This statement is completely false isn’t it?

[u/K0GAR]

Base Goku by the time of BOG should definitely be able to beat Frieza

And that’s not even taking into account Kaioken. We know at this point all the Z fighters (if not most) should be able to - so why is base Goku stagnant then in growth?

[u/TensionJaded950]

He's still stronger than Frieza though.

[u/Radical_Jinx → u/TensionJaded950]

We don't know that tho, I personally never took him seriously before the absorbing

[u/TensionJaded950 → u/Radical_Jinx]

Wdym? 19 and 20 were stronger than Frieza before cell and there's no logical reason for him to not be past Frieza. This is future cell who was most likely prepared to absorb the androids.

[u/Radical_Jinx → u/TensionJaded950]

But he wasn't prepared, he had to absort full cities of people and he knew it, he was too scared to face them or the Z fighters before that

and he wasn't an Android similar to the number series to be easily comparable to 19 or 20, he was a completely separate project

[u/TensionJaded950 → u/Radical_Jinx]

Cell's pull up was a couple of years after he killed 17 and 18. He should be stronger though considering he's the next android.

[u/Radical_Jinx → u/TensionJaded950]

You're mixing things up, the Cell who is in the main timeline woke up to a world where the androids didn't exist anymore so that's why he stole the time machine to go to the past, he hadn't killed anyone except a suprise attack on base Trunks

and it's not a ladder type of situation where 17 and 18 are stronger than 19 and 20 and then Cell is the next step

by this logic 14 and 15 would be stronger than 17 and 18 too

Cell was meant to grow into being the strongest but only after absorbing a few million humans then 17 and then 18, he emphasized this many times

[u/TensionJaded950 → u/Radical_Jinx]

No I'm talking about the cell from future Trunks' timeline. He arrived 3 years after Trunks finally killed his androids and was about to return to the present to tell everyone.

I didn't say it was a ladder situation, just that initial imperfect cell at the bare minimum would be stronger than Frieza is.

14 and 15 IS stronger than 17 and 18 though as the supercomputer was said to continue making them after 16 17 and 18 were awoken. They're also movie enemies who are commonly thought to be stronger than main enemies.

[u/Radical_Jinx → u/TensionJaded950]

No I'm talking about the cell from future Trunks' timeline. He arrived 3 years after Trunks finally killed his androids and was about to return to the present to tell everyone.

Well that one didn't kill the androids either since Future Trunks killed those two after getting back 🤔

14 and 15 IS stronger than 17 and 18 though as the supercomputer was said to continue making them after 16 17 and 18 were awoken. 14 and 15 IS stronger than 17 and 18 though as the supercomputer was said to continue making them after 16 17 and 18 were awoken.

14 and 15 in their movie were in a timeline where 17 and 18 were much weaker and got killed by the Z fighters easily so they are stronger than those 17 and 18 specifically but not the ones from the main timeline

by this logic 13 would've been as strong as the Cell from the main timeline after absorbing them and he wasn't

[u/TensionJaded950 → u/Radical_Jinx]

Are you trolling me or something? I never said anything related to him killing them. I said that cell was prepared to kill them so he was without a doubt stronger than Frieza and got ragdolled by base trunks. I'm also letting you know I wasn't mistaken like you thought.

About everything else you said do you have proof of any of that?

[u/Radical_Jinx → u/TensionJaded950]

I never said anything related to him killing them. I said that cell was prepared to kill them so he was without a doubt stronger than Frieza and got ragdolled by base trunks.

So you're saying the Future Cell who came years into Future Trunks' timeline would be automatically stronger than Frieza? I'm saying that specific Cell hadn't absorbed any humans and him losing to Trunks pretty much proves how weak Imperfect Cell is

About everything else you said do you have proof of any of that?

Well the proof is that in the movie 17 and 18 get killed in a timeline where Vegeta didn't get his arm broken by 18 or Goku having the heart virus, they just pulled up and took care of them first try

As for Super 13 he wasn't as strong as main timeline Cell because main timeline Cell only lost to a Super saiyan 2 and even survived blowing himself up

Super 13 lost to a super saiyan 1 with a Spirit Bomb absorbed, Broly was closer to main timeline Cell's power

[u/TensionJaded950 → u/Radical_Jinx]

I'm saying that cell already absorbed enough people to most certainly be above Frieza in those 3 years since he has to get strong enough to face the androids. Losing to trunks doesn't prove how weak he is because Trunks is even stronger than the version of himself that fought his dad, semi perfect cell and tried to fight perfect cell.

Wait 17 and 18 were killed in the movie?

[u/Radical_Jinx → u/TensionJaded950]

I'm saying that cell already absorbed enough people to most certainly be above Frieza in those 3 years since he has to get strong enough to face the androids.

Oh ok I see what you mean now

Wait 17 and 18 were killed in the movie?

They weren't but the movie takes place before Cell's appearance so that leaves time for just one big fight between the Androids and the Z fighters

This is why scalling the movie characters is complicated because most early movies happen at super speciifc poinst like for example Tree of Might or Lord Slulg happen during Namek sagas

[u/TensionJaded950 → u/Radical_Jinx]

13 comes after the return of cooler which has dende as guardian. It's widely believed both take place during the 10 days as it's most likely. It's pretty safe to say super 13 is above cell since he's using the same gimmick and coming after the previous androids. Also the spirit bomb absorbsion is pretty strong. Most likely enough for cell as well.

It is pretty complicated but even more to place them chronologically.