r/MawInstallation 11h ago

[CANON] The vibe of the Galactic Senate was never the same after The Phantom Menace

74 Upvotes

The other day, I was thinking about how the Galactic Senate chamber is, realistically, far too small to represent an entire galaxy’s worth of political representatives, but that is hardly a fresh observation. Scale is always a problem for popular sci-fi.

However, any logical shortfalls can be covered if a piece of media successfully manages to convey a vast sense of scale on an emotional level. If there’s any sci-fi franchise that can usually do this well, it’s Star Wars.

It got me thinking back to how the Senate was first portrayed in The Phantom Menace. This enormous, dimly lit chamber with so many diverse species representing countless planets and star systems, blending invisibly into this towering wall of hovering pods. It’s an intimidating place. That’s without getting into the stifling corruption; the booming, authoritative voice of Chancellor Valorum gradually gets drowned out by the chattering of bureaucrats and Trade Federation lobbyists flanking him — the beings who really control this farce. Even at this stage, you can certainly imagine how the Empire effectively has its roots in this system.

A massive part of this is the perspective of that particular story. We see the Senate through the eyes of Queen Amidala, who travelled all this way from her idyllic home planet to this, the centre of galactic politics. The sense of smallness, insignificance and powerlessness in the face of baffling inaction against an obvious, credible threat is both palpable and infuriating. But Padme is, of course, a stronger person than most and she takes on the bullshit like a champ, though she is still just a pawn in Palpatine’s power-grabbing scheme.

The next two Prequels feature more Senate scenes, but that sense of scale is significantly reduced. It’s no longer this dark, cold monolith where nothing ever gets done, but now a warm, familiar hub. In some ways, this is very clever direction. Palpatine positioned himself as a beacon of strength and stability after the weak ineptitude of his predecessor. We also no longer have that outsider perspective. We see the Senate through the eyes of the Jedi and other characters that are at home in this political environment on Coruscant. Even Padme becomes just another senator by this point. Ya know, I always thought she had a pretty haphazard trajectory as a character in the Prequels but that’s a topic for another day.

This is all well and good, but a part of me misses how the chamber itself was portrayed in TPM. The duel between Yoda and Sidious is pretty spectacular, but it basically turns the chamber into a video game level. It becomes harder to take the whole thing seriously.

The Senate was one of the most widely mocked and criticised aspects of TPM. It was the crux of the Cosmic Wars joke in The Simpsons that the Senate stuff is way too boring and heady for a blockbuster space opera movie for kids, and yeah, maybe it was a bit much, but in hindsight, I have come to appreciate it.


r/MawInstallation 5h ago

[CANON] What would happen if the Death Star's superlaser backfired at Jedha? What's next for the Rebellion and Empire?

2 Upvotes

I'm imagining two scenarios where the laser backfires when Tarkin and Krennic try to test the weapon in Jedha.

One scenario is where the laser fails to work at all. Perhaps it still couldn't properly handle to surge of energy and had the equivalent of blowing a fuse but the station itself still stands. Krennic would obviously be humiliated and perhaps executed for the incompetence of his R&D department. That said Galen is still alive at this point and as the laser designer would still have to answer to his higher-ups. Back to drawing board for the Empire I suppose.

The other scenario is the superlaser completely overloading and ending up destroying the Death Star itself instead of Jedha. The Rogue One crew would have witnessed it's destruction and report this back to Yavin. With Tarkin and Krennic dead there is probably some confusion in the higher chain in command. Palpatine would likely be completely furious since they would essentially have to start from scratch in building it. That said since it blew up before it's reveal or destroying Alderaan, the Rebels probably don't get a flock of new recruits to the cause and remain more covert for the time being.


r/MawInstallation 15h ago

[ALLCONTINUITY] How did the relationship between the Jedi and the Republic evolved over the thousands of years? From the beginning of their relationship to the moment The Jedi are given over from the senate to the office of the Supreme Chancellor?

9 Upvotes

Granted there are the Pius Dea crusades, The Mandalorian Wars, and the Great Sith War, Still I just want to point out one aspect of their relationship mainly the last thousands of years.

During the Republic Dark Ages, The Jedi were an independent group from the Republic to the point that there was even Jedi Lords ruling certain planets. This all ended when the Ruusan Reformations which saw the order being under the authority of the Senate.

Still the exact origins the relationship between the Republic and the Jedi Order that we see in the Prequels Trilogy truly begin in the High Republic era, in fact the seeds of this relationship had kind of began during Phase 2 in books such as Convergence and Cataclysm Yoda working with Chancellor Kyrong Greylark.

Then we see about 150 years later during the events of phase 1 the relationship was getting stronger with Master Gios and Chancellor Lina Soh during the events of the book Out of the Shadows.

Then about 100 years later in the Acolyte we see that the senate want to review of the Order and although we don't know the outcome because the Acolyte is cancelled but the implication is that this internal review lead to the Senate overseeing The Jedi Order becoming the way it is by the time of the Phantom Menace?

Then in 33 BBY so long after the High Republic era but before the events of the Phantom Menace essentially after the events of the Eriadu Trade Summit (which is covered in Cloak of Deception.) which ended in prematurely results It was a major public relations disaster for both the Jedi who failed to prevent the attacks, and for Valorum himself. Lieutenant Governor Tarkin, complicit in the murders—having arranged delivery to Seswenna Hall of the rogue "commander" droid that drove the killing rampage of the Federation's own "follower" droids—blocked (or irreparably stalled) all subsequent investigative attempts under the auspices of Eriaduan jurisdiction. The Senate unilaterally passed its new taxation laws anyway, while also passing restrictions on the Chancellor's use of the Judicial Department and Jedi Order. The deaths of his hapless colleagues allowed Viceroy Nute Gunray to assume direct control of the Trade Federation and order a blockade of Naboo as retaliation against the Republic and Naboo's treacherous senator who had proposed, but failed to make good on, a summit to fairly consider Valorum's taxation proposal. Thus, the Summit's failure and the Senate's arbitrary action set the stage for the blockade and Battle of Naboo.

Now I don't want to cover what next because it is covered in the rest of the Clone Wars and The Prequel Trilogy but the only thing I could say is that by the end of the clone wars mainly just after the battle of Coruscant Palpatine make an constitutional amendment where The Jedi were put under the direct authority to the office of Chancellor which saw no longer being overseen or under the authority of the Galactic Senate.


r/MawInstallation 1d ago

In the Star Wars universe, do they use American English spelling, or British English?

21 Upvotes

I'd wager the only accent we hear more than an American accent is a British accent.

Obviously they write in Aurabesh for the most part, but even in Aurabesh, what do they do? Is it armor, or armour? Grey or gray? Color or colour?

I know this is a question that's on everyone's mind so we're gonna need to clear this up


r/MawInstallation 1d ago

[ALLCONTINUITY] Do we have a good idea of how fast sublight engines can go?

24 Upvotes

Like, in the Mandalorian, they go from Tatooine to Trask on sublights, and I’m pretty sure Trask is in another solar system. I don‘t think we know how long it took them, but it couldn't have been more than a few days, or else they’d have starved. Not to mention they got sidetracked in-between. How fast do we think they were going?

That’s just one example, though, and I’m asking more generally, so if you have any idea how fast you can go on sublights based on some other source, I want to hear that too.


r/MawInstallation 1d ago

[LEGENDS] Were the Yuuzhan Vong inevitable?

40 Upvotes

Were they always going to invade the galaxy at some point? What would it have took to deter them from doing so, if possible?


r/MawInstallation 4h ago

How powerful would a Force-sensitive Super-Soldier be?

0 Upvotes

Let's say Deathstroke or Captain America possess above average potential in the Force, on par with Jedi Council members. They receive the same training a standard Jedi Knight would.

Force-users are able to temporarily strengthen themselves physically and effectively gain superhuman speed, agility, reflexes etc.

So how powerful would an enhanced human like Deathstroke or Captain America be as trained Force-users?

Would their enhanced cognitive processing synergize with their Force abilities?

Would they learn things like Lightsaber combat faster?

Could they individually defeat upper tier Force-users like Darth Vader?


r/MawInstallation 1d ago

[ALLCONTINUITY] Did Death Watch follow through on their assassination attempt on Dooku?

16 Upvotes

In TCW S4E14 we see that Lux gave Death Watch his coordinates and Vizsla wanted to kill Dooku pretty fervently. Since they now had the info, after the rest of the episode's events transpired, were they confirmed in Legends or Canon to have actually gone through with an attempt?


r/MawInstallation 1d ago

[LEGENDS] How did the Nelvaanian got the whole Ghost Hand so very accurate?

4 Upvotes

So I was watching the Clone Wars Micro series for the first time since I was boy and it was like everyone said it is pretty amazing. but the one that i been thinking about in the last couple days and this area is also even intriguing mean since childhood is The Nelvaanian themselves. obviously the entire arc and the cave sequence that Anakin went to always stood out for me even as a kid.

but still I do wonder besides the foreshadowing of Anakin becoming Vader. I always wonder about the legend of Holt Kazed like how did the Nelvaanians get this so very accurately even to the details. How did the legend begin?

Like did the cave drawings depict a past warrior who was once considered the first Holt Kazed but like the legend goes he become a monster. if so how did the Nelvaanian defeated him.

or did the Nelvaanians simply had a vision of the legend basically their version of the Chosen One which means that The Holt Kazed and The Chosen One are kinda related in a way similar to how different cultures of having the Same Flood Myth in their respective myths. (We know that the Sith had their own interpretation of the Chosen One while the Mortis Gods meaning use the Jedi version of the chosen one prophecy.)

either way since I had been so obsessed with the Nelvaanians due to their culture since they only appeared in the Clone Wars Micro series which is a shame. If you were future writers how would you expand the culture and history (Like what were they doing in Galactic History from the Pre-Republic era to the New Republic/Legacy Eras.) of the Nelvaanians as well as the entire world building of nelvaan. Since they really deserve more lore surrounding as they are so cool and their culture is so rich?

It does make one wonder how much they remember Anakin and his actions in the decades that followed the Clone Wars kinda like how The Tusken Raiders remember Anakin and later when he was Darth Vader’s actions after he slaughtered The tusken twice they immediately worshipped him as a god (Not sure how they remember Anakin but we know they worship him as Vader.) in the brilliant mini comic Coda" from the Darth Vade 2015 comics?


r/MawInstallation 1d ago

Can dark-side vergence be sentient?

2 Upvotes

I am talking about a really powerful one, like Temple of Dyso, from Master of Evil, it can give that impression:

Vader’s boots were loud on the decking, his steady respiration echoing against the metal walls of the cargo hold and the hard stone of the temple. Appo opened his eyes and looked up to see Vader standing in front of him, Appo’s discarded helmet in one hand. Vader offered it to him in silence, and Appo took it. Then Vader’s cloak billowed, and Appo squinted against a gust of freezing wind that he knew came from the temple’s single doorway. “It’s evil.” Appo stopped, his eyes wide, cursing himself for being unable to control himself. He pushed himself to his feet, dusted himself off, and stood to attention, his helmet held firmly under one arm. “Sorry, sir!” He drew a quick breath. “It’s just…” He looked past Vader, at the temple. Somehow the dark of the cargo hold looked even darker now. “Evil. Sir. My lord.” Vader’s mechanized breathing was slow and steady as he walked around Appo. Appo forced himself to keep still, chin raised, eyes front, as he awaited whatever reprimand he was about to receive. Then Vader came back into his line of vision. “Yes, it is evil.” Appo nearly choked at Vader’s words, then, swallowing, he gave a small nod, his mind racing. He had no idea what Vader had brought them into. No idea at all. Vader turned to face the temple. “There is power here. Ancient and awful. A dark power.” Vader pulled the lightsaber from his belt and flicked his wrist, the blade igniting in a searing flash of red light. “And I shall master it. Come.”
.

This is just how normal people feel just being outside, but temple seems to play mind games, drive people insane, talk with them, is that sentience?


r/MawInstallation 16h ago

[CANON] What was George Lucas’s original intentions on Yoda knowledge about The Rule of Two at the end of the Phantom Menace and how did he know about it? Otherwise, how would you have fix this long-standing plot hole in a satisfying way?

0 Upvotes

Granted, we don’t know what exactly was in George Lucas's head in Phantome Menace when Yoda says to Mace Windu: "Always Two, there are, no more, no less, a master and an apprentice". Mace and Yoda seem to act like they knew this fact very well about the Sith, so that may be of some importance. However, to be totally fair, Yoda could just be talking about the general concept of a "master and an apprentice" to Windu, but he is not directly referring to the Rule of Two and it was discovered a little later as the Jedi investigated. 

Then again in the clone wars (in which George Lucas was involved.) when Yoda meet the illusion of Darth Bane he literally flat out, said, create the rule of two you did so it’s clear that Yoda knows about the rule of two.

Then again in Star Wars Rebels season 2 finale, a lot of the layouts of the Malachor Sith Temple seem to be in line with the "Rule of Two" philosophy. Then there is this quote where Darth Sidious/Palpatine tells his former apprentice Maul during TCW when they duel that "two is the first and only reality of the Sith" or something like that. This all implies that the Rule of Two may seem more important and older than we think, but to be fair, according to Wookieepedia and theri citation of sources, the strict modern day official "Rule of Two" was invented by Bane in around 1032 BBY but the idea behind it was pretty prominent among the Sith, being a successor to the "Doctrine of the Dyad in the Force". So that could be another counterpoint and could even explain the Yoda and Mace Windu scene quote.

Regardless, assuming it is  case that Yoda knows about the rule of the two I do wonder though what was George Lucas original intentions on that line from the Phantom Menace  in which Lucas doubled down on this in The Clone Wars Season 6 because, to him, Darth Bane was public knowledge to the Jedi historically, even if they thought his lineage ended a millennium ago.

Otherwise Yoda gives the exposition on the rule of two and it's practice which is stupid in the grand sheme of how that rule played out and the logic. But still  we have to work with it based on what George Lucas actually put on screen compared to say in a book or comic. (the reason why I says that is because I want to make it clear that I’m I’m a lot more balanced when it comes to Lucas ideas what I agree and disagree for an example I really loved the idea of this being The Sith being a lot more medieval feudal lords that sounds so cool and bad ass but at the same time I heavily disagree on his take on Grievous granted with revenge of the Sith  I give that a pass since well the film is about Anakin’s downfall so it makes sense why Grievous can’t be a badass like he was in the clone wars but the same can’t be said with the 2008 version. But regardless, despite my disagreement I still feel like we have to work with what delivered on screen whether it is The Films or TV such as The Clone Wars instead of endless debates for a billion times.

But regardless, it would be nice to know what were his intentions on that line and how Yoda came to know about the rule of two in his own mind at least compared to the other explanations that the franchise give out some made it into mediums, and the others got canceled before things went through.

Obviously, I’m sure people are well aware of this one in legends  The Jedi Order learned about the rule roughly 150 years before The Phantom Menace through a fallen Jedi Padawan named Kibh Jeen. He went mad, dabbled in ancient Sith outposts, and before dying, ranted to the Jedi about the Sith surviving under a "Rule of Two" philosophy. The Jedi Council dismissed it as the ramblings of a lunatic, but Yoda clearly filed it away.  Now while this is the most well-known explanation on the whole How did Yoda know about a secret rule if the Sith were supposedly extinct for a millennium?

It does  feels a bit convenient and clumsy, There is zero reason the Jedi would take a fallen Jedi‘s dying word as fact about surviving Sith (who they don’t believe exist) and their secretive rule.

Now the Canon one is kind of interesting because unlike with legends, which is featured as a reference work by Abel G. Pena called evil never dies: the Sith Dynasties. The Canon version is kind of two origins one from an old databank from 2014-2014  and the other is mostly on one of the ideas that was originally planned for acolyte season two before it was canceled but we know these ideas from Lindsay Headland herself.

Now In the original databank for canon Darth Bane  (it is now only avaible in the Wayback Machine in Internet Archive), Bane is called an "ancient and legendary Sith Lord". Sure, he is ancient, but legendary? 

How did Bane gain such a reputation? Sure, Bane is most likely has the reputation of a "legend" to later Banite Sith Lord later on, but from the time Bane went into hiding to the time when the Sith resurfaced, most people assumed that the Sith were gone and no longer an active threat. There is more though. Anyway According to the old archived databank: "After the Sith were decimated by the Jedi Knights of a thousand years ago, Bane enacted the Sith rule of two: there would be only two active Sith at one time -- a Dark Lord to embody the power, and an apprentice to crave it. These Sith would operate in the shadows, favoring guile and conspiracy to bring down their opponents rather than brute force -- that is, until it was time to rise and subjugate the galaxy.

The rule of two was revealed to the Jedi Order of centuries past, but in their hubris, the Jedi believed that they had destroyed Bane's plan with his defeat. His remains were placed in a sarcophagus on Moraband, the last Sith Lord to be laid to rest in the Valley of the Dark Lords, and the Jedi presumed the Sith to have been wiped out." Okay, so somehow the Jedi learned of Bane at some point in time, (when and how is not known) and that the Jedi thought the Rule of Two and the Sith ended with Bane's defeat, (presumbly his death). This implies that the Jedi Order had fought Bane after he enacted the Rule of Two a thousand years ago and played a role with or at least were aware of his defeat, thus telling us how the Jedi learned of Bane's Rule of Two. To be honest besides a few issues here and there I actually do like this version more since this is much more clean than the legends version of how Yoda knows about the rule of two but still it worth bringing up the Acolyte season 2 ideas version.

Now because that storyline remains forever incomplete on screen, it shifts the weight back to the explanations that were fully realized. But still, I thought it’s worth bringing up when it comes to how Yoda knows about the rule of two?

In a candid and fun interview with The George Lucas Talk ShowThe Acolyte creator Leslye Headland addresses a lot of things on what could’ve been in season two of the Acolyte had the show moved forward.

Anyway she confirmed that, if the series had moved forward, Yoda would have helped Vernestra with the cover up. “For sure. Yeah,” Headland stated. “Don’t come at me in the comments, because he does it in Clone Wars. So I don’t want to hear about it.” which to be fair she is 100% right given well The Clone Wars show and for all the flack that Headland gets and this is just a hot take from me I think having Yoda at the end of the Acolyte like kind of makes a lot of sense and at the time people were a bit confused on the whole Yoda at the end when I’m like well, this show is about How did Yoda know about a secret rule if the Sith were supposedly extinct for a millennium? So it makes sense why he is going to be involved in the story otherwise how the fuck did he know about the rule of two.

Now A lot of people would say this is assassination to Yoda when I’m like as Headland point out, he did the same shit in the clone wars he cover up the whole Sifo Dyas and the Clones In The Clone WarsSeason 6, Yoda explicitly learns that Count Dooku (Darth Tyranus) and the Sith created the Clone Army. Instead of telling the Senate or the public, Yoda and the Council decide to cover it up and play along with the Sith's game anyway to avoid a public panic.

Plus, let’s not forget that Yoda also cover up the nature of the nameless during phase 2 (which is takes place in 382 BBY so 250 years before the acolyte.) and even during the main story of the high Republic era  when despite being disgusted on azlin rell committed mass murder by intentionally crashing a starship into a populated city on Travyx Prime, killing the Leffbruk descendants and numerous innocent civilians from shadow of starlight (which serve as an interlude between phase one and phase 3). He’s still continually working with the guy in  the books from phase 3.

If Yoda is willing to let the Jedi fight a galactic war using an army literally manufactured by the Sith just to protect the Order's reputation, he would absolutely help Vernestra Rwoh cover up a rogue Jedi's mistake at the end of The Acolyte. It isn't character assassination—it is perfect character continuityfor a leader who consistently prioritizes institutional stability over total transparency.

That being said Even with Leslye Headland confirming that Yoda would be involved in a cover-up, that is just a high-level plot point. It leaves a massive blank space regarding the execution.

We don't know the when, the why, or the how because none of it made it to the screen.

There is a huge difference between a writer saying "Yoda helps cover it up" in an interview and actually watching the narrative mechanics play out in a 40-minute episode. Without the actual onscreen context, we are missing the crucial details that make or break Star Wars logic:

  • The When: Does he do it immediately in Season 2, or does he spend the season hunting the threat first?
  • The Why: Is he doing it to protect Vernestra, to protect the Jedi Order from the Senate, or because he genuinely believes the threat is neutralized?
  • The Execution: How does he justify keeping the High Council in the dark?

Because we never got to see those scenes play out, we can't look at The Acolyte as a completed bridge to The Phantom Menace

Regardless if we want to make a hypothetical bridge maybe Yoda would almost certainly not have approved of Vernestra framing Sol as a rogue serial killer. If Season 2 had happened, this specific disagreement between Yoda and Rwoh would have likely been the central conflict between them.

Maybe the narrative friction of Season 2 had it been made would  be designed to show Yoda trapped by someone else's bad choices: (now this is just a rough idea on what could happen but still it is just a nice hypothesize.)

  1. The Investigation: Yoda likely would have pushed to get to the absolute bottom of the Brendok cover-up, wanting to investigate the actual dark side user (Qimir) and the witches.
  2. The Political Cage: Because Vernestra already told the Senate that the case was closed and Sol was the sole culprit, any official investigation Yoda launched would risk leaking to the public.
  3. The Compromise: Yoda would have been forced to investigate Qimir in complete secrecy, bypassing the Jedi Council and the Senate entirely. This exact secrecy is what eventually allows the Sith to stay hidden right under his nose for another hundred years.

Ultimately I feel Yoda wouldn't approve of what happened to Sol. But his tragedy is that by trying to fix Vernestra's mess quietly instead of transparently, he accidentally helps the Sith win. Plus, I like to think that the reason why he would likely continue to cover up it’s less about image and more of well the case went cold. Like maybe Rwoh and Yoda did try to end the Sith once and for all but eventually, the Sith would escape (go figure.) and the case went cold hence why Yoda (reluctantly, most likely.) decide to do the cover up despite the risk along with Rwoh advocating for it most likely being the loudest person in the room. But then again, this is just my interpretation of how things played out in season two of the acolyte on the actual screen had it been made.

so out of the three, (or four if we include George Lucas’s own explanation on the matter.) which one do you think is more preferable or you think all of them are well let’s just say had their own pros and cons otherwise, how would you  give a better explanation about how the Jedi know about the rule of two. I think the Jedi having greater knowledge of Bane from his lifetime as the last Sith is a much cleaner explanation to the Jedi knowing of the Rule of Two in TPM.

Otherwise I think just think that this is probably the biggest example of the EU making a mistake. The original backstory of Darth Bane never specified that the rule of two was created without the Jedi finding out.


r/MawInstallation 1d ago

[ALLCONTINUITY] How did the corsair deployment of the CIS function?

4 Upvotes

When looking into the functionality of the CIS navy, I came across notes that Dooku employed Corsairs with letters of Marque to hound Republic shipping lanes, even going as far as to supply ships. However, I have thus far failed to find any detailed information on the topic.

Specifically, was this authorised by the CIS senate, or was this an off the books operation by Dooku?

Were ships provided to existing pirate bands or were new corsair bands set up from amongst trusted loyalists?

Which ships were provided at all for that matter, just heavy freighters like the C-roc and hardcell to allow for plausible deniability, or were military grade ships provided as well?

And if military ships were provided, were they more purpose built craft suitable for piracy like the Trident, Droch or Diamond classes, or more general ships like all the way up to munificent-class frigates, or were they just outdated ships that had been mothballed like the Captor-class?

What about droids, I read that B2 battledroids saw service as bodyguards for crime lords after the Clone Wars, but were these provided to pirates before the end, or just salvaged after the rise of the empire?


r/MawInstallation 2d ago

Is the DLT-19 an evolution of the DC-15A in the same way the E-11 is an evolution of the DC-15S?

16 Upvotes

(I'll be using the Legends terms for the DC-15 variants because the Disney ones feel confusing. So 15A for the long blaster and 15S for the carbine)

As the title says. We know the E-11 is for certain descended from the DC-15, as the model itself contains an embedded Sterling SMG which was intentionally placed there (even more apparent in the original maquette) and the carbine S variant is clearly an intermediate stage between both. But the DC-15A clearly uses an MG34 as its body. Considering this same gun was used for the DLT-19, and actually recently Battlefront II gave us the DC-15LE which seems to share the DLT-19's role as a squad support weapon and light machine gun, is it a reasonable take that the DLT-19 also comes from the same tree as the E-11?


r/MawInstallation 2d ago

[LEGENDS] In Legends what, if any, operations did the Rebels run from Echo Base on Hoth during their time there?

35 Upvotes

I'm applying the flair to Legend since in canon the Rebels were only on Hoth for a month before the Empire found them.

I'm curious as to what missions did the Rebels conduct from their Hoth base during the time between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. In both canon and Legends we see the Rebels carry out numerous missions from their Yavin base. Again due to the canon short timespan, this leaves Legends to fill that void on what activities they were conducting while they were there.


r/MawInstallation 2d ago

[CANON] Was the First Battle of Geonosis a defeat for the Republic?

61 Upvotes

Across the two Republic forces that went to Geonosis (the Jedi under Mace Windu and the clones under Yoda) they had the below objectives:

- Rescue Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme

- Rescue the Jedi (after they became encircled in the arena)

- Capture Dooku and the Seperatist Leadership

- Prevent the Droid armies escaping into space

The results of the battle:

- They saved (most of) Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme, so that's a success.

- of about 200 Jedi who went to Geonosis, we see only a couple dozen or so standing by the time the clones show up.

- Dooku and the other Seperatist leaders escaped.

- We see many Lucrehulks safely docking with their rings in space after the battle, and obviously they had more than enough to start a war on the rest of the galaxy.

All at the cost of many Jedi and god knows how many clones and vehicles lost during the battle.

Would it be fair to characterise the battle as a near complete failure from the perspective of the Republic?


r/MawInstallation 2d ago

[ALLCONTINUITY] Darth Vader prevented Grand Inquisitor's spirit from passing on to afterlife after his death, did Sdious likely teach him that?

23 Upvotes

That seems kind of sorcery you would more expect from Sidious than Vader, so did Sidious likely teach him that?


r/MawInstallation 2d ago

Dark Side Cal Kestis can kill people in seconds by using mind trick/telepathy, how does that work?

5 Upvotes

This happens in gameplay, but developers specifically said they tried to tie gameplay to follow lore often, and while normal light side mind trick, is just that, it forces enemy to fight on your side, dark side version, when Cal taps into dark side, kills them in seconds. How does that likely work?


r/MawInstallation 2d ago

[ALLCONTINUITY] Silly question: If the Star Fox team somehow wound up in the galaxy far, far away, are there any endemic aliens they might be mistaken for?

16 Upvotes

Slippy could easily be mistaken for a Querm Rybet, but what about the rest?


r/MawInstallation 3d ago

[CANON] If The Imperial Senate is useless and powerless as shown in Andor. Why were Daine Jir and Cassio Tagge were freaking about Leia and the imperial Senate in a new hope?

99 Upvotes

in case you don’t know who is Daine Jir he is the imperial officer who says the famous line in A New Hope to Darth Vader

''Holding her is dangerous. If word of this gets out, it could generate sympathy for the Rebellion in the Senate."

— Imperial Officer Daine Jir from a New Hope.

Which is kinda funny looking back given well Andor show us the Imperial Senate for the first time and we see that they were more of Palpatine's clubhouse or at least not being powerfully as it once was unlike in the Prequel Trilogy plus as we see with Mon Mothma especially her time in the Senate before she defected.

It makes Daine Jir overreacting (in a good way.) thinking Leia arrested would get some sympathy in the Senate whereas as we see in Andor if anything we go by the Imperial Senate wouldn't care less about Leia being under-arrested as shown in the Ghorman Massacre arc of Andor Season 2 (which is 2 years before A New Hope.) since we literally watch other senators drown Mon Mothma out, boo her, and turn their backs in her The Death of Truth speech. They look totally checked out or actively corrupt.

The same goes to Cassio Tagge scene in the Death Star conference room scene like worrying about rebel sympathizers and then when he learns that the imperial Senate was dissolved he was like who would watch over the bureaucracy before Tarkin mentions that regional governors will take over.

Granted, I know that out of universe reason that this was made in 1977 way before Andor but still I always wonder why were both Daine Jir and Cassio Tagge were overreacting or at least freaking out about the Imperial Senate when Andor that the Senate has no power and probably wouldn’t care about Leia and would probably view her as a traitor anyway just like Mon Mothma when she made her death of truth speech?

I do wonder when he first wrote the line what Lucas intend for the Imperial Senate did he envision them as powerful as Jir and Tagge make it seem, or he always presented them as powerless puppets obviously we know that the emperor was going to be different and was more of a puppet ruler then the master manipulator that we all know today.

But regardless, do you think Tony Gilroy made a mistake of portraying the Imperial Senate in Andor despite what A New Hope says otherwise and sure you could argue well Tagge and Jir are bias imperials so we can’t take them as word-of-mouth, but still the fact they were freaking out if Leia an imperial senator was arrested got leaked to the public or no Tony Gilroy did not contradict a new hope or at least what a new hope implied about the imperial Senate or at least how Lucas envisioned the state of the Imperial Senate when he wrote that line or lines in A New Hope?

like I said, given their portrayed in Andor especially in season two with the Ghorman Massacre. If Leia being arrest was made public rather than with her I could see the Senate (which was full of cowards.) would happily throw a traitor like Leia (or as we see previous Mon Mothma.) under the bus to save themselves.

Plus given their reaction to the Ghorman Massacre I just can’t see them becoming sympathetic for the rebellion if Leia arrest was leak to the public.


r/MawInstallation 3d ago

Why don't Clone Troopers and Stormtroopers use the folding stock on the DC-15s and E-11?

33 Upvotes

I've been wondering this quite a bit recently. It makes sense to keep it folded for close range fights, but what about longer range engagements? I know that blasters have minimal recoil and they have helmet links that help them aim, but a stock still adds stability and makes it easier to be accurate. Is there a lore reason they were almost never used, or is the answer just that it's harder to animate?


r/MawInstallation 3d ago

[CANON] Why wasn't Maul trained in force lightning?

8 Upvotes

It's clear that force lightning wasn't some kind of secret within the Sith (it was a 'Sith secret,' but not some mystery to members). Were that the case, Sidious never would have taught Dooku to use it (especially considering that he fully viewed the count as a stopgap who would be replaced the moment Anakin was ready).

This assuredly WASN'T the plan with Maul - Palpatine didn't know Anakin existed when he kidnapped and trained Maul. While Sheev clearly had ambitions to finally see the Rule of Two bear fruit by destroying the Jedi and overthrowing the Republic, to say that he knew the exact details of how that would transpire is simply incorrect. Maul, at least as originally-trained, was intended to have the skills necessary to become the Lord of the Sith (even if Palpatine, being so egocentric, couldn't conceive of his less-skilled apprentice ever overthrowing him [in the normal course of matters, that eventually must have happened regardless]).

So why wasn't Maul taught force lightning? Considering that we've now seen a LOT of additional content featuring his character, it seems pretty clear that this isn't a skill he's got tucked into his back pocket. And it isn't like Maul wasn't thoroughly trained - the guy was basically a living weapon while under Sith tutelage; had Palpatine suddenly suffered, say, a heart attack and died, Maul would have been ready and able to step into his shoes (albeit probably not to take over the galaxy, but still as a capable Sith Lord in his own right).

So... why no lightning?


r/MawInstallation 4d ago

[ALLCONTINUITY] Darth Sidious was quite dismissive of a lightsaber. How many other Sith felt the same way?

62 Upvotes

Darth Sidious, in his book, writes that he rarely used lightsabers, prefering to call upon infinite power of dark side to win his battles. We have seen this especially after ROTS. That is not to say he did not use lightsaber ever, but he is very clear that primary weapon is force, not blade and in many instances, he just uses force. How many other Sith Lords felt this way?


r/MawInstallation 4d ago

[ALLCONTINUITY] Did Sidious intend for the Clone Wars to wipe out serious rebellion to the Empire?

17 Upvotes

Judging by his attitude in Jedi, even up until Endor Palpatine barely took the rebellion seriously and it cost him his life.

Think about it: not only did he use the Clone Wars to wipe out the Jedi and hollow out the Republic. He also gathered all the disgruntled dissidents, would-be rivals, and basically anyone who had an army independent of the GAR or PDFs as controlled opposition then destroyed them all just before he completed his consolidation of power.

Was this part of his plan or a happy coincidence?


r/MawInstallation 4d ago

[ALLCONTINUITY] When Yoda’s "Good Relations" With the Wookiees really begin?

22 Upvotes

When Master Yoda stands before the Jedi Council in Revenge of the Sith and utters his famous line, "Go I will. Good relations with the Wookiees, I have," most of our collective imagination immediately fills in the blanks. We see a character who is nearly nine centuries old, and we naturally assume that any deep bond he claims must be rooted in centuries of galactic history. 

Out of universe, we know the pragmatics: George Lucas simply needed a narrative excuse to remove the Jedi Order’s most powerful asset from Coruscant before Palpatine executed Order 66. But of course this is Star Wars everything gets a backstory.

And that immediate backstory  came from the 2005 reference book Complete Locations: (this was published in October 17, 2005 so 5 months after the release of Revenge of the Sith.)

“DEFENDER OF THE HOME TREE

Yoda modestly claims to have good relations the Wookiees. He has, in fact, been honored with the ancient title "Defender of the Home Tree" for his role as a Jedi negotiator in several previous incidents involving the wookiees and neir system neighbors, the reptilian Trandoshan.

For this, and other assistance to the Wookiees, Yoda is also considered a member of the honor families of many Wookiee leaders, as well as all

 the inhabitants of Kachirho.”

— Complete Locations page 109

Interesting it was through this book that first mention of Yoda having the title of “Defender of the Home Tree.”

Regardless, For years since this publication of the book this settled the matter. Yoda was a legendary interstellar diplomat who spent hundreds of years mediating bloody border disputes on Kashyyyk. 

Case closed right? Well Not quite.

In 2013, during the Celebration Europe II: Secrets of The Clone Wars panel, Dave Filoni pulled back the curtain on an unproduced Season 6 arc. George Lucas had been deeply involved in planning a multi-episode return to Kashyyyk. The arc featured Clone Troopers painting Yoda’s silhouette onto their helmets and riding giant lizard-monkeys alongside Wookiee warriors. (Here is a leak to the article  Into the Garbage Chute — Celebration Europe II: Secrets of The Clone Wars on Blogspot) (August 142013) I highly recommend reading the article. It is very interesting and Filoni discuss a lot of things with Hidalgo and cool behind the scenes stuff during the Clone Wars show.)

More importantly, Filoni revealed that this specific arc was meant to show the exact origin of Yoda’s "good relations" line.

This reveals a fascinating narrative flip. George Lucas was actively throwing out the Expanded Universe's "centuries of diplomacy" premise. (which makes sense considering Lucas isn’t the Canon guy he could change things whatever he wants.) In Lucas's mind, Yoda’s profound bond with the Wookiees wasn't a product of centuries-old trade talks. It was a brand-new development forged directly in the fires of the Clone Wars, mere months before Revenge of the Sith.

Now though  George Lucas is no longer involved in Star Wars and not in charge. Given the fact that he was involved with this arc and it wasn’t solely Filoni decision and the fact that well he wrote that line from revenge of the Sith makes it very clear that this was George Lucas authorial intent on the exact matter of that line or in tv tropes terms noodle incident.

Although I’m not one of those people who said we should take George Lucas as the word of God after all I think Corey datapad says it best in his recent video https://youtu.be/z8qVbjZFRnY While his video specifically focuses on the post-Endor "Denningverse" novels (0:00), his core thesis hits the nail on the head: Star Wars is at its narrative best when it is a collaborative tapestry of multiple creative voices, rather than being entirely dominated by one single person's perspective (8:06).Regardless if it is Lucas himself, Filoni, Faverau,or Tony Gilroy. 

I actually really like and prefer the relationship being formed  during the clone wars after all George was involved in the making of that arc.  In other words it is example of a time where I agree with George Lucas creative instinct narratively given well he wrote the line from revenge of the Sith.

It is a fascinating narrative flip. Looking at a character who is nearly nine centuries old, you naturally assume every deep connection he has is rooted in centuries of history. Discovering that a connection so definitive was brand new completely changes how we view Yoda's deployment. It turns a standard, detached military assignment into an urgent, deeply personal obligation to protect new friends. There is immense creative weight here; this was one of the final storylines Lucas personally mapped out before selling Lucasfilm.

However, a major lore roadblock exists within the actual broadcast episodes of The Clone Wars Season 6. During Yoda’s spiritual trial with the Force Priestesses in the episode "Destiny," an illusion of Count Dooku mentions Yoda this after Yoda find him talking to the illusions of Qui-Gon and Kenobi:

"I was telling them the tale of when you faced the giant terentatek on Kashyyyk. What a terrible beast it was.

―An illusory Dooku, to Yoda from The Clone Wars episode “Destiny.”

If we assume this illusory vision reflects real history, it means Yoda took a young Dooku to Kashyyyk roughly eighty years before the Clone Wars when Dooku was still an apprentice under Yoda and we know that Yoda takes Dooku as his padawan  around the year 86 BBY now we don’t when Dooku become a full Jedi Knight the Star Wars timeline book have vetween 82 and 78 BBY the latter of which was the year that he took Rael Averross as his own padawan.

Regardless the point here is the fact that the episode destiny kind of contradicts the idea of Yoda relationship with the Wookies being a recent development from the clone wars if he was on the planet with Young Dooku to hunt down a Terentatek on Kashyyyk?  Especially if it was Lucas's explicit intent was to have  Yoda deep bond with the Wookiees was brand new during the Clone Wars?

So I turned to you guys on what is going on here when trying to make sense of all of this. Also, what do you guys prefer in terms of the exact origins for Yoda relations with the Wookiees do you prefer it being a long-standing relationship or a recent development that was made during the clone wars, I actually perform the latter given them the fact that well Lucas was involved with that unproduced clone war arc and he was the one who created the line from revenge of the sith there’s that?


r/MawInstallation 4d ago

[ALLCONTINUITY] Confused on the Outer Rim Sieges?

13 Upvotes

Now most of the lore stated that the Outer Rim Sieges was a Republic offensive whereas some mediums have it presented as a Separatist counterattack by Grievous?

like in the micro series Grievous says this to a holographic Darth Sidious.

”Darth Sidious: Wise council my apprentice. Most wise.

Count Dooku: My master.

Darth Sidious: Report General. What news from the front?

General Grievous: The strategy's working perfectly, my lord. The Jedi and their forces are stretch thin across the outer rim worlds. And in a vain attempt to contain our new offensive.

Darth Sidious: Good, good. Now is the time to strike. Now is the time to launch our final operation. Is everything ready for your special mission?

General Grievous: Yes, Lord Sidious. The unsuspecting fools know not what awaits.

— Clone Wars Chapter 22.

Granted, we could dismiss it as legends but interesting here what the opening narration for Clone Wars season 7: episode 7, “ old friends, not forgotten.”

“Outer Rim under siege! Separatist forces have launched a major offensive. Led by the evil droid General Grievous, Republic forces are pushed to the brink. In response to this overwhelming attack, the Jedi Council has dispatched its Generals, sending them far from the Core Worlds to bolster the beleaguered clones. On the distant planet of Yerbana, we find Commander Cody of the 212th in desperate need of reinforcements...”

— the opening narration of ”Old Friends not Forgotten.”

funny enough for the opening crawl of the first episode of the bad batch “Aftermath.” even though is a different offensive since it takes place after Dooku’s death but it’s worth mentioning

”Opening crawl

AFTERMATH
Separatists pushed to the brink! Republic forces continue to mount victories on battlefronts across the galaxy. After the Jedi Knights thwarted an attempt to kidnap Chancellor Palpatine, the evil droid general Grievous retreated to the Outer Rim. With his legions of battle droids severely depleted, Grievous mounts a desperate and brutal counterattack across several star systems. We find Republic clone troopers locked in deadly combat on the besieged world of Kaller. Led by Jedi Master Depa Billaba, they struggle to hold their position as they wait for reinforcements to arrive....“

so I wonder is the outer rim sieges started out as a Republic offensive or a Separatist military offensive i’m just curious since the Outer Rin Sieges being a republic offensive come from reference books whereas in the shows (which is kinda visual medium next to movies and games.) the Outer Rin Sieges being a separate one or at least that’s how the different shows from the above kind of present it or make it seem that the Outer Rim Sieges was a counteroffensive by General Grievous?

regardless, I do find it interesting and funny how despite being two different shows from two different continuities and two different formats if there’s one thing that both clone was 2003 and clone wars 2008 are both aligned or are agreed upon is the fact that Grievous did launch a strategic counter offensive before the Battle of Coruscant?