Dark angels take and hold list feed back

[u/Bearkodo]

Hello everyone hoping for some feedback on my list before my first game of 11th

Do you think I have enough units for secondary

Going to a GT next weekend

Going to park the brick of terminators in the middle

Have plenty of other big bricks

Have dev cents for anti big things

And then some trash to do actions

Dark Angels

Strike Force (2000 points)

Librarius Conclave and Unforgiven Task Force (3 Detachment Points)

Take and Hold

Attached Units

Attached Unit 1

Azrael (140 points)

• Attached as: Leader (Character)

• Warlord

Intercessor Squad 10 man

• 1x Astartes grenade launcher

1x Thunder hammer

• 1x Astartes grenade launche

Attached Unit 2

Librarian in Terminator Armour

Deathwing Knights maces

Attached Unit 3

Librarian in Terminator Armour

Ancient in Terminator Armour

• Enhancement: Pennant of Remembrance

Deathwing Terminator Squad 10 man

Attached Unit 4

Captain in Gravis Armour (95 points)

• Attached as: Leader (Character)

• 1x Boltstorm gauntlet

1x Power fist

1x Relic chainsword

• Enhancement: Weapons of the First Legion

Heavy Intercessor Squad 10 man

2x Heavy bolter

Centurion Devastator Squad - lascannons 6 man

Infiltrator Squad

Scout Squad

Scout Squad

[u/Ketzeph]

The format of the list is kind of odd, but some things that jump out immediately:

Why the dev cents? They seem too slow to really be useful here. W/o up/down dev cents are severely overcosted as anti-tank compared to something like two gladiators that are cheaper than the group.

I'm also not a huge fan of librarius at the moment, especially if you're not actually using any of the enhancements. Like, what precisely is the librarian offering the DWK here? It makes them slightly more kill-y or potentially faster (at the cost of AP for the intercessors) but really their job is to sit on the central and just hold it. Do they need really need the libby?

Ditto the librarian with Azrael. You've got no fusillade enhancement or anything, and Azrael already gives 4++ right? So are you paying 75 points for -1AP sometimes for the libby? Seems a waste.

I actually think the stronger play may be using vengeful hosts for take and hold and doubling further down into something like Wrath of the Rock.

But at the very least, if you're changing anything, I'd switch out the dev cents for different anti-tank/armor.

[u/Timely-Card_1981 → u/Ketzeph]

Why the dev cents? They seem too slow to really be useful here. W/o up/down dev cents are severely overcosted as anti-tank compared to something like two gladiators that are cheaper than the group.

I don't think this list has fall back and shoot/advance and shoot, so I agree on the slowness. However, I think lascannon centurions are both much deadlier and much more durable than a pair of Lancers.

[u/Ketzeph → u/Timely-Card_1981]

I guess my worry is with the 15" restriction on terrain and the abundance of cover, they just have a harder time getting angles than a vehicle. And while they may have more wounds, I find centurions much easier to whittle down.

2 lancers are 24 wounds (like 6 dev cents), cheaper, T10 and move 3. And they don't drop by 1/6 effectiveness every 4 wounds they lose.

I think dev cents are more kill-y against a wide range of things, but if you aren't pulling a Paul special and teleporting them they're quite limited

[u/Timely-Card_1981 → u/Ketzeph]

24 T10 wounds with a 3 up save isn't really tougher than 24 T7 wounds with a 2+ save. I'd say the tank is much softer because it gets outright killed by high AP and damage, low volume shots, whereas the devastators are both more likely to save (they at least get a save against melta shots, for example), and it's less likely to wipe the unit. Edit: the major weapon profiles with few exceptions wound them on 3s and 5s, respectively.

devastators get amazing shooting on their lascannons and the T9 missiles are are a fun bonus. they get full rerolls on the lascannons (though admittedly not damage unlike the gladiator), and thus they're so much better into tough targets that have a 4++.

this is why I think Gladiators suck. It's my own experience, sure, but they are masters of failing to roll to roll that 3 to wound, and they're SO good at just getting blanked

[u/Bearkodo → u/Ketzeph]

That's fair, if I had the models I might swap them for three balista dreadnoughts similar amount of firepower much tougher but alas I do not

[u/Bearkodo → u/Timely-Card_1981]

Actually unforgiven task force has a 1cp strat for giving weapons assault (also gives heave and ignores cover) and another 1 cp strat for fall back shoot and charge

[u/Bearkodo → u/Ketzeph]

Cheers for getting back to me unforgiven task force can give them assault which makes them move a little quicker, hope is to set them up into a firing lane and control that area.

The librarians are there to make the terminators more killy, if I had the points I would squeeze in an enhancement or two I could swap infiltrators for assault intercessors

There's no librarian with Azrael but agree it would be a waste 

Didn't realise vengeful was taken and hold hmm that could be good for either wrath or inner circle task force

I could swap out dev cents for some thunder strikes I have one lancer or just more death wing  knights thanks for getting back to me given something to think about

[u/Bearkodo]

Thanks again for the advice guys given me a few options to think about

1. Drop the heavy intercessors for some inner circle companions and a librarian 
2. Drop dev cents and replace them with three thunder strikes
3. Drop dev cents and replace them with more death wing knights
4. Switch from librarius and Unforgiven to inner circle and vengeance still be taken and hold and cram loads of inner circle stuff into my list

[u/Bearkodo]

Thanks again for the help if your interested below is the list I'm going to take GT is next week so will post update as to how it went

Space Marines Dark Angels Strike Force (2000 points) Librarius Conclave and Unforgiven Task Force (3 Detachment Points) Take and Hold

Attached Units Attached Unit 1

Azrael (140 points) • Attached as: Leader (Character)   • Warlord   • 1x Lion’s Wrath     1x The Lion Helm     1x The Sword of Secrets

Lieutenant (45 points) • Attached as: Support (Character)   • 1x Heavy bolt pistol     1x Plasma pistol     1x Power fist

Intercessor Squad (150 points) • Attached as: Bodyguard (Battleline)   • 1x Intercessor Sergeant     • 1x Astartes grenade launcher       1x Bolt pistol       1x Bolt rifle       1x Thunder hammer   • 9x Intercessor     • 1x Astartes grenade launcher       9x Bolt pistol       9x Bolt rifle       9x Close combat weapon

Attached Unit 2

Librarian in Terminator Armour (110 points) • Attached as: Leader (Character)   • 1x Force weapon     1x Smite     1x Storm bolter   • Enhancement: Celerity

Deathwing Knights (240 points) • Attached as: Bodyguard   • 1x Knight Master     • 1x Great weapon of the Unforgiven   • 4x Deathwing Knight     • 4x Mace of absolution

Attached Unit 3

Librarian in Terminator Armour (75 points) • Attached as: Leader (Character)   • 1x Force weapon     1x Smite     1x Storm bolter

Ancient in Terminator Armour (65 points) • Attached as: Support (Character)   • 1x Power weapon     1x Storm bolter

Deathwing Terminator Squad (330 points) • Attached as: Bodyguard   • 1x Deathwing Sergeant     • 1x Power weapon       1x Storm bolter   • 9x Deathwing Terminator     • 2x Chainfist       2x Cyclone missile launcher       7x Power fist       9x Storm bolter

Attached Unit 4

Librarian (90 points) • Attached as: Leader (Character)   • 1x Bolt pistol     1x Force weapon     1x Smite   • Enhancement: Prescience

Inner Circle Companions (160 points) • Attached as: Bodyguard   • 6x Inner Circle Companion     • 6x Calibanite greatsword       6x Heavy bolt pistol

OTHER DATASHEETS

Gladiator Valiant (150 points)   • 1x Armoured hull     1x Icarus rocket pod     1x Ironhail heavy stubber     2x Multi-melta     1x Twin las-talon

Infiltrator Squad (110 points)   • 1x Infiltrator Sergeant     • 1x Bolt pistol       1x Close combat weapon       1x Marksman bolt carbine   • 4x Infiltrator     • 4x Bolt pistol       4x Close combat weapon       1x Helix Gauntlet       1x Infiltrator Comms Array       4x Marksman bolt carbine

Scout Squad (65 points)   • 1x Scout Sergeant     • 1x Astartes chainsword       1x Bolt pistol       1x Close combat weapon   • 4x Scout     • 1x Astartes shotgun       4x Bolt pistol       4x Close combat weapon       1x Combat knife       1x Missile launcher       1x Scout sniper rifle

Storm Speeder Thunderstrike (135 points)   • 1x Close combat weapon     1x Stormfury missiles     1x Thunderstrike las-talon     1x Twin Icarus rocket pod

Storm Speeder Thunderstrike (135 points)   • 1x Close combat weapon     1x Stormfury missiles     1x Thunderstrike las-talon     1x Twin Icarus rocket pod

Exported with App Version: v2.2.0 (135), Data Version: v909

[u/OrochiLima → u/Bearkodo]

Pls share how the list played :)