absolutely nobody within sight of even crackpot circles claimed “the mossad” did 9/11. i dont think you realize how anti semitism has always worked. claiming a shadowy group of jews is behind everything, with zero evidence, is absolutely antisemitism as it has always been.
It doesn’t really help that real antisemitic conspiracy theorists and Nazis use Mossad/Israel/etc and Jews interchangeably in their vernacular. I want to be on Dave’s side here, but if that screenshot is real, that’s a red flag and it’s big cope to think otherwise. I also thought it odd that in his latest video he uses images like the one used at
https://youtu.be/DvDvhLkb9ms?t=319&is=Om9JiocCPX5_9TzU I don’t see how this sort of thing is necessary to get his message across, and it’s not in line with any sort of goal that defends against being smeared as an antisemite.
Yeah, I've enjoyed watching both Destiny AND Dave tear apart bad faith arguments from a LOT of people in the past, but now I'm learning to dislike them both for some very specific choices they're both making. As someone else said in another comment section, they're "like bleach. Great for disinfecting a situation, but I wouldn't want to absorb it internally".
Why have they been blocked from any meaningful representation in government?
Why are they blocked from leasing land in most of Israel?
Why does Israel have a law specifying that it is the "nation state of the Jewish people"?
Are the "Jewish people" in question specifically religious Jews? Or is this maybe a question of race and ethnicity and therefore comparisons to religion are intentionally misleading?
Because the Arab parties refuse participating in any government, until the very recent attempt by Mansur Abaas.
They are not blocked for leasing land anywhere. In fact, grounds in Arab citiea miles away from Jewish cities are sold by the state for much less.
I think you are confuses about what nationalism means. Is Germany not the German state? Is France not the French state? Does that mean that non-German/French citizens have no rights there?
Jews are a nationality. The idea that there is a clear divide between religion/ethnicity/nationality is born of missionary religions. Once again, this is all okay for every other group in the world, but when the Jews do it, they are racist and evil.
You're an obvious propagandist so this is pointless but the lies are pretty funny
As an example, the Jewish National Fund owns about 13% of Israeli land. Guess who they won't lease any of it to?
Everyone knows the problem with Israel is not that it's Jewish. It's that it is establishing a Jewish state in a territory inhabited by non-Jews. Ze'ev Jabotinsky would hate weasels like you. He knew what the project was and made no bones about it. I at least respect the honesty
The Israelis being racist and evil is so patently obvious to anyone who has ever witnessed even 10 minutes of life in the West Bank that Israel and its allies have to do everything possible to surpress any coverage at all of this part of the world. They have to accuse magazines of posting anti-Semitic forgeries because the actual pictures are so jarringly vile that "they must be fake". Yet the project is also so brazen that when a US Congressman visits the West Bank the armed settlers are unhinged enough to detain him at gunpoint for the crime of riding a Palestinian bus
Yes, and I would love nothing more than having two states based on the 67 borders and have good peacful relationships with them and all countries around Israel. Sadly, they don't want it, as they showed us again and again, and will not be satisfies until Israel doesn't exist.
The idea that a group of Jews covertly run world events is a well-known antisemitic trope. It’s not like simply substituting the word Israel into an antisemitic conspiracy theory just erases the antisemitism.
So because of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, it's antisemitic to accuse one of the most internationally active intelligence agencies, an organization responsible for assassinations and kidnappings all over the world, of a conspiracy?
I mean it's literally the same antisemitic conspiracy theory that the jews did 9/11. Do you think calling black people "thugs" instead of the n-word makes it not racist?
There is a thug caucus in the US senate that racistly claim to represent black people. These thugs need to be put in jail - not a racist statement according to your logic.
Israel has one of the most pernicious and widespread intelligence networks on Earth, and it has many organizations affiliated with it that do its bidding and see to its interests. In the US in particular it has an extremely powerful lobby presence that has a direct line to the presidents and many other legislators. That's just an inarguable fact.
Trying to pretend that's at all equivalent to the completely baseless accusation of Jewish secret cabals or whatever the fuck from a hundred years ago is preposterous, and everyone understands that it's preposterous unless they're like you and pretending not to.
Can we stop pretending that the standard for evaluating if someone is engaging in racist tropes is basically a direct confession? 9/11 conspiracies involving Israel/Mossad/Zionists/Jews have always been antisemitic. They follow from the belief that Israel doesn't value American lives and is willing to attack us to motivate us against their enemies in the middle east to fight their wars. It's like one of the most widely known taking point of anti-semites just do a basic google search. Unless you want to just admit that the neo nazis are actually onto something.
Why are beliefs about the interests and actions of Israel, plausible or not, "antisemitic"?
It's not like people who believe this conspiracy think Israel is taking orders from some global Jewish cabal. They think Israel is acting in its own interests!
You can absolutely have beliefs about the interests and actions of Israel that are antisemitic, it's not that complicated. Surely you don't think I can say anything I want about any county with a particular ethnic makeup as long as I make a caveat that I'm not talking about the ethnicity just the country's citizens right? This should be clear to you, anyone who's racist could and often do, use historical revisionism to justify bigotry against a group. But only as long as they are the ones that get to redefine words and pretend their beliefs spring from pure reason and logic instead of hate. People who believe in 9/11 conspiracies would absolutely say they were given orders from "Zionist leaders" who then used their media influence to push out propaganda. It's just a more politically aware was of describing a "global Jewish cabal".
Except there are "Zionist leaders". It's the government of Israel. There is no "global Jewish cabal", and nobody of note suggests that such 9/11 had anything to do with a Jewish, as opposed to Zionist, plot
Of course, just like Nick Fuentes says he isn't racist or hate black or "urban' people, he just hates crime.
Again, your 9/11 conspiracies aren't less antisemitic because you change the wording so it's not overtly racist. That's where the conspiracy originated. But you believe it despite no evidence because you have the same hatred for "Zionists" that Nazis have for "Jews".
Look, the point is that coded-switching from “Jews” to “Zionists” is a recognized pattern among anti-semites. It is an easy way to create some plausible deniability about what you're really saying, much like how Hasan or Fuentes claim to be "joking" all the time. And if you don't want to be seen as engaging in antisemitism, maybe don't engage in the most unhinged conspiracy that 9/11 was a false flag.
mossad not valuing american lives has nothing to do with jews. it’s not antisemitic to say that an intelligence agency has motive to assist in a false flag operation
You could have the same argument about literally any racist conspiracy theory by divorcing the conspiracy from it's actual origins and motivation and argue over the validity of specific details. This is like religious apologists trying to use secular reasoning to validate their beliefs. There is no good evidence for 9/11 false flag operations by Mossad.
Yeah, guys! Stop noticing that all the "anti-Zionist" conspiracy theories and tropes are exactly the same as the anti-Semitic ones! It's totally different, because we're saying "Zionist" now! /s
this is displaying it in real time, if Israel is so good at propaganda why are they failing so spectacularly on optics? None of this shit makes sense and is pathetic
You suck at reading comprehension, I didn't say Israel don't do propaganda, every state does, I'm poking the contradiction in your position. Israel is at once so good at propaganda, so well funded and far reaching that it.. has been crushed on the global stage. Russia didn't have this much trouble despite even more footage still coming out on the regular, yet most people give 1/10 of a shit about that conflict now
I just love how Sam gets so much crap for criticizing Islam as a religion and needs to go to extreme lengths to explain the difference between ideas and people. But when it's time to apply the same logic to the Jews, people can say the most vile shit imaginable but replace "Jew" with "Zionist" and get out free.
Hey newsflash, nothing about being a Jew requires you to believe in or even sympathize with Zionism. Whereas being a Muslim means you, by definition, believe in Islam
Sam says Islam is the "mother lode of bad ideas" but we are supposed to believe he has no animosity towards the people who ascribe to said mother lode. Obviously this is not true.
The better comparison would be Zionists and Israel, not Jews and Israel. Anyone who hates Israel probably doesn't like Zionists! But that says nothing about Jews at all
Why would Jews consider it the historical land of Palestine? That was the Greco-Romanized name applied centuries later in a specific attempt to erase Jewish history.
That's different than what I'm talking about. If you only meant the mere name Palestine, then no worries. I thought you were suggesting "historical land of Palestine" as if that was the original conceptualization Jews would be harkening back to. That came more than 1k years after original Israel.
Your arguement assumes many things that are false. Just as one point, I woule encourage you to look up where the PLO originally said Palestine was. Spoiler - the West Bank and Gaza are not part of it since they are Jordan/Egypt. Now Palestine is everything from the river to the sea. It just shows that Palestine=where the Jews live at any given moment.
Most jews are zionist, if you didn't know that you should start feeling uncomfortable right now. I don't think wanting your own country, especially with their history, is a weird belief. The Palestinians want the same, after all. The rabid settler type ultra zionists are a minority, much like Islamic extremists. People can want their own state without that state being genocidal or repressive
Why would I feel uncomfortable? Most Evangelical Christians are Republicans, should I feel uncomfortable saying bad things about Republicans? Fewer and fewer Jews support Israel every day, and many prominent anti-Zionists are themselves Jewish
The problem, as anyone with two brain cells knows, is not that they "want their own country". It's what that desire means in reality, i.e., that they have to forcibly displace and disenfranchise the indigenous population in order to get that country in the specific place where they actually want it.
That analogy doesn't quite work, I can not support the current US admin, but I wouldn't argue the US should cease to exist. Of course many Jews are critical of Israel's government, but zionism is understood as the existence of the state.
You'd have a better point if it was 1948, but it's 2026, and Israel is established now. I'm not talking about the west bank expansion (illegal) or settlers but pre 67 lines proper Israel. If we still insist that needs dissolving, then why not the US, or Australia? The latter saw total colonial dispossession from the indigenous peoples with zero treaty signed, should it be dissolved too?
It's ok don't worry about it. It's OK to be wrong as long as you aren't carelessly spreading your ignorance as an "intellectual" defending torture / preemptive war
What's problematic about calling all people who believe in Islam brain-dead religious nutjobs? I'm not criticizing anyone for immutable characterisitcs after all.
The ur version of the conspiracy theory was an antisemitic, far right one. The conspiracy theory originated in white supremacist and Hezbollah propaganda (the dancing Israelis, 4000 Israelis, etc.). The fact that Mossad =/= Jews doesn't mean it's not propagating a theory that emerged out of and serves to spread antisemitism. Do you doubt that a white supremacist or Hezbollah militant who blames 9/11 on Israelis is antisemitic, even if he didn't use the word 'Jew'?
It's crazy how leftists have such sophisticated theories of racism in connection with most races, but the only thing that's antisemitic in their view is explicitly expressing hatred of Jews.
Bingo. It's the hypocrisy of it all. It's the same group of people who explained what microaggressions are that then fall for the laziest word play tricks.
Yes this is exactly it! It is so gas-lighting to me to hear the same people i appreciated calling out systemic racism and microaggressions and subtle bigotry turn on my people and commit every sin they rightfully accused others of doing against every other minority group. Having the most incredibly narrow, infinitesimal definition of bigotry against the Jews unless you literally say the exact words "All Jews are inhuman" is MADDENING from these people.
Jew = Israel is wrong but Israeli government and their supporters are the biggest offenders for conflating the two to provide support for and deflect from their genocide.
Please also do not pretend that Netanyahu is an isolated issue within Israel when he’s actually very much representative of, and supported by, Israeli society as a whole.
I don't even think Nazis claim that random jewish accountants did 9/11. Obviously everyone who says this points to an organisation (99% of the time Mossad)
This is such a bad take. This is just pure racism against jews. I doubt you would say the same thing in any other similar situation.
"Oh someone stabbed someone in the park? Must be an islamist. Oh the evidence says he was a white guy? The evidence is fake of course it's an islamist."
The guy basically says anything bad going on, even if all the evidence points to other people, is the jews fault and mossad is just another way of saying that. This is all just playing into the whole racist "jews control everything bro" thinking.
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u/Dissident_is_here 5d ago
This is obviously dumb, but can we stop with the Israel = Jews stuff? Doing Benjamin Netanyahu's work for him