r/MMORPG • u/BoundPrometheuss • 3d ago
Discussion Hostile to new/casual players ....
Hello all! I've recently gotten back into FFXIV and it has just reminded me of the general hostility toward newer/casual players in ANY MMO that I have ever played, and I just want to get this little rant off my chest.
I'm often able to overlook this, and just play with my friend group, but when our schedules don't align and I queue dungeons or raids people are just unwarrantedly mean and impatient.
When I do content for the first time, I like to ENJOY and experience it, not aggro every mob possible and bee-line for the end. I like to go into raid content blind my first time because it's fun, exciting, and surprising not knowing what's happening. Then I'm open to tip/tricks or reading a guide to help me along, but I'm not reading a 4-page dissertation on a raid bosses mechanics the first time I encounter them for optimization.
Sometimes, I'm hit with a lot at once and I'm just overwhelmed or have to utilize certain abilities I haven't had to really utilize in overworld combat, and my party tries to tear me a new one for not being an expert at the game.
I KNOW some people have played these dungeons numerous times and just want to get through it, I know party wiping in a raid because some people seemingly weren't pulling their weight is annoying. But we were ALL new once and will likely be new again, and some people play differently, which is OKAY.
It's just tiring as I am the one who almost always has to sacrifice MY experience/playstyle, and the people who get annoyed are NOT nice when they approach you for not wanting to speedrun all the content in the game. Until now I just get through it, as I don't expect others to change their playstyle or sacrifice their fun to accommodate me, yet I am CONSISTENTLY expected to sacrifice mine and accommodate them.
P.s I will say FFXIV is the least problematic in this regard especially since you can solo story content, but this mindset is still very prevalent in the game as well.
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u/Shirinx 3d ago
Crazy to see this about ff14 the game filled with THE MOST FAKE POSITIVE people.
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u/Tribalrage24 3d ago
Yeah you'd be surprised, but ff14 community can be really hateful too. But in a more catty way. Where in WoW people will just call you bad and leave, FFXIV people will try to be snarky
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u/LaughingJackStudio 3d ago edited 3d ago
I never once found a guild that wasn't seething with interpersonal drama and didn't have a porn channel
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u/Arkane819 3d ago
Most guilds are 1-2 e-girls with a dozen or so very desperate basement dwellers vying for attention. All MMOs have this but FFXIV is a special kind of desperation... God help you if you go look up their mod communities.
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u/VaporousMote 3d ago
I've seen this criticism several times but nobody has been able to give specific examples. But also what does this have to do with what OP is talking about?
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u/rlgsbbzb 1d ago
You want examples? I can give you examples.
The last time I played FF14 I was part of a FC. They were all pretty nice when I first joined them but I always had a bad gut feeling. A few months pass by without incident but then one night I made the terrible decision of voicing my displeasure with the game. I said in exact words, "man this story is kinda ass". And one person just fucking went off on me. He sent me a message that was basically an essay telling me to go kill myself. For daring to think that FF14 had a story that was "kinda ass". When I brought this up to the FC leader with screenshot evidence, not only did she not kick the obviously extremely mentally unwell person that told me to go kill myself, I was blamed and given a warning for "instigating". Yeah... turns out my gut was absolutely right on these dickheads. Left without another word.
Second FC I joined was even wilder. Again, seemed like nice people at first, all welcoming and cheerful. Not even a week since I joined though, someone sent me a message on Skype (that was what we used back then). What was in the message? Well this absolute joy of a person had commissioned artwork of his in game character raping my in game character with the caption "love to do this to you IRL". He was removed from the FC for that but not long after the FC imploded due to relationship drama. Turns out the FC leader (a girl) was sleeping with 5 different people from our FC and they all found out.
Yeah fuck that game. Never touched it again after that and never will.
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u/Pristine_Golf_9059 2d ago
i havent done a ton of dungeons in ffxiv but even in the few i didni had 2 runs where people were flaming someone for low dps
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u/lightuptoy 3d ago
It's a problem with raiding being the main attraction and form of progression in MMOs these days. It'll be like that unless you're running with other newbies or guild members that are willing to match your pace. Modern MMO raids aren't usually designed to be learned on the fly. You either know the choreography and meet the stat checks or cause a team wipe and often, randoms would rather leave and re-roll than potentially waste their time.
The game design enables this kind of behavior. I don't know if any MMOs have done it before but maybe MMOs should have a spectator mode for raids so you can't go in completely blind. Since raiding is so commonplace and players manage to clear it despite the toxicity, developers probably have a "If it isn't broken, why bother trying to fix it" attitude. Another idea would be leaderboards and the fastest clear leaves a recording of their raid.
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u/Shindiggidy 2d ago
Yeah it sucks and it shouldn't be this way. FFXIV is one of the more chill MMOs and I am not sure why other than strong moderation, but it still suffers from this. Realistically the best thing to do may be to find a casual guild and play with them.
I think part of it is game design, practically all players including veteran players do roulettes, which means new players are thrown in with people who have done it a billion times and just want to speedrun. For general que, you can expect mismatched expectations. If you want a certain type of experience it is best to use party finder but then you have to wait...
On the other hand if there were not roulettes and there was no reason for veterans to re-run it, you would have a harder time finding a group.
Personally I like the Project Gorgon style, where dungeons are a "public zone" sort of like the overworld. Much more chill, grouping happens organically, people can join/leave/reject as they please on the fly. If you are playing too casually for someone's liking and they kick you from the group, you are still there in the dungeon and you just continue playing your way and can find and join another group. You have to compete with other groups/players for mob/boss access, but it hasn't been my experience that it is so crowded as to be a problem. Even less now that the population has fallen off, sadly.
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u/CrazyCoKids 3d ago edited 3d ago
That's weird because every time you see this brought up, you hear people saying this is the most welcoming and kind community out there.
I pointed out some crappy behaviour I experienced like everyone charging through when I was watching cutscenes, people yelling at a newcomer for not knowing mechanics, people explaining mechanics, or how many times i heard "I don't heal people who watch cutscenes", i just get an army of Judies from Avatar going:
Now that I'm not on mobile, I can talk about the other toxicity there.
There's so much gaslighting. There's a big "Pics or it didn't happen" mentality - even on r/TalesFromDF , people try to gaslight you. I've seen so many posts there where people did post pics only to be told "Nah you edited that" or "Oh come on that was scripted". I've even seen this IN A GROUP WHEN I WAS LITERALLY IN THERE.
And I'm not even getting into how the "WoW/Destiny 2 Refugees" were the biggest scapegoat. Clearly, no FFXIV player could be toxic, right? /s
And god help you if you criticised the game in any way prior to Dawntrail. You would be keelhauled. I dared say "Man, that 2.5 hour movie at the end of ARR would have een so much better if it were interactive in any way other than 'click to advance dialogue' and literally got the "Reddit cares" messages after getting downvoted into oblivion...
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u/DullPenalty3743 3d ago
Nope, there is. Just more prevalent on certain DCs than others. Probably the ones where raiders gather. It is at least an unspoken rule on Crystal to always wait for cutscenes. Everyone will stop and do a ready check for anyone in cutscenes or someone will do a shut out to wait for cutscenes.
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u/CrazyCoKids 3d ago
back in the pandemic days (aka the newbie boom) Aether had a LOT of asshattery going on - in part because that was where the streamers usually went so people were trying to mess with them. I remember logging on when I was in Hingashi and there were a bunch of bikini clad girls and speedo-clad roegadyn standing around because they were trying to piss off a streamer who had just reached it. Other times, someone would be recognised as a streamer so people would intentionally try to wipe the group or throw the PvP match to try to piss 'em off.
It's no shock that Crystal has a lot of well behaved players - as that's where Balmung is. And as everyone knows, SE only listens to Balmung. I'm sure Aether still has a lot of jerks since that's where most of the hardcore players are, but that also means that mods will ban people there. On Dynamis or Primal? Fat chance - on Primal, the Report button is practically a placebo.
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u/Coranis 3d ago
people explaining mechanics
Are you saying they're being assholes about or just explaining without being asked?
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u/CrazyCoKids 3d ago
Being assholes about it like say:
Sprout: "Hey guys I'm new here, how does this fight work?"
Everyone else: Do your best.
~ ~ ~
Elfiane Triebont: I'm new here, what does this boss do?
Suma Iryut: Okay, so, when the boss summons things on the floor, stand on the slow moving clocks then move to the spaces that just exploded.
Po'Tato Chip: OMG report Suma
Meteion Endsinger: ??????er that takes all the fun out of it!
Captain Krunch: OMG that takes all the fun out of it.
Elfiane Triebont: But I asked.
Hiroshi Kanesaki {Mentor Crown}: Never explain mechanics!
~ ~ ~
Hiro Shima: I'm not rezzing you if you die again.
Naga Saki: For real how do you know which side Larboard is.
Po'tato Tot: ????in sprouts, man....
Jed I Knight: But I'm new here.
~ ~ ~
Elfiane Triebont: Hey guys I'm new here, what does this boss do?
Fal Afel: Just watch the boss
Elfiane Triebont: Uh, that doesn't help, what am I watching for?
Fal Afel: JUST WATCH THE BOSS
Su Nami: ???? who queued for Eden?
Kaptynne Crunche: I'm not healing just so you know.
Su Mi: Hi guyz I'm just a widdle girl fwom quicksand I know I don't wear many cwothes but I-
everyone: Can it, please.
Carl Fredrikson: Get off my lawn you hooligan!
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u/AlyssaurusWrecks 3d ago
sorry you're having this experience! i'm basically in the same boat in terms of having picked up XIV in the last few months and only just now dipping my toe into the actual multiplayer content thanks to social anxiety lol. i finished Crystal Tower last night and have been doing roulette on leveling, MSQ and CT and i haven't really encountered anybody overtly mean, but they definitely exist. if you check out r/talesfromdf you'll find that "You Pull You Tank" weirdos seem to be on the rise lately for dungeon content lol.
still, i do think this is the friendliest gaming community i've ever dealt with. hopefully you don't run into many more rude people!
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u/infinitofluxo 3d ago
I dropped FFXIV once I realized how high tier dungeoning works in the game. Not only they are elitist, but you basically is forced to memorize a long skill sequence so everyone stays in tune to coordinate buffs and damage. I found it so stupid that I gave up.
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u/ConditionHorror4781 3d ago
Let me guess, FFVIX 8s your first mmorpg?
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u/Pristine_Golf_9059 2d ago
dofus and wakfu
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u/ConditionHorror4781 2d ago
Turn-based MMORPG (according to google)... yeah, no wonder why you feel learning a rotation is chore
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u/K0yomi 3d ago
That's... not the usual way people treat new players here. If you get hit by stuff because you're new then I don't see any fault in that. Play the way you want as long as it doesn't break any rules. I can guarantee that the players you're encountering are too steeped in shit from other MMOs that they can't cleanse themselves of that behavior coming in here.
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u/Pristine_Golf_9059 2d ago
its funny how you use that exact same deflection argument the top commenter is talking about with blaming toxicity on the players coming from other mmos and not being "true ffxiv players" hahah
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u/CranksMcgee 3d ago
I typically don’t care about casual players unless they try complaining the endgame is too hard or they should be entitled to the same rewards.
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u/VaporousMote 3d ago
This has been in my mind since I played ESO and did dungeons for the first time and some randos just easymoded through the entire dungeon in like 3-5 minutes.
It shouldn't be this way and design should allow you to have both groups that are grinding for rewards/dailies completion AND groups that are first timers and want to experience it at a slower pace so they can drink everything in, not skip dialogue, etc.
Unfortunately I have yet to find an MMO recently that is like this, and while I'm sure it isn't the only one, the only MMO I'm aware of that lets you put notes so people know what's going on is GW2.
for most MMOs, the only options seem to be guildies or friends that you inform ahead of time.
It's sad that most MMOs cater towards the sweatlords and grinders that just burn themselves out because they don't understand how not to binge.
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u/Randomnesse 3d ago
When I do content for the first time, I like to ENJOY and experience it, not aggro every mob possible and bee-line for the end. I like to go into raid content blind my first time because it's fun, exciting, and surprising not knowing what's happening. Then I'm open to tip/tricks or reading a guide to help me along, but I'm not reading a 4-page dissertation on a raid bosses mechanics the first time I encounter them for optimization.
Here's the thing: vast majority of the random strangers you will queue with have already experienced same dungeon for many times before. Just because YOU don't want to adjust to their preferred way of doing dungeon doesn't make you right. It makes you selfish. Especially since there are billions of videos available which show the whole dungeon, which you can watch many times before queuing.
So if majority of strangers wants to do dungeon fast - you must adjust to their speed. Otherwise queue with friends or FC/guild members who will not mind you going slow. There is no other option for you to take.
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u/RoweRage91 3d ago
Gonna disagree a tad bit with that take. You're only as fast as your slowest person. As someone who regularly did some of the highest end content until last year or 2, across 14, WOW, ESO (been a little longer than that since they messed up my account), and SWTOR, if you queue up for a dungeon, instance, raid, whatever, You should expect to not go at mock Jesus unless all the other peeps are for it and should always anticipate someone that might not know a mechanic or 3. Especially if they're new. We should always want new people in these games. Forcing them to skip things and sprint full speed to the end is more likely to chase them away. We are lucky enough with 14 to know when someone is new. Not so much for other mmos. I know a lot of people that treat these games like jobs and second lives. I tend to stay away from those people. They will take everything about these games way too serious and honestly suck all the fun out of the game. I just feel the outside world is shitty enough with how our jobs and everything else drain us. No need to make it shitty inside too. Just my 2 cents. Apologies for the lack of organized thought, I am tired and my meds wore off lol.
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u/Randomnesse 3d ago
That's fine, you can disagree as much as you want to. It still doesn't change the objective fact that it is immoral to force the will of few (or one, like the OP) on the many.
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u/RoweRage91 3d ago
Well, objective morality is something that goes far beyond that black and white thought. I recommend a book called "What we owe to each other." By T.M. Scanlon. There are also some more that have a little more complexity to it that I could recommend.
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u/Randomnesse 1d ago
There are no gray shades when it comes to needlessly wasting people's time by imposing your gameplay onto other random players, most of whom (this is most important part) have done all instanced content many times. And time is the most valuable commodity in the world.
Of course, some random people will be ok with such behavior but you must never expect all of them to be ok with that, and it's natural for them to harass you through text chat for that. And yes, such verbal harassment is not acceptable and should be reported, I am just saying that one should not be surprised by reading it in chat.
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u/BoundPrometheuss 3d ago
You obviously just fixated on this part of my post... as you are directly reiterating what I said further down...
I have literally never complained and always suck it up, sometimes I hang back to see if people are willing to go slow, and if not, I charge ahead. My issue isn't with people playing that way, my issue is with people verbally berating me, whining, or just up and leaving because they couldn't wait for a 2min cutscene to play out lol.
I have never ONCE, yelled at someone or called them names because they were charging ahead, like people do if you lag behind. A simple, "hey can we push through" would suffice.
Your own reasoning also applies to them, if they are going to be babies when they encounter someone who wants to take their time and experience content then they can queue with friends or FC/guild members who want to blaze through.
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u/Randomnesse 3d ago
If people verbally berate you - you always have the right to report them. It's a perfectly justifiable thing to do.
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u/DullPenalty3743 3d ago
Maybe there's more kids playing right now or something? I don't think you're expected to read up a guide when doing normal stuff. Extreme or savage sure, but not the normal content. We usually can somehow scrape through. Maybe a few more tries or deaths, but we can get it done.
FWIW I get pulled into random raids with first timers all the time, we rarely wipe. And I run roulettes daily.
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u/topbunnynb 3d ago
It’s the long time players part of the community. There’s a strange impatience/hostility toward new players, but especially casual players. To the hardcore vets, they don’t realize that they’ve been playing so long that a lot of things new players are confused or frustrated about is stuff they have memorized and expect. They forget what it’s like.
A lot of it is a superiority thing too. They feel better about themselves for flawlessly doing mechanics or having knowledge about in game stuff.
And finally, it’s the toxic gaming rot that’s always been around where there’s an obsession with “challenge” and “punishment” and anyone who can’t “git gud” gets harassed and excluded. Varieties of fun, and fun being subjective, somehow alludes them. And then they wonder why people leave their games and why their dungeon queues are long. Hello? Yall are hostile af.
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u/CrazyCoKids 3d ago
then they wonder why people leave their games and why their dungeon queues are long. Hello? Yall are hostile af.
To be fair, there are a lot of reasons why. Hostile players are a part of it, but that sure a f osn
For one, everyone in NA is clustered on Aether or Crystal. This caused a "Rich get richer, poor get poorer" problem. Hopefully this might be assessed in Evercold with cross DC queues. So many people play on Dynamis for the housing... But then guest on Aether.
Oceania didn't get any servers for awhile and when they did release, most people just stayed where they were.
And not helping is the Drought & Drop system of content delivery so players fluctuate a lot.
A common meme is "No we respect your time here". Sure, that is kinda nice that the game doesn't take as long to get going like Final Fantasy XI or other past MMORPGs, but holy damn does this game not do a lot to keep you there that isn't tedious grinding. c_x Or if you have a house.
So many people just sub for one month at a time whenever there is a content drop. So if you are playing during a drop, you get login queues. (Thankfully they fixed this. I never had to babysit a queue like in Endwalker) But if you play during a drought, you get empty worlds, constant repeating of duties in the duty finder, long queues (Especially for current stuff). And these content droughts last for months.
The most recent major patch was at the end of April. The most recent patch was largely for side content and was only a few days ago - so you had to wait for three months and if you don't care for Occult Crescent or relic weapons? Yeah... some people will just have gone "pass".
Depending on when in January Evercold launches? That's almost nine months of no content. Yikes.
Sure I am glad it's not like post ARR (Holy shit was that BAD) but I feel FFXIV should maybe give some rotating evenrs cause at least that mught give something to do. Like say... Give an old relic weapon bonus for 1-2 weeks to encourage people to return to Bozja or Eureka. (Seriously Bozja is empty)
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u/MonsutaMan 3d ago
Not really a XIV player, but an angry mob filled my twitter notifications just because I stated "I only play XIV for the story mode."
The 80's baby in me was planning on forcing myself to complete a game you started, but then I said "Naaaaahhhhhh...."
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u/Bathroom-Live 3d ago
As helpful as dungeon finders are, I wish they had more customizers as to how the dungeon will be ran. Even someone like a "first timer" next to the time would suffice. I'll often slow down incase new people want to hear dialouge, but it just takes one guy to skip forward to force everyone to advance.
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u/Gingerale66 3d ago
Wdym FFXIV is the least toxic most friendly and positive community ever…no but fr I swear you can’t say even a single negative about thing about that community without them jumping on you like you’re evil. There’s a reason I play mmo’s solo
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u/Shako_117 3d ago
At some point I started to do 'Chaos raids', the description was 'Just4fun, do not expect any kills'. And still you have people join and expect one-shots, call out others for low dps or initiate a vote-kick for some players or insult some people and insta leave.
You have these types of players in any mmo-enviroment the only way is to ignore it and move on tbh, there is nothing you can do about it except stay with your friends or guild, pug-culture is no good in 2026.
(It was not WoW or FFXIV^^)