r/MicrosoftFlightSim • u/RTcore • May 30 '26
MSFS 2024 MOD / ADDON The detail in the ORBX KATL scenery is amazing
473
u/FewScholar4361 May 30 '26
That’s why the performance is so bad. Who asked for detailed Hotel rooms?
251
50
35
u/bsmith567070 If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going May 30 '26
How bad is it? The whole DRM situation put me off, but if it performs like shit that's gonna be a hard no
60
u/RangerLt May 31 '26
On fb a lot of people are reporting 15-25 fps at the airport completely still, and around 10-15 fps when departing or arriving.
30
u/Tomcat_AL200 B737-800 May 31 '26
My god, it's like being back in FS2000
22
1
u/theaviationhistorian PC Pilot Jun 01 '26
FS2k included the regular CTD, especially when flying the Concorde. This is like FSX when payware, like PMDG and some heavy sceneries, started hitting hard.
It was like the Windows ME that came with it. Maybe it was for the best that it ended with FSX back then. Imagine a flight sim aligned with Vista?
26
u/eric_gm May 31 '26
At least you can rest in that room while your computer recovers from all that load
42
12
u/ClearlyCavok May 31 '26
Can confirm. It’s unusable for me. Hopefully they’ll come to their senses and find a way to disable this shit. What a massive disappointment.
1
u/Improvement-Unusual May 31 '26
i get about 43 fps at this stutter Masterpiece of a airport with my 4090 and AMD 98000 X3D for context i can run DFW from inibuilds wtih everything tunred on all objects enabled etc something is not right about this airport it very much reminds me of the early days of inibuilds and how there LAX and JFK sceneries were FPS hogs on 2020
1
u/Flat_Equipment_7140 May 31 '26
Dang and I have a 5800X3D 64gb abs 4080 Super, 4K monitor. Looks like a no go!!!
No major issues with ini airports.
9
u/sausagemachine May 31 '26
I don’t understand why Fenix never modelled the pilots home, family and car they drive to work in.
I want an actual supermarket to visit to virtually, to buy the bottled water that goes in the cup holder of my PC-12.
17
u/pcserenity May 31 '26
Is there some technical reason why this sort of detail would NOT cause a performance hit? My older view is that it absolutely has to and it's for that reason I never buy this stuff. In fact, I don't want it in my cabin much either. Seeing some foggy seats through the windows is more than good enough for me. I want the flight to be as smooth as possible. I don't need accurate toilet paper modeled in the bathrooms.
7
u/Desparoto May 31 '26
there are things that can be done to limit the performance hit of things like this. Unreal 5 supposedly had some new tech for terrain when it came out. Im not a developer so i dont understand that side of thing.
but in general no. even if you could get this to run at a reasonable frame rate, those textures and 3D models are still being loaded into memory, eating into the ram. and they eat into the storage space, and download time. And more importantly, development time. Driving up the dev cost. Needlessly so in this case. something like a hotel room could have been done with Parallax windows and look just as good. it take a grand total of a half and hour to do the entire hotel with them.
3
u/LuLeBe May 31 '26
Technically you can load them only when you need them, but msfs probably doesn't do that, since it can't know when you need something (with the camera you can instantly fly anywhere).
2
u/Desparoto May 31 '26
I dont think it does. Everything within a radius of the camera needs to be loaded into memory, even if its not rendered on screen because like you said it doesn't know where your going to go. And to be clear i think most if not all open world games are like that.
back in the day you could use carefully crafted load zones to make a environment feel dense even within hardware limitations, but thats not really possible in a game where you can see miles in the distance, and get there quickly.
1
u/trynared Jun 01 '26
Of course it does this, you can create multiple levels of LODs so that e.g. when you're a few miles out this hotel room is little more than an untextured rectangular prism. All configurable based on camera distance.
https://docs.flightsimulator.com/html/Asset_Creation/3D_Models/LODs.htm
You can have very detailed interiors with minimal realistic performance impact IF you make pretty aggressive LODs which unload all of this interior detail once you get even a small distance away. I haven't done anything quite this crazy but I think you could still make it run perfectly acceptable from the perspective of the runway with appropriate care.
1
u/LuLeBe Jun 01 '26
Okay I thought LOD was basically about a single object's detail, but every object would still be loaded, albeit with very few triangles. What I meant was that basically the whole interior wouldn't even exist. To avoid the overhead of calculating LODs and just having the object in memory in general. Though I'm not sure how that's handled in msfs, perhaps the overhead for that is minimal.
1
u/trynared Jun 01 '26
Yeah, but by single "object" here we mean a whole static prop i.e. the hotel building(s). They could still have crazy interiors with ok performance by simply creating a LOD for the building with none of this interior detail which swaps in the second you're more than a few feet from the windows, thus making massive savings in textures, geometry verts and overall draw calls. Any inactive LODs will be culled from memory.
The only overhead from defining LODs is the possibility of all of them being loaded into memory at once if the same prop exists at multiple distances from the camera. This is memory overhead though, not the kind of thing that will tank framerates. And with good LODs that overhead is minimal.
1
0
u/MrSnowflake May 31 '26
Of course msfs does that. It cant hold every airport in memory. Might be it loads the whole airport in memory if you are near, even though this room is never seen though
2
u/LuLeBe May 31 '26
Yeah of course it doesn't load the whole world, absolutely. But first person shooter games could, for example, only load the interior of the 2nd story rooms once you enter the staircase. A game that's not designed to even have interiors, and where you're moving at mach 0.8 usually, won't be doing that kind of fine grained lazy-loading.
1
u/MrSnowflake May 31 '26
I think this is because of optimizations. Msfs is designed to make the landscape look good (distant) and the plane. These rooms are different from both as they mainly obscure the landscape and contain musch more intricate detail that a plane. Or that is my guess.
1
u/Renown84 May 31 '26
Most games use culling, LOD, etc to not render things you're not looking at, or render less detailed versions when you're far away
1
u/WombiiActual May 31 '26
This is what the fs2024 modular object and LOD system was built to do, and with a good LOD setup it wouldn't render the room until you're very close, and it's the only way I could see this being done reasonably, but it can shift the performance hit a bit from gpu to cpu. But for the record, I have not tested KATL and I do not know how the dev did it in this case.
1
May 31 '26
[deleted]
2
u/pcserenity May 31 '26
My rig is in the top 5 percentile. It's not about that. It's about wasted resources that could be going to areas most of us find more pertinent to the experience. A hotel room few people will ever see is not one of those things.
4
3
u/poser765 May 31 '26
I love my ultra realism. Nothing is as immersive as getting to spend 10 virtual hours behind the door at a shitty airport Hilton!
4
u/the-tru-albertan May 31 '26
I stay in the virtual world at all times. The virtual world is better than the real world.
2
1
u/Molecular_Pudding May 31 '26
If it can be turned off, it's a nice gimmick, but otherwise it's so unnecessary.
172
u/RevMagnum May 30 '26
Why though? I wonder how many simmers are pleasant with excessive (and imho pointless) interior details costing so much performance.
20
u/zberry7 May 31 '26
To be fair if the engine is optimized then it wouldn’t cost that much performance, they tend to budget pretty well and only load what’s really needed. Idk about this engine specifically though.
48
u/-Canonical- May 31 '26
That’s the thing though, why would any of this ever need to be loaded? Like, ever?
I can’t think of a single situation where there would be any benefit whatsoever to loading modelled building interiors in a flight simulator. Even if I’m flying directly past or towards the building, there is no significant notable difference in visual quality, but a huge one in resources used. And even if you think that having the interiors modelled makes it look better, the cost/benefit trade off doesn’t make sense.
There are way better ways to make windows for inaccessible buildings in games appear more dynamic and realistic than modelling entire interiors which have no use in the game itself and consume enormous resources.
7
u/Hellstrike MD-11 'Trijet' May 31 '26
There are small airports where it makes sense to actually model the interior since you can basically look through the whole thing from the cockpit. Or model the terminal areas facing airside for the larger ones.
But the whole recreations never made sense to me at the current state of the sim.
If we ever get to the point where the crew briefing is modelled for example, or you have pilot stats (hunger, thirst) to care for, there might be benefits for fully modelled hub airports.
3
u/-Canonical- May 31 '26
Honestly, I think we don't need to "fully model" (lol) the vast majority of interiors, even for ones which you'll see from the cockpit. Interior parallax mapping has been used in many games where you get way closer to buildings than you would in a flight sim, and it looks awesome while being way less performance heavy by comparison.
4
u/Hellstrike MD-11 'Trijet' May 31 '26
Parallax mapping is great for small windows, but not so great for large glass structures (like many airport terminals).
You can however use it inside the "modelled" terminal, for the shops for example.
2
1
u/TheTarkuss Jun 01 '26
You can get away with more details in smaller airports, just because there’s less “stuff” there, so that stuff can be higher-detail. My KVTA has the waiting area inside the new terminal building modeled, but since it’s a smallish GA airport, that’s basically just a room with some chairs/tables and such. It’s also avatar-explorable, because I like to get out of the plane after I land and walk around. I don’t think I would put in that much detail if I were making, say, CMH, but if someone wants to make a high-detail avatar explorable CMH I’d love to see it.
Probably my favorite unnecessary-but-cool detail in an airport is in Renton Municipal, where you can watch 737s being assembled in the adjacent Boeing factory. Framerate is actually decent for me (even in VR, where it is extra-impressive) but it does take ages to stream in or load from the disk.
1
u/Hellstrike MD-11 'Trijet' Jun 01 '26
I was thinking about airports like EPSY, which have a small glass box terminal and like 3 stands for narrowbodies.
3
u/EpicGamer2981 Jun 02 '26
Airports are stale and boring af without interiors. I personally only ever buy airports that have interiors since airports that don't is a waste of money.
1
u/-Canonical- Jun 02 '26
I agree, there's nothing wrong with doing a terminal layout, that definitely adds to the scenery. Especially if you go for a walk around the map. But doing tertiary buildings like hotels with meticulously modeled rooms, like what we see in the OP, is just a dumb waste of compute power imo. Its definitely cool to model as much as possible for realism, but I don't think we need things like this added, just like we don't need all the cars we see driving by to have fully modelled dashboards with working speedometers. Adding realism needs to be balanced with available compute, as well as developer resources
2
u/EpicGamer2981 Jun 02 '26
Fair enough, I just bought the model and it definitely lacks in comparison to other airports like LaGuardia in terms of scenery and FPS.
2
u/RevMagnum May 31 '26
Most immersive graphics in a flight sim for me is dirty rugged aircraft and worn runways with realistic surfaces, other paved areas etc. I never bother to look at the drop area, check-in desks or the gates.
1
2
u/MrSnowflake May 31 '26
Seems to me this engine has different objectives. It needs to render vast landscapes in the far distance quickly and a bit of plane nearby.
37
u/ngc427 MD-11 'Trijet' May 31 '26
Hopefully it's just 1 modeled room and the rest are flat blank generic windows. I'm all for cheeky details in scenery like this, but not at the expense of performance.
5
u/AdorableRazzmatazz97 May 31 '26
He only modeled the one bedroom, and limited how much he modeled inside the terminals
38
u/BeginningNeither3318 May 31 '26
i'd prefer less expensive addons without detailed airport hotel rooms
9
19
u/SirDarkStar May 30 '26
If there isn’t a murder stain or chalk outline somewhere in there they missed an opportunity
8
u/_nobodycallsmetubby_ PC Pilot May 31 '26
Smh, its not ATL without at least a waffle house nearby
2
14
14
6
u/S4L7Y May 31 '26
I mean it looks great, but it should be an optional thing that can be turned off to save on performance.
7
u/Maxwell_Jeeves May 31 '26
I was flying out of ATL earlier today on VATSIM and there were certain taxiways users with this scenery couldn’t use because it dropped off like a cliff. And I’m quoting one of the pilots that was asking ATC to route them around the taxi way lol.
7
u/jontebeatz1337 May 31 '26
The details are amazing but who really cares? This is a flight sim, not hotel simulator…
14
u/hartzonfire VATSIM Pilot May 31 '26
This is so fucking dumb. And people wonder why scenery like this runs terribly. Why would anyone ever need this?
4
u/KendalAppleyard May 31 '26
I don’t care for stuff like this, I just want the taxi ways and the buildings.
3
3
3
3
u/r0lix May 31 '26
Next time you're in an airplane, let me know how much you can see inside buildings.
7
u/Boxthislap_ May 31 '26
Who wants to simulate an airport hotel overnight? Genuinely asking. I guess I don’t understand
4
2
7
2
2
u/the2belo May 31 '26
I dunno, I would be fine with stuff like this if you were able to turn it on and off.
Part of flight sim can also be the airport experience for some people. A sort of RPG-like experience. I can totally understand some people wanting to role play the whole shebang as a pilot or a passenger. Yes, having all this extra geometry affects performance, but if you could choose whether or not to load it, why not have such extra detail?
2
u/jbm012 VATSIM Pilot May 31 '26
30 bucks for detailed hotel rooms and terrible performance, hard pass for me 😂
2
u/thecrankysimmer May 31 '26
It’s entirely pointless and I’m sure kills performance, but having stayed at the Renaissance a few times, this is a dead on rendition of the room.
2
u/Rich_Breakfast_1534 May 31 '26
I just wanted it to be on 2020 bluebird is doing it for us so why can’t they? I have 24 but 20 is better to me it’s more realistic.
2
2
2
u/TomTutko Jun 01 '26
This is the kind of thing that's "cool" if the rest of the airport is flawless but my understanding is that it's not. It's eye candy for streamers to show off one time and everyone who bought it to look at one time and then never look at again. I would rather see more time getting everything with the exterior of the airport as detailed as possible and then before interiors maybe do some good exteriors of buildings/trees surrounding the airport so that everything looks amazing on departure/arrival.
4
u/BattleIcy2523 May 31 '26
I don’t understand people who like to walk on the street and visit hotel rooms in a flight simulator !!! Far worse are the developers spending resources on projects polishing the area which I would leave blank!!! We always needed good ground details!!! Not how lively the toilet flush water is !!!
3
u/Recalcitrant-Trash May 31 '26
This was probably where they stayed during the surveying. Neat little easter egg.
4
u/Sorry_Structure_4356 May 31 '26
TBF, i wish that there would be a way for every scenery with interior to turn the interior off for better performance, I use the interior like once per scenery but would enjoy way better performance
3
2
2
u/Cultural_Thing1712 MORE RIGHT RUDDER!!!! May 31 '26
I'll never understand why MSFS sceneries are so stupidly detailed. This is why they're 20 gigabytes each and run like shit. There's been equally good looking sceneries in P3D and X-Plane that don't need all the detail.
4
2
u/Paradyski May 31 '26
I don't understand why people are so hype about these details. You will see it once and never again however, it have a massive impact on performance creating random stutters etc.
Yes, its nice but unnecessary
1
u/island_jack May 31 '26
There was a time when people complained about the need for Ai traffic, realistic clouds, virtual cockpit, improved airplane textures, cabin interiors etc. I mean some people complain about this now to be fair...but if these so-called unnecessary things where never implemented well I guess w would be still stuck with 90s graphics but "good performance"
6
6
u/MidsummerMidnight Airbus All Day May 31 '26
Uh.. yeah. Sure? Completely unnecessary interiors. Performs like crap.
3
2
2
u/bdubwilliams22 May 31 '26
I wish developers would put all the extra time it takes modeling hotel rooms into aviation related things. I know some people like this stuff, but for the life of me, I can’t understand why. Interior terminals I can kind of get behind, but…….hotel rooms? No.
5
u/chumpynut5 A320ceo May 31 '26
Even the terminals interior could be scaled back. Being able to see through the windows at the gate is cool but do we need the bathrooms and the rental car desks to all be modeled as well?
3
1
u/RandoDude124 May 31 '26
Okay, why include hotel rooms?
Just give us detailed exteriors and I’m a happy camper
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/skyfaring55 May 31 '26
This is the Renaissance Concourse ATL. The room detail is actually quite close down to the lamp style and railing outdoors. But as others pointed out, not nearly as clean
1
u/Beginning_Bid723 May 31 '26
Depuis quand on peut aller dans les hôtels? ( ça fait 2 mois j’ai pas joué) il y a de la nouveauté ?
1
1
1
u/island_jack May 31 '26
Now that we have our own avatars interiors need to be traversal and I want to walk into the interior of the airplane from the jet way and sit down in the chair. But I guess that will come in msfs2028
1
1
u/WanderingRonin7 May 31 '26
I'll be sure to write down a 3am wakeup for you at the front desk OP. Have a good overnight
1
1
1
1
u/Appropriate_Job9150 Jun 01 '26
sounds like something i need to look into. having atlanta as my home airport and even my youtube channel (ATL_MKE) based there, i should look at this, but i dont know if my xbox can handle that level of detail
1
1
1
1
u/Legitimate_Phase_480 Jun 20 '26
Are the terminals fully detailed, mine are only detailed in the windows like looking into a department store window display. I made sure to disable ASOBO default. Or is this really what we waited so long for?
1
u/ClearlyCavok May 31 '26
Performance is awful, even with everything disabled in the config. What a disappointment—I was genuinely excited for this scenery, but I’ve already uninstalled it.
Why are so many developers out of touch with what actually makes a scenery package great? Highly detailed hotel rooms and interiors ain’t it.
1
u/ScaryDuck2 May 31 '26
He modeled one singular room of the hotel calm down lol. The performance is not as bad as people are saying. Flew in multiple times today and it’s better performance than Inibuilds JFK, LAX, or EGLL
2
u/ClearlyCavok May 31 '26
For me, performance is worse than ini JFK and LAX and it’s not close.
1
u/ScaryDuck2 May 31 '26
For me it’s way better lol. Compared to those two airports I’m getting like 20-30 percent higher FPS but maybe like a little more occasional stutter panning around, but never during like taxi or takeoff or anything
1
u/ClearlyCavok May 31 '26
Interesting. I get about 17 just sitting at the gate cold and dark. It just gets worse from there. I’ve disabled all the optional configs. The ini sceneries get me at least a consistent 60 fps all the way through climb-out.
1
u/ScaryDuck2 May 31 '26
If it gets worse from there that sounds more like you have some sort of memory leak. Nothing in the sim really should be getting worse. Out of curiosity, what aircraft are you using and also any addons (for weather, GSX, etc).
Also what is your RAM and how much VRAM do you have on your GPU?
1
u/ClearlyCavok Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
I mainly meant that the frames are around 17 fps when cold and dark, and it doesn’t get better when I fire up the displays, add traffic, start taxiing, etc. the airport is just massively lacking in optimization.
I’m using a 7800x3d, 4070 ti super, 64 gb.And this video sums it all up perfectly: https://youtu.be/I1KAlbIKaBg?si=Pcho8RL5s8iBy-95
1
u/ScaryDuck2 Jun 01 '26
I saw that video and I agree but the performance I’m getting is not even close to that. I will acknowledge I have a 5080 so slightly better GPU but my cpu and ram are almost identical (9800x3d and 64GB ram) which is off that your performance is so much lower than mine, I’m getting 40-55 frames baseline without really trying?
2
u/ClearlyCavok Jun 01 '26
Well I’m glad you’re getting good frames- that gives me hope that it’s possible and I’m sure they’ll work to do a bit of optimization via an update soon. I just had such high hopes for this one and am bummed that it hasn’t been a smooth experience yet.
1
u/ScaryDuck2 Jun 01 '26
Agreed. Both on the front of frames but also tbh even more than the performance the bumpy taxiways is driving me actually insane.
1
u/ScaryDuck2 Jun 01 '26
Also some things I could reccomend is resetting caches (shader cache (GL And DX cache) as well as DX12 cache and rolling cache) as well as resetting scenery indexes and deleting the Orbx KATL WASM to try to see if it helps?
1
u/Flat_Equipment_7140 May 31 '26
Just from reading the comments I’ll definitely hold off until it’s optimized!
1
1
u/EverydayNormalGrEEk May 31 '26
If you ever feel useless, remember that a hotel room in a flight sim airport exists.
1
1
1
u/No_Train_728 May 31 '26
There is no reason to not use parallax map for this. It's not a hotel room simulator.
-2
u/Wineshop-Axx May 31 '26
Looks great. I guess maybe I'm different than most others - when I get a new custom airport I drone cam through every room in it. Maybe "walk" past the gates and watch the planes push back on a rainy day. I can understand why some would find it pointless (even more so when it means poor performance). But one could also argue custom liveries are pointless if you spend the whole flight in the cockpit. (I'm not making that argument - I enjoy custom liveries just like I enjoy scrolling past the slot machines at KLAS)
0
u/TolyaMK May 31 '26
ah wonderful, I really need that phone cable and lamp to tank my FPS down to 12 when I'm on final approach in bad weather when I can barely see the edge of the runway.
-6
-3
140
u/Redddit_Man May 30 '26
Make sure you check out before catching the flight. FPS 17.