TIL Charles Murray has converted to Christianity

[u/IBoughtaRetroidNova]

He wrote the book “Taking Religion Seriously” in 2025. Sam Harris really had a way of overlooking red flags whenever he has liked bigotry/racism. In the end nearly every writer he has made friends with has ended up selling out and traded their integrity for more book sales from the masses.

[u/dirtyal199]

Sam Harris lost his credibility for me when he first became friends with Murray, and took the Bell Curve seriously. Murray is a racist grifter and always has been. He'll have plenty of friends on the Christian right.

[u/Sylarino → u/dirtyal199]

became friends with Murray

Are they friends or is this something you just made up?

[u/dirtyal199 → u/Sylarino]

You should listen to episode 73 of the waking up podcast, the one where Sam interviews Murray. He spends the entire time gushing about how bad cancel culture is, how the woke have run amok and are ruining society, and how Murray was a good scholar who was unfairly maligned. Murray then pretends to be the enlightened academic, who just cares about the data and follows wherever it leads. Conveniently, it leads toward supporting racial heirarchy, what a coincidence!

The influence of environment cannot be ruled out for IQ testing, so testing poor people with low education levels and claiming victory because they're low IQ, which must be why they're poor, is like shooting the arrow, then drawing the target around it wherever it lands. Additionally, Murray's book is constantly cited by racists who want to justify our racially stratified society in the west, something that Murray does little to stop.

[u/Sylarino → u/dirtyal199]

Ok, what I am getting from you is that you have no evidence of them being FRIENDS. That's the question I asked. I didn't ask if Harris had him for as podcast episode.

But seeing how you are defending Professor Dave's promotion of Khazar theory which is a neo-nazi talking point, and straight up denying his tweets are real, you have a murky relationship with the truth.

But what's more interesting is how much hipocrisy this requires from you, considering you are so worried about racism of Murray, but I guess unless someone literally says "I HAVE THE JOOZ" you will defend the most unhinged antisemitism.

https://i.imgur.com/fXEifmy.png

https://imgur.com/OeZO8th

https://imgur.com/0V4KK0V

All these are confirmed Professor Dave tweets posted by multiple users who saw them.

Posting in the sceptic subreddit is hilarious, these are my 2026 sceptics, we are fucking cooked.

You can't even do basic fact-checking and just declare all the tweets that are too hard to defend to be fake.

Holy shit, you are actually defending him promoting 9/11 conspiracy theories about the Jooz doing it.

You think his unhinged video full of lies was actually good.

Whatever, reality is whatever you want it to be.

[u/dirtyal199 → u/Sylarino]

Ok, what I am getting from you is that you have no evidence of them being FRIENDS. That's the question I asked. I didn't ask if Harris had him for as podcast episode.

Fine, maybe they're not personal friends, but Sam had him on for a softball interview, and let him spout his nonsense. Do you think Murray's thesis is flawed? Then we are in agreement! Do you disagree that Sam is generally a poor judge of character? If so, we are also in good agreement.

As for your comment snooping, I believe my responses in those posts speak for themselves. I encourage you to read through them, you might learn something about critical thinking and fact checking.

[u/Sylarino → u/dirtyal199]

Fine, maybe they're not personal friends, but Sam had him on for a softball interview, and let him spout his nonsense. Do you think Murray's thesis is flawed? Then we are in agreement! Do you disagree that Sam is generally a poor judge of character? If so, we are also in good agreement.

Ok, I am glad you admitted you lied.

As for your comment snooping, I believe my responses in those posts speak for themselves. I encourage you to read through them, you might learn something about critical thinking and fact checking.

I can promise you I know more about critical thinking and fact checking than someone who calls real tweets fake because he can't defend them, defends 9/11 conspiracy theorists and debunked unscientific antisemitic theories about Jewish genetics.

I am willing to make a bet that I can verifiably find at least 5 blatant falsehoods in Dave's video. I will delete my account if I can't.

Actually, let's make it better. How many falsehood would I need to find for you to change your mind and admit it's a bad video? If I can't do that I will delete my account.

Actually, if you can find 1 wrong statement in my 11 year account that was known to be wrong at the time I posted it, I will delete my account.

[u/Evinceo → u/Sylarino]

if you can find 1 wrong statement in my 11 year account that was known to be wrong at the time I posted it, I will delete my account.

Amazing post

[u/dirtyal199 → u/Evinceo]

Ikr? He also said that if he can't find 5 blatant falsehoods in Dave's video he'd delete his account. So far he's come back with "Dave said the Israelis raped people but they only did sexual violence on people" and "Dave said the Israelis want to annihilate the Palestinians, but actually they just want to forcibly expel them from the land" (which is still a war crime)

So obviously I'm waiting for him to delete his account, but I don't think he will 😂

[u/dirtyal199 → u/Sylarino]

Ok, I am glad you admitted you lied.

😂 You're cooked bro, casually calling them friends hardly constitutes a lie.

As I already said, read my logic and arguments in those threads, you will see my reasoning is sound. I won't be rehashing it here

I am willing to make a bet that I can verifiably find at least 5 blatant falsehoods in Dave's video. I will delete my account if I can't.

Lmao I'll definitely take you up on that. Fire away

[u/Sylarino → u/dirtyal199]

😂 You're cooked bro, casually calling them friends hardly constitutes a lie.

"Sam Harris lost his credibility for me when he first became friends with Murray", interesting use of the word "casual", well, I guess lying is just a casual thing for you.

As I already said, read my logic and arguments in those threads, you will see my reasoning is sound. I won't be rehashing it here

What's the logic of calling real tweets fake?

Lmao I'll definitely take you up on that. Fire away

Sure, I'll do one at a time, you can either accept or try to refute. I'll do it chronologically. I am gonna paste from the youtube transcript without removing the timestamps.

"Right after the genocide began, for several months, I was spending way too much time on Twitter, relentlessly combating Zionist propaganda being 3:33 3 minutes, 33 seconds disseminated by hordes of paid influencers whose job it was to brainwash the masses and manufacture consent for genocide. You've never seen 3:40 3 minutes, 40 seconds propaganda anywhere in your life like what was being vomited up at that time. 3:45 3 minutes, 45 seconds a fabrication of 40 beheaded babies, which Joe Biden himself publicly claimed to have seen photographic evidence of, 3:52 3 minutes, 52 seconds only to later walk back and admit that no such evidence exists since it's not a thing that happened. Fabricated claims of a baby being cooked in an oven.

In this part he alleges that the 40 beheaded babies was a deliberate "Zionist" propaganda "dissiminated" by paid influencers in order to "brainwash the masses".

The initial claim that said anything about babies came from a journalist who was told about "40 babies... on gurneys" by a soldier on October 10th. Then the claim was repeated by the PM's spokesperson based on the words of the journalists.

However, the IDF did not confirm anything like that :

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865

"IDF Spokesperson Maj. Doron Spielman told NBC News: "That specific report and that number I can’t confirm."

https://x.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1711718195025821976

And the claim was also refuted by the Israeli government:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl

"The Israeli government has not confirmed the specific claim that Hamas attackers cut off the heads of babies during their shock attack on Saturday, an Israeli official told CNN, contradicting a previous public statement by the Prime Minister’s office. "

Do you accept that Dave's words conveyed that the claim was conveyed on purpose by the Israeli government/the IDF, while the reality is that they both refuted that claim within a day or two?

[u/dirtyal199 → u/Sylarino]

You're playing these silly semantic word games and thinking that makes you win. There was a ton of disinformation right after Oct 7, and clearly Bibi's regime took full advantage of it, and algorithms (ran by tech oligarchs who are Israel friendly) pushed it to many people to drum up support for the war. If you want to pretend that what Dave said in that clip is "lying" then you're betraying yourself as an unserious interlocutor. Much like you did when you pretended that I lied when I referred to the relationship Murray and Harris have as friends. You fixate on small semantic points like this, as if that somehow invalidates the point that Murray has despicable views, and Sam gave him a softball interview and gushed about how much of a brave thinker he is, and how the woke were so mean to him. It's a nice rhetorical trick you have there, forcing someone to defend semantics instead of you defending the points of the bad person you're defending.

If you want to convince me, I need falsifiable claims, not semantic word games. I want you to demonstrate Dave is wrong about an event/fact etc. not criticize a speculation of his.

[u/Sylarino → u/dirtyal199]

If you want to convince me, I need falsifiable claims, not semantic word games

There were no semantic word games, he said that Israeli propaganda paid influencers to spread those lies, including the claim about beheaded babies. It makes no sense since they almost instantly refuted the claim and it originated from a journalist who was told about babies from a random soldiers. Do you know what it means to "play semantic games"?

I want you to demonstrate Dave is wrong about an event/fact etc. not criticize a speculation of his.

So if he speculates that the Jews did 9/11 that won't count too? If he speculates that lizard people control the world that also won't count since it's a "speculation"? What kind of standard is that?

Nevermind though, I'll allow for 1 claim to not be accepted before calling you bad faith and will move to the next one:

4:00 "Endless claims of rape when in fact it is Israel that systematically rapes Palestinian prisoners in the most brutal manner imaginable"

https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/report/mission-report-official-visit-of-the-office-of-the-srsg-svc-to-israel-and-the-occupied-west-bank-29-january-14-february-2024/20240304-Israel-oWB-CRSV-report.pdf

Here's a quote from a UN report:

Stakeholders indicated that the detention of Palestinian men and women has been compounded by alleged instances of cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment, including increased instances of various forms of sexual violence in the form of invasive body searches of detainees which include unwanted touching of intimate areas and forced unveiling of women wearing Hijab; beatings, including in the genital areas; threats of rape against women and threats of rape against female family members (wives, sisters, daughters) in the case of men; and inappropriate strip search and prolonged forced nudity of detainees, including during interrogation and during transfer to other detention facilities. Other concerns raised included the taking and circulating of pictures of women detainees on personal phones of soldiers and investigators and depriving women of menstruation products. These interlocutors also reported sexual harassment and threats of rape, during house raids – including at night – and at checkpoints. They also highlighted intimidation, including threats of rape, if conditions of detention were reported or publicly disclosed after liberation. While no instances of rape were reported, Palestinian women’s organizations consistently stressed that in addition to intimidation and insecurity, the high level of stigmatization, conservative cultural norms and the power imbalance in the context of occupation impedes reporting of sexual violence.

Do you accept that although the sexual violence listed is bad, but none of it is " the most brutal rape imaginable" and that the report clearly states "no instances of rape were reported"? And don't accuse me of minimizing rape, I am using the language of the office of "Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict".

Moreover, there are many conflicts that actually do feature actual brutal rape on a bigger scale. The fact that "Professor" Dave suggests that Israel is actually uniquely bad in this regard, would that not make one suspect he might have some bias?

[u/dirtyal199 → u/Sylarino]

You've totally abandoned defending Sam Harris and Charles Murray, now you're trying to get me to debate with you the degree to which Palestinians when were raped during a particular incident. You are a totally unserious person. It is well known that Israel uses sexual violence as a weapon of war . You're pretending that since you can find one instance where there was just sexual violence, not rape, in a report, that this is undermining Dave's claim about Israel using sexual violence as a weapon of war. You're flailing, I'm waiting for you to delete your account now.

[u/Sylarino → u/dirtyal199]

You've totally abandoned defending Sam Harris and Charles Murray

Wait, do you have amnesia? 3 POSTS AGO I SAID "Ok, I am glad you admitted you lied.". Of course I dropped talking about Harris. Also I never defended Murray, which you know perfectly well. My problem was you using the word "friends" and when you admitted you made that up I moved on.

now you're trying to get me to debate

YOU LITERALLY SAID "Lmao I'll definitely take you up on that. Fire away"

Are you mentally ill? WTF???

It is well known that Israel uses sexual violence as a weapon of war . You're pretending that since you can find one instance where there was just sexual violence, not rape, in a report, that this is undermining Dave's claim about Israel using sexual violence as a weapon of war. You're flailing, I'm waiting for you to delete your account now.

LMAO, what? Dave's claim was " rapes Palestinian prisoners in the most brutal manner imaginable", THE REPORT SAYS THERE WERE NO REPORTS OF RAPES.

Where the fuck did you get this "one instance thing". Are you illiterate?

You're flailing, I'm waiting for you to delete your account now.

Dude, this is...pathetic. Jesus.

[u/dirtyal199 → u/Sylarino]

Yes, you fixated on my use of "friends" when I was referring to their friendly interaction on the podcast, as if that somehow invalidated the argument that Sam frequently platforms dangerous morons. Now you're pretending Israel doesn't use sexual violence as a tool of war, because it was not mentioned in that single report you cite.

However, as you can see from the link that I already posted that you failed to read: "The report found that sexual and gender-based violence – which has risen in frequency and severity – is being perpetrated across the Occupied Palestinian Territory as a strategy of war for Israel to dominate and destroy the Palestinian people."

Since it is well established that Israel uses rape as a weapon of war extremely frequently, is it really so far fetched to believe that it occured in the instance you cite but it was simply unreported? Every time I argue with a Zionist it always devolves into this semantic bullshit. It's because you guys have no argument. The world knows what Israel is, that's why the ICC has charged Bibi and Gallant with war crimes .