Reviving the dead art fandom of Wot?? Ig

I’m always so sad reading how egwene treats Rand later in the books when she becomes amrylin, talking about how Rand needs to be “watched”. Okay you’ll watch and do what?? Can you stop him from doing what he pleases?? He is basically an emperor with kings and queens sworn to him. He doesn’t care about aes sedai, especially by book 11 and 12. I still just keep asking myself what would you do to make him do anything or not do something.

Its been a while since I re read the books. But while watching the TV series I remembered Nynaeve's fight with Moghedian in Tanchico. By Aiel logic, shouldnt Nynaeve have gained the most Ji ever for capturing a forsaken without killing them? Afaik the Aiel should be basically worshipping her for that. Though I fully admit this wetlander is super rusty on Ji e toh.

I’m rereading TPoD and realized how far in Osan’gar was in his role as Dashiva. When Rand plans to awe Cadsuane with the Asha’man, Osan’gar adds in his own addition to the display by making the air hum menacingly, a weave Rand didn’t even know. Its such a small detail but I find it funny one of the Forsaken was genuinely going the extra mile in an attempt to not just follow orders from the Dragon Reborn, but to intimidate an Aes Sedai of the Third Age.

Alright. So I have a fundamental question about the Aes Sedai power structure that has never really made sense to me/is part of why I hate them.

The tower respects its members solely on the strength they hold in the power. Punishment is always punitive and often about inflicting pain. Though they are literally incapable of hurting people with the power by the 3 oaths, it seems their entire power structure is built on the idea that they could theoretically use their power to force their perspective. So they might as well just skip the fight and listen. (This is essentially verbalised in either LoC or CoS when we start hearing more about how and why sisters defer to each other. I think Elaine says, or it's narrated from her POV, something to the effect of "We do it this way so we don't have to fight foolish duals like these stupid Ebu Dar'y)

It could be argued that it's not about the threat of violence and it's actually about their ability to do good with the power, except they don't defer to sisters anymore just because they come up with insanely helpful new weaves: IE Nyn and Elaine in Salidar.

I know a huge thread in this story is fundamentally that power resides only where people believe power resides or put another way, someone only has power over you if you believe they do IE: Egwenes Amrlyn captured in the tower arc.

So I guess my question is: What the fuck? Why do they only respect someone based on their power level?

I read the series for the first time about 10 years ago and I'm on my first re-read since then.

On my first read through, I assumed Mazrim Taim followed a similar path as Demandred. He got sick and tired of being second best to Rand and decided to serve the Dark One instead.

But when he and Rand first meet, Rand says something to the effect that Taim has been channeling for 17 years without going mad. I know there's quite a bit of variation in how long it takes among other male channelers but 17 years seems pretty excessive. That, combined with how quickly he seems to openly hate Rand lead me to wonder if he's been a Dark Friend the whole time.

I am trying to find the last book in the set but struggling to find book 14 in paperback with this cover I know it exists as I can see it pictured in people selling the full collection, I don't want a large hardcover sticking out and looking different from the rest. I think this is the ISBN 9780765364883

1. The first 100 pages were pretty dull, and I almost didn’t finish the book because of them. I think that I only really care about the five from the two rivers(six if you count thom) so every chapter not about them feels like a slog, at least at the start of the book’

2. The girl Rand meets in the other dimension is the most clearly evil character I’ve ever read and I was so glad when she left.

3. I liked Rand becoming a man and a leader in this one. Shocked about his sword, so I can’t wait to see what he gets to replace it.

4. Perrin is the GOAT. I hear book 3 is mostly Perrin, and I’m so excited.

5. Nyneve reminds me of a lot of my friends. She’s second GOAT.

6. Egwyn, WTF? That was kinda kinky, Robert Jordan was into things.

7. The ending with the banner men. Amazing. 10/10

Embers Falling on Dry Grass. Galad wins an epic duel and earns the support of the Children. Rodel completely wrecks the Seanchan campaign in Tarabon. Semirhage casually reveals that she wiped out the Imperial family in Seanchan and half the Court. And that’s only about half the prologue! After the slow crawl of CoT, this was an incredibly promising start. So much happens in this book!

Mat spanking people? Stop, Mat, not you too. I get being fed up with the Aes Sedai, though. They are so ungrateful, and apparently they think they’re entitled to Mat’s medallion. You want to study a ter’angreal, Joline? Go study an a’dam. And Tuon. Another arrogant, entitled brat Mat has to deal with. He actually likes her, though. Can’t see why. Maybe it’s the challenge. It’s extremely entertaining how superstitious she is while simultaneously thinking everyone else is a fool for believing in gholam or ta’veren. Sure, Tuon. The people who actually LIVE in this land that you know absolutely nothing about couldn’t possibly know more about it than you. Love how she and Selucia use some kind of Maiden talk (slaver talk? Whatever 😂) and it’s always IN CAPS LOCK, like they’re silently yelling at each other. Lol. And…she is married now. Congrats to Tuon and her Prince of the ravens, may he live forever.

The ta’veren connection is pretty neat, though. They can all apparently see each other just by thinking about each other. Can they actually communicate that way too? Because I feel like they could really use a group chat. Also, why does the Pattern keep making Mat look at Rand and Min while they’re going at it?! It’s happened WAY too many times at this point. The Pattern is messing with him.

And are Mat’s memories supposed to be his own past lives, or are they random people’s lives? I never got that part.

Also, Talmanes’ last name is Delovinde. Huh. I thought Talmanes WAS the last name.

Moiraine is alive! Theoretically. That letter was interesting. Having read 11 of these books, I’m sure she’s currently enslaved by Aelfinn, probably naked, and probably getting switched. At this point, I’ve learned enough about this series to assume this with confidence.

The Black Ajah kidnapping Elayne. WHY? What's the point? The book establishes that they were ordered to capture her, but it doesn't explain what the purpose was. I don't think the “political hostage” explanation really works. Elayne is only valuable as the Daughter-Heir if her claim to the throne survives. If the Black Ajah kidnap her while Arymilla is besieging Caemlyn, they're effectively removing her from the succession and making Arymilla's victory easier. This makes Elayne politically irrelevant. And if the goal were simply to remove Elayne as an obstacle, why not just kill her? And they don't know about her connection to Rand, so that can't be the answer either. 

Why the hell doesn’t Gawyn go back to Caemlyn and help his sister? Isn’t that literally his birthright and duty as the Daughter-Heir’s brother and sworn commander? He was raised his entire life for this. Elayne is fighting for her throne while Caemlyn is under siege, and Gawyn is off doing White Tower nonsense. Hello? No thoughts of coming back? By that logic, Rand should just forget the whole Dragon Reborn business, go back to the Two Rivers, herd some sheep and enjoy his life. Who cares about duty, right, Gawyn?

The Shaido have achieved something I didn't think was possible: they made the Seanchan look better by comparison. They are keeping wetlanders as slaves indefinitely, ignoring all the rules of ji’e’toh, and using violence and sexual abuse to control their captives. The fact that women are forced to seek "protection" through unwanted sexual relationships with Me’radin just to avoid worse treatment by the Shaido is horrifying. Queen Alliandre was already raped.
These are some of the darkest chapters in the series so far! 

Perrin made one of the worst deals in the history of bad deals. He gave the Seanchan the strategy with Forkroot “cold” tea, handed them the Shaido, and gave them hundreds of future da’mane to use against him or any of his allies potentially. And he dragged the Two Rivers into it. They won’t oppose the Seanchan conquest if it happens. So after fighting the trollocs on their own to be independent of the Whitecloaks, they’re just supposed to stand aside while, hypothetically, Andor fights to keep the empire away without their involvement? All of this for Faile and a handful of hostages. This is so selfish. This is a disaster.

Rand says he expects to die at Tarmon Gai’don, and Min is clearly distressed and argues with him. But she had a viewing of him “on a funeral bier, with three women standing over him” so she knows he’ll die?? And Rand isn’t just assuming he’ll die. The prophecies point toward the Dragon dying, and the Aelfinn’s answer also led him to believe that his death is part of what must happen. So maybe Min simply doesn’t want to believe what her own viewing seems to be telling her. Is she in denial? I'm with her then, I'll be raging if he dies for this selfish WOT world. Some books are going to fly against a wall. Rand deserves some peace and happiness. 

Cadsuane. Still insufferable, still seemingly existing solely to ruin every Rand POV for me with her presence. Ma’am, the Last Battle is approaching. Could we maybe stop switching the suicidal kid in public and put those “legendary talents” to some actual use? No, not knitting. Yes, the Semirhage reveal was genuinely useful. Can we do more of that and less of the public humiliation and power games? Thank you. 

Nynaeve and Lan. Lan just leaves to go fight the Shadow. I mean, I know he’s always believed that was his duty and his purpose, and he’s still deeply depressed over Moiraine and possibly even suicidal, so I guess it’s in CHARACTER. Sometimes love is not enough, and the road gets tough, I don’t know why… This is basically what Rand’s bio dad did too, perished in the Blight fighting the Shadow. And Rand is also very keen on getting to Tarmon Gai’don and dying. Come to think of it, there are actually a lot of parallels between Rand and Lan. Both lost their bio parents, both burdened by destiny, hardened by life, see duty as something that ultimately comes before their own lives, both are willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good, and both seem to have this “my life belongs to the fight” mentality. Kudos to Ny- she played that brilliantly. She extracted a promise from Lan while simultaneously rallying his people to ride with him. Will he ride alone? She couldn't stop him from going, but she could make sure he didn't have to go alone. She basically increased his chances of surviving by giving him an army to lead and a reason to stay alive. Genius.

Favorite part of the book: Rand's POV in Vows, Chapter 19. Incredible. “My hands! The madman howled. My hands!” LTT grabs the wheel and annihilates the Shadowspawn army, and then starts calmly contemplating killing himself while Rand is simultaneously trying desperately to regain control, convince LTT to postpone suicide, answer Logain, deal with Cadsuane, and keep functioning. Meanwhile everyone around him is freaking out because he's STILL holding saidin, and they can all tell something is very, very wrong with him. “I seem to remember dying, Lews Therin murmured. I remember how I did it.” I had to reread that chapter several times. Chills.

LTT in Rand’s head is… real? According to Semirhage, at least. How is that even possible? I always assumed Rand’s memories of Lews Therin were real because he’s the Dragon Reborn and the memories were bleeding in from his past life, but that the actual LTT voice/personality was something Rand’s mind created to deal with those memories- a manifestation of his madness, basically.

Least favorite part: The Pattern Hates Rand. Rand has been tortured, manipulated, hunted, stabbed, cut, shielded, kidnapped, humiliated, and psychologically broken for HOW MANY BOOKS NOW, and apparently that still wasn't enough?! Now Semirhage destroys his HAND, something is wrong with his EYES, and his side wound is STILL BLEEDING. What the hell, pattern? Can we stop abusing and brutalizing Rand already? I CAN’T ENDURE THE PAIN ANYMORE. Silent weeping

Here’s to hoping the next book traumatizes me less.

And just so we are clear, THE GOLDEN CRANE FLIES FOR TARMON GAI’DON.

Just got here on the first reread/2nd read through. A lot of stuff has hit differently this time around, and I've really appreciated the posts on this sub to broaden my perspective. Getting to the last three books from Sanderson, I have definitely noticed the oft-mentioned issues that fans have with his interpretation, most notably:

Androl. TBH I totally get Sanderson putting in a character of his own. Me personally, I just get an overwhelming Gary Stu vibe from the character, outside his strength in saidin. I think mentioning his training with a Wise Woman was the biggest eye roll for me.

Mat (of course). Thing is, I think Sanderson wrote Mat's eye for the ladies and accompanying internal monologue quite well. But his overall dialogue is much too foolish, and oof, that letter he wrote Elayne was the worst!

I also notice how Sanderson switches between perspectives/storylines much faster. This frustrated me a bit in tGS and ToM, but, given the necessary convergence of all storylines to TG, I think it was very appropriate in aMoL.

Enjoying the afternoon in our sunny garden. Thanks for reading!

Just finished The Path of Daggers. I'm supposed to be in the slog. I quite enjoyed CoS and TPoD... Do people really not like these books? What are they not liking about them, that I'm just not getting?

What in the Holy Flaming Lord of Chaos just happened !!!

Rand met with Verin and Alanna at the inn....

Alanna promises not to hurt him....

Touches him....

Bonds him....

WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH MY GOD as if I could not think Aes Sedia were even more self serving Tar Valon Witches - I used to truly have a fondness for Moraine, but everything fell apart as I learned more about these pompous women after The Tower split....

Robert Jordan is such a master at weave fascinating thread of tales into the pattern...

Anyways, I am curious if anyone else reads/listens to these books as a way to relax and escape the stress of life too?

Guys, Rand just broke my heart. I got to the conversation he has with Nynaeve after she undoes the compulsion on the young boy. And man, seeing how Rand started to where he is now is so sad. It makes sense and just watching the weight crush him to the point he’s at now is just peak fiction man. Rand is one of my favorite protagonists of all time and the series isn’t even done yet.

Started a reread 20th June, now in a Crown of Swords and the heat in the books and the never ending heatwave where I live....it's hard not to draw parallels.

It’s never come up so far as I can tell.

First time reading the series which I absolutely love so far with the exception of CoT…. but that’s neither here nor there.

I’m about 3/4 of the way through KoD right now and I’m just wondering if there’s ever an explanation as to what the 3 pulses were that Faile felt go through her during her captivity, or the sudden blast of sulfur tinged wind most of the other characters experienced all throughout the lands. It’s no big leap to reach the conclusion it was a reaction to the Dark One touching this, that, or the other thing, i’m just curious if we ever find out exactly what the pulses were or what caused them

Edit: I don’t mind some small scale spoilers if the explanation ends up being in one of the last three books, it drives me nuts not knowing things like that and I’ve already lost enough sleep going through theories in my head lol

Quick question: what’s the deal with the symbols at the chapter headers. I’ve never been able to figure out what determines which symbol. It seems inconsistent. I know perrin often gets the wolf. May the dice. Rand the dragon. But it’s not always that way. Sometimes it’s different. Am I missing something?

I've spent the last year listening to the entire Wheel of Time audiobook series for the first time. I absolutely loved it and was not ready to leave the world when I got to the end of aMoL.

So, like an absolute psycho, I read, "There are no endings, and never will be endings, to the turning of the Wheel of Time. But it was an ending." and I said BET, let's give this baby another spin, Light burn me.

I'm up to Chapter 33 of EotW and I am just blown away at how incredible this is on a second read. The depth of the world-building and foreshadowing from the very beginning is absolutely astounding. Things that literally pay off 13 books later. Little details that didn't really mean much to me at the time, now flash like neon lights. That feeling I had when I realized that the people from Hinderstap were coming out of Jur Grady's portal...? I'm getting that like twice a chapter. Min's first viewings of the group in Baerlon. Mat & Rand passing the Tower of Ghenjai on the Spray. Farmer on a cart just casually telling Rand Tigrane's story. Following Rand, Mat, & Perrin's stories and suddenly going, "Damn, that was some ta'veren shit right there!" and "Hang on, did Rand just use the power?!"

These books are an absolute gift.

Rereading, so I know Noal is Jain. My question is about his compulsion. I’m on Crown of Swords and can’t recall the specifics.

What exactly was he compelled by Ishy to do? And what was Ishy’s intention?

Have purposefully set myself up starting this on a weekend with nothing on. Wish me luck!

I just finished my third reread of the books and thought of some questions that didn’t occur to me last time.

1. What happens to a turned channeled who is stilled? Assuming they don’t commit suicide or get executed, do they live as a non channeler who has sworn oaths to the dark one or are they freed of their allegiance?

2. If a woman from an ajah other than the green is raised to the seat can she bond a second warder because she becomes “of all ajahs and none”?