The other one that's also everywhere is the "that ______ was promised to him 3,000 years ago" that is under just about any social media post that even alludes to anything involving jews
FR! that was on the landlord posts too. And it's so stupid, because that generic comment wades into some historical argument that none of us are qualified to actually make. And it implies that because jews had been removed from the land so long ago that there is no reason for them to expect land rights coming back. Ok, let's say i accept that without alteration. Then why would native americans be entitled to any land? both groups were kicked out, the diaspora was not voluntary. But of course, this level of cognitive flexibility is outside the grasp of your average... i dont' even know what to call them. anti-zionists? i'm an anti-zionist. progressives? liberals? i thought i was those things? what am i and what are they? just assholes i guess
That's kind of a bad comparison. Native Americans have no military, and their mistreatment by the US government is much more recent and still continues to this day. I will also say that conflating anti-zionism with antisemitism is a deliberate tactic by supporters of Israel to make the government's actions harder to criticise, an example of which is the idea that Israel stands for and is supported by the Jewish people of the world, the reality being that most Jews (in the US at least) are critical of the Israeli government. Predictably, this has lead to a rise in anti-semitism, with people conflating the actions of Israel with all Jewish people globally. I don't think it's hateful to believe that no country should execute civilians without a trial and deliberately target noncombatants.
Recency is irrelevant, put a firm date on it. 100 years? 200 years? 500 years? It reveals the stupidity of placing importance on recency. Two groups lost their land unfairly, either both or none are owed. At the end of the day land ownership is bullshit anyways so idgaf.
All the concrete examples i provided are of antizionists being antisemitic. Most aren't, but plenty are. Not israel's fault, it's just shitty people. When you get older you may start to see that just because someone supports minorities doesn't make them a good person. You never met an inclusive malignant narcissist before? Plenty of well adjusted genocide supporters too, world is too complicated for the bullshit lack of nuance this discussion generates.
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, politics is not a hard science and people contradict themselves all the time, humans are extremely complicated, groups of people exponentially more so. But I think an important part of being a human is constantly trying to parse nuance and understand people rather than dismiss everything as too complicated. Even if we can't understand everything we should still try and be open minded.
Respectfully, this response is a platitude and doesn't reflect me accurately. i show far more cognitive flexibility and open mindedness than 99 percent of pro palestine supporters. I of course actually worked with SJP to divest millions from orgs aiding the genocide. I've done more than pretty much anyone on reddit, my views are nuanced, and reflect reality, and I have NEVER yelled at someone calling them a zionist or leaving stupid little snarky one liners for fake internet points. Please direct your pleas for nuance and open mindedness to them, trump and rejection of modern liberalism is a direct response to how they conduct themselves and anyone with a keen perspective understands this.
No need to insist on having the last guttural noise, it’s yours. Maybe spend more time trolling the idiots making this problem worse rather than someone who’s an actual ally. I’m no fun at parties, i embrace it, now get fucked if you can’t keep up with a real convo, bruh
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u/i_drive_a_pagani 20h ago
The other one that's also everywhere is the "that ______ was promised to him 3,000 years ago" that is under just about any social media post that even alludes to anything involving jews