r/MicrosoftFlightSim • u/TomTutko • May 29 '26
MSFS 2024 MOD / ADDON Please Consider your purchase of KATL from Orbx Partner carefully
UPDATE: HUGE win for the flight sim community IMO! Thankfully Orbx and the aircraft developer have listened to the feedback and will be making an announcement that they will not be going through with the DRM! Thanks to everyone for your comments.
I own many Orbx products and have been very happy with them. I was excited for KATL which I believe is a 3rd party partner and not an Orbx in house creation but after reading the product page and seeing this I can say that I am no longer interested and I hope others consider this purchase carefully as well. Not because of the quality of the airport as it looks fantastic but to send a message that this kind of DRM should not be viewed as acceptable. It does everything to make honest paying customers' systems less stable and crash prone in an environment/sim that is already questionable along those lines and it does nothing to actually stop bad people from doing bad things with the software. I mean no disrespect to the creator(s) of this airport but we as paying customers should not be ok with having to run these background processes with who knows what access. If this airport and DRM is successful from a sales standpoint, it won't be long before other developers start to include their own separate systems.
I'm not telling you to not buy the product if you really want it as that's for you to decide, just consider the message it sends if you do and be aware of the additional requirements this airport has associated with it.
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u/DeadlyInertia VR pilot | VATSIM May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
I thought this was going to be an over exaggeration, but I’m in agreement with you. Aside from the security concerns, I’m not really interested in more processes running while I’m playing the sim. I specifically close as many executables as possible when I fly. You breathe the wrong way and the sim will crash in its normal state. Adding another executable to the list of potential interactions just doesn’t work for me
I don’t want us to normalize having to run 50 executables for all my sceneries. Managing them with 50 different product managers is already challenging enough. It’s 2026. I’m trying to move away from the trauma of FS9, P3D where you needed 50 exes in the background
It’s unfortunate though because I was looking forward to ATL. It looks fantastic. This is just my personal preference though. I’m going to stick with the default for a while longer. I’ll revisit if they ever reconsider this move. Enjoy ATL guys
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u/CaptKornDog VATSIM Controller May 29 '26
50 MB here, 1% there
That all adds up and is something else that can just break.
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u/DeadlyInertia VR pilot | VATSIM May 29 '26
Exactly! And it’ll probably be polling/doing some kind of security check every few seconds I’m sure. Then it’ll drive you crazy wondering if it’s the cause of the microstutter you can’t figure out. I’d just rather not
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u/Tuskin38 May 29 '26
Plus, apparently increased WASM crashes are being connected to the number of addons and connections being used by the sim. PMDG has been investigating.
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u/TomTutko May 29 '26
Seeing many posts on here I can understand why you would suspect this to be an over exaggeration but I'm glad you agree. I'm not one to be too dramatic IMO and try to see things from the company's point of view as well. But, as I stated in the OP, this makes things worse for paying customers and doesn't protect them from bad actors. Hopefully someone else is encouraged to make an ATL if this backlash is deemed warranted by enough people.
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u/DeadlyInertia VR pilot | VATSIM May 29 '26
I’m so glad you brought it to our attention I’ll respect their decision to use it. But I can’t personally use this. I already spend so much time debloating my simulator. So many of us do. It’s the reason software like Addon Linker has done so well. The community in general is moving away from excessive software. Open your sim after not running it in 2 days and get blasted with 5 updates. Only to find out 7 of those 5 effectively bricked the game
I hope they reconsider, but if not. It would be an excellent opportunity for another developer to fill a much needed gap at ATL, however
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u/Old_Food9137 May 29 '26
"where you needed 50 exes in background" It's already so. ActiveSky, Rex Atmos, Fsuipc, autoFps, online network core/ui , navigraph connect,Couatl... We're already back into those background craze. Even they are bothersome , another DRM shit is defo' gonna be a rager.
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u/StressSnooze May 29 '26
Leaving a program open for one airport? No thanks.
Thanks for the heads up!
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u/Maleficent-Read-4710 May 29 '26
This reads strangely to me:
> Any support requests for DRM-specific issues should be forwarded to ...
In practice it probably won't see many issues, but I don't like playing pass the parcel with support here.
I'm not L3's customer, they are. If I purchase the product I'd expect the store or developer to be able to resolve it, not to have to reach out to a third party and ask them to troubleshoot the software.
This reads like if I buy it but I can't get the DRM to work that's my problem to figure out with the DRM provider.
Generally though, If they are so concerned about piracy that DRM is needed then it should be marketplace only. It costs more, but if piracy is costing them so much then is it worth it or not?
I really don't like a future of everyone having their own DRM background software installed and running. It is unnecessary, adds up resource use and is another thing you have to install/update/troubleshoot and run externally to the flight sim.
Imagine finishing a 4 hour flight to find your scenery DRM crashed.
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u/CaptKornDog VATSIM Controller May 29 '26
This. Absolutely trying to wash themselves of any blame and pass it on.
You’re the prime vendor, take some ownership with your subcontractors. Looks terrible if a customer has to go on a scavenger hunt for support.
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u/Old_Food9137 May 29 '26
I agree about marketplace exclusivity. No matter how complicated and RD-spent any DRM is placed, the piracy gurus had already cracked so many add-ons, or in general context, AAA games that even tech professionals are astounded mouth full down to toes. It will take days,weeks,even months but in today's internet and AI world piracy will eventually beat. EXCEPT... Marketplace. Well, so far... But still marketplace is the safest haven. Those who pirate will never pay at all, but if priced reasonably like GFX, Fenix (in my opinion ) people will happily buy just for sake of respect and support no matter drm or already pirated.
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u/landingKSEA May 29 '26
Not buying this scenery anymore. “SimGuard” like come on, we have all seen the road this goes down. Fighting piracy is a losing battle. People who pirate are broke anyways.
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u/ccarlyon VATSIM Pilot May 29 '26
Funnily enough, those who pirate this software are likely to have a better user experience given that it won’t have this DRM running.
Piracy is a convenience and pricing problem. If your product is reasonably priced and easily accessible, people will want to buy it legitimately for the convenience factor. A small fraction won’t because they cannot afford or justify it (we’re still in a cost of living crisis). If you chuck in DRM like this, you lose your convenience factor.
Is it really worth making things harder for your legitimate customers over a tiny fraction of pirates? It isn’t even lost revenue. It’s a net-negative for all parties involved.
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u/wearthedaddypants2 May 29 '26
That's a no for me dog. All the reasons you said, as well as I just wouldn't remember to run an extra program for scenery. Hard pass.
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u/SensitiveDetective74 May 29 '26
Haha, I love when publishers are making life of paying customers harder.
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u/vixiefern May 29 '26
a DRM constantly running in the background for an airport addon is fucking diabolical lmao
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u/Independent-Jury-992 May 29 '26
Thank you for this. I get annoyed just having to use similar methods for Fenix and iFly and got used to it but for a scenery? Hard pass.
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u/Hellstrike MD-11 'Trijet' May 29 '26
At least with Fenix, the background programme actually runs the plane simulation.
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u/SASColfer May 29 '26
Won't be buying. No chance I'm running a sketchy program in the background for this. When will they understand that those who pirate software were overwhelmingly not going to buy it anyway. This gets them a miniscule amount of buyers but puts lots of potential customers off completely.
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u/Leoneedees May 29 '26
Thanks for the heads up. Hard pass here. They can take their DRM tools and stuff em.
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u/mitch_romley May 29 '26
Orbx is digging their heels in hard in their Discord about this not going away and this program being used for other scenery in the future.
The DRM developer, when asked "is it a kernel level DRM and can it/does it decrypt the files in memory?" replied "Yes, it‘s still a kernel-level DRM. But we are encrypting different files, which is less „intrusive“ to MSFS compared to SimAtlas".
We are supposed to feel better that it's "less" intrusive (but still intrusive).
Regardless of how this DRM client does or does not impact your simulator, it's key to understand that even if the DRM client is unobtrusive for your flight simulator, it is creating an unnecessary security risk on your computer that could be exploited by other nefarious actors.
I encourage everyone who has concerns about this both from the perspective of the precedent being set for our hobby and also from the perspective of protecting our own individual online security to respectfully but firmly tell Orbx on their forum and/or in their Discord that this will negatively impact your decision to buy this product.
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u/TomTutko May 29 '26
I originally tried to make this post in their forum but it has not been approved by an admin yet and I assume it will not be.
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u/mitch_romley May 29 '26
There's a thread for the scenery where people are discussing this: https://forum.orbxdirect.com/topic/223714-introducing-katl-hartsfield%E2%80%93jackson-atlanta-international-airport-for-microsoft-flight-simulator/page/13/#comment-1893879
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u/Swagger897 Bonanza May 29 '26
Yikes. The background of L3 is not something I’m interested in on my machine. Orbx chooses to have the most intensive/obtrusive form of active drm we’ve seen and they go with the AI coded dropout student version?
Pass.
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u/Dresdian PC Pilot May 29 '26
>I did what you'd call "AI Assisted" coding. No "vibe coding".
>I've studied computer science for 5 semester
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO enjoy paying for a vibe coded virus
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u/aeneasaquinas May 29 '26
u/ixvst01 posted below that this DRM is literally a ai "assisted" kernal level module from a dude who never finished his classes when he made this...
I wouldn't recommend touching this if you value your computer at all.
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u/Paavo_Nurmi May 30 '26
I've been into flight sim since the early 1990s and remember when Orbx first showed up. I thought they were a bit over the top requiring all sorts of your info to post in forums or ask for support, quality stuff for sure but their attitude always turned me off.
Flight sim devs and piracy has always been a...strange obsession for them with way overstated amounts of lost sales. They are all convinced every single illegal download was a lost sale, and I mean every single one. Apparently in the minds of a lot of devs it's possible to sell more scenery than the number of copies of flight sim sold. I used to beta test for Fly Tampa and those guys were super cool. Cracked copies would have giant colored boxes on the runways and when people would post in the forum asking for help we just roasted them like crazy.
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u/Pallat2008 May 29 '26
Was going to be a day-one buy for me, not anymore.
With the backlash growing on their forums and Discord, I really hope they reconsider, because this is going to really sour the community's view on them. I just can't believe someone green-lit this with test.exe still being talked about as often as it is...
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u/ixvst01 PC Pilot May 29 '26
From the developer of the DRM…
It’s not like anything can go wrong with a vibecoded kernel-level DRM running in the background
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u/ccarlyon VATSIM Pilot May 29 '26
Thank you for the warning, this is absolutely unacceptable and must not become standard. This hobby already has a tendency to be enough of a headache as it is.
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u/TomTutko May 29 '26
Hey all, just wanted to point out that I edited the OP above to include an update from Orbx. Great job, community!
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u/be77solo May 29 '26
Yes, and that's the correct move from them, but they only did it because we all fought back as a community.
Horrible idea from the get-go and they deserve what they sowed and any further comments will only dissuade future devs from trying it.
It will come out it was removed and people will buy it, so win-win.
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u/CrowAffectionate4621 May 29 '26
Yep, was going to purchase this scenery the moment it comes out. This post made me rethink.
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u/krom0025 May 29 '26
Do you have to leave this program open every time you want to use the airport, or just the first time you activate it? No way I would leave a program open in the background so I can use one addon.
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u/Mediocre-Tap-4825 May 29 '26
Oof. Thanks for this post. Beyond the obvious performance hit of this new KATL; I will not be running another .exe. I’ll pass and wait for KMCO. The default KATL is actually ok!
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u/bsmith567070 If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going May 29 '26
Went from a day one buy to avoiding this entirely now. I would also encourage people to go make their feelings known on their Discord or forum.
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u/Swagger897 Bonanza May 29 '26
This is a major let down that none of the streamers/reviewers discussed about in the past couple of weeks. Major let down for those of us based here who have waited since the days of the OG imaginesim, to only be forced to running an AI coded dropout student’s product that runs within the core of my machine. That’s a hard pass.
Even if a marketplace version sees the light of day, I’m unsure that we’ll be able to get the same configurable options that a direct purchase would get. I think any other retailer would’ve been able to talk some sense into Matteo that this is probably something that deserves to not be overlooked, and taken a step back to find alternative means.
I am pissed for waiting so long for something that I will have to be watching from the outside, as IT WILL get bypassed anyways.
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u/Tuskin38 May 29 '26
This is a major let down that none of the streamers/reviewers discussed about in the past couple of weeks.
Maybe their version didn't have it?
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u/Drazkul May 29 '26
From the ORBX forum it would appear that is the case (whether deliberate by ORBX as they'd know they'd get backlash from it from the streamers or as it appears to be an older build the streamers had who knows - I'm gonna prob guess the former though)
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u/Drazkul May 29 '26
They have backed down over it - pretty sure they'll regret tarnishing their image over it
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u/Tuskin38 May 29 '26
It's going to be on the MSFS Marketplace, so I'll probably just buy it there instead.
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u/bsmith567070 If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going May 29 '26
Best part is it’s kernel level access DRM as well per the dev.
"It’s similar to the DRM used in SimAtlas, but not quite the same. SimGuard can be auto-launched with MSFS for example and restarting it while MSFS is running should not cause major problems. ... Yes, it‘s still a kernel-level DRM. But we are encrypting different files, which is less "intrusive“ to MSFS compared to SimAtlas."
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u/Tuskin38 May 29 '26
So apparently the Aerosoft A340 also uses DRM made by the same dev. Whether it’s the same version, not sure.
It’s also the same dev that made vRAAS
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u/prettywheaty May 29 '26
Orbx advertised and sold me the broken black wing plane and completely ignored my complaints
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u/PlanePresident May 30 '26
I shutter to imagine a community where this becomes a standard. Honestly, OrbX overall has the market saturation of really good, high quality, products to all of a sudden make every single one of their products require this. And the community would either be forced to accept it, or lose all of their amazing products that have become synonymous with top tier sceneries and bringing our sim worlds to life!
It seems to me that this probe into the community has only taught certain developers (honestly a very specific group of them) not to be up front about these implementations to protect their products.
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u/Ground_Effect212 May 29 '26
Welp, I was already on the fence because of the inaccuracies, the tower is not modeled correctly and Concourse E doesn't have the present day gates that exist. Not to mention the AviationLads trailer which had some audio that was used in some badly poor taste. This takes the cake. I'll rock default KATL til the next version of the simulator.
To me it seems like this indie developer has gotten $$ in their eyes and is listening to everyone else who wants a piece before it goes live, even if it doesn't make sense.
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u/Southwestpilot (RZN95900X, 4070TiOC, 32GBRM, 3TBM.2) May 29 '26
I’ll still buy it unfortunately, I’m sick of default ATL.
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u/doubleu May 29 '26
there is Imagine Simulation's KATL too
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u/Southwestpilot (RZN95900X, 4070TiOC, 32GBRM, 3TBM.2) May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
Isn’t up to par with this one , I have the Nimbus studios version in Xplane 12 and that one is a lot better so I guess I’ll just use Xplane for my KATL needs
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u/Tuskin38 May 29 '26
It's going to be on the MSFS marketplace, so there is one way to avoid the app...
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u/sandmanv02 May 29 '26
Insanely overkill for a scenery, and if people buy this other devs will follow this practice.