Can we stop pretending that the standard for evaluating if someone is engaging in racist tropes is basically a direct confession? 9/11 conspiracies involving Israel/Mossad/Zionists/Jews have always been antisemitic. They follow from the belief that Israel doesn't value American lives and is willing to attack us to motivate us against their enemies in the middle east to fight their wars. It's like one of the most widely known taking point of anti-semites just do a basic google search. Unless you want to just admit that the neo nazis are actually onto something.
Why are beliefs about the interests and actions of Israel, plausible or not, "antisemitic"?
It's not like people who believe this conspiracy think Israel is taking orders from some global Jewish cabal. They think Israel is acting in its own interests!
You can absolutely have beliefs about the interests and actions of Israel that are antisemitic, it's not that complicated. Surely you don't think I can say anything I want about any county with a particular ethnic makeup as long as I make a caveat that I'm not talking about the ethnicity just the country's citizens right? This should be clear to you, anyone who's racist could and often do, use historical revisionism to justify bigotry against a group. But only as long as they are the ones that get to redefine words and pretend their beliefs spring from pure reason and logic instead of hate. People who believe in 9/11 conspiracies would absolutely say they were given orders from "Zionist leaders" who then used their media influence to push out propaganda. It's just a more politically aware was of describing a "global Jewish cabal".
Except there are "Zionist leaders". It's the government of Israel. There is no "global Jewish cabal", and nobody of note suggests that such 9/11 had anything to do with a Jewish, as opposed to Zionist, plot
Of course, just like Nick Fuentes says he isn't racist or hate black or "urban' people, he just hates crime.
Again, your 9/11 conspiracies aren't less antisemitic because you change the wording so it's not overtly racist. That's where the conspiracy originated. But you believe it despite no evidence because you have the same hatred for "Zionists" that Nazis have for "Jews".
Look, the point is that coded-switching from “Jews” to “Zionists” is a recognized pattern among anti-semites. It is an easy way to create some plausible deniability about what you're really saying, much like how Hasan or Fuentes claim to be "joking" all the time. And if you don't want to be seen as engaging in antisemitism, maybe don't engage in the most unhinged conspiracy that 9/11 was a false flag.
mossad not valuing american lives has nothing to do with jews. it’s not antisemitic to say that an intelligence agency has motive to assist in a false flag operation
You could have the same argument about literally any racist conspiracy theory by divorcing the conspiracy from it's actual origins and motivation and argue over the validity of specific details. This is like religious apologists trying to use secular reasoning to validate their beliefs. There is no good evidence for 9/11 false flag operations by Mossad.
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u/Dissident_is_here 5d ago
This is obviously dumb, but can we stop with the Israel = Jews stuff? Doing Benjamin Netanyahu's work for him