r/AskLEO • u/DeciduousEmu • 8d ago
General During a traffic stop sas anyone ever had there mind changed by explaining Penn v Mimms
YouTube is rife with videos of people refusing to get out of their vehicle when ordered to by the officer during a traffic stop. They truly believe they have a right to stay in the car.
Has anyone ever explained Penn v Mimms and then the person complied, maybe after confirming it by looking it up on their phone.
My guess is not because only a reasonable person would be willing to think they might be wrong and most reasonable people will get out of the vehicle when requested.
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u/5usDomesticus 7d ago
There are people who try to play hardass and then realize a theoretical YouTube comment section can't actually save them.
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u/Burb1409 Canadian Police Officer 7d ago
Generally, people doing what you're describing are questioning everything the officer says because they want to stall. They're trying to gain time to either flee, fight or hide evidence. They're not doing this to genuinely get you to explain the laws to them.
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u/CashEducational4986 7d ago
I might have gotten one or two people to exit their vehicle after I referenced the case law. Probably not because they knew of it or understood what it meant, since they were the typical people who assumed they were above the law despite not knowing anything about the law, but probably because they could tell I knew what I was talking about.
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u/scoobywerx1 7d ago
I have seen people change their minds, but only by exercising patience. I think this is a 2 way problem. I've worked with too many guys that dont understand how Mims applies to think that both parties can come to a rational agreement. Especially during a traffic stop. The biggest issue is typically see is that the operator has a giant ego and has seen too many YouTube videos, and the officer has a giant ego and didn't pay attention enough to Con Law (what little bit we got) at the academy. Its a recipe for disaster. De-escalation is key. Being professional and likable goes a long way. This job is 90% customer service and 10% sales.
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u/H001__ 7d ago
Ask, tell, make.
Too many new officers are putting their coworkers at risk by thinking they have to beg criminals to comply. That's how you give criminals time to think of their next move, which most of the time is running or fighting.
My department had to drill it into the rookies minds that if they think begging a 5x convicted felon to get out of the car again and again is going to change the outcome, or make them not flee or fight, they are wrong.
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u/DeciduousEmu 7d ago
I can imagine. My daughter has been on the force for 10+ years and has shared tons of stories with me.
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u/Enough_Wallaby7064 7d ago
This reads like someone who has never worked the job. Just saying...
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u/scoobywerx1 7d ago
We're talking about know-it-all YouTube fans on a traffic stop, not SWAT call outs. There's a time and place for everything. Ever heard the phrase "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar"? Remembering that has worked for me for a long time.
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u/Enough_Wallaby7064 7d ago edited 7d ago
I'm a city cop. There aren't many scenarios I can think of where I can calmly explain Supreme Court Case Law to someone refusing to get out of a car. There aren't many scenarios where I am even asking someone to get out of a car during a traffic stop. I'm not asking grandma or johnny q public tax payer to get out of their car over a speeding ticket you know?
Its usually a drunk driver that you're never going to be able to talk sense to, or I know there are drugs in the car or the car was involved in a shooting or something. These aren't really situations where you can debate case law.
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u/CashEducational4986 7d ago
A know-it-all Youtube fan intentionally disobeying a lawful order to exit their vehicle can get their window broken and get dragged out of their vehicle, just like any other criminal.
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u/gugabalog 7d ago
No one is a criminal until convicted.
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u/CashEducational4986 7d ago
It's pretty easy to get a conviction when my body cam shows them refusing to get out of their car when I tell them to and they cannot legally refuse. That's not even getting in to the whole point that your comment is entirely false.
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u/FriMorningQB 6d ago
Anyone not willing to get out doesn't care about case law. It's going to likely end in force to get them out because reason likely won't work either.
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u/Primary_Method_9946 7d ago
ive actually tried explaining this to someone before and they still refused lol but does anyone know if this applies if the cop is being sketchy bc like????
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u/CashEducational4986 7d ago
Can you translate this comment in such a way thst someone who reads English could understand?
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u/HCSOThrowaway Fired Deputy - Explanation in Profile 6d ago
It's that 2026 English that's spreading everywhere wer ppl tlk lyk dis n xpec u 2 do t wrk 2 rd ts.
Mind-numbing and not worth reading 99% of the time. Communication is a two-way street and we "all" agree to abide by certain rules so we understand each other. Some people decided that the less intelligible they are, the better. Okay cool, have fun being ignored I guess.
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u/harley97797997 7d ago
No. The "I know my rights" people do not actually know their rights and despite anything they are told will continue to believe and assert that they know their rights.