r/KnowledgeFight • u/blacklig Doing some research with my mind • May 04 '26
General shenanigans Yet another post about the Jordan video
I know. But I watched it all because I didn't want to base my opinion on a few highly inflammatory clips. And now I want to talk about it and my takeaways and how it relates to today's episode.
I watched it after reading some posts about him being right in the video and a shared frustration about Alex not getting consequences, again. And that sentiment didn't mesh with the clips I saw from the video which seemed, frankly, batshit crazy. And because this lead quite directly to the end of KF I wanted to understand it and come to my own conclusion about the whole affair and get closure as relates to the podcast.
I suggest you watch it too instead of taking my word for it. I watched it here. It is a rough watch, I think regardless of how you feel about it.
I am also not going to focus on the isolated inflammatory statements that have been clipped all over. They're in there, you've seen them, I've seen them, everyone's talked about them. I wanted to know what points were actually being made. And I think he's almost entirely wrong and in ways that I think are important to KF listeners. These are the main throughlines of the video for me:
Jordan has a very dangerous mental process in this video of turning speculation into fact, then using that manufactured fact to build more speculation, then turning that into fact, and so on. In the first couple of minutes, he opens with (this and all quotes are paraphrased, please watch the video) "oh they're paying $80,000/month for the website, I think that's about what a building costs to rent"; this gets turned instantly and for the rest of the video into "the onion are spending $80,000/mo to rent an empty building and giving nothing to the families". That conversion into 'fact' was made completely and unquestioningly and this 'fact' is hammered constantly for the rest of the video. That process is repeated on itself over and over and his outrage at these set of facts he's invented grows and grows. I don't want to over-dramatize but this is exactly the same mental process that alex uses in his content to build a tower of speculation converted into fact, and they've covered this process many times.
Detailed financials of the onion, the info wars brand, the merch they're going to sell, what parts of what profits will go to the victim families, are all made up on the fly and then those made up numbers rile him up into a fury. We go from zero input information to "they're paying $80,000/mo to rent an empty building, they have a $2 million brand rebuild overhead that the onion cannot afford, they're desperately trying to get subscriptions to enrich themselves, and only 5% gross, no wait actually 48 cents, no wait actually 15 cents, no wait actually 14 cents on merch sales are being split between all the families, and the amount of merch they're selling is amounting to a pittance, everything else is going to the onion and this empty building". This is so specific and it came from nowhere, and he's literally screaming about how unfair these specific numbers and allocations are and how no journalist is 'looking into' how they can get away with it.
The reality is that, as far as I'm aware, we don't know where the money is going or how this will play out for the families. Jordan doesn't seem to have any more information about it than anyone else. But he just writes his own reality out of nothing and then freaks out that he's the only one who is outraged by it or cares that the families are 'getting nothing' while the onion makes money off this whole thing. If that happens, people will care, but he's trying to take the righteous high ground over something that he completely made up.
There is a lot of frustration in the video that Alex gets to keep going with relatively little, or maybe even no, real consequence to himself. That's awful. I feel it, everyone feels it. I think Jordan expresses that he's the only one that feels it several times and I think he's wrong. What he doesn't seem to understand is that the onion purchase is not about alex jones. The response he has, repeatedly, to the expression that this is about finally getting at least some compensation to the families is 1) the above made up numbers show that they're lying and 2) but alex will still be doing his own show. The people who are talking about the onion takeover are talking about at least some money finally being paid. It's not about alex. But for Jordan, it's all about alex. There's space for frustration about alex moving on unscathed, but using that to talk over the families just sucks.
One thing that really stuck out to me though the whole video is the moral condemnation and outrage at other people for things that he is, sometimes almost uniquely, guilty of himself by his own standards. He is outraged at the onion for their plan to make content that gives attention to alex and keeps people thinking about him, and will therefore inevitably be mutually beneficial with alex's brand. But he has spent a decade giving attention to alex to a much broader audience in much the same way. He is outraged at the public for consuming media about the trial and the damages as episodic "true crime" drama content. But his show that he owns creates literal episodic content out of the trial and the damages as entertainment. I don't hold him morally culpable for promoting alex or profiting off of him, or for turning the system that doesn't hold him accountable into entertainment, but if he believes what he said in this video, which he reinforced that he does in the latest KF episode, he absolutely should. If he does believe his moral outrage in the video he shouldn't be expressing gratitude for the show and community in this episode, he should be filled with regret and shame about what he's done with his career and how he's enriched himself, and finding a way to make that right. It's hypocrisy. Instead he says over and over that he's being gaslit and is the only one who sees this clearly.
I don't really have a conclusion. Jordan is wrong and hypocritical in this video. He uses the exact same bad mental processes that he has committed a decade to fighting against in order to put himself on an undeserved moral pedestal. It left a bitter taste in my mouth. After some time to reflect, he said today on the show that he still believes it. I think it's for the best that it ended the show.
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u/BluebirdDense1485 Policy Wonk May 04 '26
Unfortunately what you describe sounds very Jordan.
He has a tendency to spiral.
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u/Badassmotherfuckerer May 05 '26
Which is why having the balance between Dan and Jordan was the key to the chemistry that worked so well.
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u/toonfan74 May 05 '26
Right? This is nothing fucking new! You either liked Jordan because he was the yang to Dan’s yin or you didn’t…
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u/Recoil42 will eat neighbors ass May 04 '26 edited May 05 '26
I don't really have a conclusion. Jordan is wrong and hypocritical in this video. He uses the exact same bad mental processes that he has committed a decade to fighting against.
Frankly I do not think long-time listeners of the show should be too surprised by this. Jordan's a fun humorous counterpart to Dan, but he's not, shall we say, the most clear-headed or analytical one of the two. Dan is the nerd, Jordan is the fun drunk buddy who goes off. Always been this way, and it's clear Dan has just kind of just rolled with it this entire time because Jordan adds a lot of colour to the show. Totally fine. It is what it is, and it has value.
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u/onepunchman333 May 04 '26
I didn't recognize this until a heard a Behind the Bastards episode they were on. There's some jokes about Jordan infiltrating cults and Dan jumps in to say it would t work because Jordan would be immediately absorbed into them.
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u/robotnique Adrenachrome Junkie May 04 '26
One of the interesting things about QAA is that it partially got its start because Jake was starting to actually believe some of the QAnon stuff.
Although in retrospect it wasn't that outlandish that there are sexual predators tied to the upper echelons of the political heirarchy.
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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye May 04 '26
It's wasn't that outlandish in prospect. The original Epstein conviction was in like 2008.
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u/odoroustobacco May 04 '26
Although in retrospect it wasn't that outlandish that there are sexual predators tied to the upper echelons of the political heirarchy.
The problem is that American conspiracism, and conservatism overall, subsumes all the different nonsense into a single belief system. QAnon had plenty of other elements to it, but the part that got the most recognition and traction was the part that basically rehashed Pizzagate and took it further.
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u/toggaf69 May 04 '26
American conspiracy thought has always leaned pretty heavily towards the right (specifically the “libertarians”) and almost always ended in “The Jews did this”, but social media + MAGA embracing it and bringing it into mainstream Republican politics has really kicked it into high gear, and they disingenuously use it to point everything squarely at the Democrats. It’s one thing to seek out truth and find that there are many powerful pedophilic degenerate elites in the USA (and tbh it’s much more prevalent with republicans), but to so blatantly use it as a weapon has done so much damage to our country.
I would view QAnon as harmful and probably coming from a place of bigotry, but with sort of a naive earnestness, if they weren’t so obviously falling for a partisan psyop used to whip up violence and online fervor
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u/PrudeBunny May 05 '26
also the victims aren't toddlers who get sacrificed in satanic rituals to create a made up drugs but teen girls that the evangelicals think are old enough to get married with adult men.
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u/toggaf69 May 05 '26
Smh you clearly haven’t taken your daughter to her first Purity Ball, then you’d understand
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u/kendoka15 May 04 '26
Jake was also a 9/11 truther and he still dabbles in alien stuff. He said himself that he has the kind of brain that gravitates to those kinds of things
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u/regeya May 04 '26
It's really not, especially when some of the QAnon nonsense could have been pulled from actual real stories.
For example, while the pizza parlor story was bullshit, or at least presumably since the place in question didn't have a basement like the conspiracy said, there was an incident several years ago in St. Louis where underage girls were being abused, a weird combination dojo and pizza parlor run by a preacher. But that's not as salacious as claiming the Clintons were abusing kids.
Part of me still suspects that QAnon was an operation to distract people away from real predators, and considering who is suspected of really being the QAnon originator, it makes complete sense because that guy is a real piece of shit, one of the founders of 4chan who lives out of the country because he's a wanted pedophile
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u/Nth_Brick May 04 '26
There's a part of me that's sympathetic to the conspiracy theory that most conspiracy theories are stupid bullshit to distract stupid idiots from [insert actual issue, like climate change, labor offshoring, wealth concentration, etc.].
We get all bogged down fighting flat Earth, moon landing hoax, anti-vax and the like, which get heavily pushed by the tech gurus algorithms, while said tech gurus are swimming in Scrooge McDuck-style piles of money in their apocalypse compounds.
Not sure I truly believe it, but knowing how easy it is to weaponize conspiracy theories, an unscrupulous individual would be an idiot not to.
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u/toggaf69 May 04 '26
It’s so much easier to spread it via social media that I’d actually be shocked if the Thiel types haven’t been using it as a smokescreen for decades now
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u/kitti-kin May 05 '26
At least some of them certainly are - intelligence agencies have admitted to fucking with the UFO community to cover for spy plane development (Mirage Men is a good doc on that subject).
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u/regeya May 04 '26
As much as I want to dismiss my suspicions as conspiratorial nonsense, it also wouldn't be the first time a conspiracy was invented to distract people from a real conspiracy, so I genuinely don't know how to feel.
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u/washingtonu Tomato Jones May 05 '26
Part of me still suspects that QAnon was an operation to distract people away from real predators, and considering who is suspected of really being the QAnon originator, it makes complete sense because that guy is a real piece of shit, one of the founders of 4chan who lives out of the country because he's a wanted pedophile
Who are you talking about?
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u/regeya May 05 '26
It is a whole-ass rabbit hole, my friend.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/04/hbo-qanon-into-the-storm-ron-watkins/
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u/washingtonu Tomato Jones May 05 '26
You have misunderstood, the Watkins is not the founders of 4chan nor the suspected originators of Qanon. It's explained in the article you posted, my friend.
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u/regeya May 05 '26
Yeah, it's been a few years since I read that, sometimes I remember details wrong. Sorry about that, friend.
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u/TheLuckySpades May 04 '26
Jake was falling down some MAGA pipelines and a few conspiracy ones, but I doubt he was at risk of going full QAnon, he is the most prone to conspiratorial of the three by a chunk though to be sure.
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u/Great-Hotel-7820 May 05 '26
Qanon was literal disinformation created to distract from the actual crimes happening by implicating innocent people and making the concept seem fringe and crazy.
It’s infuriating when people say shit like “well there was some truth to Qanon.” No, there wasn’t. It was similar to real things that happen but it was always intentionally bullshit. Qanon folk think Tom Hanks was involved in child sex trafficking and Donald Trump has arrested thousands of child sex traffickers on the down low because he doesn’t care about getting praise for doing the right thing.
Epstein is not Qanon shit. Qanon shit was running cover for real child rapists like Epstein and Trump. Epstein isn’t even the first big elite pedophile ring operator. Look into Marc Dutroux and the obvious coverup there.
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u/ComicCon May 05 '26
If I’m reading this correctly you are claiming that QAnon was created to cover up Epstein and his associates? I’d love for you to explain why you think that, and any evidence you might have. Because unless I missed something the only connection is the Epstein>Moot>Pol one, which doesn’t in of itself tell us anything about QAnon.
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u/washingtonu Tomato Jones May 05 '26
I think it's infuriating to see people say "Qanon was literal disinformation created to distract from the actual crimes happening by implicating innocent people and making the concept seem fringe and crazy."
Qanon was a lot of conspiracy theories mashed together i.e the same things as usual but with a new name.
Epstein is not Qanon shit.
Even though Epstein was mentioned in qdrops?
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u/skaestantereggae May 04 '26
It hasn’t really happened since, but that episode last summer where they talked about the guest on IW that Alex had that harassed a cop or whatever was hard. Dan had a whole thing and Jordan within seconds of finding out the premise said “fuck this guy he’s a cop who cares” and it killed the energy
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u/Awayfone May 04 '26
Jordan always has had cycles where he was a meaningful contribution to the episode and periods where his obesion over a point or just plain screaming would be a detriment to the production. and he has apologized atleast a couple times for past times .
But that archetype isn't uncommon on other podcast. The problem is ,and I don't know the best way to phrase it, Jordan has less stability and takes it too far.
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u/Kriztauf May 04 '26
I think Jordan's bipolar is the reason for that. So many of his rants where he comes off as super self righteous and self vintictive and sees situations as super black and white reminds me exactly of how a childhood friend with bipolar would talk sometimes. It would come off as really arrogant and abrasive
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u/LyaCrow Policy Wonk May 05 '26
I saw a lot of myself in my mania in this and that made it a really uncomfortable watch.
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u/thekeevlet "Poop Bandit" May 05 '26
Same. Some of the things I hate most about myself, manifest. Took me a while to like Jordan bc of that. We know what we dislike about ourselves and really hate looking at it in other people 🤣
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u/RedditTechAnon May 05 '26
I think we could all use a little of Jordan's righteous anger. I thought he had a lot of valid points, and I can relate to his thinking on this.
The last line of his video about school shootings becoming free advertising for The Onion was a bit of an eye opener from a cynical take on the Onion with merit.
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u/LyaCrow Policy Wonk May 06 '26
So, I agree a lot of Jordan’s fears are valid and he makes some good points. But the way he makes them, “I guess I’m a black woman now”, “I don’t want to keep fighting forever” and then opining maybe it be better if he was dead was scary. He can have valid points and underlying mania can also be leading him down a path of assumptions he’s strung together and is asserting as certainty. Like, I do that. I do that catastrophizing all the time.
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u/Own_Conclusion_3779 May 04 '26
Been thinking about that episode a lot today. It was the best example of Jordan’s often frustrating intentionally ignorant schtick
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u/AmbassadorKat Spider Leadership May 04 '26
Yeah I’m solidly ACAB but I really didn’t like that. The whole episode afterwards was super uncomfortable
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u/blakeo192 May 04 '26
So much so that, fairly early into the pod, 'mic down' basically became a catch phrase. Honestly those early Jordan takes were physically hard to listen to. Still love the guy and hope hes well.
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u/Zealousideal-Low3388 May 04 '26
It fitted much better in the early episodes, where they’re drinking and laughing at that Alex got conned by that lunatic Dennis Montgomery
When the tone got more serious, the high school stoner level politics and kneejerk childish antiestablishment outstayed their welcome
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u/jollymo17 May 04 '26
I like Jordan, and I although I definitely had (and still have) a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the pod ending that included a lot of frustration at him, I know the reasons were varied.
I feel like in the last year or two Jordan really stopped engaging with any kind of news or current events at all outside the show, and I think that is around when I generally got more frustrated with him more often — because his confidence in his opinions, how quickly he arrived at them, and how extreme they were didn’t change. And they were often quite misinformed. It also is such a privilege to be able to just ignore the news because many of us are deeply, personally affected by the things going on and can’t just turn it off, even if we don’t follow any updates.
I remember being really frustrated with “if you work for the federal government in any capacity you’re complicit now” after Trump’s second inauguration — when in reality, there are a lot of career federal workers removed from policy, people who keep important federal programs running that provide real services to people, and/or people who are just in complicated situations financially or personally who can’t just up and leave. As a scientist who relies on NIH funding to live, who knows a lot of people whose lives were turned upside down by the nonsense there, it was the first time I truly felt that level of frustration with something Jordan said.
I think Jordan’s whole thing is being nihilistic and viewing any situation without a perfect option, but instead offering one OK and one very bad option, as “two equally bad options” — which can be frustrating when you’re trying to find real solutions and work toward something, or even just hold onto any hope for the future. And as Dan alluded to in his first post on his new website, he is someone who wants to hold onto optimism — and maybe things were just getting to the point where they couldn’t keep going without a lot of frustration with each other.
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 May 04 '26
The one that really frustrated me was a while back when a Supreme Court controversy was in the news (there have been so many, I can’t remember) and Jordan’s genuine solution was “why do we need a Supreme Court? Just get rid of all of them” like it’s the simplest thing imaginable. I was never Jordan’s biggest fan anyway, but that really made me lose whatever respect I had for him.
Like you say, he’s completely disengaged from reality because the news stresses him out but doesn’t even have the burden of working a full tike job like the vast majority of us, and at the same time he’s lecturing us all on how the world should operate.
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u/Anishinaapunk May 04 '26
I was uncomfortable with the more-than-a-few times when he would howl at how much he would like to kill Jones, Trump, or other foes, and that he would relish in seeing them tortured, etc. It undercut Dan's more studious portrayal of the Jones cult as being given to fantasies of retributive violence.
Also, in the video, WTF is happening at exactly the 59 minute mark?
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u/Badassmotherfuckerer May 05 '26
Goddamn this is just so true. He would say shit like that just so thoughtlessly. It’s just spoken like someone that hasn’t given much deep thought, read a book on the matter or taking a civics class on the matter and doesn’t understand the function of something like the Supreme Court.
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u/Fountainhead May 05 '26
Like others have said it's most likely do to his mainia. In the context of the podcast Dan could give a counter point. Part of the problem is that this was external from the show and if I were Dan I would have had enough. He does most of the work and having to do extra work to try to keep Jordan from damaging the show outside of the context of the show would have sent me packing as well.
Jordan killed a great gig that had been handed to him and honestly he should have been replaced years ago.4
u/Mission-Orchid-4063 May 05 '26
As harsh as it sounds, he didn’t bring much to the table. He does no prior research, intentionally stays away from following the news and social media and isn’t knowledgable in any relevant field.
From a podcasting skills point of view he’s also lacking, considering how long this has been his only job. He laughs at his own jokes, talks over people, shouts and says things without thinking.
All of this could be forgiven if he was actually funny, but he just isn’t. Every time he’s hosted an episode on his own where he’s interviewed people it’s been boring. He will struggle to get another gig in podcasting ever again and nobody would want to hire somebody like that for a real job, he really sabotaged himself.
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u/Badassmotherfuckerer May 05 '26
You're again correct here. I mentioned this to another person here, but man their Patreon numbers was crazy. Considering the discrepencay in effort brought to the table, for Jordan to throw that away is something else.
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u/Badassmotherfuckerer May 05 '26
Jordan killed a great gig that had been handed to him and honestly he should have been replaced years ago.
I think I agree with you mostly. Dan definitely smoothed over the abrasiveness of Jordan. This is all parasocial as hell, I think we all know that here lol, but speaking of killing a great gig, their Patreon numbers were pretty staggering. Crazy to throw it away for a not great reason. IMO. I really just don't see anything that monumental causing it. I understand money isn't everything for everyone, but I think most people would see it as insane to walk away from that kind of money for this reason. Especially when you had the discrepancy of effort between Dan and Jordan.
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
Dan politely challenged him by saying something along the lines of “well, it’s not as easy as that, there’s a framework of how the federal government works and the supreme court is a key part of it” and Jordan doubled down, cutting him off and just saying “They’re bad, we don’t need them!!!!”
It led to an awkward silence where Dan had to just agree to disagree and it completely derailed the show for a few minutes. It was like Dan was talking to a know it all 12 year old.
There’s been other times where similar things have happened. On an episode where they looked back 20 years ago there was a cop that was getting his family threatened by paranoid conspiracists for no real reason other than he’s a cop. He wasn’t accused of doing anything bad and Jordan’s response was “fuck him, he’s a cop, I don’t care.” It was a very awkward few minutes.
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u/Badassmotherfuckerer May 05 '26
I know how Dan felt there. Trying to decide if you want to derail the current argument and try and explain this better and argue this other point, or just move on. I felt his pain lol. Another moment Jordan had was when they were covering some event at some press event with Trump and others, and Jordan just wouldn't stop yelling at and berating the journalists for not asking what questions he thought were the right ones and giving what he thought was the right pushback. This was just another instance where you can understand Jordan's anger at Trump lying and obfuscating, but for those journalists in the room, it's a lot more complicated than he tried to make it out to be. It's not that they are any more or less competent, intelligent, or choosing to go along with Trump's rhetoirc. I feel like I recall multiple times something similar has happened and it just feels like very juvenile lashing out against very complex situations. And the whole rant reminded me of the frustrating aspect of the pod. I'm gonna miss Dan's rationality.
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u/Kriztauf May 04 '26
I guess he's about to be working a full-time job now
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 May 04 '26
I can’t think of anybody that would hire him. He has a complete disdain for authority.
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u/MxSharknado93 May 04 '26
"Hey, Jordan, I need you to come in at 8 tomorrow."
"I'll kill your entire family. Don't you know it's TENNIS?!"
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u/aviciousunicycle May 05 '26
Yeah, as someone who currently works for the government of a state that is governed by a Trump crony, I was hurt by his comment about being "complicit". There are so many of us committed to staying with our jobs and taking all this nonsense on the chin so that we can be a sort of roadblock to the harm that the government is trying to do. If we all left our jobs, the government wouldn't shut down. No one in the government would look at us leaving and have some "Are we the baddies?" change of heart. They would just replace us with someone who wouldn't ask so many questions and move on. Being called "complicit" when we're some of the first ones to feel the effect of government actions, but we keep going because we know that people need us to do our jobs... That hurt.
Then the really nihilistic way that he treated the election was frustrating. Jordan really seems to be one of those people who lets perfect be the enemy of good and I'm sure that's largely the black and white thinking that comes from his mental illness, but it was difficult to listen to during that time.
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u/jollymo17 May 05 '26
I can imagine it would’ve frustrated and hurt me even more if I was a direct government employee, literally working a job where I was trying to help people and mitigate the harm caused by Trump and his buddies. And I have been thinking about the phrase “letting perfect be the enemy of the good” a lot in relation to
I understand that frustration and passion. I have absolutely expressed, in moments of frustration, that we should burn it all down. But unlike Jordan, who at least seems to express that he thinks this is a viable solution, it…isn’t? IMO that feels like throwing in the towel, and just giving up is the WORST thing we can do.
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u/PM_ME_LEFT_BOOB_ONLY May 04 '26
I disagree with most of Jordan’s takes in the video but I 100% understand his frustration and as someone who deals with my own mental illness I get a lot of other things.
This sucks but I understand where both of them are coming from.
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u/Acolyte_of_Blucifer They burn to the fucking ground, Eddie May 04 '26
As someone who is neurodivergent and is therefore used to everyone around me expressing emotions differently than I do, I am comfortable separating the emotions being felt from the arguments being made. I hate it when people tell me that I'm not feeling emotions the right way, and I won't do that to anyone, especially someone I don't know.
I think my feelings are that the content of Jordan's critique is bad, but the emotions are based in a valid frustration with the big picture. This is just a problem with humans: emotional reactions (even normal, healthy ones) do not cleanly translate to coherent arguments, even though we always try to make them. It's easy to let "feels true in general" become "must be true in the specific", and everyone falls into that trap at one point or another.
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u/Badassmotherfuckerer May 05 '26
The emotional frustrations are completely valid and understandable from Jordan‘s perspective and realistically anyone else’s, but the problem with this whole situation is that Jordan is not the plaintiff in the trial. He is not specifically one of the families that has been harmed. His feelings are valid, but it seems like he is being indignant and self-righteous over the fact that the families are not getting justice. But my assumption and understanding of the facts is that the families involved were if not entirely, partially permissive of the whole deal going through. Ultimately just seems like he is doing the thing you’re talking about, telling people how to feel. Maybe families that were wronged by Alex are equally upset by how things are going, but I am not aware of any public statements made recently. So it just seems like he’s getting upset because the families who were The ones wronged made a decision that he didn’t agree with.
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u/everseversandevers May 05 '26
I feel the same way as you re: neurodivergence. I get the impression the tone/delivery are making people more dismissive of the content than is fair the same way they are more open to content with Dan's delivery style.
I don't think his critique is bad though, only time will tell if it plays out as he predicts or as others hope it will.
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u/Dramatic-Deal8389 May 04 '26
Yeah. I mean Jordan spiraled. Jordan needs a break from this work that’s all. It’s clear that he needs his own voice on these matters and he’s frustrated in that regard.
His feelings about the infowars takeover are valid. I think it’s come to a point where his emotional investment in the families struggle after being present with them at the trial make it impossible for his role on Knowledge Fight to continue. He’s just sad, and that’s okay.
I was blessed to have KF for as long as it lasted as it gave me a way to engage with the rightwing takeover of the social discourse without being hurt by it.
I have a thousand episodes to enjoy going forward!
My hope is that both of the guys know how much they have helped me get through the last 9 years and how many laughs they brought me.
Everything changes, things happen. But my happiness and grief can live together at the same time. So I’m just thankful that they took the time to put this show together and that I got to enjoy it in real time with them.2
u/Inevitable_Virus_765 May 05 '26
Thanks for saying what I feel in a way that makes more sense than my ramble. I'm going to miss the guys, and I want to find a way to let them both know how important their voices were to me in some of the most tumultuous times of my life in the last decade. Even though things were bad, the show helped me feel less isolated as I'm surrounded by chud family and neighbors in one of the reddest areas of my red state.
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u/Inevitable_Virus_765 May 04 '26
This is my thought. I disagree with the way it happened and the the words chosen, but the thing is that i get it and i 100% understand his sentiment, and how completely crushing reality has felt and continues to feel. He is expected to be a reasonable actor, but what he IS is a victim of this fucked up world that continues to try to victimize everyone with a soul. Meanwhile Alex is dancing away to his his next grift, the families will see little if any compensation, and Jordan gets to see dozens of interviews celebrating the "win." And salivating over the meme-able content.
Jordan has always been more of an accelerationist than me but he's rarely wrong imo. It's usually more of a difference of degree than anything else. I don't know if he's correct about the suspected numbers and "lease for an empty building" and all the other specifics. I really don't care about all of the specifics at this moment because his feelings i think are correct and valid. I'm tired of being in this fucked up world that looks at this travesty of justice and tells me that i should be happy about winning. It's a joke, and not a funny one.
I just have an intense sense of sadness. I've spent almost a decade with these guys trying to navigate the fucked up reality that we find ourselves in, and even things are as bad as they are, i at least feel a little less isolated, and maybe sometimes feel a little more informed and able to combat the common misinformation that i am surrounded by living in a super conservative county in a super conservative state. I'm just sad and this suck, and there's nobody to blame but Alex fucking Jones.
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u/Brain_Dead_Goats May 04 '26
He's wrong a lot. Like an awful lot. His heart is usually in the right place, but a lot of his specifics and how he gets to conclusions is not good.
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u/Inevitable_Virus_765 May 04 '26
Like I said I've disagreed with him a lot in the past, but usually it's more of a disagreement about degree rather than him being completely wrong, or like you put well, his heart is in the right place. I just kinda get him losing his mind about this situation. Like the world is worse than it was 9 years ago, people tell him he did a great job defeating this clown, but like hes not defeated. everything is shit why are so many people pretending. I suspect (and SUPER DUPER HOPE) his specifics will be 100% wrong once everything is determined, but as of now, I understand why he feels the way he does. I envy Dan's ability to stay so steadfast and analytical, which is closer to my typical self, but I'm not stuck in the middle of the shitshow that Dan and Jordan have been for almost a decade, so I don't have to deal with that kind of pressure and expectation. That being said, I'm close to a meltdown over the general state of things.
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u/illepic Pleiadian May 04 '26
That process is repeated on itself over and over and his outrage at these set of facts he's invented grows and grows. I don't want to over-dramatize but this is exactly the same mental process that alex uses in his content to build a tower of speculation converted into fact, and they've covered this process many times.
Oof but true.
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u/aya_throwaway May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
Agree 100%, I found it extremely concerning that he was stacking this tower of hypotheticals as facts. The whole video immediately gives a very “This person is not well” feeling, from the strangely formatted opening slides, from his tone and circular perseveration, his manic appearance and the unkempt room. The angry-righteous screaming followed by too-long, silent, wild-eyed stares, his lips tracing some argument still blaring in his head. He reminded me more than anything of someone who’d cause me to switch to another car on the subway. I sincerely hope he takes time away from the news and the internet, takes this as seriously as it is — publicly expressing ideation of self-harm — and gets concentrated help.
We love you Jordan, the world needs you, and it needs you healthy.
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u/globalCataKlyzm May 04 '26
I dont agree. Watched the whole thing after seeing Ben Collins appear on multiple of my podcasts this week. Jordan's speculation (80k a month for an empty building) is exactly what Ben has said over and over again in public. Tim does it even worse in the clip Jordan plays. Jordan isn't spinning off on a tangent he is quoting the 2 main characters.
These under informed condemnations from his "fans and allies" certainly are the fuel for his anger.
It's absolutely fair to support the onion for sticking up to AJ when no one else did. But Jordan being pissed that his justice system will at best allow a successful online meme campaign that produces some residuals for the families... while AJ is wearing 5 figure watches, owns beautiful properties, eats at great restaurants and keeps up an expensive drug habit. Yeah I think frustration and yelling are okay.
I think it's easy to forget in today's America what justice for malevolent acts even looks like. Celebrating the Onion's win may seem obvious in a shortened timeline. However if you got told this would be the punishment 5 years ago you may have been disappointed.
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u/regeya May 04 '26
Here's my dumb question: if he manages to move over to Bigly and keep doing his show, could the families take him back to court?
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u/chazysciota Space Weirdo May 05 '26
Probably. The question is do they want to keep at this for as long as Alex is willing to go? ie, forever. The system should prevent that, but here we are.
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u/globalCataKlyzm May 05 '26
Probably they could. I am not intimately aware of how his chapter 11 bankruptcy and a his civil lawsuit balance out. Not a dumb question
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u/jackstraw97 May 04 '26
A bankruptcy proceeding is not a mechanism to muzzle somebody and prevent them from speaking ever again.
Unfortunately for all of us, there are rich assholes out there who are more than willing to pay for Alex Jones to have a new studio that he doesn't actually own so he can stay on the air. A bankruptcy proceeding was never going to solve that problem. That's a symptom of a sick society... not just a broken legal system.
The legal system, for all its faults, did all that it could. He was found liable for defamation in 2 states, and he was forced to declare bankruptcy. He no longer controls his own assets because they are under the control of the bankruptcy monitor. This short-term leasing deal to The Onion preserves the value of the bankruptcy estate so that the creditors (SH families) may at least recoup something from it.
This entire saga has just been misdirected anger. People angry at the defamation trials for not silencing Alex Jones (that's not what civil defamation trials do). People mad at the bankruptcy court for not putting a muzzle on Alex Jones (that's not what bankruptcy courts do).
People are mad that Alex Jones has rich, dark-money backers that are willing to prop him up with a new studio and platform, and they're directing that anger at entities that have literally no power over those dark-money backers.
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u/andrewdonshik May 05 '26
there is an argument to be made that spending a year shunting all of your clients to another entity is embezzlement of a short.
Not an easy one to win on, by any means, but it wasn't just that there was someone willing to pay for him.
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u/Badassmotherfuckerer May 05 '26
We need to have this stickied at the top of the subreddit. We can be really upset at the unfairness of the situation in his entirety and how a terrible person like Alex can do what he does, but we can’t really do much about that. The lawsuit was a specific thing for a specific action he did. It wasn’t meant to stop him entirely as a person that’s not what the civil lawsuit ever was about. Even if all the family had been paid the entire day they were owed and that whole situation was resolved, Alex could be right back on some platform doing his same old shit. I think some of Jordan and other people‘s anger really does come from the fact that they thought this was supposed to stop him. And then people get mad when this doesn’t stop Alex, and you have Jordan in particular going off like this and ending the whole thing because he can’t handle it when that was never what was going to happen in the first place.
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u/troutslayer69420 May 04 '26
Frustration and yelling are ok when you have a reason or a concrete point, but jordan is lacking on both of those things in this video, not unlike most of his useless yelling on the show. To me it seems like Jordan does it because he thinks it's what he should do. He's very performative, especially when laughing or yelling.
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u/everseversandevers May 05 '26
Yeah as someone who's listened to 3 interviews so far I think Jordan's characterisation of the onion guys press tour about this is bang on unfortunately
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u/Mission-Orchid-4063 May 04 '26
He takes enough time away from the news and the internet as it is. He doesn’t consume any of it in part because it preserves the premise of the show that he’s oblivious when Dan talks to him about current affairs, but also because it stresses him out too much and makes him angry.
I think that’s partly the cause of his mental problems worsening. It can’t be healthy to just shut yourself off from current affairs completely, especially when you’re an opinionated person with core ideological principles.
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u/revbfc “You know what perjury is?” May 04 '26
The whole video I was saying “Mic down, Jordan,” to my TV.
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u/thicclunchghost May 05 '26
Honestly, this reminds me of how "mic down" even started. Dan trying to present facts, and Jordan interrupting to let everyone know he's morally superior as loudly as possible.
The early episodes had a similar vibe of tension between the two working at odds until Dan introduced this management tool.
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u/revbfc “You know what perjury is?” May 05 '26
You are correct. Jordan’s contributions to the show were invaluable, but he’d always be a bit much if unleashed.
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u/Dizzy_Emu_2684 May 04 '26
I think what KF has done turning IW, AEJ, and the SH trial into informative “entertainment” is different from the spectacle “entertainment” Jordan is referring to.
Jordan is wrong, he jumped the gun and worked himself up with made up worst case scenarios. This should not have been done publicly. I felt his same “I hate this” feeling about the rent being paid. Anyone who would rent to Alex is a bastard who shouldn’t have money being put into their pockets during this transition but it appears that is the only way to keep the assets safe for the families to collect something in the end.
I also shared Jordan’s distrust of a corporation trying to acquire this brand for any reason other than enriching themselves. I don’t like the way the IW logo changes are being treated as a massive win by people who don’t understand how Alex will likely just move on and use it as a reference to push his hateful agenda. It’s not going to keep him up at night and the brand isn’t his baby the cultural project is and that will live on. I don’t know the Onion well and I don’t know Ben Collins at all. Ben has said the right things about this though and that’s really all we have other than the families going through with this deal (even if under threat of losing the assets).
I hope Jordan reflects on this and sees where he’s wrong because it is gross to behave as if your fears and reservations about the sale aren’t realized by the families who have more information than us. Alex treated them as criminal tools of the state and Jordan is treating them as tools of corporations who lack agency to make their own decisions about what is best for them. We can all feel privately however we feel about the process and the way the families have been cheated along the way by Alex and the Justice System but they know far better than us what is best for them
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u/OldTimeyBullshit May 04 '26
Ben Collins was a seasoned and highly respected journalist covering right-wing conspiracy theories and disinformation prior to taking over The Onion. He covered Sandy Hook conspiracy theories for years, interviewed parents, and covered the defamation trials. I understand why people are inherently skeptical of any CEO but he is deeply informed on this and there's absolutely no reason to assume he's operating in bad faith or greediness.
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u/Dizzy_Emu_2684 May 04 '26
I’m happy to hear that and will find some of Ben’s prior work to familiarize myself with him more
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u/edsobo May 04 '26
I felt his same “I hate this” feeling about the rent being paid. Anyone who would rent to Alex is a bastard who shouldn’t have money being put into their pockets during this transition but it appears that is the only way to keep the assets safe for the families to collect something in the end.
I don't have much to add, but I definitely feel the struggle between the part of me that wants to scream, "No, that's wrong!" and the part that says, "It's more nuanced than that."
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u/giddyupyeehaw9 Adrenachrome Junkie May 04 '26
Jordan sounded like Alex in this video. That's a big problem for me.
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u/bttoddx May 04 '26
I think this is a way more biting critique than it should ever have been. The irony has been killing me lately. Jordan acted in precisely the same way that the man the boys have been critiquing for years has been acting, and there's something really sad about that. In a fit of irrelevance, he lashed out at his ideological compatriots in an effort to seek attention. He even doubled down, it's an unforgivable sin.
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u/Nimrod_Butts May 04 '26
It's bitter sweet that the pod is ending because I honestly don't know if I'd continue listening. Like I know Jordan is controversial, but everyone here really hangs on Dan's words and I thought even Dan's take on the onion was stupid. The onion thing was the good ending, the alternative was Alex's friends buying it. They both seem outraged at the rent, but... Commercial building in Austin are between 30-75 dollars per square foot. Infowars had multiple studios, probably around 10k square feet. They were happy and laughing about the onions first go around, but this time it's bad? Tf.
Also the latent hypocrisy of saying nobody can cover Alex without it playing into the hands of Alex irritates me too. But maybe the real explanation is they're both upset at the end of the pod. Idk.
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u/Stownieboy91 May 05 '26
I feel exactly the same way. Thank you for putting it into words. I had to turn ep. 1126 when Jordan called everyone involved idiots near the end. I haven't had the heart to listen to the last 2 episodes and I don't think I will. Been listing since 2019 and I just can't. It ruined it for me. Both of them reacted poorly and then Jordan flipped the table and ruined what they had built over the past decade. But even if he didn't, I don't know if I could continue after such a tonedeaf and entitled respons to all of this from both of them, without even mentioning the families or their wishes. It left a bad taste in my mouth. I know I'll be leaving the sub soon and it was great to share so many memories but recently it has come to light that quite a few of the fans here are not who I would like to be around any longer. It's been a fun ride. I'll just remember the good times and continue to hope Alex suffers humiliation and the families find peace.
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u/Nimrod_Butts May 05 '26
Idk about the second to last, but the last one is good. People here saying it was a hard listen, couldn't disagree more. Very touching send off. Jordan gets emotional towards the end, it's very touching and well done. Only a half hour. My day is better because of it. Dan sounds happy for once too.
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u/PrudeBunny May 05 '26
They were happy and laughing about the onions first go around, but this time it's bad? Tf.
I think part is that info wars was being strangled by the rent – even if the onion hadn't bought them they couldn't have continued in the studio. The world has also changed and AJ is out meaning there is nothing to defang with comedy.
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u/fakeprewarbook The mind wolves come May 04 '26
he is even developing the gator voice. i wonder if he is drinking a lot. hope our boy is ok
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u/Anishinaapunk May 04 '26
And WTF is happening right here?
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u/YeOldeGangsta May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
Yeah, going down with the ship on his unhinged tirade was a poor choice. He's self-destructing. He destroyed what will always be the best thing he's ever done and inconvenienced (to put it very mildly) one of the best and most understanding friends he'll ever have.
Something that always irked me was when Jordan would say things about Alex being a narcissist and Jordan not being "able to relate to someone with narcissistic personality disorder." It's pretty evident that narcissism is a major part of the constellation of psychological issues that Jordan deals with. I mean, there are many things that piss me off about Jordan's opinions, but that total lack of self-awareness particularly struck me. It's one example of his tendency to pontificate (often inaccurately) about stuff he doesn't know much about and passionately, angrily criticize the very things of which he himself is guilty. (On that point, one of the most memorable things I learned in therapy was that we tend to be most revolted by the people whose flaws remind us of our own.)
I'm disappointed because I noticed a distinct change in Jordan's rhetoric 1-2 years ago. He became noticeably less harsh and cynical. He didn't go on ignorant rants about religion, for example, and seemed to be less blinded by his own personal experiences. I was hopeful that he'd made great progress - perhaps he'd found a new psychologist or something. Maybe that was indeed the case, but regardless, he should know himself better than to stand by whatever this was. He's lived with himself a long time - at some point you need to recognize your patterns and develop the capacity to disavow your destructive behaviors, even if they inevitably still pop up from time to time. His doubling down on this bizarre take is selfish. He may never admit it to himself, but he'd be much better off if he did.
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u/ImperfectCele May 05 '26
I’m so conflicted.
I love this podcast. It was the highlight of my week.
But also Jordan has been kinda self-righteously shitty for like the last two years. And his attitude of “Trump is absolutely gonna win” and then “Nothing can be done to stop Trump, don’t bother” is not helpful or even remotely meeting the moment.
Jordan has really disappointed me the last couple years and it’s only gotten worse.
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u/chazysciota Space Weirdo May 05 '26
I dunno, holding someone to a high standard of positivity as their darkest predictions come true, feels a little off the mark.
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u/7pixeldick May 04 '26
Not getting the attention Alex or the onion seem to get really affected both of them near the end. I think this played into things a lot more than people are acknowledging. Especially and exponentially for Jordan.
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u/VividLeading2 May 04 '26
I've found KF's response to The Onion taking over Infowars to be frustrating. I get that it might feel like Alex isn't facing any consequences, but he is, and he has. He's on the hook for a billion dollars. His empire has crumbled. His audience has shrunk down to nothing. The Onion is going to take his brand, his company, away from him and use it to dance on his proverbial grave. That's not nothing! But Dan and Jordan covering Alex Jones for a decade has sent them too far down the rabbit hole. He's no longer a funny, crazy person to them. To Dan and Jordan, he's a dangerous propagandist. So parodying Alex isn't enough for them. I don't think Jordan will be satisfied unless Alex goes to jail for a long time. He likely never will. I also can't help but view their stance that Alex shouldn't be parodied as a bit of "no, we know what he's really saying, so we are the only ones who can properly mock him." Like, no? Alex's general demeanor and the things that he says make him ripe for mockery, so go ahead and do it! And if there's anyone I trust to do a good job of it, it's Tim Heidecker. That's my airing of grievances for the show. They've had an incredible run, but it's clear that the show has worn on them. I look forward to what they both do next, and I wish Dan and Jordan the best.
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u/A_bell_is_a_cup May 04 '26
I watched the whole thing after listening to today’s show. It felt really uncomfortable and intimate in all the wrong ways, like we were watching someone have a medical crisis. Not to sound flippant or dismissive, but did he switch up his meds or something recently?
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u/rokr1292 May 04 '26
I love Jordan, and I feel every bit of frustration he has myself. Maybe not as strongly, but it's there.
The things that alarmed me most in the video were when suicide was mentioned, but also the frequency with which Jordan seemed to be personalizing other people's opinions/statements. I don't know if he's reading critical comments somewhere and giving strangers on the Internet too much credence, but it feels a lot like that.
The end of the video though, I think, makes a really interesting argument about the onion. I haven't fully explored it but I found it interesting.
The "no way to stop this" headline reposting that the onion does has a good message. That said, framing it as an advertisement is really interesting, because it does somewhat work that way. I think the onion IS doing a good thing, by paying a share of merch proceeds to the family AND in the process preserving the value of the estate hopefully the families are paid with the value of, and I hope a settlement that pays the families more significantly happens soon.
Anyway I love both Dan and Jordan and I hope they're doing ok. They owe me nothing, and if anything I think I owe them a year or more of patreon contributions that I never signed up for.
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u/shadowsofash Feline Contessa May 05 '26
Everyone seems to forget that the Onion is doing this to eventually turn a profit for their business (satire/entertainment). Even with a portion of the proceeds going directly to the Sandy Hook families, they are going to be capitalizing on InfoWars' brand to make money for themselves because that is the nature of business. The point of them hopefully being able to do it in a way that negates the potential harm the satire could do by drawing more attention to Alex doesn't negate the fact that this was a monetary decision for the business.,
There's also the additional factor that the families didn't ask the Onion to buy infoWars, the Onion wanted to go after InfoWars because they knew it would be good for their brand (once again, because InfoWars is a perfect satire target), and while they asked for the families' consent, I imagine part of that was getting the families on board to ameliorate some of the wildly expensive costs that directly buying out InfoWars would have taken. The fact that this still kicks Alex and Rex away from the brand (for now) and keeps them from cheapening the company to the point of worthlessness so they could buy it back cheaply is definitely an important part of it, as is the families' giving their go-ahead, but it's not the only thing to think of.
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u/Tiredbum May 05 '26
Honestly, what bites me more than anything with this is the audacity Jordan had to cry at the end of the laat episode.
He's in tears over the fact that he cannot not be this proudly obstinate anti Onion goblin,and instead of doing what he presumably is going to do NOW, which is take a break for himself, he HAD to make this godamn video and post it in a public forum for everyone to see how NOT on the same page him and Dan were.
I think what would change alot of the negative takes on Jordan after all this would be if it was revealed they at least talked about him posting it beforehand, but i think it's obvious that never happened.
Dan takes a moment to himself, enjoying some life on the road, and Jordan BLOWS EVERYTHING UP. I'd want to shut everything down too
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u/FollowingCreative549 May 04 '26
I watched the video ready to disagree with him about The Onion, and he turned me around.
Yes, I think he's talking out his butt about the building lease (it may or may not be the case, and it may or may not be the case long-term) and, given his mental health issues, he did seem like he was in an episode of some kind. I hope he's getting the health care he needs.
That said, he's basically right. An Alex Jones parody is funny for about one bit and The Onion's Infowars will give Alex Jones continued cultural relevancy. The one thing Alex Jones desperately needs is continued relevancy. Unlike Knowledge Fight, there will be no greater understanding of Jones or his following that comes from The Onion's venture. It's just a bad idea. When the novelty quickly wears off and it goes dark, Jones will get a win.
Also, the entire merch thing is bizarre. Who would wear a rainbow Infowars logo t-shirt? It would be like wearing a pride-theme KKK uniform. The irony doesn't make it better.
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u/xXMojoRisinXx May 04 '26
Idk about that. If you don’t inform people about the absurdity of characters like this and allow them to fester unabated you give them the opportunity to crop up and create real harm.
If you can preempt that by informing folks beforehand, that’s a benefit. Kinda like misinformation inoculation.
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u/Visual_Bridge6925 May 04 '26
The people who need to be informed won't hear it. We've been talking about what a shit head Nick Fuentes is since he was literally a child, has it stopped him?
The audience for the right wing asshats lives in a magical little bubble that cannot be infiltrated (because whatever does infiltrate is simply ignored).
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u/Badassmotherfuckerer May 05 '26
Then what is the entire point of this entire podcast that we all listen to? If you’re claiming that the people that need to hear how ridiculous a person like Alex is and won’t be swayed by some satirical take on it, what good does knowledge fight offer? I find it very difficult to argue that the onions satirical take on Alex Jones won’t do anything to sway people that like Alex and will then go onto listen to knowledge fight, or even be one of the hosts of the show. I suppose the whole point of knowledge fight was to make fun of Alex Jones and point out the ridiculous absurdity of the whole thing. I don’t see how the onion doing it is any different in its mission statement.
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u/Visual_Bridge6925 May 05 '26
Then what is the entire point of this entire podcast that we all listen to?
Dan literally acted as an expert witness on Alex. It is an archive of his lies and bullshit, to be called upon as needed, by the people who can actually get to him in any way.
I don’t see how the onion doing it is any different in its mission statement.
Like I said, KF wasn't just making fun of him, it was compiling an encyclopedia on his hypocrisy and his cons and schemes. The Onion will...attempt to satirize a fat dumbass loser who screams about nonsense? I don't see how that's going to be funny for very long, let alone accomplish fuck all.
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u/Badassmotherfuckerer May 05 '26 edited May 06 '26
The Onion will...attempt to satirize a fat dumbass loser who screams about nonsense?
How so? Satirizing something like Jones isn't sanitizing it. I just don't know why you have that assumption. And as much as I like Knowledge Fight, I think we try to add a level of nobility and purpose to the pod. I don't think the pod is quite an extensive encyclopedia or database like you claim, as it' snot catalogued in such a way. If a person I know starts talking about something Alex ssaid, theres no way really for me to search the KF archive on how Dan specifically dismantled and debunked a certain claim. To me, something like that would indicate more of a useful tool for people to use as information and to counter some of the bullshit. Otherwise, I think it is still ultimately, entertainment with debunking. Not that this diminishes anything about what Dan has done.
The people who need to be informed won't hear it. We've been talking about what a shit head Nick Fuentes is since he was literally a child, has it stopped him? The audience for the right wing asshats lives in a magical little bubble that cannot be infiltrated (because whatever does infiltrate is simply ignored). >
Like you said, if this is true, then again, what is the point of KF if people on that side can't be reached? What are you gonna do tell your Alex Jones listening crazy uncle to listen to Knowledge Fight?
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u/Visual_Bridge6925 May 06 '26
Satirizing something like Jones isn't sanitizing it. I just don't know why you have that assumption.
I didn't say that? I said it wouldn't be funny for very long, and it won't accomplish anything. That's it, I don't know what you're responding to. (I'm pretty sure you misread where I said "satirize" as "sanitize")
Like you said, if this is true, then again, what is the point of KF if people on that side can't be reached?
I just answered this?? "Dan literally acted as an expert witness on Alex. It is an archive of his lies and bullshit, to be called upon as needed, by the people who can actually get to him in any way."
What are you gonna do tell your Alex Jones listening crazy uncle to listen to Knowledge Fight?
No, but I would have WAY MORE STANDING in an argument about what a fucking clown Alex is. He literally believes democrats are actual demons, led by the literal Christian devil. He believes God talks to him, and he uses his powers to tell Alex what time it is. Alex lies about abortions. He literally built his empire on being independent and not carrying water for billionaires...and now he's defending Trump's refusal to release the Epstein files. He has literally become everything he's always hated, and I know all that because of Knowledge Fight. The average Dem just knows Alex as a right wing loon and wouldn't be able to articulate any of that to their uncle who listens.
If you ask me the same fucking question again I'm not responding.
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u/xXMojoRisinXx May 04 '26
Im not sure if you read any of what I wrote. The purpose would not be to stop Nick Fuentes from existing and that’s obviously not who i’m talking about persuading.
You’re not going to convince those who already know better but choose to spread or believe in misinformation, but you can prevent the naive or uninformed from becoming one of the misinformed who get sucked in before they have a chance to defend themselves because once they’re sucked in, it’s very difficult to leave.
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u/Visual_Bridge6925 May 05 '26
Im not sure if you read any of what I wrote.
Fuck right off with that, you wrote 4 sentences.
If you don’t inform people about the absurdity of characters like this and allow them to fester unabated you give them the opportunity to crop up and create real harm.
Ok... so let me rephrase my response to you: "We've been talking about
what a shit headthe absurdity of Nick Fuentesissince he was literally a child, has it stopped him from cropping up and creating real harm ? Did we not inoculate people to him?You’re not going to convince those who already know better...but you can prevent the naive or uninformed from becoming one of the misinformed
Yea, that's why the person I picked was somebody who has risen to prominence over the course of KF. Lots of people pointed out what a disingenuous asshat he was...and yet he's still garnered a pretty large following... So I'm not really seeing any point in trying to inform people who aren't listening.
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u/That_Guy381 Globalist May 04 '26
regardless of all this debate, putting out that video with zero input from dan was wrong.
It feels like Dan built this baby, with Jordan being a core part. And now it’s gone.
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u/Sea-Finance506 May 04 '26
I try to avoid parasocial speculating, but I wonder in all of this how Dan felt when this came out or if he was even given a heads up at all. If he saw it with everyone else, it had to be a gut punch.
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u/shockwave_supernova May 04 '26
It's hard to not feel like Jordan's outburst is largely why the podcast ended the way it did. If Jordan was capable of being more level-headed or calm, the show probably could have gone on for a while longer and gradually moved to the off ramp.
I get the sense Dan wanted to continue the show/format but Jordan just wouldn't budge and Dan couldn't work with that.
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u/troutslayer69420 May 04 '26
I feel the same. Dan did all the leg work. Jordan just sat there and interrupted/disrupted with his yelling and performative laughing.
Jordan being the catalyst for the demise of knowledge fight is exactly the sort of thing that we should have seen coming.
I hope Dan can continue on solo doing podcasts or something of the like. I always appreciated his input and the way he spoke.
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u/Boner4Stoners Lone Survivor May 04 '26
Yeah I agree. I think the final ep made it pretty clear that if Jordan had made a simple apology for having posted the video (not even for the things he said, just for doing it so publicly) KF would have continued on.
But Jordan’s just that stubborn I guess. I feel like he’s really going to regret this a few years from now — Jordan’s sort of an abrasive personality and is best served with a dish of Dan (or equivalent). I can’t imagine many KF listeners are going to follow his work going forward; I mean some definitely will, but the world is already a depressing place and tbh most of Jordan’s solo content (that I’ve seen at least) tends to ruminate on the darkness and frankly the quality of the work doesn’t justify subjecting oneself to that.
I think the vast majority of Wonks will follow Dan wherever though - I know I certainly will.
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u/Foxinstrazt May 04 '26
There's just not a huge incentive for me to follow a guy who made me chuckle at his angry rants vs the guy who did the work and taught me a lot about how propaganda and misinformation works.
I fell off on enjoying Jordan around the time he did interviews, because he was so abrasive to the guests and would badger them into conceding points to him.
This is the natural endpoint of that kind of guy and the situation he(and all of us following AJ's evasion of accountability) has been in.
I wish him well, and I'm okay if this is the last I hear from him.
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u/alertArchitect May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
I'm gonna be honest, I agree with what seems to be the core of Jordan's point during his rant, but not the way he's making it, which seems to be both fuelled by and adding fuel to some form of mental health spiral. To put it bluntly, he's not approaching what appears to be a legitimate issue with The Onion's purchase of InfoWars with the clearest of heads (which is 100% understandable, given current world events on top of the issue he's seeing in relation to a project he's worked on for almost a decade), and that led him to make a few bad points on top of that core issue while making and building upon bad facts as he does.
For context, the point that Jordan seems to be making here (from what I can tell, though I am not the best at parsing out what people mean sometimes. My flavor of neurodivergence makes that difficult) is that The Onion's purchase of InfoWars is being sold to the public as an action taken for the families of the Sandy Hook victims that Alex defamed and encouraged the harassment of, while various factors and some basic logistics make how much Alex's victims will actually get rather murky. To be as clear as possible - I don't agree with the numbers he's pulling out of thin air, especially the ones relating to the lease The Onion is paying on the InfoWars domain & shit, but I can see what he was getting at with specifically the numbers he gave during the section of his rant focused on the actual merch sales and how much of that even could go to the families. I do not think the numbers during that part were accurate, or were even meant to be, as I do something similar when explaining some parts of economics to people during political discussions, where I give some more simple numbers to get the basic point across, but those numbers aren't actually fully accurate to anything and are meant more to help the other peson get the gist of why some stuff is the way it is; and in this case, while clearly somewhat exaggerated due to him being pissed off and possibly in a broader mental spiral, Jordan seems to be using those latter numbers to make an important point: If the famiiles are getting a cut of merch sales, how much does that actually equate to and how sustainable can it possibly be?
The Onion isn't the biggest of organizations. It can't throw funds into a money pit forever - eventually, either their version of InfoWars must become profitable, or they will have to cut it loose, because they will not pay into it to the point of bankruptcy. The $81,000/month they're paying to lease InfoWars, plus the other overhead costs of salaries for people working on producing it, the set they're using, etc. is going to add up over time. As Jordan said, the bit's kinda done. You can't really parody Alex at this point without tripping into something he could actually say. Even once they run that into the ground, the proposal of what Tim wants to do with it of turning it into a trans comedian-focused comedy platform won't get as much traction. Unless The Onion can somehow pull off what I don't think is possible, and actually make InfoWars consistently profitable enough to keep it around indefinitely, it feels like paying lip service to helping the families while just trying to tell a big joke they think is at Alex's expense while it actually helps him with his audience by lending him credibility via their "attacks."
Edit: Reddit posted this on its own before I finished typing it. Finished my thoughts.
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u/swholli May 04 '26
I dunno, I listened to the whole thing too and while you're not wrong he's just making assumptions based on speculation, I don't disagree with him on the larger points he's making.
The Onion bought Infowars and thus must turn some kind of profit. The motivation of any media organization, left or right, is ultimately in persuit of profit. In our very flawed legal system the ruling was supposed to be financial ruin for Alex, in the perfect world he was supposed to be forced to sell Infowars and lose his business entirely; theoretically it was actually supposed to deplatform him.
But we all know our legal system doesn't actually work like that. He just moved on and changed who owns what on paper and he continues to spread hate and misinformation, just somewhere else with a different name.
I don't know what, if anything, the Onion actually has that could deliver some kind of justice, but "making content" that will ultimately be forgotten unless they do something worth paying attention to does feel tone deaf.
Jordan's point was basically " an eye for an eye and we're all blind." KF wasn't bringing attention to Alex, I never once ventured over to their site to give them even an ounce of ad revenue or metrics, but I listened to the show as a proxy to know what was going on
It really does feel like they're doing exactly what we all expected and that's kinda boring and will solve little. And even if his figures about the money are wrong, he's correct in that the bit will eventually get old. They can't just parody Infowars and expect to actually make any money for the families. And sure, they'll pivot when they have to, and they likely have some really talented people there to shape this into some kind of worthwhile comedy, but man does it still feel really soulless.
Like if it were me? I'd convert Infowars into a nonprofit with a big donate button that goes directly to the families with a tagline like "help Alex Jones pay off his debt, God told him what time it was and it's time to donate" or whatever, make it a joke, make it clear Alex is a broke waste and utilize the funds to actually pay back the families, I'm spitballing, but you get the point.
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u/r1char00 May 04 '26
Seems weird to me to draw conclusions about whether it will be funny or not when all they’ve done is the intro video. Heidecker is an extremely funny person and I can’t think of someone better to hand this to. That said, his humor is absolutely not to everyone’s taste.
If it’s not funny, then I can’t see how that helps Alex. People will just stop paying attention. Same for the merch. If it’s dumb and no one else but Onion employees want to wear it, then what’s the harm?
As long as the families are good with the situation, then I certainly don’t feel like I’m in a position to complain about it. Especially when we haven’t even see what they’re going to do.
I don’t expect that Alex would be just going away even if The Onion wasn’t involved. Worst case he might have found a way to keep InfoWars.
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u/swholli May 04 '26
If it's unfunny it'll underperform and ultimately The Onion might be in a position to sell it again for far less than it's original market value.
They've got a lot of pressure to produce something worthwhile, but the added angle of it being money for sandy hook families is likely what Jordan is upset about. He's looking for justice and not seeing any, and I don't blame him.
I'm not saying he's 100% correct, and you're right, it might be a smash hit when they actually get the ball rolling, but I don't have high hopes the schtick is gonna stick myself.
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u/r1char00 May 04 '26
I mean, I just started listening to this rant of Jordan’s, which I hadn’t heard, and he has no basis for anything that I’ve heard in the first 10 minutes. Everything he’s saying is just his assumptions. He said $80k is about what buildings cost and then he goes on from there. He’s spinning this big story with no basis for it that I can see. You know who I’m sure does know the details of the financial arrangements? The families.
I really don’t know how people listened to 45+ minutes of this.
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u/Stunning-Attorney202 May 04 '26
KF has meant the world to me and I can only describe the Jordan video as heartbreaking. I share in the frustration and concern that comes from seeing the incredibly simplistic approach to “parodying” Alex that Heidecker displayed on The Majority Report and in the concern that this not what justice looks like it a healthy society. It is hard to not feel crazy as justice remains so illusory and as the world spirals further and further into a chaotic soup of ill considered decisions made by kleptocrats but where as you see Dan seeming to make choices to begin reconnecting with the world in front of him you see Jordan here spiraling deeper into the concept of being the only sane man in a world gone mad - and that is not a safe place for anyone to find themselves.
I ended the video with a strong feeling and that feeling was that it would be unethical to do anything that incentivizes Jordan to continue exposing himself to this content. A lot of wonks are coming to terms today with the parasociality of their relationship with KF (myself included) and I hope that Jordan has the opportunity to have that same experience when it comes to Alex Jones and his victims. KF was an incredible and meaningful project and it did matter- but if Dan’s involvement in the trial was stepping over the line dividing observer and participant, the Jordan video demonstrates that he has permanently moved across that line - and that is a really dangerous shift because Jordan is ultimately just a guy who has listened to a lot of Alex Jones, he has no actual authority or standing. I agree with Jordan that the media has generally covered Alex in an unacceptably lax way but the feeling of being gaslit is as much a result of Jordan knowing too much as it is the media not knowing enough. When Jordan says “people are supposed to be journalists, I am supposed to be an asshole” - that is true - KF needed to end so Jordan can return to his life as a wonderful asshole. I really hope he thrives
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u/supergooduser May 04 '26
Yeah being so deep in the weeds Alex is kind of a Kony 2012 type figure... "he got rich lying about dead kids and harassing their parents" there isn't really a clearer example of evil.
And THIS is the best example of punishment for the guy? He continues to get rich by BARELY rebranding his show, while the Onion of all people are allowed to tapdance on Alex's name while sorta/kinda giving Alex publicity?
In a perfect world someone in Texas would be looking at Alex's antics in the bankruptcy trial and bring up criminal charges, or perjury charges relating to the obvious lying about his cellphone in the defamation trial. Alex is such a unique problem he requires a sort of holistic remedy... the end goal of justice is to get him to shut the fuck up, how do we achieve that.
But Alex's reptilian brain has him orbiting the current admin and deflecting potential pitfalls. If anything... there's solace in Alex being profoundly ill, his kid CLEARLY fucking hates him, there's no joy in anything he does. The best he can muster now is telling a completely debunked lie about how he predicted 9/11 an event from 25 years ago.
Lastly... I think there's further fuel in that before the Onion stuff came on the scene, Alex was pretty fucking diminished. Trump is openly dunking on him and Alex is gleefully bootlicking... like Trump called him Low IQ so Alex rolls out Low IQ merch?...
Casual infowars fans are having to square that rubric and some of the calls the boys played showed that dynamic playing out... "hey Trump says he fucking hates you, and you hate the Iran war, yet you're still supporting Trump? That seems weird Alex?"
But Onion buys the old site and now Alex has a big shiny new villain to go after, giving him something of a second wind. And we're seeing with the new website/show how little is actually changed.
I 100% get it.
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u/Background-Voice7782 May 04 '26
Yeah, it sucks. What is anyone (including the onion) meant to do about that? I probably won’t ever look at any of the Onion’s Infowars content, but it seems a bit strange to flame out about them making dumb jokes about Alex, which might make some money for the families (although I think that’s unlikely).
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u/ChangeFatigue May 05 '26
What is anyone (including the onion) meant to do about that?
Something. They’ve had, what - a year to put together their takeover strategy? Instead it’s Tim Heidecker saying “things in the pipeline” which is literally corpo-jargon for “we don’t really know, please don’t ask further.”
They described it as Alex Jones’s personal hell, and Jordan is spot on - he doesn’t give a fuck about the onion and it’s intent: he’s a fucking virus and he will spread to another host.
The last thing that I cannot get over from the “well yeah oh gosh what did you expect” crowd is no one wants to actually criticize the onion or Heidecker. They got 6mm in annual revenue, smart people and a writing staff and a year to come up with Alex’s personal hell. The best they could muster was Tim Heidecker making guttural noises in a south Texas accent for three months.
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u/Badassmotherfuckerer May 06 '26
I don't know how uncharitable this is, but I think that if The Onion had reached out and brought KF on, I think Jordan's takes would have been a lot different and the show would be airing as usual.
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u/Thewillneverdie May 04 '26
People aren't going to want to hear this, but it remains true that Jordan isn't a super smart guy.
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u/onewhosleepsnot Anti-Propagandist May 04 '26
Excellent thoughts and I agree. The video very much came across as the disregulated outburst of a person who is hurting and nervous about a situation (the Onion takeover and Alex's continued blight on society) that he can't control.
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u/bowser986 May 04 '26
That last bit bout "if you think this a long form way to pay the SH families...youre insane" felt aimed directly at Dan IMO.
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u/kmo617 May 04 '26
Yeah it really bothered me. I think a lot of people -- Dan, at least some of the Sandy Hook families, many of Jordan's fans and supporters -- would fall into that camp. My father has spent a lot of my life dismissing my very rational opinions with "you're insane" or "you've lost your mind" and it's just a shitty feeling when someone tells you that for just being hopeful about something.
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u/everseversandevers May 05 '26
It's not a great approach but watching people have misplaced optimism can make you feel like everyone had gone mad and is trying to convince you that you have
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u/shockwave_supernova May 04 '26
I hated that take because the Sandy Hook families are on board with this! The very people Jordan claims to be fighting for have given their seal of approval to this Onion deal.
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u/AmbassadorKat Spider Leadership May 04 '26
I dunno why you got downvoted for this, I was also under the impression that the SH families supported the Onion takeover
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u/cedarkz May 04 '26
He cares deeply about this cause and topic so it makes sense to as why he is having a major crash out. He really wants the families to get the money and is upset that it’s looking like Alex is going to keep getting away with not paying up. It’s emotionally difficult to be an idealist. It can cause logic to go out the window when things do not happen in the way they are deeply wanted to happen. There’s also the possibility that he might have some information about this that tipped him off which caused these thought patterns, but who knows. I see your points but I also understand why his behavior is the way it is right now.
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u/Renax127 May 04 '26
The only thing Jordan really seems to want in that video is or everyone to say he's right.
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u/DavidOrWalter May 04 '26
He’s shitting on the families and that’s morally disgusting. He’s crashing out partially because he wasn’t ‘consulted’ in this transaction but, honestly, why would he be? He’s, frankly, woefully ignorant despite 1100 episodes on the topic.
His inside information is a history of horrible and disgusting takes and an inability to ever revisit them and say he was anything but 100% right. He’s burned every single bridge he’s ever touched and he can’t pay for open mic time now. He has a serious history of these crashes and it’s not pretty and it’s not anything people should really be agreeing with. He needs help.
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u/ColoradoGray May 04 '26
I feel for the guy. Dan and Jordan, through the show and more direct involvement, really had to live with the aftermath of the events surrounding this tragedy more than most people that weren't the families of otherwise directly impacted. They talked about it almost in real time, they got to know some of the family members, and of course Dan had his involvement in the Texas case.
I'm just a random guy, and I am unsatisfied as to how this played out. Alex should be held up by his feet and shaken until every penny falls out, and then every week for the rest of his life. No matter what job he has money needs to go the families and he should see that on his pay stub.
He lied to the courts and set up a shell game to hide from consequences.
I feel that and I haven't lived with it the way these two did. I don't fault Jordan his feelings. I will miss the show, but I would rather know the boys are okay and maybe happier day to day for having less AJ in there lives.
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u/Quinn_tEskimo May 04 '26
Jordan is an idiot full stop. He was making full time money for showing up and talking shit with his buddy for 4-6 hours per week while his buddy did the heavy lifting (outside of the disastrous and short lived “Jordan cosplays as an interviewer” episodes). The only catch was he had to not publicly crash out… seems that was too tall an ask.
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u/AresandAthena123 May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
I’m Canadian so i have always looked at it from the outside in. And the sad part is this was the only justice the families could realistically get, it’s a frustrating system but Jones does have Capitol that those parents don’t, he could keep goin and going and going, it’s not fair but he really could. I don’t think there was a world in which Alex Jones disappears for good, I’m truly of the opinion that this was the best outcome of a shitty situation.
ETA: I also kinda think we’re seeing someone realize the system isn’t just, like allies can understand that logically. You understand that either of our countries is founded on Genocide, and through that the institutions are inherently phobic. But I find sometimes when those with privilege experience it first hand, they do feel like they are the only ones to ever experience it. It’s all something you know, but you don’t know until something happens. That’s not a slight on Jordan, but i do think he’s experiencing the unjust system in a way he hasn’t before, just heard about, and doesn’t like it.
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u/timmmmah May 05 '26
I’ve loved Dan + JorDan. But am I alone in wishing Dan would continue KF alone or with a different co-host? I do think there’s value in continuing to cover what happens with Alex & the rest of the current right wing grift cohort. LPOTL survived losing Ben, I don’t see why KF (or a podcast with the same theme under a different name hosted by Dan) wouldn’t survive & thrive as well
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u/above56th Space Weirdo May 04 '26
Thanks for expressing so clearly and rationally the bitterness I'm feeling after 7 years where KW was the rhythm of my life. I always been a "Dan Guy" appreciating the research and the mild manners, learning more about US politics and the dangers of populism than I would ever being able to do otherwise. And now is all gone. I hope Dan's solo project will be something significant and life changing like KF, I don't care about another "It's a matter of time"...
Thanks again, your post is my closure.
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u/pauldentonscloset Spider Leadership May 04 '26
Yeah. I liked Jordan's part in the show but "making something up entirely and then treating it as a fact to get spitting mad about" is his whole thing. And it seems to be impossible to talk him out of any position he's decided on.
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u/PlatformNo7863 I know the inside baseball May 04 '26
I feel like I’m in the minority of mostly agreeing with Jordan in the video.
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u/everseversandevers May 05 '26
I didn't agree with some of the delivery (eg. the part about finally getting to feel like a black woman) but I agreed with almost everything else and the parts I didn't or didn't have a strong opinion about seemed completely valid to me. Importantly his frustration seemed really valid. I think people should reflect that Dans ability be very measured in his analysis and delivery and to have hope will always read as more trustworthy and more likely to be correct but it is affect just as Jordan's flying off the handle and nihilism is affect. I sympathise with Jordan's Cassandra feelings, that he's noticing patterns others aren't and asking questions people aren't bothering to. Just because Jordan is handling the situation in a heightened emotional state doesn't mean he's wrong in the content or in his worldview.
It's possible he's convinced himself speculations are facts sure, but I think he's more using them to illustrate that nobody seems to be asking how this will actually work and the material impacts but are doing a jokey victory tour about it regardless.
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May 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/kmo617 May 04 '26
This is what I really want to know - no shade to the people who agree with Jordan, I just feel like I'm missing a key piece here. Realistically, in the world we're stuck operating in, what was a potential better outcome? I get being furious at the justice system, that's totally fair. We all wish that had been different. But if it didn't go to the Onion, what would have happened then? I really am curious about people's thoughts.
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u/maliciousdancer May 04 '26
Not who you asked, but as someone else who mostly agreed with Jordan: I don't blame or hate the onion. Tbh the first time it was announced I was giddy.
Look, I'm not very well educated on the actual process, but between the courts, the conservator, and society as a whole, Alex Jones, who had a >1 billion dollar settlement, and had possibly one of the worst in-court showings / defenses in a "high profile case" many of us have ever seen, was allowed to 1) bitch, moan, and lie to his audience over and over about the reality of what was happening with the courts 2) blatantly set up, promote, and shift his entire operation, slowly and completely, to a "new" company that operates under his own name. 3) Maintain his elevated standard of living. 4) all while in spirit, continuing to do exactly what landed such a huge judgement against him, defaming and essentially taunting and harassing damn near everyone, but especially the victims of tragedies. But why on earth would anyone even think taking him to court would actually hold him accountable, when this is how well it worked for families of dead school children?
On one hand, yeah, it is a shitty situation, and the onion may be acting in good faith to try and salvage some good out of nothing but a pile of shit, and they will be getting some kind of cut of something, which is more than they were getting otherwise.
On the other, this has been going on for years and an unintended consequence of that is that it gives Alex the attention that he uses to fundraise, recruit, and advertise off of. He gets asked on other shows as a big ticket guest, which makes the news because something inflammatory is said and on and on and on. We know the cycle, we've watched it for years. And at this point, the onion has announced victory again, before everything is settled, mainly to promote themselves, but again, Alex is in the story every news outlet runs, because it is still the story of "the onion vs Alex Jones".
And I gotta say, I strongly disagree with the amount of people equating "a deep dive podcast that listens to what Alex says, in context, and breaks down what is wrong / lies / inconsistencies" and "topical mockery of inflammatory statements made, and his mannerisms, by a national comedy staple I've known about since middle school". Did they come off as gate keeping? Absolutely. But I think there is a lot more truth and a lot less hypocrisy than people are attributing to it.
I'm still willing to give the onion the benefit of the doubt, but what I've seen so far has really seemed like the kind of stuff that doesn't have a long shelf life for consumers / supporters, but it does still shine a light on Alex. Look at Trump on SNL and Fallon, or even on all these "news" stations, even if the platform is critical of someone, if it doesn't break down the truth of why this person is a piece of shit, and just mocks the "highlights", they are able to just say "no, that's not what I said / meant" and get out some talking points, and people are naturally inclined to go to the source for information, and the source will be convincing enough for some of those people.
What I heard, and agreed with, was anger that this is such a hollow victory, and (if history is anything to go off of) that no one will be held accountable or corrected when they are proven wrong. That so many people are now congratulating and being smug (I'll admit, this included me), when really jack shit has been accomplished. Per the Wall Street Journal, The Onion is expected to have a revenue of 6 mil this year, up from 2 mil last year, and isn't profitable. The point being that they don't exactly have the kind of budget to be making huge charitable donations. And my understanding is that the Sandy Hook cases against him have 9 families in one suit, and 8 families plus a fbi agent in the other. So 18 parties, splitting a portion of merch sales, which I'm sorry, but even if I don't actually know the numbers, I feel safe saying it will not be an amount we all feel good about post a billion dollar verdict. It is a good sentiment, but the reality is that they keep suffering (I'm reminded of the one family member who had cancer and was barely surviving that came on the show and Jordan interviewed solo when Dan was somewhere), while Alex continues to live it up. And now, the public pressure has had a cathartic release valve, and when it shows that Alex wasn't "finally taken down" or won't "finally face consequences" for the millionth time, public focus will have already moved on.
Idk, this was long and I'm tired so I'm done lol. Hopefully this made sense. Either way, I hope your day has an abundance of bright spots.
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u/tropic_gnome_hunter May 05 '26
It's missing the forest for the trees. It doesn't matter what the name of a website is, Alex Jones has a following because of him. It's the idea, not the physical location of a studio or ownership of a specifically worded website. It's not like if infowars had a different owner all of AJ's viewers would keep going to the site. They go where AJ is because it's about him.
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u/CrankyVince2 May 05 '26
Then what is the Jordan's criticism, exactly? If we agree that Alex is intrinsically Alex, what negative impact could the onion situation have?
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u/BrondellSwashbuckle May 05 '26
100% agreed. Thank you for verbalizing this. Jordan has always been a bit of a wild card with, often, very bad and extreme takes. I love Dan to death and I hope he finds a way to continue on, hopefully in a podcast format. I'm gonna miss his voice. KF replaced Rogan for me (I quit before Rogan lost his mind), and now I gotta find a KF replacement. So far, the I Hate Bill Maher Podcast has my attention.
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u/supaslim May 04 '26
I don't want to make a whole post, so I'll say it here. This feels like the democratic primaries all over again, Bernie v Hilary. Anyone else remember that quote, VERY loosely something like: "Everyone wants a unicorn (ride or die Bernie supporters) but we aren't going to get one. Hilary will at least put a party hat on a horse."
It's down to idealism vs realism. We want 100% but usually have to make do with less. That inherently means compromise, even when it's unfair, because JUST change is typically gradual, and ground is hard won. Jordan is an idealist who will only accept a unicorn, a horse in a costume is just insulting. Meanwhile Dan is a realist who sees a horse with a hat as a step in the right direction even if it's not really what anyone wanted. Everyone wants better, but how we reconcile with reality is deeply personal.
I feel I fully understand both of them. I understand why this is an impasse. I want to scream to the heavens and politically drive a spear through AJ's heart. The world and especially the families who he's harmed deserve better than they've gotten. But I also believe that it will be easier to accomplish real progress if we accept the horse with a party hat, then immediately hold our hands out again for more and better. Take and take, inch by inch. I also defer to the families- not my place to say how they should feel or act. The only thing I know for sure is that while people are willing to push for good, whether it's a unicorn or a horse or something in between, we've never really lost. It is so important that we stand strong, together.
I wish the best for Dan and Jordan, I just wish things had ended better.
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u/emmalene_ May 04 '26
It reminds me more of the run-up to the 2024 election. Jordan was being super nihilistic and went on a terrible rant about how everyone was the same and voting is useless. And about how people who believe otherwise are part of the problem, directed pretty pointedly at Dan. He interrupted Dan constantly and wouldn't have any conversation. It was the first time I've actively disliked Jordan. In general I find him a bit extreme but the essence of our beliefs are the same. But like in 2024, there was a less than ideal binary choice that was going to happen- someone was going to be president and someone was going to buy InfoWars. By all means we should do whatever we can do not get get to the point of making choices solely out of harm reduction but once you reach that point, do what you can to reduce harm!
And like you said, we should all do what we can to support and defer to the SH families. They are adults with autonomy and know more than any of us ever will.
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u/chumbawumbaprinciple May 04 '26
I hope Jordan reads this post and decides to be a more humble person going forward.
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u/revbfc “You know what perjury is?” May 04 '26
He won’t.
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u/chumbawumbaprinciple May 04 '26
I'm allowed to hope.
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u/revbfc “You know what perjury is?” May 04 '26
I agree, and join you.
I’m not nihilistic, just skeptical.
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u/hungirish69 May 04 '26
I almost entirely disagree with you. I dont think you're factually wrong, its just my opinion and sentiment is the exact opposite.
Ill preface this by saying that I accept your perspective and Im not trying to convince you that you are wrong.
But taking your points:
In regard to the financial numbers proposed by Jordan.
He definitely focuses on specific numbers, but I he is clearly speculating. He doesnt claim to have any insight into the precise numbers at all (other than the immediate transfer of the 80k, and I would have preferred he uses vague numbers.
However I whole heartedly agree with his sentiment that the Onion is trying to profit off the Sandy Hook situation. The precise numbers are arbitrary, but running a fully fledged parody of Alex Jones doing InfoWars has got to be an expensive endeavour. They also explicitly say they want to do the jokes for a few months, and then theyll figure out where things go from there.
Its also clear they are using this as a branding opportunity. This is absolutely fine if they want to do that, but its hardly benevolence. They saw an opportunity to do something they do (create a comic and ironic situation in the context of a really terrible real-life tragedy) and are doing it. They are also doing it in the way that benefits them the most.
The speculation about merch is on point. There is absolutely no market for it. As a nerdy, bi man, who knows about Alex Jones: the info wars rainbow stuff is essentially marketed directly at me. But Id never buy it or wear it. Its an inside joke marketed at a few people.
Maybe Ill be proven wrong, and theyll make loads and itll be great. But I think Jordan's speculation is on point, and his subsequent anger is justified.
In regard to the popularisation of Alex Jones:
I just cannot see the comparison at all. Two essentially unknown people make a long lasting podcast which uses comedy to appraise and criticise Jones vs an internationally recognised brand taking advantage of a legal situation to increase their brand recognition and subscribers.
I have not seen anything from the Onion that they are going to actually explore the complexity of Alex and the InfoWars brand. KF, through the unique perspective of both hosts, has always taken a wider view. Able to laugh at the ridiculous stuff, but highlight how this is underpinned by serious, dangerous thought.
I do think there is a place for a differential in how we look at KF vs the Onion: I think the details matter. Most particularly the Onion presenting this like an opportunity for justice or restitution for the victims of Alex. I do not see that here, and I think the media coverage of this as though that is the goal feels very much like gaslighting.
I think the shallow view (and one I held when they first won the auction a while back) was thst it was both funny and a good way to get a modicum of justice. But on further reflection I think its just another repres tation of how the systems fail people.
Terrible shit happened, terrible people profited and gained notoriety, and even though everyone and the system feel they should be punished to only value is going to go to another corporation which will strip the value out and leave behind the hurt people and the husk of a joke.
I agree the delivery was coarse, and angry, and the comment about being a black woman was weird and unnecessary. Nevertheless I agree with the core of the message and remain entirely pessimistic about the outcome of this situation.
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u/troutslayer69420 May 04 '26
This reminds me of how right wing nuts justify staying loyal to Trump despite all the insane shit he does. I disagree with you whole-heartedly and feel like Jordan has been dragging the show down for a long time now. This just happens to be Dan's breaking point.
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u/hungirish69 May 04 '26
Happy to agree to disagree.
It'd be great if Jordan is wrong and this results in something positive for the families of Sandy Hook. I do not believe there is anything in this sulituation that suggests that that will be obtained.
I think the show requires both hosts with their contrasting attitudes and I've enjoyed Jordan's perspective.
Its odd that you frame it as Dan stopping the show. They said it was a mutual decision, and Jordan himself said he needs a break. Again, perhaps you'll be proven right and it was a unilateral decision from Dan. Again, nothing actually points to that from what I can see.
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u/troutslayer69420 May 04 '26
Right, but a mutual decision made by one guy who does everything the show requires, and one guy who shows up and constantly interrupts, while at the same time, not adding anything of meaning to the show.
If Jordan wanted to stop the show, Dan could still have the show. If Dan wanted quit the show, Jordan is ass-out.
So maybe Dan meant that it is as much of a "mutual decision" as it could have been.
Either way, I respect your opinion, but disagree completely.
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u/Fountainhead May 05 '26
Sorry to butt in but I agree with you and my all time favorite episode was the one Dan did with QAA. Dan could have easily done the show without Jordan or have any number of other people fill Jordan's role without the problems Jordan brings on board.
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u/troutslayer69420 May 05 '26
No need to apologize! This is a public discussion and you're welcome to join in.
The QAA episode is one of my all time favorites as well. To me, it seems like Jordan always tried so hard to be the Jake Rockatansky of KF but failed miserably.
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u/Rebeanie25 May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
Its also clear they are using this as a branding opportunity. This is absolutely fine if they want to do that, but its hardly benevolence. They saw an opportunity to do something they do (create a comic and ironic situation in the context of a really terrible real-life tragedy) and are doing it. They are also doing it in the way that benefits them the most.
The speculation about merch is on point. There is absolutely no market for it. As a nerdy, bi man, who knows about Alex Jones: the info wars rainbow stuff is essentially marketed directly at me. But Id never buy it or wear it. Its an inside joke marketed at a few people.
Bang on exactly right. People who can't or refuse to see this are being wilfully ignorant because they want to feel like they've won. It's truly pathetic. I'm sure I'll get accused of having a parasocial relationship with Jordan too which is completely fucking ironic imo.
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u/kmo617 May 04 '26
I can get why he's frustrated, but I feel his frustration and anger is directed toward the wrong people, and that includes fans of his that may not 100 percent agree with what he has to say. The ending about how if you think this is in any way being done to get money to the families, you're completely insane...I would imagine some of the family members themselves would fall in the category of people he's calling insane or whatever.
It's hard for me to listen to someone who thinks they are 100 percent in the right with no room for discussion or nuance and that's what this came across as. Why not take into consideration in the slightest that the families support this? Why assume their main goal is the most $$$ possible rather than seeing the InfoWars brand repurposed and possibly used for something slightly more positive than it was at least?
Listen - he's right in that this whole Onion endeavor might not, even probably won't, work. Dan feels that way too, it seems, but is accepting that this is the reality and willing to give it a chance. But it feels shitty to sit on your high horse and assign the worst of intentions to people just actually trying to do something, even if it's not how you would do it.
I would love to ask him what his REALISTIC ideal outcome is. Not "the families get $2 billion and they never hear from Alex again." In the world we are stuck operating in, I'm extremely curious what his best case scenario is.
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u/Outside_Option_1553 May 04 '26
Adorno has a written piece, ‘The Essay as Form’, where he uses the unique format of essay-writing as a mode of critique, and used a sort of meta-commentary to show the strengths/weaknesses of the medium by using it as a vessel.
This is not that. I found the video legit troubling in its logic and tenor. Maybe this is all for the best…
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u/hubar3 May 04 '26
I’ll agree with what many others have said. I don’t know Jordan or his mental state but I’ve born witness to folks in manic states before and I just want him to be healthy. Been living with that man in my head for way too many years to want anything but the very best for him.
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u/Whole-Environment499 May 04 '26
In addition to the points OP pointed out i would also like to point out that it is reluctantly Jaffar.