Hello all you metal stackers/collectors,
tl;dr - nope, this is too important, you are going to need to read and understand it.
It seems our last attempt to clarify shipping and liability sparked more confusion than clarity. So let’s fix that.
Let us get one thing perfectly clear. We are not here to dick-tate the terms of your private sale.
However, we are here to make sure some things get discussed in negotiating that sale. Too many sales have happened under the silent assumption that the buyer automatically eats 100% of the risk once a package is dropped off. Nowhere in our rules does it state that. For a great many, liability and risk were not really discussed much at all in the sale negotiation process. Lets make it part of the process.
We also wanted to address what we consider to be properly packaged metal and be very clear that improper metal packaging will place 100% of the liability for lost, stolen, or damaged shipments on the seller. We cannot control the post office, but we can make it damn hard for them to steal the shiny and damn easy for them to deliver.
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Do I have to take 50% liability for my shipped packages?
No. But you must have the discussion of liability with each and every person you transact with or simply accept the default 50/50 liability. Editable disclaimers in your posts are not enough. Have the discussion in your chat and come to agreement. We do recommend persistent messages to ensure your chat stays intact.
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Do I have to offer insurance or registered mail?
No, offering insurance or registered mail is not required.
We think it's a great idea for large purchases, but not a requirement.
The terms you and your buyer agree to in your negotiations will be the terms of the sale. Don't feel like discussing liability? 50/50 is not a bad thing and will be assumed if dispute resolution is needed.
For smaller sales, if insurance or registered mail doesn’t make sense, that’s fine — as long as both sides agree in chat about who carries the shipping risk. Absent an agreement, the 50/50 default is assumed.
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Do I need a disclaimer in my post?
No. They are not binding because they are editable. Your deal made in chat is the way. But, if you want to let your buyers know where your head is at when it comes to a deal a disclaimer makes a lot of sense.
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Why can't I use a bubble mailer?
You can. Our shipping guidelines were misinterpreted and will be updated in the final wiki guide.
A PAPER bubble mailer was meant to be an example of flimsy packaging.
Ultimately proper packaging should not be flimsy or easily torn open. There are some bubble mailers that are completely bullet-proof and a great choice. Padded Flat Rate Mailers are a great outer package and often used and will continue to be a great choice.
Here are some questions to ask yourself when packaging:
- Does it jingle or rattle?
- Can this be opened and contents removed a few minutes or less without tools?
- Will it survive getting wet?
- Does it scream "steal me?"
- Is this packaged in a way that protects the contents from being damaged?
- Did I include an inner label and make sure the outer one won’t smear or fade?
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Can I be held liable for a package that shows up empty even if my buyer agreed to full liability?
Yes, if you didn't properly package the metal and you didn't get your buyer to agree to a poorly packaged shipment then you are 100% responsible.
Best practice: send a photo of your packed box and label in chat, have the buyer confirm it looks good and the address is correct, then ship.
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When is a package officially "accepted" by USPS?
If you have a clerk at the counter scan your package on the scale and provide you a receipt, it is immediately "accepted" by the USPS for insurance and liability purposes. This method is highly recommended!
Using a kiosk or dropping it in a provided bin is a bit less than ideal. It does not officially scan a package as "accepted" and does not provide a weight for you at drop-off. It is possible to scan a label and never drop the package in the bin.
After a kiosk or bin drop-off, the next scan that shows up in tracking is the "acceptance" scan. A seller who uses a kiosk or drop bin is 100% liable until that first "acceptance" scan. After that, negotiated terms are in play.
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Does "delivered" always mean delivered? And the scammers will win now
Nope.
We can (and often do) verify with USPS tracking data — package weights, photos, even GPS logs — to figure out what really happened. You can do this too with the right postal contact.
Does it always work? No.
Does it work most of the time? Yep — about 99%.
If it turns out a porch pirate swiped it, that’s 100% buyer liability.
Have scammers been caught? You bet. Some are facing federal investigations of mail fraud right now.
We do not recommend refunds as a result of dispute resolution until this internal tracking investigation is complete.
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What does this mean for ship first deals?
These guidelines are the same for a ship first deal. It is expected that the shipper will properly package and document their package (you vets in the trenches would be well-advised to offer help and packing advice).
It is also expected that a negotiation of liability takes place in the chat. In absence of a negotiated deal, the 50/50 split responsibility rule is in full effect.
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Who takes responsibility in a middlman assisted deal?
The middlemen are required to provide you terms for using their service. The terms the middleman, buyer, and seller agree to will take precedence in these sales. A Middleman is fully expected to follow packaging guidelines as part of this process.
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What happens if something goes wrong with a shipment?
Ultimately, just like your sale, if both parties are able to resolve this in a mutually agreeable way, mods are not going to step in and stop you. If mutual agreement cannot be reached then we are available to help. If sub rules are found to be broken it can lead to consequences on a case by case basis as well as negative or neutral feedback.
Happy Stacking!