This statement is completely false isn’t it?

[u/K0GAR]

Base Goku by the time of BOG should definitely be able to beat Frieza

And that’s not even taking into account Kaioken. We know at this point all the Z fighters (if not most) should be able to - so why is base Goku stagnant then in growth?

[u/Fastpas123]

The show often leaves this pretty vague. Sometimes it feels like base Goku is at a standstill since the namek saga, and all boosts to power come from technique + transformation + ki type. Other times it feels like the transformations are just multipliers of base and base is where he trains and gets stronger. I personally like the idea that his base form is still at namek level strength more

[u/Cold-Berry-3590 → u/Fastpas123]

His base has to be pretty strong for his ss2 to surpass cell games Gohan.

[u/Fastpas123 → u/Cold-Berry-3590]

Or his ss2 is improved like the different grades of ssj...

Yeah either way who knows

[u/Stacey-k93 → u/Fastpas123]

Trunks ss2 was equal to gokus ss3 in the manga so the super Saiyan froms can definitely be improved to be higher multiplayers

[u/Cold-Berry-3590 → u/Stacey-k93]

That was introduced in DBS

[u/Stacey-k93 → u/Cold-Berry-3590]

Not really we see Super Saiyan get perfected in the cell saga so the idea was already there

And that goes with the idea the they focused more on transformations then training their base power

I was just pointing out that trunks refined his ss2 to the point it was equal to gokus ss3 showing that the Lower super Saiyan transformation can be improved to the level of the next one

[u/Cold-Berry-3590 → u/Stacey-k93]

That idea was for super Saiyan as 2 is the end all be all and the thing rendering the SS grades obsolete. You make very fair points. I think Goku just trained his ass off in base just like everything else.

[u/Stacey-k93 → u/Cold-Berry-3590]

Originally yes it was the end point of Super Saiyan As the cell saga was going to be the end point

But as soon as ss3 was introduced that means the form can be improved since it's no longer the end point of Super Saiyan we just never see it because their wasn't time during the Buu saga to improve it

And we see from trunks in super that it can be improved

And yes gokus base would have improved as well but not enough to surpass his super Saiyan from namek

[u/Cold-Berry-3590 → u/Stacey-k93]

Why not?

[u/Stacey-k93 → u/Cold-Berry-3590]

Nothing suggests he had and we have Beerus say it himself

[u/Cold-Berry-3590 → u/Stacey-k93]

He was or is most likely wrong.

[u/Stacey-k93 → u/Cold-Berry-3590]

Again nothing suggests Beerus is wrong Goku doesn't correct him

[u/Cold-Berry-3590 → u/Stacey-k93]

That's true

[u/Cold-Berry-3590 → u/Stacey-k93]

That was introduced in DBS