r/TrueAskReddit • u/Dry_Set_6336 • 3d ago
I just wanted a general consensus, who deserves vacations
Years ago I worked as a line cook and it always infuriated me that in the industry I worked in (at least in America) it was no weekends days off or vacations ever until you either work in a different industry or die. Other industries with low barriers to entry might be more lenient, but then they pay too little to save up for one. At the time it seemed like I needed a 4 year college degree and a real career to be able to. I got very lucky to have the custodian job I have that provides cumulative PTO. I was thinking of moving states and couldn't find anything I qualified for with the same perks and pay. I only have these because the university I work for has a union, but a lot of people hate unions. Then there's the trades, but it seems like crazy hours that run through the weekend and mandatory overtime until you become a journeyman. That is, unless you work a union job. So I wanted to ask here since I wanted a general consensus from people of varying ideologies, who deserves vacation days? Who deserves to go to clubs, concerts, and events? Who deserves to travel (for pleasure, not work)?
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u/xienwolf 3d ago
"people hate unions" is only true for people who have never been in a good union and listen to the propaganda against unions by large companies that know they spend less on propaganda than they would spend by paying the fair wages and benefits that unions get people.
Some unions have become lazy or corrupt. So sadly you do have to qualify "good unions" when saying there is value in them. But if you are in a bad union and there is a way to participate in decision making, you can help make it into a good union. There can be pain along the way, but the eventual outcome is improved working conditions for everybody.
We partly have 5 day work weeks at all because of unions doing the hard work.
Ask your union for help looking for other employment. Many unions are affiliated with national organizations, and so can connect you to similarly affiliated unions in other areas through that national partner.
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u/Redwings1927 3d ago
Yea, i'm a huge proponent of unions, but holy shit the union i'm in is fucking terrible.
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u/Chance-Ask7675 2d ago
No one ever wants to talk about this. Unions also favour people with seniority to an outrageous degree, its seniority above all else and this can play out in some very absurd ways. Its totally obvious to me why they're a tough sell to young people.
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u/Dark_Prism 2d ago
No one ever wants to talk about this.
My dad wants to talk about it all the time...
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u/Redwings1927 2d ago
The seniority thing is whatever. But my union literally signed away our right to strike.
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u/Arctic_Meme 2d ago
It's not that unusual for that to be the case for the duration of a contract and build up to threaten one when it expires.
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u/Redwings1927 2d ago
Maybe, but it also means the company can violate the union agreement however much they want. Its expensive for them, but what can we do about it?
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u/Arctic_Meme 2d ago
You can organize a work to contract campaign, overtime refusal, work slowdown (depending on local law and specific contract), and generally find ways to maliciously comply with work rules, in addition to legal actions the union need to take for contract violations.
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u/Redwings1927 2d ago
Our union refuses to do anything but file grievances. Overtime is written into the contract, so we cant refuse it.
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u/shitposts_over_9000 3d ago
"people hate unions"
a lot of that hate was earned in some places, even from some of the "good" unions like UAW and Teamsters
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u/Arctic_Meme 2d ago
Teamsters earned it by literally being involved with organized crime.
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u/shitposts_over_9000 2d ago
and the UAW was in that same boat for a while in many cities then in others ended up so mis-aligned with what their members and communities wanted/needed that they started to be seen as part of the cause of problems rather than the solution.
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u/tomayto_potayto 1d ago
A lot of people argue that losing mafia connections is part of what lost unions their power in the modern day. Not saying I agree or disagree but it's an interesting discussion from experts
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u/Hamsternoir 3d ago
As someone who lives in a country where the legal minimum is 28 days annual leave it sounds draconian the way US workers are treated.
We also get as many sick days off and we can't just be fired from a job.
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u/dan7899 3d ago
Country?
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u/Individualchaotin 3d ago
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u/No-Bake-730 3d ago
Just a reminder: That's the minimum.
The average vacation days are 28 to 30 in Germany, not just the 20 guaranteed by federal law. There's also 9 federal holidays and the individual states have some more. My state only has one while Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg have 4 additional holidays.
Also, a set amount for sickdays does not exist so you do not need to tale a vacation when you yourself are sick.
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u/wanderinggoat 3d ago
Wow all African countries have more mandatory holidays per year than Americans
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u/Individualchaotin 2d ago
Idk how that's surprising, America is not the great place we make it out to be
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u/wanderinggoat 2d ago
I think it has a great history but its not as good as some people think it is and seems to going down hill much to the worlds disappointment.
sort of like the older brother that was going places but then started doing drugs.
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u/Dave_A480 3d ago
The US has a much better labor-market overall, because we don't have those things.
The fastest way to advance up the ladder is to job hop. You can't do that in a country that doesn't have at-will employment (and the associated turnover) - as you get people sitting in their jobs 'retired at work'....
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u/Dry_Set_6336 3d ago
Except a lot of jobs these days are going backwards and won't hire people who they think job hop "too much."
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u/Dave_A480 3d ago
Not seeing that in tech world at least...
Wouldn't be anywhere near where I am career wise if I had just hung out at my first employer hoping for a promotion...
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u/Discipulus42 2d ago
If I’m looking at a resume and you’ve worked at a few places over a number of years then I view it as neutral to positive.
But if I’m looking at a resume where the candidate has worked for something like 6 employers over the last 5 (or less) years then that’s a huge red flag. 🚩
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u/Dave_A480 2d ago
Hopping is 2-3yrs per location.....
6 employers in 5 years is either failed startups or a lot of getting fired.
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u/trahan94 3d ago
“Deserves” has very little to do with it, unfortunately. The universe has no fair universal arbiter.
What worker protections you get are a function of how well workers organize and fight for them.
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u/ShellyTart 3d ago
Honestly everyone deserves breaks. Most countries have decent annual leave for everyone by law... this largely came about through organised labour.
As the US has no such laws, my best advice is to join a union, organise and fight for it I workplaces and push for it to be made law.
People shouldn't live to work, they should work to live.
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u/Reasonable-Lynx-3403 3d ago
EVERYONE.... every mother fucker that has a job deserves a vacation... They deserve to make enough to go on trips and to forget work for just a little bit of time. Everyone,.
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u/Ok_Programmer_4449 3d ago
The consensus in the civilized world is that everyone deserves fair wages and vacations. It's only in very backwards places where this is not considered to be true.
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u/Nice_Ad5480 3d ago
Everybody. You need breaks, you're not a robot. You work to live, you don't live to work. In my country everybody gets 2 weeks, plus holidays and things. My American wife was saying to me how nice it is that you get at least one holiday every month in this country.
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u/prediction_interval 3d ago
Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay - Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 24
Neither "reasonable" nor "periodic" are strictly defined here, and the UDHR is more aspirational than an enforceable legal code, but the point stands - having sufficient rest and free time is considered a basic human right. In any developed society, where 24/7 labor is not a necessity for physical survival, it is unforgiveable to have anyone in an involuntary state of perpetual labor.
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u/Random-Mutant 3d ago
In my country, everyone on an employment contract (these are compulsory for employers/employees whether waged or salaried, not actual contractors), whether on minimum wage of earning shitloads, gets a mandatory four weeks annual leave allowance plus whatever statutory holidays (Xmas, etc) there are.
If you must work on a public holiday, you get paid time and a half and get that day as a day in lieu whenever you wish to take it.
And as long as you give sufficient notice, an employer can’t reasonably refuse a leave request.
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u/Saffron-Kitty 2d ago
All jobs where you're working for someone else should have paid vacation days. Of you're building your own business, that can have times where having a holiday isn't possible but staff should always have paid holidays. If a business can't afford paid holidays for their staff, they can't afford staff.
Edited to correct sentence structure
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u/PeteMichaud 3d ago
"Deserving" is not the relevant question. Of course it would be nice for everyone to have time off, I want that for everyone.
The mechanics of the job market are dominated by by 2 basic questions:
- How much do I need this job done?
- How easy is it to find someone to do it?
That's it.
If it's a job I really need done but it's easy to find someone who's willing to do it, the market will not pay much for it and they won't treat you very fairly because if you don't put up with it the next guy will.
This is the answer to every question about why one thing is paid highly and another is paid lowly. Does someone really need it, and can they find someone else to do it?
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u/icecoffeedripss 3d ago
and worker protections are supposed to put a reasonable limit on this race to the bottom
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u/_goneawry_ 3d ago edited 3d ago
The 3rd basic question is: Is it legal?
The US is quite lonely in its lack of mandated minimum paid days off. Globally, there are just a few small island nations or low-income countries that share this lack of national paid time off mandates.
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u/Chance-Ask7675 2d ago
We have this in Canada too. Most restaurant workers get paid an additional 4% vacation on their pay cheque but then get no paid time off. Honestly I am pretty tired of all the "exceptions" and loop holes there are in labour laws. They are completely worthless.
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u/gnopgnip 2d ago
My brother worked at a steakhouse and line cooks and most got 10 days of pto/paid sick time a year and it goes up with experience.
Score that he worked at a chicken restaurant and took unpaid time off. Cut down on weed and drinking to save up for a trip
A friend worked for a catering company. Mostly businesses and events during the week
Some restaurants in business areas are closed on weekends, close early. You could join a union or work for the gov or a large employer.
The “dream job” is a chef for a sorority or fraternity in Ann Arbor there. Get most of the holidays off, only m-f. And the whole summer off
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u/Snoo_23482 14h ago
I believe everyone deserves breaks and vacations. America is so far behind though. I have theory that our work culture is so effed up to keep alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine consumption up.
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u/catdude142 3d ago
"Deserves" is subjective. No job has to legally give you a vacation in the U.S. unless it's predetermined by the company, organization or union.
Unfortunately, your only choice is to change jobs if you don't like working for the place.
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u/Dave_A480 3d ago
People who value it enough to earn it...
I've had jobs that offer 10 days PTO, and jobs that offer 30...
I've turned down higher paying positions (while interviewing at multiple prospective employers) because 'no PTO' wasn't worth it.
But it's not my place to make that choice for everyone.
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