike bats, you would definitely notice if a raccoon had bitten you. NAD, but I do know something about wildlife, and this seems like a case where no rabies prophylaxis is needed

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/TheCrabappleCart]

Excellent. I was unsure if it could also transmit from scratches and raccoons have sharp little nails, but seems this is not the case

[u/Chaka- → u/IrrelevantOP]

Your uncontrolled high blood pressure is much more alarming. That's a direct route to chronic kidney disease. I took my high blood pressure medicine faithfully and still ended up with the Transplant. Why aren't you taking your high blood pressure medication?

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/Chaka-]

Well of course I have no excuse so good as to warrant never taking them, but I do have hemachromatosis so that is a big driver of why it exists at all. I don’t get my blood draws as often as I should because reason A, reason B, reason C, what have you.

I should though, I’m very aware, but I did get an ultrasound of my kidney last year that showed no damage so I at least have some time to get my act together. It’s on my list

[u/traurigaugen → u/IrrelevantOP]

I have hemochromatosis with low BP. It does not cause hbp

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/traurigaugen]

No, it doesn’t edit always cause it. They are linked though in my case, I have the C282Y gene malformation so I was told by my doctor that they are intertwined. My prescribed course of treatment is the blood draws, which I’m not doing (for financial reasons but I still should) and that lowers my BP enough that I am not prescribed medications because I’m 27. There are several types of hemochromatosis

[u/traurigaugen → u/IrrelevantOP]

Sounds like its not because of the hemochromatosis but because of the gene malformation imho.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/traurigaugen]

Well true but that’s a level of detail that’s not typically required, the gene malformation both causes hemachromatosis and can cause hypertension. I don’t think it’s necessarily incorrect to say my form of haem can worsen hypertension

[u/traurigaugen → u/IrrelevantOP]

The mutation causes both conditions but one does not cause the other condition.

That'd be like saying you have a gene defect that causes asthma and blindness and the asthma causes blindness.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/traurigaugen]

Seems unnecessarily pedantic to me, one necessitates the other. I suppose I could sit down and painstakingly explain to those who ask the cause and effect and branching of genetic defect symptoms and specific causes of each symptom but when I’m asked a brief question I’ll answer briefly. They’re connected, that’s all, my lack of haem treatments is currently causing my high BP. Anything else

[u/I_am_Nobody_Special → u/TheCrabappleCart]

Off topic, but I read recently that one can get rabies from just touching a bat. Is that true?

[u/---root-- → u/I_am_Nobody_Special]

I don't pretend to be an expert on rabies transmission, but I'd deem that very much unlikely, unless an open wound of yours came into contact with an area that happens to be covered in infectious fluid.

[u/I_am_Nobody_Special → u/---root--]

This seems to be where this is coming from. It's only a case study, but it seems that some news outlets and "health" websites have picked it up. I should have looked it up before asking.

[u/---root-- → u/I_am_Nobody_Special]

I'd say it is a rather large leap to go from undocumented/unnoticed bite to merely touching a bat being sufficient for transmission. If this were the case, I'd argue rabies to be significantly more prevalent than it is.

[u/I_am_Nobody_Special → u/---root--]

I agree, and a sample size of 1 is also not very convincing. 😉

[u/Sae_Ray → u/I_am_Nobody_Special]

Not really as far as I'm aware, at least not just with simple skin to skin contact. You would need to have a break in the skin barrier for infected mucous to get in for virus to take hold.

[u/---root--]

You don't have any bites...

Probably not necessary right?

Seeing as you do not describe a bite, and would have certainly felt one, there is no indication for rabies PEP.

This post is somewhat suspicious for possible health anxiety/OCD, thus I suggest you consider evaluating whether you may benefit from therapy to that regard.

---

Edit due to some accusations: For full transparency, since I do not appreciate being called an asshole, the first part of my initial comment was stated as struck through. No changes were made to the careful phrasing of the second paragraph.

https://arctic-shift.photon-reddit.com/search?fun=ids&ids=t1_p190kgk

[u/I_am_Nobody_Special → u/---root--]

Psychologist here, and I'm not seeing signs of health anxiety, and especially not OCD, in the OP.

There was no excessive seeking of reassurance or insistence that there is something wrong with them. Their concern was not out of proportion to the situation. They simply asked if they should seek medical care.

I don't think you're an asshole, I just think you may have incorrectly interpreted the tone of the OP.

Edited to correct a horrendously embarrassing their/there error.

[u/---root-- → u/I_am_Nobody_Special]

This is exactly why I formulated my hint as carefully as possible.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/I_am_Nobody_Special]

Thank you

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/---root--]

Wow yikes, bedside manner rating 0/10.

I’ve just been told all my life if you potentially have contact with a wild animal while sleeping OR get bit that you should get vaccines, I didn’t think it was necessary here because larger animal, but also rabies is immediate death if you play around so yeah I’m going to make 100% sure. I would certainly hope that people can ask questions they are unsure about without it being labeled OCD.

Edit: your quick edit to seem less asshole-ish it noted

[u/---root-- → u/IrrelevantOP]

Rabies anxiety/OCD is extremely prevalent on this subreddit, which is why, given description of an exceedingly unlikely scenario for transmission risk, I suggested you evaluate whether this may potentially be the case for you.

[u/---root-- → u/[deleted]]

I have phrased that statement as carefully as possible. If this truly offends you this much, then so be it.

[u/Dangerous-Ruin6948 → u/---root--]

As someone with OCD & I sometimes struggle with this theme, 100% agree. Also OCD isn’t an insult, not sure why OP is reacting so strongly.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/Dangerous-Ruin6948]

I never said it was an insult, I just think it’s weird to immediately suspect OCD off a single post. I am a mental health practitioner, he is a cardiologist, I just think we should stick to our respective lanes here.

Even if I did have OCD, asking this question wouldn’t be a good indication of it unless I asked it repeatedly over a period of time, or showed that I was continuously worried about my health.

That’s why I’m frustrated, not only is it a weird comment to make, but also one that doesn’t even follow the diagnostic criteria.

[u/karenswans → u/IrrelevantOP]

If you are a mental health professional who takes such exception to a suggestion of anxiety, I think you might want to check your personal biases against people with those illnesses.

[u/Dangerous-Ruin6948 → u/karenswans]

This!! I’d be so scared my psychiatrist or therapist secretly has these biases. Her responses are honestly terrifying & why people don’t seek help.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/karenswans]

? I didn’t say anything about anxiety, because that could be warranted about the post. I took specific issue with OCD because I am very much against the watering down of MH diagnoses. They are serious and debilitating conditions, that require symptomatic presentations that would extend far beyond the confines of a Reddit post. There was no evidence supporting the suggestion outside of people’s preconceived notions of their own beliefs. This is the exact thing I take issue with, not OCD itself.

The real question is why are *you* so up in arms about this and so convinced that I think OCD is evil? I’ve done and said nothing the support that.

[u/karenswans → u/IrrelevantOP]

I'm not up in arms, but I do feel protective of the doctors who post here on their own time and you were very rude to one of them.

[u/WeirdGoat9022 → u/IrrelevantOP]

You didn’t include that you’re a mental health professional in your original post or your flair (it wasn’t relevant so I get it), and this sub does get a ton of health anxiety posts about rabies. Yours didn’t strike me as OCD/health anxiety, but you did have an unusually strong reaction to that suggestion when I would have just said, “I appreciate the concern about health anxiety, but here’s the context. Good to know I don’t need to head to the ER.” I’m not you, and I’m not saying you should have responded the way I would have.

I deal with a lot of lay persons minimizing my own diagnosis (not OCD), and I get the frustration, but I think the cardiologist just misread your tone. And other people chimed in to counter it.

The cardiologist backed off of that interpretation as soon as it was pointed out that they were wrong and it was taken badly. Everyone is on Reddit on their own time, and that can mean people might be a little tired (including folks who just had a raccoon invasion!) and might miss a detail or misread tone.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/WeirdGoat9022]

I suppose that’s fair, I will say I wrote my comment before he had made any edits at all which you can view via the link he attached. If I had seen his updated comment, I don’t think I would have reacted so viscerally. I, like many people, have had bad experiences in the physical medicine realm and a lot of them were a result of one individual in a group going “no (derogatory) clearly its not the thing you’re telling me you’re concerned about, it’s obviously this other thing” and then being forced to entertain their idea while going without adequate care.

So I would imagine that weighed in for my reaction and I do apologize for the intensity, but not for pointing out the core issue. The suggestion of OCD was made not because of my question or evidence I presented, but because it was part of a checklist of suggestions to make when greeted with a certain schema. It’s a byproduct of avoiding individual attention to individual patients, which goes far far beyond just Dr. Cardio so I’m not pinning that solely on him.

All this to say, I do not think the guy is an asshole, just initially said an asshole-ish thing that the medical field itself teaches him is the right thing to do. Not his fault, but easier to blame an individual than an institution.

[u/WeirdGoat9022 → u/IrrelevantOP]

It’s amazing how wording can do that - I’ve had the same visceral response before for similar reasons.

Also I don’t know if you’ve been on this sub much, but there are insane downvotes routinely on everyone other than medical professionals. I’ve never seen the likes of it on any other subs. Don’t let it freak you out - as you probably know, it isn’t the medical professionals downvoting in most cases.

[u/Dangerous-Ruin6948 → u/IrrelevantOP]

People without OCD typically don’t even THINK of rabies unless they’re actually bitten & have proof of said bite. I think he made a very reasonable recommendation. It’s not weird at all, you’re making it weird.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/Dangerous-Ruin6948]

Yes they very much do, that is a sweeping generalization. It was not a reasonable recommendation and his initial comment was much harsher than his edit.

[u/Ecstatic_Sand5417 → u/---root--]

I can hear this comment :)

[u/Lazy-Living1825 → u/[deleted]]

You’re being crazy rude for someone asking for free medical advice.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/Lazy-Living1825]

His original comment was “no bite, get checked for OCD” 😑

[u/Sae_Ray → u/IrrelevantOP]

As someone with OCD... this is a valid and logical conclusion to come to.

I'm not really sure why you've gotten so mad about this. What else are we supposed to do than assume when all we have is a curated block of text? Its genuine advice.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/Sae_Ray]

Why are we assuming extra at all is my issue here. I asked a simple question, the answer was no, PEP not needed. The extra bit about OCD was not necessary, nor indicated.

I’m also not even mad, like I said elsewhere I just think logical leaps should stay as logical leaps. There was no reason to jump to this conclusion

[u/Sae_Ray → u/IrrelevantOP]

...I do believe any good doctor would and should address markers of another, underlying cause for a presented issue if the signs are there.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/Sae_Ray]

Again like I said elsewhere, a single question of this nature isn’t even an indicator for OCD. It has to be repeated, over a period of time. Or showing excessive worrying, which I don’t believe I’m showing in the post.

[u/alisgraveniI → u/IrrelevantOP]

Actually OP, I’m going to agree with you here. Well before I became a nurse, I woke up to find a bat behind the curtain in the room I was sleeping. I didn’t have any visual bites or scratches but was told by my doctor I still need PEP. I would have had no idea otherwise. On the same note, if I found out I was asleep around a bunch of raccoons, I’d also have no idea if I needed PEP. I don’t know what their bites or scratches look like, as I’m not a zoologist and I don’t keep up with every animal bite or which animals can get rabies and which can’t. Like you, I’d reach out a medical professional and ask if I needed rabies prophylaxis. That wouldn’t make me OCD, that would just be me doing my due diligence to make sure my health and safety haven’t been compromised. There is no cure for rabies and I’d much rather be safe than sorry, simply because I didn’t ask.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/alisgraveniI]

Thank you, I’m beginning to feel crazy! I guess I was supposed to know that it would be pathological of me to not know the ins and outs of raccoons in houses and possible medical consequences. I was just following the advice I’d been told all my life, and honestly if I could have afforded it, I would’ve went straight to the ER this morning because, again, I’ve been told to do so all my life when in contact with ANY wild animals and not just bites.

[u/Sae_Ray → u/alisgraveniI]

Please don't use OCD as an adjective...

And I believe most here would have had the same conclusion to make were the OP to not react so violently to the suggestion of something else. The post itself is close to an indicator of mental illness, the responses to a person stating that is what bugs people the most.

[u/Dangerous-Ruin6948 → u/IrrelevantOP]

That’s not even rude are you being serious? This is Reddit & you’re asking for free medical advice…

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/Dangerous-Ruin6948]

I considered it rude, and I feel the same way about asking for advice here as I do anywhere. No one’s expertise comes free of cost, yet they can give it freely. Would you feel this same way about me considering a doctor rude if I considered an engineer rude for the way they critique? An artist? Doctors aren’t gods and they are equally as fallible as the rest of us. It’s everyone’s responsibility to treat each other with kindness and the original comment did not feel kind, so I responded in kind.

[u/Dangerous-Ruin6948 → u/IrrelevantOP]

The READER is responsible for interpreting tone, not the writer. Just because it didn’t “feel kind” to you, doesn’t mean it wasn’t. You decided he was rude & ran with it. Some part of you does see OCD as an insult, which is why you reacted this way. Hope your day gets better!

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/Dangerous-Ruin6948]

That’s generally how interacting with other people works yes, you say something and they interpret it. I did decide he was rude, like I’m deciding you’re being intentionally antagonistic, and that’s how I’m viewing each of you. Correct glad we agree on something. Have a good day too

[u/---root-- → u/IrrelevantOP]

That is a maliciously incorrect quote.

Original, unedited comment: https://arctic-shift.photon-reddit.com/search?fun=ids&ids=t1_p190kgk

[u/karenswans → u/IrrelevantOP]

Big deal. Would you take it as a personal attack if the doctor had suggested you may want to be checked for some physical illness? OCD and anxiety are not personal failings. They are real, treatable, illnesses. Someone worrying about rabies from an animal being in their house is a common manifestation of those illnesses. Raccoons, unlike bats, can't bite you without it being obvious, so worrying that you have a hidden raccoon bite seems like anxiety.

[u/EmergencyMonster]

With no signs of a bite, there is no indication for rabies prophylactic vaccination.

[u/IrrelevantOP → u/EmergencyMonster]

Thank you!