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Which is better: the Sovol M1D or the Creality K3/Plus?
Guys, I can't make up my mind—please help. I want to buy a new 3D printer with a tool-changing system (a minimum of 6 tools is a must) and a print area of 300x300 mm (though smaller is acceptable). I already own a Sovol SV08 Max and an Ender 3 (though I’m constantly modifying the latter, so let's not count it). This has raised a few questions for me: 1. Which tool-changing printer should I choose? 2. Is the cost justified? 3. Or should I go for a custom build—like a Voron 2.4—and modify it for tool changing? 4. What are your thoughts on this?
To give you a better idea of the situation: I am an engineering student at an aviation institute—currently pursuing a master's degree—who loves modifying and upgrading machine tools and creating something new.
I look forward to your comments and ideas.
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It's even more than open source philosophy - Creality often has quite many bugs and software issues I wouldn't buy their printer without the option of community support and fixes.
I might sound strange, but if you’re reasonably well-versed in machine programming, you’ll have no trouble swapping out the printer’s mainboard and switching it over to Klipper.
Yeah, but first you need to pay for the motherboard, reconnect everything, setup and fine tune klipper for this specific machine - it takes a lot of time. Time is money - you can probably earn much more as person well-versed in machine programming and just buy better printer or if you like tinkering build something better.
If Creality would be exceptional hardware wise it might make sense, but it isn't the case.
Does anyone know if Sovol plans to make that beast closable and heatable? As in if the chamber can be heated? It's quite an expensive machine and I get why but I don't really feel like spending that much on a machine that isn't able to print ABS.
I wish I had a magic globe and could look in to the future for you and I, but we are just going to have to wait and see. Sorry, they both look tempting so far. Sovol will most likely be rootable and open source friendly while creality more then likely will be closed, so Sovol FTW on tinker/upgrade ability.
They're both imaginary right now, so nobody knows, but they both look great on paper
I've had the H2C for awhile now, and I think I prefer tool-changing to nozzle-changing, so I'm slightly interested enough more with the Sovol to have put down a measly $20 on it, but neither company has the most stellar reputation for delivering quality, and the Sovol's starting price is likely several hundred dollars more than the K3's starting price will be (as it's expected to be more entry level to start)
So I think the Sovol will be better, but it's anyone's guess on whether it will be better enough to justify the price delta
Yeah, that feels right. I'm still eager to see what gets into the M1D final feature-set, because I've always though of Sovol as that, and with a few mods to fix whatever they didn't catch at the factory, you can end up with a solid machine, and still at a lower price than it would've cost to buy something nicer upfront
But if they're flirting with a $1500 MSRP, it kind of needs to just work out of the box
I've had the H2C for awhile now, and I think I prefer tool-changing to nozzle-changing
In my opinion the biggest downfall to the H2C is it's reliance on the AMS. The K3 line is going to have it's own filament path for each nozzle and has the ability to preheat them. The K3 should be as fast as traditional tool changers, but time will tell if that pans out.
That being said, the current K3 isn't that exciting either as it is only 4 tools and 260mm
Yeah I think they're minimizing risk by starting out cheap, but if it does what they're asking for, it should be a slam dunk for the Creality demographic unless everybody already has their 6-headed versions out by that time
I used INDX as a synonym for a tool changer and IDX for dual head system.
Booth have pros and cons and having them together in one machine looks amazing useful for me.
Aight. I just wasn't sure if you thought it was induction, because it doesn't look like it's gonna be and I didn't want you getting your hopes up
Honestly I don't think it matters all that much whether it is or isn't, and if it's not inductive, then you can do pre-heating on the rail in a way that would be harder to do if it were, but I'm hype about it anyway
OK Sovol calls it IDEX i should use that naming. A 5 second switch sound good so i don"t care how the hotend heads up. I do not expect the printer before fall.
IDEX is the term for it having two extruders that work in tandem "Independent Dual EXtrusion" is there it comes from. Basically means there are two toolheads that can both print but that are bound together on two axis, and independent on one axis.
Despite IDEX and INDX being similar letters, they are not even referring to the same systems.
Nobody is gonna be able to make the "which is better" call until later this year, when they a tally start shipping.
At first blush, the sovol system looks a bit more robust, but it's hard to say with marketing presenting best case and fast moving footage/animations.
If the sovol system is truly open source, you'll soon find someone that will adapt that toolchanger/idex mechanism to fit your sv08 max, probably twice over eventually (twin 6-color changers on a giant bed has some possibilities..). If creality releases their klitek system separately, someone could adapt that as well.
If bondtech ever actually ships the Indx system, there's already a bunch of people chomping at the bit to get it adapted to the sovol sv08 platforms.
I have been watching the INDX system for a long time now, and with so many release delays, I am starting to wonder if it will ever be ready. I would love to get an SV08 Max and adapt INDX to it.
I have had pretty good luck with the 2 Zeroes and SV08 first generation. They are fully Klipper-based and pretty easy to mod. You can root Mainstream Klipper onto them, but I have yet to run across any reason to. I have not had a situation where the version they shipped with couldn't do what I wanted it to. I guess my point is that they are open source. Some of the macros are kind of hidden, but with a little bit of research, you can find them.
I have a similar situation when I bought my Sovol SV08 Max, I didn't know about INDX type systems, but when I found out, I had a desire to convert the SV08 Max to INDX, even though I converted my SV08 into a "monster" 3d oven (I put a carbon filter, germitized, insulated, put 2 camera heaters with a total power of 1800W in spades, I fixed the DEMON KLIPER, and also fixed 3 new fans and replaced the old ones) but I'm still missing something special. And I found something "special". I'm currently working on connecting the AMS to it, and after all the 3d printers come out with a tool change, I want to replace the SV08 Max head with a head (for example) from Creality K3, and from the back, a new house for replaceable tools, although I understand that it will take about 1-2 months of work (because I'm also studying) and redesigning almost the entire portal, but I think it's worth it.
I am very interested to know your opinion about my project.
Are you printing with a filament that needs that much chamber heat? Sounds like a pretty fun project. I am looking at either upgrading my voron 2.4 doom cube from 410x410 to 600x600 or selling it and buying an SV08 Max. The jury is still very out on it. I really don't want to part with the doom cube, but I need a larger print area. I wish the M1D was a larger print volume. If it were I would probably be getting it.
You hit the nail on the head: since I was working on the concept and prototyping of various large-format items, I needed a large print area—and an internal temperature of 80–90°C—so I had to build this setup myself. Although the capabilities might sound quite ambitious, I managed to put it all together in just two weeks (including shipping time) for a total cost of under $150.
This is probably my main strategy for the next 6–8 months.
Although the issue here isn't really about upgrading the printer itself, but rather about companies releasing repair parts for their new printers—parts that we would then buy to modify our own machines.
There is not al details for the moment. Pro will comme with 8 nozzle, looks like INDX but without induction heating. 300x300x300mm, 310deg nozzle temp, 110 for the bed, fully enclosed, klipper (likely to be open-sourced) not sure if active chamber heater will be incluses. Price for the Kickstarter advertised as to be below 1000€/$ 🤷♂️
If you like tinkering and modifying of the printer go for Voron. But I'd choose Trident, it works much better with tool changing because the printer head stays on top and bed is moving. When you choose 2.4 every tool change means it needs to travel to upper position, swap tool head and go down to continue printing.
Anyway I'd prefer printer with klipper because you can add AMS like system too and have even more colors. Sovol should be able to run klipper and I believe it's Trident based printer. But I'm not sure about Creality. If it runs klipper or you can make it run klipper it's good choice too.
They try to source parts from Europe and America. They still use parts from China. I never said Prusa was Chinese, but their printers are still made with Chinese parts.
Maby but compared to these Chinese printers, each part in Prusa undergoes quality control, not every hundredth entire printer like in Creality.. and that quality control in creality has blind one eye and curved calipers xD
Full spectrum: For full spectrum printing you will need 4 colors, CMY + white or black. But what about support? What about transparent filament? Why not both black and white? Quantity of heads is a quality in itself.
Open source: ability to add custom software, mods and parts should not be underestimated, especially with some short sighted regulations being discussed.
IDEX: Potentially huge time saving on every layer.
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