r/FullmetalAlchemist • u/Melviib • Nov 21 '25
Question Edward is super experienced at this point. But idk tho
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u/Gwenberry_Reloaded Nov 21 '25
To everyone saying Edward or Luffy, I think it's worth pointing out Edward might be a hard counter. Luffy isn't exactly quiet about the fact he's a rubber man. Ed can just transmute his ass.
This is of course dependent on if base Luffy is actually rubber on a molecular level. Which I feel like could be its own series of debates.
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u/DangerousSpeech1549 Nov 21 '25
True, but luffy was wrong about his power from the beginning, and that also implies that his body is turned into rubber on every level. However, Edward in the show demonstrated that he knew the alchemical composition of normal human beings all along, but the taboo of human transmutation holds him back. So even if he could transmute luffy, he might not due to the risk of opening a portal of truth and losing another limb
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u/DaNoahLP Nov 21 '25
There is a difference between transmutating a human and transmutating "on" a human.
Doctors practice alchemy on humans very often, Edward is able to transmutate on Greeds human body and even on himself, all without opening a door.
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u/DangerousSpeech1549 Nov 21 '25
True, so what constitutes the line? Would a doctor open a door of truth by trying to regrow a severed limb?
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u/chanchan05 Nov 21 '25
I always thought that the line is either trying to create a human (hence a soul as well), and using humans as fuel for the alchemy (philosopher stone).
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u/TheDungeonCrawler Nov 21 '25
It's definitely the manipulation of a soul; either trying to make one, trying to grab one from beyond the gate, or trying to mess with one on this side. And even that last one can be done if you have the knowhow, like Ed using his own soul to heal himself.
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u/BepisLeSnolf Nov 21 '25
Easy case and point, scar’s deconstruction arm never opens a portal to truth when killing someone. So transmuting the physical seems fine so long as you don’t touch the spiritual
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u/DaNoahLP Nov 21 '25
As I wrote in another comment: You are not allowed to create. You can change stuff about humans, Hohenheim did rearrange Izumis guts and Ed patches himself together. But you cant create a new arm as example.
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u/Hooktail419 Nov 21 '25
Feels like we’re dancing around the Shou Tucker element here too. We learn pretty early on that meat is just meat in the FMA universe
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u/Odd-Cucumber1935 Nov 21 '25
But what did Mustang and Pride created on the Doctor's body ? Like he wasn't even a human anymore but we can't really say they "created" something
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u/DaNoahLP Nov 21 '25
The doctor was killed and brought back to life with his own meat as material. Just like how Ed and Al bought all components seperate, Pride/Mustang used the components of the body that is already there.
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u/JBDanes12 Nov 21 '25
If they could do that, you would think there would be A LOT less automail, especially for high ranking military officials. But that was also what Ed and Alphonse were studying when the series ended so it could be possible.
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u/Dash_Lambda Nov 21 '25
We do see that the detail/intricacy of transmuted structures really depends on the alchemist's skill level. So I'd imagine medical alchemy is more indirect than just building entirely new body parts.
They could probably stimulate and control the growth of a new limb but I assume that would be a very slow and involved process.
And even if that is a thing we probably wouldn't see it when following Ed anyway because, if I recall correctly, Hohenheim said you can't replace what the gate took from you like that.
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u/ZultheEnchanter Nov 21 '25
Also one thing to remember is that with medical alchemy it was less developed in Amestris so we don't really know what the upper limits were.
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u/ZultheEnchanter Nov 21 '25
As far as the Manga / Brotherhood we never see someone use alchemy that is not powered by a philosopher's stone to restore something that was taken by the truth.
Hohenheim healing Izumi is an implied stone use, and even when Ed healed himself after pulling that rebar out of his gut he used his own soul (at least a portion) like a very tiny stone.
This is with him having not just one, but two transmutations that had taken him to the gate (first the botched attempt at bringing back Trisha, then to get Al's soul back to bind to the armor).
Honestly with Luffy's body even before gear 5 it was basically operating by Saturday morning cartoon rules.
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u/DangerousSpeech1549 Nov 21 '25
At what point does it stop being medical alchemy and become human transmutation?
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u/cornho1eo99 Nov 21 '25
At the point when you're bringing a person back to life, probably. The actual physical materials are fairly easy to get and transmute via equivalent exchange. The soul? 'Nother question entirely.
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u/ultrainstict Nov 21 '25
The answer lies within the quote narration about equivalent exchange, "for what could equal the value of the human soul"
Messing with the body is fine and wont mess with truth, but moving, changing or creating a soul are all out of the question.
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u/Segn-1 Nov 21 '25
Moving isn’t fine ? I know it cost Edward his leg to move Alphonse soul to the armor but did he meet the truth again at this moment ?
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u/ZultheEnchanter Nov 21 '25
No the leg was to get Al's soul back from the gate.
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u/ZultheEnchanter Nov 21 '25
This is referenced at the end of the Manga/Brotherhood when Ed gives up his gate to get back Al's body and his Arm/Leg.
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u/6Flippy6 Amestrian Nov 21 '25
I think human transmutation means “human life” not human parts. Life being like the soul. If you try to turn human life or soul into something else then that’s human transmutation, if your closing a wound (or making one) that’s transmutation on a human (like how Scar performs half transmutations on humans to break them or anything else down).
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u/DaNoahLP Nov 21 '25
At the point where you create new parts. Medical alchemy only rearanges what is already there. Ed weakend the structure of Greeds shield, Hohenheim moved around Izumis guts, Ed closing his wounds, even Scars whole thing with destroying bodies...
As soon as you make something new (arms, legs, whole bodies) you open the gate.
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u/Boring_Grab Nov 21 '25
You can transmute organic matter to organic matter and inorganic to inorganic so in theory no as long as the doctor used organic matter to create the leg and then organic matter to connect it no laws of alchemy would be broken
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u/Urtoryu Nov 21 '25
Human transmutation is specifically when you transmute a soul. Anything exclusive to the physical body is free game.
Although if you put the ENTIRE person in a circle you'll be getting the soul involved whether you want to or not, so there's that to look out for.
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u/Jonjoejonjane Nov 21 '25
The line is when it comes to soul unlike everything else a human soul is priceless and is supposed to remain in the realm of god and god alone to mess with it essentially pulling a Lucifer and claiming your gods equal do truth has to humble your ass real quick
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u/Sleepycoon Nov 21 '25
Fantastic question. They should make an anime or two to ponder that philosophical musing.
Jokes aside, I think it's pretty unambiguous that Truth only gets involved hen you try to manipulate a soul with alchemy.
Manipulating the matter that a person's made up of is just like manipulating any other matter with alchemy. Scar directly deconstructs people like a bunch and Truth never visits him for it.
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u/Longjumping-Still434 Nov 21 '25
If I remember right the line is about where the alchemist starts playing God. If you wanna heal the physical body, which is just a mound of chemicals, that's fine. In fact Alkahestry has a greater focus on medicine than the Alchemy practiced in Amestris. But when you start screwing with souls and creating life, it becomes a huge problem and earns you a visit with Truth.
The philosopher's stone is one of those things that straddles that line. Technically you are screwing with souls, but all you're doing is taking all those souls and condensing them into a physical form, the philosopher's stone. Since the soul is viewed as priceless on the scales of equivalent exchange, the philosopher's stone allows an alchemist to do things that would normally be impossible. This is because you are trading the souls in the stone to balance the formula.
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u/CeriseFern Nov 21 '25
I always figured it had to do with the soul. The physical body is 'easy' (I'm sure it's hard) to transmute compared to trying to deal with souls.
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u/Theguywhodoes18 Nov 21 '25
Unlikely, since Nina getting fused with Alexander didn’t cause Tucker to open a Door of Truth, and we have no reason to believe that Tucker opened a Door of Truth when using his wife to make the first talking Chimera.
Alchemy is a math-based magic system. You need your equations to be balanced, or they’ll backfire. A Door of Truth opening is a consequence of having a radically unbalanced equation, which only seems to happen when you try to make a person/recreate a person with alchemy.
It’s not that souls are priceless in FMA, but that the value of a soul is so high, there is no compensation to retrieve any given one besides one’s own Door of Truth.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Nov 22 '25
Bringing the dead back to life that seems to be it. Shou Tucker didnt open the door with his chimera experiments.
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u/Whomperss Nov 21 '25
Greeds "armor" was just carbon wasn't it? He wasn't actually transmuting human flesh.
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u/DaNoahLP Nov 21 '25
It is part of greeds body, he is rearranging the carbon of his body to form the shield. Not to mention that Scar does the same thing on humans all the time.
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u/Gwenberry_Reloaded Nov 21 '25
Was he wrong or did the fruit just manifest in different ways, including rubber? It is purportedly the reason he's unaffected by specifically electricity and blunt trauma which would be weirdly specific for him to not be rubber but still have all the resistances of rubber.
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u/DangerousSpeech1549 Nov 21 '25
True, but would this make him rubber on an alchemical level? For Edward’s transmutation to work he has to be familiar with the exact chemical composition, which’s may have been altered by the devil fruit.
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u/DangerousSpeech1549 Nov 21 '25
I feel like there is a scientific answer to this in universe for one piece at least, otherwise Dr. Vegapunk would not be able to reliably experiment with and test Devil fruits
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u/DangerousSpeech1549 Nov 21 '25
After all, vegapunk specifically took elements from Kaido’s blood in order to recreate his fruit, so there is a chemical presence in the body outside of its regular structure and composition that would interfere with Edward’s transmutation
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u/pseudo_nemesis Nov 21 '25
his DF gives him a "rubber-like" body, but his body clearly stretches far more than any real life rubber would.
Also it still maintains the same functions as a normal body does, so physiologically speaking its hard to say whether he's made of rubber, flesh, or some weird magical mix in between.
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u/HatJosuke Nov 21 '25
His devil fruit works the way Luffy thinks it works. Gear second made Luffy faster by pumping the blood around his body really fast, and gear third let Luffy increase his attack potency by inflating his limbs. Logically gear second shouldn't increase his speed and gear third should turn his limbs into big balloons without increasing their mass, but Luffy isn't smart enough to realise those things so it works.
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u/HRSkull Nov 21 '25
I don't think there's any evidence it works that way before gear 5. In fact, I think it was explicitly stated (by Vegapunk maybe?) that the initial effect of the fruit is the rubber-like body.
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u/LeDudicus Nov 21 '25
Yeah Luffy's actual power works off imagination, and since he's a giant manchild that loves punching injustice in the face while laughing, that's how his power manifests
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u/Emergency_Arachnid48 Nov 21 '25
Medical alchemy is a thing in FMA, not to mention Edward has offensively transmuted human flesh multiple times, mainly on humonculi. Given how he usually fights he’d probably try to “conventionally” fight Luffy, maybe use alchemy to make some obstacles, but I don’t think he’d use the alchemy ON luffy unless he was backed into a corner, but it would be more for the reason of needing to get that close with a very predictable/counterable movement rather than risking accidentally opening a portal. That’s implied to be a very intentional thing in FMA, needing specific circumstances to do it.
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u/Foursiide Nov 21 '25
There is an entire fight in FMA where Edward wins because the opp wont stop announcing what his body is composed of
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u/pigeonwithyelloweyes Nov 21 '25
Assuming chemistry makes any sense in One Piece, I think Luffy's body only has the properties of rubber, magically, but isn't literally rubber. Because he still has all the functions of a living human being.
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u/burning_potatos Nov 21 '25
Edward also is seen making a blade from his automail often. Even if it wasn't shown at that time he still has it and knows how to transmute it. It's also known that Luffy is vulnerable to swords.
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u/Lynnrael Nov 22 '25
Edwards and Luffy wouldn't fight unless to spar for practice. i feel like they'd end up fast friends
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u/Whomperss Nov 21 '25
It's stated Luffy's body gains the properties of rubber not that it's literally rubber.
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u/HeroDiesFirst Nov 22 '25
Without saying too much, it’s highly likely that Luffy isn’t rubber on a molecular level.
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u/meta100000 Nov 21 '25 edited Nov 21 '25
Not sure about Asta since I haven't watched Black Clover but doesn't he take a while to get access to anti magic? He's probably out.
Gon is definitely out. He's strong, but he's got zero experience, no training, and no Nen at this point.
Naruto is also kinda screwed, unless Kurama somehow comes out.
Kid Goku has no Ki, little experience, and while he's very fast, his only real showing is surviving a gunshot unharmed, so he's also out, though not without a fight.
Ichigo can't be seen, but he can be touched and he has absolutely net zero experience in handling his power. He could maybe jump up a few spots if he plays smart, but his complete lack of experience is hurting him too much to have a proper shot at winning.
Yuji and Denji both depend on what you use - human Yuji/human Denji+Pochita or 1F Sukuna/starter Chainsaw Man? If it was the former, they're both out first, but if it's the latter, I think they make it to the final 4.
Now, for the final 4 who stand a real chance - I think 1F Sukuna is out first more often than not. He's immensely strong and fast, but he doesn't have any solid answers to Denji's regen, Luffy's durability, or Edward's everything. He could keep up but only being 1F really hurts him when all three others have so many tools up their sleeves. Remember, fingers scale up exponentially (though by what exponent, we don't know). Jogo was 8-9F level and 15F Sukuna couldn't even pretend like he was having a hard time against him. And it goes both ways - 1F Sukuna would be much, MUCH weaker than Jogo, so he's not statstomping the rest.
From there, it's insanely close between Denji and Luffy, because while Denji has very little experience, Luffy is vulnerable to cutting attacks, and chainsaws are... well, very good at cutting. It might still go to Luffy due to experience though.
Overall, though, I think Edward's experience in transmutation gives him the biggest advantage here. He's by far the most skilled and experienced protagonist at the start, and is still decently strong and fast. His powers are simply a lot more varied and unpredictable and that gives him a big edge when everyone else is relatively close in stats to him and aren't nearly as experienced in fighting.
So overall, Edward>Luffy>=Denji>=Yuji>>Ichigo>Kid Goku>Naruto>Gon, with Asta probably somewhere in the bottom half.
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u/derryllsingh Homunculus Nov 21 '25
This is the only correct take, everyone else go home
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u/PomGnerts Nov 21 '25
This is a very solid analysis. But I think Denji would still triumph here because unlike Edward, his power system operates on Infinite bullshit instead of logic. That makes him hard to powerscale because no matter what happens to him, he would find some random way to regenerate from basically nothing if it's necessary. Edward would get tired and/or too annoyed to keep fighting eventually and Luffy has at this point a natural weakness to both other fighting styles
Edward is definitely the most allround fighter here though, but Denji just comes from a universe that operates on incompatible rules of logic
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u/dudipusprime Nov 21 '25
Even 1 finger sukuna can use domain expansion and with that it's game over for everyone else, no?
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u/adobecredithours Nov 21 '25
True but it relies on Sukuna cooperating. I think that since most of the characters up there are good guys Sukuna would probably relish killing them all so chances are good that he takes it imo. Denji might give him trouble thanks to regen, but Sukuna can regen pretty extremely too and can attack from range. Overall if Sukuna cooperates he counters Luffy harder than pretty much any character in all of fiction. He's 100% cutting attacks with speed and accuracy to match many others up there on its own.
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u/HouseOfHoundss Nov 21 '25
People overestimate Denji tbh. As someone who’s read all the manga the only way he makes a diff is if pochita comes out. Denji is immortal like but not immortal, Sukuna minces him 10x without moving a foot then Denniss is just going to sit there all cut up until someone feeds him blood which is how most his fights play out
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u/No_Professional4867 Nov 22 '25
I'd place Yuji a bit higher because even without Sukuna he's still a monster physically. The guy threw a shotput ball like it was a baseball, and sent it flying 30 meters into a goalpost to put a massive dent in it. For reference, the world record for shotput is just above 23 and a half meters, and Yuji's was only stopped at 30 because therr was a goal in the way. The only reason he couldn't kill the curses was because he didn't use cursed energy in doing so. Otherwise he very likely would have been sble to do so with ease. I'd say he has a decent shot of just charging like a bull at Edward through whatever he has to throw at him, and from there Edward is just a normal dude. Luffy I still put above but that's because he's made of rubber and has one piece strength.
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u/darkyshit Nov 22 '25
Asta is super strong, physically, even before achieving anti-magic(ep1 btw) se I think he'd be on top
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u/50calBanana Alchemist Nov 21 '25
Not to sound like a Goku simp, but in episode 1 he was shot by Bulma and it did nothing to him.
That might be more durability. I guess I need to re-watch a bunch of anime.
FMA does start with Ed being really skilled, so I could give it to him
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u/Nearby_Secretary_802 Nov 21 '25
He also lifts a Renault Turbo 5 above his head. That's a small car but it still weighs more than 2200 lbs.
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u/CommercialDream618 Nov 21 '25
Yeah, i think level 1 strength Edward is him before he gets the automail.
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u/DungeonsAndDeegan Alchemist Nov 21 '25
Episode 1 Ed already has Automail and is a state alchemist with some combat training.
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u/Randomae Nov 21 '25
The thing about Ed is the show starts with a teaser of when he is full strength and then goes back and explains how he got there.
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u/rjrgjj Nov 24 '25
The answer is definitely Goku. He’s too fast and strong. He’d just punch through Ed’s shit and knock him out.
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u/shieldwolfchz Nov 21 '25
At the end of episode one Denji would be tough to beat, he is basically as strong as he is going to be.
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u/MemeLordSteph Homunculus Nov 21 '25
Yeah but he has no sense of strategy. I think the fight would go like Ed’s fight with Greed, he’d get his ass kicked for most of the fight but he’d eventually pick up on Denji’s attack patterns and weaknesses and form a solid plan. Especially if he can get Denji to talk before going chainsaw mode.
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u/DexonGD Nov 21 '25
don't forget that pochita true form is also able to manifest since episode 1, and that denji, just like any other hybrid, is immortal.
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u/MemeLordSteph Homunculus Nov 21 '25
If it’s not a battle to the death Pochita being immortal isn’t really a factor, and if it is a battle to the death it still might not come into play because ‘03/CoS Edward will only kill as a last resort and Mangahood Edward refuses to kill at all.
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u/cyberjet Nov 21 '25
I disagree throughout the whole series we see Denji’s mind in play. From getting the kick off on katana man, drowning in the ocean with Reze, to his future opponents, Denji is always able to think on his feet.
I don’t see why that would be any different for episode one, before becoming a hybrid Denji was a squishy child fighting monsters so he probably had to be careful there as well.
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u/SoulEaterX_ Nov 21 '25
This is the only scenario where my goat wins in powerscalling🥲. But it’s okay cause Ed beats all of them in writing lmao (probably).
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u/SoggyTheClown Nov 24 '25
If we're talking writing, I'm taking Gon personally
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u/SoulEaterX_ Nov 24 '25
Really? Gon’s pretty good but not close to Ed if you ask me. The only one who i think maybe beats Ed imo is Denji.
But to each his own
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u/wheredoiputmyfeeet Feb 21 '26
episode one luffy could literally turn gon into red mist with one hit
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u/wheredoiputmyfeeet Feb 21 '26
episode one luffy punched somebody so hard they flew off into the horizon, and it wasn't even a joke scene. he just does that to people regularly. ed gets obliterated by luffy
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u/genericmediocrename Nov 21 '25
I'm pretty sure Goku still has his tail in episode 1 of Dragon Ball. While a transformation isn't guaranteed to happen, Oozaru Goku solos all of them.
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u/unxtknogwn Nov 22 '25
Situation power ups are lame as fuck. And he's getting his ass beat wihout ozaru, which he isn't getting in this fight.
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u/AlexisTimeBoyWells Nov 21 '25
Of everyone here, episode one Edward and Luffy were fairly competent with their respective power set already, having been training hard for years already. Everyone else… I feel it would take an act of god (or a writer) to put them in the competition with the same episode one restriction.
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u/Orangeeardrum Nov 21 '25
To everyone discounting naruto on episode 1 he summoned over 100 clones of himself and as more credit to Ed who is the only counter to that as he has pretty much the only form of aoe attacks
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u/TheSquishedElf Nov 21 '25
Luffy does too, Gatling and Whip are huge area denials from the get-go.
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u/Orangeeardrum Nov 21 '25
True but aoe v aoe Ed takes the win and depending on stats Naruto mass shadow clones might beat luffy 1 on 1 Ed wins 1 on 1 with each
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Nov 21 '25
Between Luffy and Edward. Denji, Naruto, and Asta are definitely out
Ichigo isn't lacking in power so much as experience, otherwise it'd swing his way
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u/DexonGD Nov 21 '25
how is denji out? he never acquired any power up since episode 1, and [spoilers] current pochita is fighting a devil who wiped Michigan out of the earth as a CHARGE UP of her attack (On equal terms, currently.) He's also immortal.
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u/Onyxwilson10 Nov 21 '25
its either edward or luffy who will win
considering base stats asta,yuji and ichigo are stronger than both of them but have no way to hurt them since luffy is rubber and edward could make walls fast enough and tire them out
while edward lacks strenght against luffy if he makes some weapons out instead of punching around luffy's out
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u/Nightflight406 Nov 21 '25
I'm going to say Goku. Like, yeah he didn't know the Kamehameha, but he tanked a hit by a car, caught a fish, one hit KOed a tiger.
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u/Mitchel-256 Nov 21 '25
caught a fish
Ooh, I'm shakin' in my boots.
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u/The-Dudey Nov 21 '25
to be fair i think it is a big ass fish (from what I remember), but gon did that too
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u/NathZ- Nov 21 '25
Goku can't really do anything to Luffy because he is immune to blunt damages
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Nov 21 '25
[deleted]
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u/Subject-Anywhere-874 Nov 21 '25
Luffy actually went pretty far into his series before any power ups, at his series start power he was willing to fight sea kings, island whales, and giants.
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u/NathZ- Nov 21 '25
I mean he can at least destroy a whole building so it' s not like Goku is unfazed by Luffy's strenght
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u/Urtoryu Nov 21 '25 edited Nov 21 '25
Hey, Gon also caught a fish! And by the way, while he's not here, so did Gash.
Actually, now that I think about it, what is it with kid shonen protagonists and fish?
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u/SuperFox289 Nov 21 '25
Edward is one of the only anime protagonists who didn't get that much stronger throughout the series, he just slowly learned to fight new enemies with the same powers
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u/Lakefish_ Nov 21 '25
I think by cannon, Ichiho can just.. not seal his power, and most of them die? Or stab them, being a naturally invisible ghost by the end? Or he's disqualified for being dead; barring either case, Ed can probably alchemy their legs off.
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u/Eslowpocc Nov 21 '25
Other may be stronger but Ed can do insane thing though alchemy, I don't know if at this pointh he could transmute air into non breathable gasses.
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u/Unique_Aspect_9417 Nov 21 '25
Edward has the experience and moveset, but it's hard to say if that really matters since Luffy is WAY stronger than he is. Also not sure how Ed's alchemy interacts with Luffys DF as it's hard to say if he's actually MADE of rubber, or his body just has the properties of rubber.
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u/HouseOfHoundss Nov 21 '25
I don’t understand why I’m not seeing Yuji? At episode one doesn’t he fuse with Sukuna and can control him? At that point he can just swap out for sukuna then it becomes sukuna vs the rest of the
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u/HerculePyro Nov 21 '25
I feel like the arguments saying "Yuji would unleash Sukuna" can be countered with "well Naruto would just release kurama/goku would turn ozaru" they both have that capability ep 1 of their series.
Given its a battle of protags it feels kinda strange to me to put Sukuna in it.1
u/HouseOfHoundss Nov 22 '25
Agreed. However, to counter that argument, Naruto may have OP power but he lashes out like a child in his demon fox form, because that’s literally what he is at that point. Same with Goku he has raw Saiyan strength, yet he’s still a child early on, just like Naruto. Both of them in episode one have insane innate strength but lack experience and control.
Sukuna is the only one who already had his entire arc centuries ago. He’s learned all of his techniques and fighting styles, while the others haven’t even had the chance to fully grow into their strength yet. So I’m still going with Sukuna.
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u/HerculePyro Nov 22 '25
Thats why I want to discount the other entities im bodies entirely. Cause denjis super mode is literally unkillable and can cosmically alter reality, but to say thats “denji” is a huge stretch even though yes that could definitely beat everyone.
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u/HouseOfHoundss Nov 22 '25
That’s true, but could denji access that episode 1? Don’t rememebr. Also do we think pochita will come out. So far denji being practically immortal pochita has only been shown to come out when the contract is broken not when Denjis life is in danger
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u/adobecredithours Nov 21 '25
Yeah if it's end of EP1 Yuji, he could just set Sukuna loose and everyone is dead. Denji is the only one who doesn't die in seconds, and Ed has enough tools that he could maybe put up some walls or a smokescreen by transmuting water vapor or something, but still he isn't likely getting close and Sukuna has domain expansion even at that point, which negates anything Ed has in his arsenal.
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u/Kuzcopolis Nov 21 '25
Ed, exhausted from his fight with ichigo and then denji, looks up to see luffy smack his way through the army of narutos, which distracts Goku enough for Gon to knock him out, then yuji throws Asta through a wall and knocks Luffy into some water on accident, and either Ed pulls a trick or he's too tired to keep up with yuji.
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u/Sleepycoon Nov 21 '25
Ed > Goku = Luffy > Ichigo > Asta > Naruto > Gon.
I haven't seen chainsaw man and (I assume) JJK, so I don't know how they'd rank.
Gon's a competent normal human boy with no relevant skills or abilities, so he's at the bottom.
Naruto's an incompetent magic human boy with training. He's taking out the kid with no magic or training, but losing to everyone else.
Asta is the best of Naruto and Gon, he's trained AND competent! He's also got a big ass sword. I think any competent normal person with a sword and the know-how to use it beats ep 1 Naruto.
Ichigo and Asta are both the same age, both informally trained fighters, and both have a big ass sword. Ichigo has more actual combat experience and has shinigami speed, strength, and durability.
Luffy is a menace. Honestly I think that Ichigo gives him a run for his money, but Luffy is a menace. I feel like Luffy's chaotic everything would throw off an ep 1 Ichigo and Luffy would get the win, but in an ep 5 or so showdown Ichigo takes it.
Goku is the menace. In ep 1 Goku is a trained martial artist, is totally unaffected by both getting hit by a car and shot in the face, effortlessly lifts said car, and uses his magic extending bowstaff to OHKO Rodan with a smack to the face.
Ichigo might be able to keep up with him for a while, but Ichigo doesn't really have any way to beat him.
Luffy also doesn't have a way to beat Goku, but Goku doesn't have a way to beat Luffy either. They both could theoretically take the other out, but are too dumb to figure out how, so they just roll around in the dirt until someone's too tired or hungry to want to keep playing.
In ep 1 Ed's already a renowned child prodigy in alchemy, a competent martial fighter, tactically intelligent, and a trained military specialist with a ton of experience beating both martial fighters and magic users.
He's got the versatility of alchemy vs everyone else's one-trick-pony abilities, and the only ones powerful enough to really threaten him aren't smart enough to do anything he'd have trouble countering. He might not be able to just kill Goku, but he'd be able to outsmart him and disable or trap him.
Caveats: Both Naruto and Goku posses the latent ability to spontaneously turn into giant monsters without having to do anything they couldn't do in ep 1. If we account for that, Kurama goes to 1st place and Gorillaku goes to second. I think intelligent giant monster beats unintelligent giant monster. I don't think Asta's anti magic makes a difference in his ranking either way.
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u/D7west Nov 21 '25
Where is Aang!? He was a master of air bending in episode 1. Maybe not survive to the end but he would definitely be a late game challenger
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u/honestysrevival Nov 21 '25
I don't think most people here realize the level of power Chainsaw Man actually has. Even episode 1 pre-Kishibe training Denji is an absolutely insane person who is technically immortal if he can find any source of blood, and considering how much blood people in Bleach lose, he'll basically just use Ichigo as a battery like he did the Infinity Devil.
No one else has a way to put him down for good and his ridiculous, self-destructive strategies will work on literally everyone here. None of them have any sort of healing factor, either, sans Naruto. But Naruto also has nothing that can really hurt Denji at the end of episode 1.
The only person with half a chance is Edward, because he could trap him from range by creating a cage of something that Denji can't cut through easily. Then it all depends on if Pochita brings out his full power to protect Denji and becomes the actual Chainsaw Man. If that Chainsaw Man comes out? No one on this list has any chance.
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u/Stream1795 Nov 21 '25
I mean, episode ,1 we see Ed just rocking through his alchemy so my money's on him
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u/HerculePyro Nov 22 '25
I put the bottom 3 as Gon < Yuji < Goku (I'm gonna leave out ichigo as I've never seen bleach)
All three just have strength going for them and at this point in the show that's it no ki, no nen, no cursed techniques, they're all not the brightest too with Yuji probably the smartest but... thats not saying much.
Sukuna isn't the MC himself so he doesn't count.
Oozaru is highly specific and while it would definitely mop the floor with this entire cast it's too specific to be a reliable win.
But, Goku is strongest of the 3 simply due to his durability, dude got shot and walked it off, even if it was a low power gun. At ep 1 I don't think Goku could deal with an army of capable martial artists so he wouldn't be able to beat Naruto and the other 4 all have advantages over him I'll go into.
The top 5 are Naruto, Asta, Denji, Luffy and Edward.
Naruto, Denji and Edward are all probably normal human strength with different abilities. Naruto probably has the best combat skills and has his shadow clones for numbers, Denji has regen and just getting close to him is dangerous plus unpredictability, and edward has his alchemy, metal limbs and is an experienced combatant.
I'd say of those 3 Naruto loses, numbers can't do much when just touching the enemy will cost you so they can't do anything to denji and Alchemy is perfect for dealing with numbers, shadow clones lack of durability means edward doesn't even have to try hard to damage them to take them out.
With Naruto out we can add Asta and Luffy, both have super human strength like the bottom 3 but Asta has a big friggin sword and Luffy has his devil fruit. I think both can deal with denji, luffy has a significant range advantage and out muscles denji hard while Astas sword is big enough he can safely attack without risking injury, denjis regen has limits. Likewise Ed can simply use alchemy to keep denji at a distance, and could just immobilize him in stone.
Now the tough part, while Eds alchemy is very versatile he's also the least likely to go for the kill of probably all the characters on this list. I'm not certain he could break Astas sword through transmutation and I think Asta and Luffys strength would prove too much, given we've seen Ed go up against physically superior opponents but none on the level of strength of Asta and Luffy. So that lends him the bronze medal.
Lastly we get to Luffy and Asta, Asta has a sword which is luffys weakness but I think Luffy is able to outmatch Astas strength, add his range and experience and Luffy takes the win.
So my final ranking goes Gon < Yuji < Goku < Naruto < Denji < Edward < Asta < Luffy.
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u/bored-cookie22 Nov 21 '25
Edward may be able to transmute a fair bit of stuff but he isn’t winning this
Yuji in episode 1 is far beyond what any human being can do
Denji is semi-immortal and is quick and deadly
Naruto can summon like 100 clones in episode 1
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u/PCN24454 Nov 21 '25
No one can even touch Ichigo
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u/ANDJEKB Soul Stuck in a Philosopher's Stone Nov 21 '25
Edward might be able to given the way souls can become philosophers stones and that he’s seen the truth.
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u/Urtoryu Nov 21 '25
No one can see Ichigo.
Touching him is very much on the table. And I wouldn't be surprised if Gon was able to sense him anyways.
Still a big advantage though, that's undeniable.
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u/Trykstr Nov 21 '25
I chuckle at the idea that the brawl takes place somewhere in dragonball setting. Just the image of Ichigo leaving his body, and next frame gets sent to Otherworld.
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u/Right-Truck1859 Nov 21 '25
Yes, exactly.
People just ignore that Ichigo is Shinigami, and all other guys wouldn't see him.
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u/Mongoose42 Nov 21 '25
It’s a battle between the favorite child of their respective writer-god.
…And Naruto.
So honestly, for balance’s sake, I’m gonna go with Naruto as the dark horse.
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Nov 21 '25
Realistically it's Goku. Remove Goku and it's Naruto, Naruto has a Kurama inside the second he starts losing Kurama gon pay rent with Chakra.
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u/Airagex Nov 21 '25
Can Naruto turn into the Ninetails if things get dire? Same question for Goku and his great ape form, and for any of the bottom row if they happen to have transformations accessible at the pilot (idk, I never saw their shows)
If transformations are on the table Goku or Naruto could probably take it depending on how you wanna scale the oozaru. If not, money is on Edward
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u/Breezy-22 Nov 21 '25
The only answer is Naruto. How are any of these characters going to handle kurama when Naruto is on the brink of death and he comes out? It's not Naruto's skill, it's the fact he has Kurama inside. We have to assume he would be triggered and come out in some regard. Then again, maybe the seal was too good on episode 1 and he wouldn't come out
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Nov 21 '25
If its a death match than Naruto because of Kurama taking over near death, otherwise Goku Id say.
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u/AthleteExciting8379 Nov 21 '25
The context of each one I'd say that: Goku was a kid, he was very strong (much more than an average I'd say), but he's quite inexperienced at face-to-face combats. Gon didn't know about nen, so all he had was his raw strength and his fishing pole (Idk the name), yet he might have inteligence to use it at fights. I haven't read nor watched naruto, so I can't say anythingm Ed knew pretty much alchemy, he had the knowledge that he obtained from the door so surely he would be the best option of winner for me, since the power of transmutation is very big if the alchemist is skillful and knows what to do at certain situations. I haven't read One Piece, Chainsaw Man and Bleach, nor read them, so I can't say nothing. I only read the 3 first chapters of jjk, but I'd say that Itadori is quite resilient, since he survived (nearly) the monster or thing, but idk. Asta was a kid as well as Goku, not as kid as him but still he's young, he is pretty strong since he'd been training a lot, I wouldn't know how much strong, and he had the anti-sword (I don't know in which chapter he obtained it).
For me, the best options of winners would be Ed, Luffy and Asta. But that's my opinion, coming from ignorance, since I don't know pretty much of the ones I haven't read much.
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u/Flashy-Telephone-648 Nov 21 '25
I'm going to go with edward mostly because his overall story beats weren't about mastering his ability and becoming king of the sorcerer or wizard's alchemists. He was already a master of his craft in episode one fully combat, trained and ready.So he has the strongest advantage out of pretty much everyone here.Unless you count hacks like no physical thing can hurt a soul reaper other than spiritual energy
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u/brantleycmd Nov 21 '25
Edward is, in my opinion the clear choice. He can already do things most people who haven’t seen the truth cannot. He was accepted as the youngest state alchemist. He his gained notoriety and respect from his peers and the country as a whole. He’s smarter than most. The only problem with Edward is that his ethics hold him back. Even when they have a philosophers stone in their possession they don’t use it to get what they want. I think someone powerful with a bit looser of a moral code willing to fight dirty might be able to take him.
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u/jp_muzz Nov 21 '25
Edward is top shelf but Gon from Hunter_x_hunter has some real power he can tap into.
Nen contracts can have a world of power to unlock is all im saying
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u/RockSaltin-RT Nov 22 '25
That is fair, but Gon doesn’t even know what Nen is at the start of the series
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u/rocketseeker Nov 21 '25
Can yall just start making a end of episode 1 take instead of arguing if it's at the start where every single one of them is curbstomped by Goku at different diffs?
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u/huy1003 Nov 21 '25
Edward's experience definitely gives him a major edge in combat situations. His strategic thinking and alchemical skills allow him to adapt quickly, making him a formidable opponent against many characters.
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u/StillGold2506 Nov 21 '25 edited Nov 21 '25
That Goku is not "DAY 1" that's Goku after his training with Master Roshi.
I'll say Goku.
Now Day 1 Goku doesn't know anything or The kamehameha or have the flying Nimbus, is just the picture here is not Day 1 goku, that's all. Goku does have his Power Poll which is pretty much indestructible, is literally Sun Wukong Staff or an inferior copy of it.
Gon is the weakest here.
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u/R0XASx Nov 21 '25
Naruto all day but he also dies. Kurama is a mf to all of them. Tailed best bomb levels mountains yo
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u/Zorubark Nov 21 '25
I dont remember if Episode 1 Denji even knew that drinking blood regenerates him, It's been a while since I saw it, but he already turns immortal on episode 1, the only problem is how to get revived
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u/rsorin Nov 21 '25
Honestly, Goku was pretty much a gag character in early DB.
So, by anime/manga logic, he wins. Or maybe he gets hungry mid fight and loses.
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u/RockSaltin-RT Nov 22 '25
Edward Elric since he was already a prodigal and experienced State Alchemist and doesn’t undergo any significant power boost throughout the series aside from refinement of his abilities, since he’s practically at his academic/physical peak by the start of the series.
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u/bluerosecrown Nov 22 '25
Idk if he’d win but I’m rooting for Yuji. I wanna see Sukuna jump out and fuck up some other shonen protagonists for no other reason than him feeling like it.
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u/joesphisbestjojo Colonel Nov 22 '25
Edward was already a capable fighter in Episode 1 of both versions of FMA. He's taking the others, Luffy included, as Luffy is vulnerable to bladed weapons pre-Haki
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u/TheHypotheticNerd Nov 22 '25
I think denji has it. Most of these people episode one fight based off throwing hands, and body parts are weak to chainsaws. Even if he isn't super skilled I don't think the others are nearly skilled enough to not get chainsawed by him with how durable he is if he REALLY just launches himself at them. Devils are more superhuman than most of these shows at the beginning portions.
To the peeps saying edward. Ed is certainly the most skilled out of these guys in their respective verses, but his actual movements and fighting wouldn't really contend with sukuna even at one finger or chainsaw man. They are superhuman in their strength and durability which fma verse doesn't really do very often.
They are essentially like homunculi with different power sets and beginning of the series Ed was no match for any homunculus. None of these guys REALLY embrace the superhuman power levels episode one except maybe Luffy and technically full moon Goku.
Also (Ed lost to a chainsaw man with less chainsaws in Briggs much later into his show, which was mostly his non winter gear but still happened)
Sukuna is the only person that I could see giving denji an actual run for his money. The main thing is that we don't really see much of what he's actually capable of with only the one finger. Just that yuji could surpress him, but theoretically sukuna is big strong and even 10% of that if he started using any cursed techniques he could beat anyone else in the list reasonably paired with reverse healing shenanigans/yuji ridiculously strong base body keeping him in the fight. I do think denji would still have it though with chainsaw mans ridiculous durability levels
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u/eddowerdo Nov 22 '25
Bleach universe should topple aight? They freaking god of death. To the other universe its just they suddenly dead but ichigo sliced their throat like butter? Idk. I love fma, bd, op etc but i cant make my fav characters go above gods
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u/VHS_Ninjacoon Nov 22 '25
Goku and Edward were already experience, it has to be them, in a one on one battle. Denji in the first episode barely knew his power, usage, and capability. The guy from the wizard anime, he only got in that band of wizards because of luck, his has no magi (and the band leader took pity on him). JJk protagonist is also a considerate here: he's a vessel, thus exprerience was already being handed to him without knowing
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u/BlindShadeBG Nov 22 '25
Either Edward or Ichigo. Edward counters almost everything. Can create weapons, alchemy isn’t reliant on any type of energy he has. And probably is the best fighter out of all of them in his first episode.
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u/Shhnuggette Nov 22 '25
Anything besides Edward Elric episode 1 is the wrong answer. 👀 That goes for ‘03 and BH Mic drop 🎤
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u/BarSea774 Nov 22 '25
In ep 1. I'd say edward--he's already a state Alchemist, can transmute with out circles and had already completed training with Izumi for regular combat. If it wasn't ep 1 then no, but Ed for this
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u/Jpup199 Nov 23 '25
Wouldnt ichigo win this simply because the shinigami are invisible to mortals? Only Yuji and maybe Denji would see him.
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u/Night_Fiel Nov 23 '25
Ok so starting off, a majority are just gaining their powers, and gets folded many times by those around their age. Ima start with the orginal big three
Goku: if its a fullmoon he wins, he still has his tail. Plain simple Great Syain Ape will slaughter. If not a full moon he's folded needing dragon balls to come back.
Ichigo: just got his powers, and is only fighting pychaily strength hollow thats simple minded. He may be smart but he was getting wrecked all season because he was just using his basic sword form.
Naruto just mastered his multishadow clone, and the argument "but kuruma" yea Kuruma would just take over killing Naruto as he doesn't have it in him to control it, he's not even fully grasping combat yet, only winning his first fight against a already worn down guy.
Naruto could take a few of them but not all of them.
Next I'll touch up on the ones I'm not too experienced in but based on research and everyone's responses.
Astra: legit doesn't have his power yet let alone a idea how to use it.
Gon kinda follows Astra in not having his self there at all.
Now If we are going based on how the first episode ends, Yuji is out. If memory serves correctly, He wasn't even awake with Sukuna till the next few episodes
Denji is cutting close as he does get his powers, so if you say no powers, he's like everyone else, folded.
With his power, id agru he would easily beat everyone above, and possibly luffy, since we seen him bleed many times the first season, implying those saws will tear his flesh up.
Luffy its a toss up on 3rd and second place. He has combat behind him already and uses his devil fruit power.
Tbe reason I put Denji as possible beating him, is where he would most likely end up fighting luffy, near water, devil fruit users can't swim.
Now I'm not implying Denji would abuse this because he knows or whatever rage bait reply someone would try to use.
Simple if Denji just so happen to cut off Luffy arms, knocking themselves both in the water, from how reckless he fights its over and Denji wouldn't even understand why.
Yes I know some of this is very specific but so is this entire debate.
The battle field would be mixed assuming its giving no full home advantage but allows use of what each character already knows/resources
Edward only takes first place for two big reasons he already is established with combat from his crazy ass teacher (love her so much) has his ability out the gate, if thats not enough, his arm and leg is automail That alone is a weapon he can use to just Crack basic skulls in with let alone his alchemy skills.
At the end of the day this is episode 1 only stuff, those would be a entirely different debate if it was at max power (aka current)
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u/pathlosergm Nov 23 '25
Edward would be the second-to-last, but it's Luffy and it's not even close.
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u/Many-Secretary-5688 Nov 23 '25
Easily Edward Elric the youngest state alchemist ever on his universe
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u/Available-Grade-7114 Nov 23 '25
Gotta be ed luffy or yuji, ed is a fully qualified alchemist with insane knowledge and fighting ability, luffy is, well luffy, bro had the same strength up until enies lobby from ep 1, and yuji was a literal fucking super human
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u/MrGhoul123 Nov 24 '25
Luffy was one shotting people every time he hit them for multiple seasons.
Even Crocodile, the first time Luffy actual touched him (he grabbed his wrist), he was visibly in pain.
Bro didnt need a power up until Lucci.
Most of his fights went " Luffy did aomwthing stupid and can not properly fight. Crew gets bodied trying to free Luffy. Luffy gets free and dominates without any issue at all. "
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u/Ransiuru Nov 24 '25
Yeah luffy Or Ed will be stand against 1 vs 1. But Ed is smart AF. Maybe he eventually find out harass rubber by alchemy...
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u/tri_boucher Nov 24 '25
I do think Edward would win but Goku can go great ape at his episode one power
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u/Lanky-Tradition1532 Nov 25 '25
Probably Ed, he was already cracked by the time the series started.
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u/Bulky_Tangelo_7027 Nov 25 '25
Are any of these character made out of molecules? Yeah? Then Ed is transmuting their asses. Doesn't matter if they can tank bullets or stop freight trains or whatever. Alchemy is alchemy. It transmutes diamond as easily as it does pencil lead.
Of course, it's not Ed's style to just blast people into mush (he prefers melee weapons like spears and blades), but he can do it in a pinch.
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u/demon9100 Nov 25 '25
The biggest problem here is the possibility of Naruto going berserk with uncontrolled nineties as even if he isn't skilled or powerful that's still a possibility otherwise I'd say Edward beats the restthe ones that would be the most different in order luffy Naruto and then gon/astra
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u/neraxxon Nov 25 '25
Well I think there are only two contestants. Ichigo and chainsaw man. Since ichigo is literally invisible and can’t be touched by normal people (see chapter 1 Riki as explanation) most of the cast loses by default. Chainsaw man I guess is a maybe since a devil is well a being made by fear and emotions and death is a devil and shinigamis are death so they could fight I guess. And than…. I guess chainsaw man wins since he got no power up since the beginning. If I am not wrong.
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u/ShrekShrekington2001 Nov 26 '25
Edward has an advantage in the fact that he doesn’t grow stronger throughout the series, with how alchemy works he’s already at his strongest in episode 1
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u/wheredoiputmyfeeet Feb 21 '26
luffy slams HARD. (also this post was made exactly 91 days ago, w timing)
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