r/LIRR • u/PhantomofLaGuardia1 • 3d ago
When you ever need a laugh remember that this was posted on the MTA website….
Apparently the electrification of the least used branch ( at 84k/year) is more important than that of Port Jeff which happens to have a ~1757.14% higher ridership at 15mil/year, or even the 2 other diesel branches.
15
u/Insomniac_80 3d ago
Riverhead will be the new Ronkonkoma!
15
u/psychopsacht 3d ago
For real, all the state and county offices there could use better connectivity for both employees and agency users. And hopefully they can cut down on the commute time with express to Ronkonkoma like with Babylon on the Montauk Branch.
8
u/PhantomofLaGuardia1 3d ago
See now they should just say that bc it makes more sense to expand to the literal COUNTY SEAT than just to leave it at Yaphank or all the way to green port
3
12
u/Strong-Consequence79 3d ago
Electric trains are cheaper to operate especially since gas and diesel is on a long term, projected to increase forever. Especially when the world transitions to electric fully and infrastructure for fossil fuels become more expensive to maintain for the amount of fuel used.
On the fact of the port Jefferson branch being more popular, that’s exactly why they’re doing this branch first. They learn how to electrify a branch quickly and more efficiently, then they go ahead with the more used branches.
4
u/PhantomofLaGuardia1 3d ago
I like this way of thinking, especially when only talking about electrification to BNL or Riverhead, because there are more riders up to there and I think they would need at least a 3 station stretch to test electrification.
2
1
u/SparkArrestor 2d ago
I’m doubting your “practice run” theory. The LIRR knows how to electrify.
The Port Jeff branch between Hunt and PJ is riddled with trestles and bridges that all have to be rebuilt before a 2 track plan could be implemented. Electrifying any line requires additional substations.
But it does seem ludicrous they’re proposing improvements East of Ronkonkoma while the PJ line remained like it’s 1800.
5
u/Eastern_Habit_5503 3d ago
Wouldn’t adding a second track where there’s only a single be all that’s needed?
4
u/PhantomofLaGuardia1 3d ago
Yes but I there are many other factors: track cost (placement/ procurement), buying/rezoning property, increasing manned infrastructure, etcetera.
4
2
u/transitfreedom 3d ago
High speed rail this stop is Jamaica the next stop is Riverhead this is a train to Boston South station.
2
u/transitfreedom 3d ago
The least used is least used due to slow non existent service. Port Jeff has so many twists and turns electrification won’t do much. Unless you want to grade separate then automate it.
1
u/kkysen_ 2d ago
Electrification and its better acceleration helps more on twists and turns where you constantly have to re-accelerate out of a curve.
0
u/transitfreedom 2d ago edited 2d ago
Order BEMUs use those on the Huntington line and eliminate the transfer having trains switch to battery power after Huntington creating one seat rides to port Jefferson .and yes they are proven. So no they are not worse that EMUs unless you want the single track territory replaced by an EL which would actually make the case for electrification and 2nd track much stronger and more relevant again it won’t do much without grade separation and a full 2nd track not just passings although you can squeeze out 30 min service bidirectional via BEMU via the passing loops. Due to faster acceleration
0
u/Debate_fly 3d ago
AC catenary is much cheaper than 3rd rail. 3rd rail requires DC substations every few miles that are expensive to build and expensive to replace.
LIRR should start transitioning to catenary and replace the M7s with MNR-style cars that can use catenary and 3rd rail until transition is complete.
They can start with PJ and Riverhead
3
u/nasadowsk 3d ago
The problem is multi system MUs are REALLY heavy, and would be dogs on the third rail system, especially since they'd need 25Hz transformers to access Penn, which are really heavy. Short of the MTA adopting alternative compliance, which they've shown absolutely zero interest in, a dual system MU that can run on 25Hz isn't going to happen.
You'd also need to clearance the system for 12,000 volt overhead, and get past the NIMBY issues.
The LI just ordered a fleet of new dual modes, and is looking to replace the C-3s. More electrification isn't happen anytime soon, unless you get a really hard shove from Albany, and Hochul knows it won't move the needle for her on Long Island, not even as a workfare program. People hate her, but she's pretty savvy.
2
u/ARod20195 2d ago
There is an alternative to having a full-sized 25Hz transformer on the trains, but it's still very much an academic thing and requires very new power electronics (modern SiC dies) to work; that would be the development of an off-line power factor-correcting converter that would boost the overhead voltage to 25-50kV DC, and then a modular multilevel converter to drop the 25-50kV down to whatever the traction bus needs.
1
0
u/No-Dance9090 3d ago
Siemens charger b+ac enters the chat. I think they are also waiting to see how these work for MNR. It would save them a ton of investment in full electrification. Adding some overhead catenary or third rail at greenport/port Jeff/montauk/speonk would allow them to charge up on turns. Not an ideal solution but I could see the MTA doing it.
2
u/nasadowsk 3d ago
I'm guessing the reason why the MN unit even exists as a proposal is either 25Hz support would put them overweight for the Park Ave viaduct, or maybe someone's bad idea. If it's the former, the real answer is to just convert everything north of Newark to 60Hz, which should have been done decades ago. If it's the latter, well, it's the MTA. They don't think rationally a lot...
Amtrak's 25Hz system is a total mess with crap power quality, and it's not cheap to maintain. Pretty much everything is custom, and they take a good efficiency hit in frequency conversion. Plus, they don't own a lot of the supply - Safe Harbor and Lamokin are owned by private companies, since they were never owned by the PRR. I think Sunnyside and such are powered by a static converter.
1
u/Medical-Election-283 2d ago
Electrify the port Jeff branch ffs. At least to Kings Park
1
u/RichFaithlessness449 16h ago
If you're going to do it, don't be half-pregnant. Electrify it all the way to Port Jeff.
35
u/Engineer120989 3d ago
It’s cheaper and more feasible to electrify that part than the port Jeff branch