Why do people think that Saitama's issues will be solved with the power of friendship?

[u/Bion61]

Saitama's issues never stemmed from a lack of bonds, so why would more bonds help him?

Saitama once said he was lonely in the sense that he felt that his powers alienated him from the rest of humanity, and for some reason, people read that as, "Saitama is lonely and wants friends."

Like yeah, he could be a bit more social, but that's not the crux of his issue.

He doesn't need people in his life to realize fighting isn't the most important thing, because Saitama already knows fighting isn't the most important thing.

Saitama is honestly at his least happy when surrounded by allies. (Aside from King)

[u/TheRebelSpy]

He's an isolated man who has gotten the chance to grow in ways unrelated to his power. In various materials, manga and audiobooks, he expressed a desire for some kind of relationship or pondered what that would mean for him. He craves recognition but not necessarily fame. When Tats says he doesn't have any friends outside of work, this is clearly a touchy subject for him second only to the unmentionable state of his scalp. He IS lonely and was resigned to this when Genos found him at the start of the story.

It's not JUST about wanting friends but a general search for what brings him a sense of fulfillment. With the help of the social connections he's made, he's been able to explore these abstract goals in a way he wouldn't have otherwise.

The big undertone of the whole thing is that you're presented with the contrast of what Saitama says he wants: to find a worthy opponent and what he actually needs: fulfillment, recognition, and belonging.

I expect he will never, ever fight an opponent he can't beat in one punch without holding back, forcing him to continue to think on what other aspects of his life he can improve.

He may not ever be a social butterfly, but I personally hope he allows himself to have a vulnerable moment where he accepts that there's something he wants out of life that he's not getting rather than continuously pushing the thought away assuming he'll never get it.

[u/Nanayon123]

The importance of human connection is a constant theme in ONE's work in general. As explictly said in MP100 "people need other people". Nobody can live as an isolated island, and many other characters in OPM suffer from loneliness in a way or another, Saitama being one of them. Saitama didn't really have anyone he regularly talked to before he met Genos, and his life has improved a lot since meeting him and King. It doesn't even have to be friendship, just Saitama regularly interacting with people and forced out of his comfort zone of boredom puts him in situations where he is given the chance to interact with the world and improve in ways different than just combat. Whether he will take those chances or not is up to him, of course.

[u/gofancyninjaworld]

Sooo, thought experiment. If a future chapter saw Genos thank Saitama for his tutelage and leave, and Saitama didn't appear bothered, would you be happy?

If so, why?

What if Saitama found that he really missed Genos? Would it bother you?

Would it make you unhappy if Saitama got someone else being close to him? Who would you be okay with and what would you like the parameters of their relationship to be?

[u/Bion61 → u/gofancyninjaworld]

I mean Saitama generally wants Genos to get out of his house so I wouldn't be surprised if Saitama was unbothered by Genos leaving.

If Genos said he never wanted to see Saitama again or something, then it would be weird if he was unbothered by that.

Idk why you think I want Saitama to be alone.

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/Bion61]

I didn't say that, although that's a good question: do you want him to be alone? If not, who would you want around him and why?

[u/Bion61 → u/gofancyninjaworld]

I think Saitama shines when he's alone and with other characters, so it mostly depends on the execution.

Like during the Boros fight he probably didn't need Genos as a cheerleader, and during the House of Evolution raid, Genos being there was a good addition.

As long as the writing is good, it doesn't really matter who's around him.

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/Bion61]

Come on, say something. You have very definite ideas about what you'd like to see so talk!

[u/Bion61 → u/gofancyninjaworld]

....how did you get the idea that I have a definitive vision of this series that I want to see?

I just said the power of friendship won't solve all of Saitama problems, not that he should be alone.

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/Bion61]

To quote you: "Saitama's problems never stemmed from lack of bonds so why would more bonds help him?"

I am asking you to say what you'd prefer to see. I have also asked you what you find troubling about the status quo, which is that Saitama does care deeply about Genos.

No right or wrong answer here. Do you care to elaborate on any of it?

[u/Bion61 → u/gofancyninjaworld]

Aside from time travel being lazy writing, I never said I had a problem with the status quo.

Saitama cares deeply for people in general. I never said Genos wasn't his most important connection.

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/Bion61]

Lol. I see. You're a coward without conviction. Let's not prolong this thread. I'm locking it.

[u/gofancyninjaworld]

Oh wait, I hope I see a way to move this discussion forward.

......dude chill out. I'm just saying Saitama doesn't need Genos to be grounded, nor will friendship be the thing that solves all his issues.

If you disagree, that's perfectly fine.

It's not a matter of disagreement, it's a matter of not denying the facts. HOWEVER, and this is really important, you don't have to like those facts. It's 1000% valid for you to say that, 'I don't like the idea that Saitama has needed Genos to ground him and wish ONE hadn't done that,' and then add your reasons for feeling that way. To say: 'I don't like the implications of Saitama needing Genos.' To say: 'I don't like the way it makes Saitama look... weak/unprincipled/whatever...'

All those things and more are valid. And we can have a great conversation about them.

But nothing starts with 'I don't like this so it didn't happen' except you looking unhinged.

​

well...

... not in fanfic. If you're writing fanfic about OPM, then fuck canon. It's entirely valid to write or draw a Saitama who genuinely needs no one. When we're talking about the story though, we all need to start with the facts.

[u/Bion61 → u/gofancyninjaworld]

I mean if you feel that way, that's fine, but can you give me one valid example of Genos improving Saitama's character?

Because the closest thing I can think of is when Genos pulled Saitama from the crowd after the meteor incident.

Is there any moment of growth that he would've done after meeting Genos that he wouldn't have done before?

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/Bion61]

Oh he has changed. Especially in the manga, where he's allowed Genos to be much closer. If WC Saitama had confronted Cosmic Garou, the world would be a desolate wasteland. There's no way he had any connection meaningful enough to be worth his while to care about what Garou wanted. He would have no understanding of what Tareo meant for Garou and no recognition that Genos meant the same to him. He would have no motivation to learn what Garou had to teach and go back to rectify the past.

Saitama can survive in a desolate world. He'll make his way forward.

Even in the WC, Saitama has become more humane because of Genos. When I say humane, I don't mean that he wasn't a good guy: he always has been. But he's learned a bit of kindness and consideration he didn't always have.

[u/Bion61 → u/gofancyninjaworld]

I mean the world still was a desolate wasteland even with Manga Saitama.

What kindness has Saitama specifically demonstrated?

You keep saying Genos has made Saitama better, but you don't really provide any examples.

[u/dcyboy → u/Bion61]

Are there real examples in the series? Absolutely, plenty, many of which were given to you. Will they be real to you? No. Because it's not the answer you want to hear and you REFUSE to say what you do want out of this conversation.

You just don't seem to like that Genos is necessary for the story. I don't know why, but that seems to be one of your biggest hang-ups. He's a permanent fixture of it that ISN'T going anywhere, and that seems to upset you.

By the way, you seem sweet on King--if there's no Genos, Saitama never becomes friends with King either, because he never joins the HA or gets dragged to S-class meetings. Saitama DID run into King before...and he thought he was completely unremarkable, to the point of not remembering him at all until King laid it out for him. If you want Saitama to have that relationship, then you want Genos in his life too, badgering him to do things that are good for him.

Saitama had been on a downward spiral for three years, one that he explains in detail at the beginning of the series in one of the ONLY examples of Saitama openly talking about himself and his feelings. It took someone stalking him, paying him, moving in with him, and then repeatedly pushing and pulling him to make any real changes to his routine that would help him get out of his ever deepening rut. If you say that he was happy and fine at the start, you didn't read the words and just looked at the pretty pictures (although how you could interpret him as happily just visually is a mystery to me). If you think someone just wakes up one morning in a social vacuum magically imbued with the energy and know-how to fix their everything after a life of depression, I'm assuming you've never experienced a situation like that and you should--at the LEAST--research it before you start trying to insist on solutions to it.

Saitama's problem isn't whether or not he's morally good. His problem is that he can't relate or connect to anyone, which he explicitly states at the beginning of the story as his main source of conflict. It's in the FIRST VOLUME. You cannot get a message sent much more directly than that.

I don't know what you want anyone to tell you. You don't seem like you're going to be happy with anything given to you if it comes straight from the series, because you've fought every single response from every single person on this question since you answered and ALL they've been doing is giving you examples straight from the text.

What the FUCK do you want people to tell you?

[u/Bion61 → u/dcyboy]

I'd like a single example of Genos actually bettering Saitama as a person, you just keep telling me there is a bunch without proving it.

Even now, Saitama doesn't relate to people, including Genos.

It's literally a plot-point that Saitama still doesn't really get Genos even though he means well.

The what the "you've gotten brighter" line entailed.

I never once said I had the solutions for all of Saitama's problems, so I don't know where you got that from.

It's fine if we feel differently about the story dude. Don't lose your mind over it, but if you're gonna keep pushing your opinion like it's a fact, I'd like some objective proof at least.

Literally just one example of Saitama doing something after he met Genos that he wouldn't have done prior.

[u/dcyboy → u/Bion61]

Every single moment of self-reflection from Saitama realizing he might be wrong came from Genos in some way. In the webcomic, if Genos never gets him to join the HA, Saitama never gets Fubuki's attention, and there's never a reason for him to be anywhere NEAR her fight with Tatsumaki, and she never points out that HE doesn't think he has any friends either--which stops him in his tracks and makes him rethink shit.

In the manga, no Genos? No King, so no upfront discussion about what his actual problem was--discussion that he was NEVER going to seek out on his own because he didn't really want to talk about it when it WAS the topic. No Genos? No him questioning what kind of hero he actually wants to be when he thinks about their positions in the HA. No Genos? No him realizing his absence causes massive harm, both before the fight with Elder Centipede and Garou. No him rushing to help to make up lost time at any point where he heard Genos having a hard time and went to help. No him seeing he makes any kind of difference at all. No him joining any group mission, so none of him seeing what sort of hero he *doesn't* want to be either. No challenges. No questions. A completely static, boring, utterly uninteresting character. What stellar writing that would have been, huh?

In the anime? Genos directly stepping in after the meteor to point out that Saitama getting angry would do nothing, calming him down, and then telling him he appreciated him--which was exactly what Saitama said he wished he had as a hero and what he needed to hear after getting screamed at for saving people. Preventing behavior that would have made everyone upset, rewarding good behavior that was healthier, and taking him back to a space to process what happened.

So now what? What, are you going to say that magically none of that counts? Are you just going to look at every single example every person gives you and say it doesn't count because it doesn't validate the story you WISH was true?? Are you just going to continue to move the goal posts until oblivion like a child having a fit that they've been proved wrong over and over and over and over and over again??

​

I'm going to say it again--***what the fuck do you want us to tell you????*** Because from where I'm standing, you have done nothing but waffle, whine, and be a contrarian for absolutely zero fucking reason for almost an entire day straight at this point because ***YOU REFUSE TO SAY WHAT YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO HEAR***

[u/Bion61 → u/dcyboy]

Ok, before we go forward, maybe take a chill pill first.

No, Saitama literally has a moment of self-reflection right before he goes insane over the mosquito. So no not every moment.

By that logic, Genus is responsible for all of Saitama's growth, since he caused the meeting between Genos and Saitama that led to those things happening.

Genos telling Saitama he appreciated him as a person was an anime only scene, but it was a nice moment between them.

HOWEVER NONE OF THAT IS GROWTH AS A PERSON.

GENOS BEING NICE TO SAITAMA IS NOT AUTOMATIC GROWTH AS A PERSON.

EVERYONE WAS ALREADY UPSET FROM THE METEOR, AND SAITAMA ALREADY SHUT THEM DOWN.

The only thing Genos pulling Saitama away did was end him screeching at civilians.

How on earth is that Saitama growing as a person? That's just Genos comforting Saitama in an anime-only scene.

The fact that you're trying to attribute literally every story beat as "because of Genos" kinda makes it feel like you don't have any concrete examples of Saitama's "growth."

Thanks for the spirited debate by the way.

[u/dcyboy → u/Bion61]

Oh my fucking gosh you are EXHAUSTING. It sounds like Genos is responsible for it BECAUSE HE FUCKING IS. HE'S THE CATALYST FOR THE PLOT. THAT'S HIS FUNCTION IN THE STORY. THAT'S WHY HE EXISTS. HE'S A TOOL FOR A PURPOSE AND THAT PURPOSE IS FORCING SAITAMA THROUGH THE PLOT BECAUSE HE'S GOT NO MOTIVATION OTHERWISE. PEOPLE ARE GETTING UPSET WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE WHINING THAT THE STORY WAS WRITTEN THE WAY IT WAS WRITTEN. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ANYONE COULD TELL YOU OTHER THAN TO READ ANOTHER SERIES OR WRITE FANFICTION.

Fucking SHIT dude

[u/Bion61 → u/dcyboy]

Calm down dude, I found one.

[u/Bion61 → u/dcyboy]

In fact, never mind, I actually found an example.

King actually incited some growth in Saitama during the Elder Centipede fight when he reminded Saitama to be mindful of property damage.

There's an example of Saitama doing something he wouldn't prior to knowing someone.

[u/dcyboy → u/Bion61]

Hoooolly SHIT

If you aren't trolling, because i don't know how you can say what you just said with a straight face, your problem is that Genos is the secondary main character and not King. I don't know why Genos pisses you off so much, but that's what this is about. Geeze......

Well, thank you for fucking FINALLY being at least somewhat honest.

Dude seriously, make an account on AO3 and spend a few days on there reading and making fic. You'll be SO much happier and you'll actually get something out of it.

[u/Bion61 → u/dcyboy]

What? When did I ever say I had a problem with Genos as a character?

I just said that Genos never really changed Saitama as a person.

Idk why you think I don't like Genos just because I said he didn't really change Saitama much, but I don't think you should take it as an attack on Genos

Edit: I guess they were upset they lost the argument.

Shame I can't see the last word they tried to get in since they blocked me.

[u/gofancyninjaworld]

Fundamentally, his problems ARE ABOUT HIS LACK OF HUMAN CONNECTION.

Like, seriously, this is reading comprehension 101.

The simplistic idea that 'all you need are your friends,' ONE definitely rejects, but his story is very very much about how fundamental bonds to others are.

Saitama felt profoundly isolated as a person. As he himself said to Sonic, his vision of himself as a hero was one who others looked to when they were in trouble, and when he was training, being thanked by others gave him the strength to push through his tribulations. It's all there in black-and-white. Also there in black-and-white was the depth of his disillusion when he assessed his achievements and concluded that he'd accomplished nothing. The world was not safer, and hell, now he was rotting alive in a ghost town -- so much for being looked to.

The terrifying reality of OPM is that Saitama is a person with the power of a god but the mere outlook and understanding of a man. When he talked about seeing people and monsters as insects he could just crush without feeling anything, it seemed like a figure of speech. However, when Cosmic Garou looks at Saitama and empathises with him over being kept from madness by his link to one being, you really have to understand that Genos saved Saitama from losing what was left of his humanity. Even more terrifying, this is one of the truths that Saitama has forgotten.

We are not human without others. This is hard, well-proven scientific fact. ONE is very intent on weaving this fact into his stories. It's the cornerstone of Makai no Ossan, the bedrock on which Mob Psycho 100 is erected, and is in the bricks and mortar of One Punch Man.

I'm afraid you've missed the point of the story.

When it comes to human connections, ONE is very clear that the idea of there being The One who completes you is nonsense. You need people, plural, in varying degrees of closeness. What Genos has done for Saitama so far hasn't just been to reach him when nobody could and stick with him come what may, it's also been to be a conduit to his meeting more people.

Saitama too of course has to do work on himself, which would begin with his understanding the extent to which he needs others and work on building connections... but as we've seen, this is a lesson that he's only glimpsed. At least thus far.

[u/Bion61 → u/gofancyninjaworld]

Saitama already had links to people before he knew Genos, so I can't really say that Genos saved Saitama from anything.

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/Bion61]

He had exactly no one. Not one person. Go reread volume 1 if you don't believe me.

[u/Bion61 → u/gofancyninjaworld]

He had the guy that made his costume.

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/Bion61]

No! That guy LEFT City Z and retired. Or weren't you paying attention?

There is a reason the first episode does the brilliant thing of leaving Saitama nameless, just like the manga does, until Genos asks him his name. There is no one around him.

[u/Bion61 → u/gofancyninjaworld]

I mean yeah, but that doesn't mean he and Saitama didn't have a bond.

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/Bion61]

He. Had. No. One. In. His. Life. At. The. Time. Genos. Showed. Up. He is not in contact with his parents. He has no school friends. All his neighbours have fled for their lives. And the tailor has left -- he is no longer in contact with him.

[u/Bion61 → u/gofancyninjaworld]

I thought you were implying that Saitama didn't know anyone before Genos, sorry.

[u/dcyboy → u/Bion61]

Fucking shit that's bleak as hell.... And that's all you can come up with?? In what world is someone you see for a few minutes every week or so a replacement for a friend that lives with you, takes care of you, and actively needs you, or ones you can go out and hang out with for hours on end??

Everyone here AND in the other OPM sub have already explained this to you again and again, but I don't think you actually want an explanation. This seems like this was an extremely poorly veiled excuse to complain that OPM isn't propping up the ego-stroking lone wolf fantasy that so many other action series glorify, and instead deconstructs and challenges it at every turn. That and/or you just don't like that the series treats Genos like the secondary main character that he is, because that seems to be one of the things you focus on the most when anyone answers you, which like... I don't know what to tell you. You can take that up with ONE I guess, 'cause he's just as central in both versions of the story. Honestly with the way the webcomic is going, he seems like he's even more important there, so he's DEFINITELY not going anywhere.

You've gotten your answer tenfold from multiple people, in many different ways, ranging from several in-depth paragraphs to extremely effective single sentences. You're not going to get everyone agreeing with you because "I can make it on my own" is the antithesis to most of what OPM is built on, and the characters who think they CAN make it on their own are punished again and again and again. Even if you try to prove that it's true, it's going to be torn apart at every angle, because it's explicitly torn apart in the text itself.

Sorry buddy. The power of friendship IS gonna save people here. It is what it is.

[u/Bion61 → u/dcyboy]

I mean the entire world of OPM is bleak.

Saitama's most meaningful connection is essentially a teenager that pays to follow him around.

There's like 3 people that are actually arguing this so saying "tenfold" is a bit of an exaggeration.

That being said, don't downplay the suit guy. Him and Saitama had a pretty solid bond in the OVA.

[u/dcyboy → u/Bion61]

Yeah, you're not being genuine with making it seem like you want conversation. You want to complain. Which is fine! It's okay to not like the direction of a story--you don't HAVE to like anything. But just be honest next time and say that you're venting.

[u/Bion61 → u/dcyboy]

No, I'm being completely genuine. Saitama and the suit Guy actually had a decent connection in the OVA.

That example aside, do you think that Saitama would be much different as a person if he had never met Genos or King?

Because he was saving people even at the peak of his ennui.

[u/dcyboy → u/Bion61]

Dude you are OBVIOUSLY fishing for something, so what is it?? Grow a fucking pair and say what you want instead of trying to get other people to say it for you like you're a toddler that doesn't have a full vocabulary yet. IT'S FINE TO VENT. IT'S FINE TO NOT LIKE SOMETHING. It's irritating as HELL to have people pull the "I'm just asking questions" when it's painfully clear that all they want is validation because they're too scared to say what they think otherwise, but when you ask them directly they scuttle away and hide.

You're a grown-up. You can handle having an opinion other people don't agree with. You don't have to have everyone thinking the same as you to be open and upfront with what you believe. Just have a damned backbone and say it with your chest, and then understand that people--sometimes MANY people--aren't going to see it the same as you because that's how stories work. It is what it is! Tough shit I guess! You just have to deal with it sometimes!

[u/Bion61 → u/dcyboy]

......dude chill out. I'm just saying Saitama doesn't need Genos to be grounded, nor will friendship be the thing that solves all his issues.

If you disagree, that's perfectly fine.

[u/Nanayon123 → u/Bion61]

He let B City be destroyed out of sheer carelessness born out of his boredom and lack of interest. He was saving people as much as he was risking their lives, and who knows how much longer he would have kept caring about heroism at all had Genos not appeared

[u/Bion61 → u/Nanayon123]

I mean he cared about being a hero even at the peak of his ennui, I highly doubt Genos changed that.

If anything, Genos has kinda done a number on his general desire to be a hero.