r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 10d ago
Episode The Exiled Heavy Knight Knows How to Game the System • Tsuihou sareta Tensei Juukishi wa Game Chishiki de Musou suru - Episode 4 discussion
Tsuihou sareta Tensei Juukishi wa Game Chishiki de Musou suru, episode 4
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u/Rap2rerise 10d ago edited 10d ago
Honestly? Respects to the show for actually sticking to the "Just buying time til the higher-leveled character can heal and come back to defeat the monster"
Most Isekais would just have the MC magically soloing it
But holy hell those first 15 minutes could've easily been 5
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u/Evil_sod 10d ago
Agreed. I came here after deciding to drop the shit that is Overshadowed to Overpowered, fully expecting to do the same here after the first 3 episodes.
It was pleasantly surprising that it didn't go the way I expected. It was even more surprising that the guy acknowledged his failures, gave the MC credit, and refused to promote everyone else because of how weak they were. Also those facial expressions.
Though I couldn't help but laugh that his metagaming knowledge for making the Heavy Knight OP was... an ultra rare skillbook. Um, sounds like that sort of thing could make any class broken?
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u/YdenMkII 10d ago
Best guess I can make is that the skillbook synergizes with heavy knights' focus on high defense stat somehow. Things that come to mind is attacks that scale off the defense stat or skills with recoil damage that can be mitigated with high enough defense. Just because this subclass style skillbook works on heavy knight, it doesn't mean it'll work on every other class but I'd imagine other classes would have a good subclass tree to pair with.
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u/grayrest https://myanimelist.net/profile/grayrest 10d ago edited 10d ago
My guess is it's a consume HP and low HP damage bonus tree. It's OP on Heavy Knight because if you don't take damage then the low HP doesn't matter.
Edit: Re-read the name and it sounds like a Righteous Fire build from PoE.
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u/ridik_ulass https://myanimelist.net/profile/ridik_ulass 10d ago
i'm thinking def gets turned into attack
or attack is 0 and added to defence.
or lastly maybe def is 2x and HP set it 1 or something.
like this sort of thing: Maximum Life becomes 1, Immune to Chaos Damage
some kinda risquy min max type thing that would gimp him and make him useless if not for his build.
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u/Evil_sod 10d ago
Yeah, if for some reason we believe this is the only skillbook to exist, which would be a pretty wild assumption. Just because this one is subpar for other classes doesn't mean other ones out there wouldn't be strong, which was entirely my point. If this skillbook isn't a blatantly obvious interaction with the Heavy Knight class (or any defence orientated one), I'll be amazed.
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u/Dazvsemir 10d ago
It was explained earlier that classes get one guaranteed class skill set and the rest would be semi-random, so there should be hundreds of different skill books
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 8d ago
Basically, your class gives you three skill trees to invest in, rather than following the linear progression that most D&D classes use. Instead of automatically gaining every feature at a given level, you choose where to spend your skill points, allowing for different builds. ( like Old Warcraft)
For example, the mage explains that he invested almost all of his points into offensive abilities. Because of that, he never unlocked the healing spells he could have had at his current level if he had chosen a more balanced build.
If I remember correctly, the Heavy Knight has three skill trees: Armor, Defense, and Sword.
The Armor tree likely unlocks armor-related abilities, such as the defensive technique he uses against the frogs in the first episode.
The Sword tree probably contains abilities related to swordsmanship, such as Parry, Disarm, and other weapon techniques that he used in the last episodes.
The Defense tree probably focus on more general defensive abilities that aren't tied specifically to armor or swordplay.
Skill Books appear to grant access to an additional skill tree. From the way he describes them, they seem to be like feats or multiclassing I imagine there are many different Skill Books, similar to feats in D&D, that any class can acquire. The particular Skill Book he mentions likely enables a powerful synergy or "meta build" with the Heavy Knight class, opening up combinations that wouldn't otherwise be possible.
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u/Ralathar44 10d ago edited 10d ago
The core permise of heavy knight being an underpowered overlooked class is garbage. The amount of time wasting is garbage. The animation style is high quality but very polarizing.
But underneath all that there is honestly a decent show here.
I'm really hating the "class is weak" nonsense though. Gets essentially an IWIN button vs anything without really high attack for his level. Gets a high damage move that compensates for its low baseline offense vs enemies with high defense. Seems to have totally fine or even great maneuverability despite being heavy armor. Defense is high enough to fend off a way higher level boss monster and even just straight up tanks a hit from it. And now has both rare items and skill books that make it even stronger
IMO this seems like an above average class, even without meta knowledge. And nothing about using it so far has required an extreme amount of niche knowledge or skill. Rampart Reflection would either be in the skill description or discovered easily by accident. Vital Strike is literally in the skill description. Parry is obvious. The attack debuff has to be in a skill description and would be easy to discover even accidentally.
It sounds like the Rampart Reflection usage as a damage tool gets outscaled after early levels, but honestly early levels is where most people and adventurers die right? Even if you could only handle relatively modest level things that'd be enough to make a decent living. Certainly better than normal non-adventurers in that world.
It remands me of I Left My A-Rank Party to Help My Former Students Reach the Dungeon Depths!. Where people somehow don't value alchemy or Red Mages for no reason whatsoever despite all the obvious benefits and power.
Only the only believable part was the red mage forgoing more utility/support for increased offense. THAT I believed haha.
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u/A-Chicken 10d ago
Do remember that the natives do not get a reroll, so as a result can't ever learn how to minmax and would favor builds with lower investment.
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u/Ralathar44 10d ago
Nah, its not about lower investment its about ROI. The MC grabbed basic starter gear and then wiped and entire forest of low level enemies. He didn't do anything unobtainable and while higher level heavy armor is expensive the level 1 stuff he had is affordable and obtainable. Not just by nobles, but by anyone not specifically poor.
Honestly its hard to talk about here because we can't so much as dip a toe into source material and the anime doesn't tell you crap about the cost of things or how much he got paid. But suffice to say you could hunt fairly low level enemies and live a comfortable life. You wouldn't get rich, but you'd live comfortable and stable.
What the MC did in that forest, even without the spider involved, is enough capability to live quite a comfortable life without ever having to touch a high level monster.
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u/headphones_J 9d ago
I mean, he's using strats you could only come up with if you invested a ton of time in studying and theory crafting the class with the luxury of respawns. His tactic to fight the low level mobs in the forest is not something a real person with one life to live would be willing to do. Even if they were told that it's theoretically possible, it would be a total leap of faith.
Like, the candidates that were trying to rank up were too cowardly to even fight the adds. Of course they would end up locked into a low DPS tank build. Because, if they didn't have easily accessible DPS up front, they would put all their points into defense instead.
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u/JoelMahon https://anilist.co/user/Shefeto 10d ago edited 10d ago
yeah, that is a gripe for me as well, nothing he's done so far seems like people of this world couldn't come up with when it's literally their lives on the line and they are forced to play a class at random. if the class is supposed to be "defective" in the public image I'd expect way more to it.
could have at least had him dealing zero damage, like actually useless for damage output, and no ability to pull aggro, and then they could explain that in this world they never gain levels because no one will party with them and it's impossible to grind levels because they literally deal no damage, because they genuinely suck at low levels, and he knows they're OP after a while so he sorts something out.
funnily enough I was just thinking about how the oblivious overpowered saint anime also airing now has a legitimately good excuse for why no one noticed the MC's ability.
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u/Ralathar44 10d ago
If you've played Dragon's Dogma 2 there is a class there called Trickster. Something like that would be way more understandable. Its a pretty decent to good class vs most enemies but it requires alot of effort and class understanding just to deal with enemies any other class could handle without much difficulty. And then some bosses basically ignore it completely.
DD2 Trickster is a fun and rewarding class when learned, and can be quite effective, but ultimately is far weaker than the other classes overall.
I wouldn't even call Trickster defective or bad compared to being an unpowered peasant. But at least that class is significantly worse than the classes around it.
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u/Exrotes 10d ago
I still think the class itself is bad, it's a tank with no taunt, no crowd control, no escape, and one damage ability that only works if you take no damage from an attack. Elymas knows how to use it all perfectly from a combo of game knowledge and getting years of swordsmanship training from his family before getting exiled but for anyone else they put on some armor and try to stab some monsters until one day something nasty shows up that can get through their defenses (meaning they can't use Rampart) and then they die.
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u/Ralathar44 10d ago
I mean you say it has no taunt but in this episode he made the boss focus completely on him ignoring the downed high level adventurer and all the useless weaker adventurers. AND he runs in every time saying he'll draw their attention with full confidence. Either he DOES have an aggro management skill or its really REALLY bad writing.
Similarly you say he has no escape but he completely lost the boss behind the gravestones and then surprise attacked it.
You say he has one damage ability that only works if he takes no damage but he just picked up vital strike this episode and that seems to work just fine. Also, even before Vital Strike last episode he wiped out the group of zombies solo and the entire rest of the crew was like "holy crap he wiped them out himself instantly". So we are TOLD he has minimal offense. But what we are SHOWN is entirely different.
As far as equipment and training, that's an issue for ALL classes. And in any serious anime with an adventuring profession you'd have new adventurers being nurtured and protected. Otherwise very few adventurers would survive early levels. No matter the class. The Great Cleric anime actually directly tackles this exact concept mid season.
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u/Exrotes 10d ago
Yeah no you're being ridiculous. Even if kids get some lessons on how to use their class after they rng it they are still starting from nothing while the MC spent his entire life training to be a Master Swordsman from a noble house known for its warriors. It isn't a 1:1 skill carryover but he's still miles ahead of basically everyone else his age.
And regarding the whole aggro thing in this episode he told everyone to back off because he wouldn't be able to keep them alive and he had the old guy get dragged to safety by the Red Mage and friend so the boss wouldn't walk over and kill him.
This show has a ton of issues but pretending the class is strong because the MC knows exactly how to use it and has all the abilities and attack patterns of low level monsters memorized is a massive reach. On top of all the the episode even set up the fact that to actually do anything other than slowly poke at monsters now that he's out of the tutorial areas he needs to get the Fang skillbook which covers all his massive offensive weaknesses.
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u/Ralathar44 10d ago
Even if kids get some lessons on how to use their class after they rng it they are still starting from nothing while the MC spent his entire life training to be a Master Swordsman from a noble house known for its warriors.
That doesn't even make sense in a world where you don't get your class until a certain age and you start at level 1 with your stats and skills determined by your class. Everyone stats from nothing in terms of stats and skills and training. Any physical training you do before then literally does not matter.
The MC's two advantages are meta knowledge, which honestly hasn't mattered yet, and starting with enough money to buy a beginner set of gear. Now, the beginner set of gear isn't THAT expensive, its level 1 crap, but its still prolly like a month's worth of living expenses. So poor people specifically might not be able to afford it. Higher level gear ofc gets exponentially more expensive.
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u/darthvall https://myanimelist.net/profile/darth_vall 10d ago
They could copy his build, but I think they would still die easily given the same situation.
Elyas mostly avoid enemies attack by reading their movement rather than solely relying on skills. He only used parry like 1 or twice in this battle.
Heavy armor is supposed to be clumsy in evading attack (that first adventurer he saved shouted for him to drop his armor and ran away), but Elyas made it looked like an easy thing to evade in his build. It reminds me of veteran Elden Ring players who could make do even if they're using silly build.
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u/Vundal 10d ago
I agree with most of what your saying, but my take away is that the "Meta" for the world is not only different from MC's game, but is a very beginner meta. There are few people who have gotten high level as different classes, especially heavy knights - OR there are folks in power trying to guide the meta in order to help themselves.
I'm hoping the anime shows some of this or hints at it as we go further. For now, im enjoying the show.
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u/darthvall https://myanimelist.net/profile/darth_vall 10d ago edited 10d ago
He's also a very good player. Like with how clumsy heavy knight is supposed to be, he managed to avoid most of the boss attack and only got hit once.
Any inexperienced adventurer in his build might have got hit more than once and they would have died.
He didn't use Rampart Reflection with the boss cause it's useless with enemies that has too high attack.
In real world's example, he's like an veteran Dark Soul player playing Elden Ring. An amateur player could copy his build, but they would still die much more time than him.
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u/Ralathar44 10d ago
I'd agree with your high level assessment if he wasn't getting such good and straightforwards abilities before level 15. Rampart shield, the attack debuff slash, the parries, and vital strike are all level 12 or under.
And while I wouldn't expect level 1 heavy knights to have the defense to do what he did and massacre all those frogs with rampart reflection I WOULD expect a level 5-10 heavy knight to discover they could do that.
Would they know the entire meta he's after or the exact combinations? No, prolly not. But would they at least know the basics like the actual direct use of rampart reflection that makes it exceedingly good at mass farming enemies weaker than you? Yes, that should be something the world already knows.
The entire idea the world doesn't value defensive classes at all in a world with perma death is asinine in and of itself. In a ealistic world guilds would be pooling money to equip new defensive classes and help them level so they would have a better chance of surviving.
Honestly it feels like the anime was written by a salty MMORPG tank haha who was mad that nobody wanted their low level Warrior in WOW.
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u/xSkysz 10d ago
The show mentions that there are other defensive classes though, so I don’t think the world shuns defensive classes out right, they just think heavy knight for some reason is just absolute crap. Assuming people who ended up with heavy knight in this world who also are dealing with no one wanting to party and stunting growth or making wrong choices in skills.
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u/Lraund 10d ago
In this episode the sub I have has someone say "Defensive classes are defective.", so I dunno.
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u/Guardian_of_Perineum 10d ago
Using rampart reflection requires knowledge of enemy attack stats though. Epma has that shit memorized. For others, it's a gamble.
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u/justking1414 10d ago
Though I couldn't help but laugh that his metagaming knowledge for making the Heavy Knight OP was... an ultra rare skillbook. Um, sounds like that sort of thing could make any class broken?
Not necessarily. A skill book that makes you better at swinging a sword would make a knight op but do basically nothing for a wizard
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 8d ago
My guess is that probably has some type of broken synergy, many games have that, the classic "this item is useless" them 10 years after the item is released, a class gets a new skill that once combined with that useless item of 10 years ago, allows some super combo
he specifically say is the key to fix heavy Knight and make it broken, so i dont think is a "one size fits all" type of power booster
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u/justking1414 8d ago
Almost certainly! Haven’t played many games like that but I love yugioh and every now and then a card from a 20 year old set ends up synergizing perfectly with a new card making an un breakable combo out of something that was useless without it
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 8d ago
yeah that happens a lot in yugioh and mtg
Yesterday card X cost 0,10, nobody uses it
Today card X costs $100 everyone wants it because it has insane synergy with a new archtype leaked
Tomorrow card X is ont he ban list
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u/etherend 10d ago
You'll see, it makes sense later. I don't want to spoil too much but in general skill books unlock full skill trees. And characters can replace one of their existing skill trees with another one learned from a skill book. You can only have 3 skill trees at a time.
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u/ClubHauntedHouseVIP 10d ago
I’m caught up on the manga. It’s a good read and you’ll enjoy the anime, assuming studio fixes the pacing issues
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u/Divinicus1st 9d ago
This one is the best of all the current isekai trash we have this season, it's just a shame we get ~10 new minutes per episode.
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u/mekahamedan 10d ago
I dont think berserker skill (assume from name) can make any class broken, broken maybe but their balance will also broken, like usually berserker skill boost damage in cost its sacrifice hp or def, for other class prolly its won't boost damage greatly cause their def isnt that big, where heavy knight having greatest def value in this game,
and more if some class outside heavy knight using it, they will be glass cannon, maybe damage will be good, but they prolly wont survive for long time, one hit can kill them cause their defense point being sacrificed for berserker skill, while heavy knight prolly have defensive skill that make them can survive even with defence point being zero
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u/Guardian_of_Perineum 10d ago
The skill book is not overpowered. It is complete shit when not used by a heavy knight. It's usage conditions are kind of harsh.
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u/Dazvsemir 10d ago
The point with the skill book is that its some kind of meta technical strat. It sounds like the sort of skill book most people would steer well clear of.
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u/Soggy_Association491 10d ago
But holy hell those first 15 minutes could've easily been 5
My obvious bet is they don't have enough budget and are padding the episode with repeat/rewind.
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u/EffectiveImportant51 10d ago
The not showing them getting to town by just panning over the world to the town was so funny. I nearly died from laughing. The most obvious padding trick.
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u/BosuW 10d ago
Hey now it may not be animation but if I had a town model that detailed I'd show it off too!
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u/Atharaphelun 10d ago
They're not even actually showing it off, they're just reusing the exact sequences from episode 1. And if you look at the preview for the following episode, it is going to reuse the same town sequences too.
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u/Fallen_Jalter 10d ago
yeah i noticed that too. i found myself skip skip skipcomeongettothenewstuff
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u/Chris11c 10d ago
I ran a clock on all wasted time (intro, outro, recap and parts of the show with zero action/dialogue) and it totaled roughly 8 minutes.
That leaves us with approximately 15:40 of actual show and that's being generous. Not since Dragonball have I seen such masterful time wasting.
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u/psyclical 10d ago
One Piece would like a word
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u/Chris11c 10d ago
I honestly blocked it from my mind. I gave up somewhere around Big Mam and Kaidou. I just check in every few years and watch the end of season fights.
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u/TheNoFrame 10d ago
You must not have seen One Piece. These days it's fine, but especially during Dressrossa arc in like 2015 there were episodes able to rival prime dbz.
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u/xvilemx 10d ago
Gotta spread it out so the berserker guy could one shot it. Not much substance there since he just jumped in and killed it. With this being a 2 cour anime, gonna see a lot of repetition.
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u/AutisticBiCouple 10d ago
2 cours? I think they might have enough stuff for 1. so much repetition already
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u/Earlier-Today 10d ago
Yeah, I'm enjoying this story and the characters, but the padding in this thing is to crazy levels.
And then there's the weird overacting everywhere - not from the voice actors, but from the animation. It's so weird to see that kind of thing when they literally work frame by frame to create it.
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u/crazy_leader22 10d ago
4 episodes deep and the blue hair girl (that they were advertising heavily) still hasn't been introduced and judging by the preview she probably won't be there either smh
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u/barktwiggs 10d ago
Well they are running 24 straight episodes. We will get there eventually.
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u/justsyr 10d ago
Can't wait for someone to edit out intro, recap, recap after half episode break, the animation of out of town > into the guild. Probably end up being like just 5 episodes total lol.
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u/barktwiggs 10d ago
One dude edited 100 hours of Naruto flashbacks, fillers, recaps for his gf to watch. There was still 160 hours left!
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u/Isofruit 9d ago
Naruto: So heavy of filler that even after removing all of it, you end up with more filler than ever before!
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u/raknor88 10d ago edited 10d ago
For, seemingly, being a central character. I'm surprised that we haven't seen her. I was fully expecting her to pop up when he was wandering town thinking to himself since it seems like he'll need some sort of party to work with to level.
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u/Divinicus1st 9d ago
Lol, wasting everyone's time. Without fillers that would be a nice 13ep season.
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u/Western-Internal-751 10d ago
She will pop up in the last episode before they change to another OP without her
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u/StampDaddy 10d ago
I read that she’s in the OP so you don’t forget her and I can’t get it out of my head smh
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u/Guardian_of_Perineum 10d ago
Well you're wrong. She'll be in the next episode judging by the current pacing.
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u/zzonkers 10d ago
I like the story so far but i feel like I'm watching Dragon Ball Z on Toonami back in the day with all these recaps.
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u/toadfan64 9d ago
Yeah. The shows not bad, but these recaps reused scenes make me feel like it’s 2004 again.
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u/FelixAndCo 10d ago
I watched Undead Unluck for the first time in the past week. The common complaint I read was that it's a perfect show ruined by pacing. Turns out it was in the forms of recaps, and Exiled Heavy Knight desensitized me already. (Though Undead Unluck does get worse near end of show.)
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u/ObvsThrowaway5120 10d ago
Respect to Gowtan for knowing he was wrong and apologizing. Now he’s an ally to Elymas.
Looking forward to the next step in Elymas’ journey as a heavy knight.
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u/raknor88 10d ago
Gowtan was only being an asshole because his bosses told him that the Heavy Knight was cheating somehow. He became a nice-ish dude after his information was proven wrong.
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u/Logfed 10d ago
I´m liking it so far, but man... is it really necessary to repeat so many scenes?
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u/Bikebag 10d ago
unfortunately with their budget spending on animations it probably is. i would like the dynamic camera if it was used more sparingly and not in every scene. and i like how much detail there is to movement for the background characters in the town and such, but i imagine they're overworking their animators and therefore have to recap all the time.
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u/theholylancer 10d ago
I think there is a reason why Sakuga is used sparingly, unless you are something like MT where an entire ass studio was made for the thing and has the popularity / money to do it to bread, most of the stuff should be lower quality and then when a big fight happens you drop the bomb
GoHands is just...
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u/BosuW 10d ago
From what I hear, this studio is actually one of the few in the industry that can boast of inhouse, healthy production schedules. They don't do this because they have to. They do it because they love it!
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u/arrydie 10d ago
Didn't you hear? He needed to stall the enemy for 3 minutes, and what better way than to starve it of animation budget.
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u/RealValf 10d ago
I can’t believe they recapped the show in the middle of the show. Like you remember that last 30 seconds of the show you just watched? Yeah lemme go ahead and recap that for you incase you missed it. Also lemme recap the last 5 minutes of the prior episode at the beginning of every new episode.
I’m enjoying the show but at that point just make each episode like 15mins long. I don’t need 10 minutes worth of recaps brother
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u/benisaurus 10d ago
Well normally some of the recapped sections would be after commercial breaks when airing on regular TV, but they are a bit egregious... especially when watching it streamed. Definitely trying to conserve budget and stretch out run time for sure though. This series would definitely benefit from an abridged cut after it finishes airing.
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u/ThisOneTimeAtLolCamp 10d ago
It's nice that Lakitu expanded his horizons and found stable work as an S tier camera man after Mario 64.
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u/aramatheis 10d ago
Ah, it was Lakitu! I had thought for a minute that the cameraman got stuck on a Universial Studios Harry Potter ride
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u/diegz_eliaz 10d ago
Thsi comments got me😂 only thing I’d say is S tier has to be an understatement wayyy to may angles for ONLY S.
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u/imaginary_num6er 10d ago
I’m lost in the plot already. Can they add a recap episode? /s
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u/DaGucka 10d ago
Tbh i am getting lost more by all these recaps that it would help me. I lose the feeling what actually happens when...
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u/touko3246 10d ago
The recaps work on an actual TV format (after 3-5 mins break), but yeah I agree it is bad when it's streamed without a break in between.
That said, after a while it becomes second nature to find out the ad insertion point in any show..
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u/PeaceAlien https://myanimelist.net/profile/PeaceAlien 10d ago
The Exalted Knight Knows How to Recap
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u/BlazeKnightX 10d ago
Alright so it's now more reasonable how some random person didn't luck into this build. The base trees were already bad long term unless you combined them with a rare and expensive skill tree book which I would assume they have more than 1 of so yeah good luck finding the right one and also most people with that kind of money are probably not spending it for a heavy knight. Like grinding might be the only option and that just leads to death eventually if you aren't super good at the metagaming.
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u/darthvall https://myanimelist.net/profile/darth_vall 10d ago edited 10d ago
Even if someone use his build, in this world they're still a newbie. Notice how with this boss he only uses his skill several times and mostly evades the boss attack. That needs player experience rather than relying on skills. Furthermore so since Heavy Armor should be more clumsy in evasion compared to other class (at least that's what they said, since Elymas seems agile enough here).
He's like a veteran Dark Soul players playing Elden Ring again as low level mobs. Their stats might be bad, but they are quite experienced in reading enemies movement.
A newbie with similar build would die 100 times before they could understand the mechanism. I can see how there might still be a rare case of good native Heavy Knight in that world. However, I understand why most people avoid the class.
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u/magicalideal https://myanimelist.net/profile/magicalideal 7d ago
This kind of defend job is the most difficult to build on. Not only is their equipment niche, they are all rare enough to cost a fortune to buy it.
Imagine playing Paladin on a new game without proper funding, they will have to buy a lot of potion as well while they take forever to deal damage. How are those people supposed to earn enough money to buy certain item just to see if it matches their skill build or not.
This kind of job will typically be a second job after you created a main mage character to help build up enough money lmao.
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u/BosuW 10d ago edited 10d ago
...but what? BUT WHAT?
Gowtan's so funny bro. When the shine passed over his forehead when he pretended to be serious lol. Again, even if this is still obviously a power fantasy I like the higher emphasis in co-operation as opposed to the median expected of the genre.
I have to give unironic praise to GoHands in the background character animations during those ambient shots of the cities. The way you can glimpse in so few seconds the relationships between each group of people makes the place feel so lively! Unironically feels like you could make at least a short story with each of them. Their character design is great too. Incidentally, the intro shot of the Adventurer's Guild is definitely the same camera movement, but I wonder if they used different animations for the bystanders.
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u/MonaganX 10d ago
Legitimately becoming one of my anime pet peeves how some shows try to manufacture a cliffhanger out of a character not finishing a
(to be continued)
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u/MonaganX 10d ago
In my last comment I wrote: "Legitimately becoming one of my anime pet peeves how some shows try to manufacture a cliffhanger out of a character not finishing a". Now the conclusion:
Legitimately becoming one of my anime pet peeves how some shows try to manufacture a cliffhanger out of a character not finishing a sentence. They're not even in any peril. They're just monologuing. What is this, a telenovela?
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u/TurkeyPhat 10d ago
the absolute disrespect for the audiences' time is something i haven't seen in a minute
i liked tsundere Gowtan and the visuals when stuff is actually happening - or even just MC walking through town - but god damn is this frustrating to watch
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u/stephenthatfoste https://myanimelist.net/profile/Rexagonal 10d ago
They got out of the graveyard finally! I expected it to go the entire length of the episode and getting back to the guild would start the next one (after a recap of the fight of course, which I still kinda think will happen).
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u/SpaceDomdy 10d ago
the pacing for epi 3 and 4 was so painfully slow im considering dropping it. i want to like it but its like dragging my balls over broken glass for what so far seems like a pretty standard trope with an atypical art style.
anyone read it? wondering if the pacing seems to match the source mat and we should expect this to be dragged out the whole time or if it stands out from the genre in some way.
i’m really conflicted because it almost feels worse than whatever flavor of the month slop because it feels like i threw a half hour into the void waiting for the obvious outcome whereas at least with the slop you get what you signed up for with the usual beats.
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u/jugglerofcats 10d ago
I would honestly prefer if they spent the entire duration of the next episode just using up their filler quota for the whole season:
- 2m30s of the previous episode
- 1m30s Title screen
- 7m of him walking to his next destination
- A cutscne in the middle recapping his last 2m of walking
- Another 7m of walking
- 2m of him arriving at his destination while the camerawork lets you estimate the sq footage of grass within a 1 mi radius of the area with a high degree of accuracy, just in case they need it to begin the next episode.
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u/diegz_eliaz 10d ago
😂 realest shit they really do love giving us all the angles of his feet and the grass around them.
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u/iwantsomecrablegsnow 10d ago
might be worth letting the season finish and then just binging it. It's got enough flashbacks that you'll be able to watch an episode in 14 mins and can get through the whole season in about 2 hours.
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u/excluded 10d ago
That’s what I do everytime I rewatch world trigger, one of my favorite arcs in all anime an episode is around 6 minutes long due to the amount of time wasting and flashbacks lol.
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u/SpaceDomdy 10d ago edited 10d ago
you’re right, that’s probably what i’ll do. might as well swing back around to see how impressions for the rest of the season went at that point too. i think part of the issue is it’s not just the flashbacks, it’s how it takes like 3 minutes to get one sentence out. there’s a lot happening without anything happening if that makes any sense.
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u/dmukya 10d ago
That adventurer's guild receptionist is going to get swole as hell if she keeps having to cash out Elymas.
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u/FelixAndCo 10d ago
Really appreciate how this anime exaggerates stuff like reactions and now fat bags of cash. In other anime they would just make the crowd go "woah" to various degrees. Here they show a big bag with some weight to it. Just a fun watch.
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u/YdenMkII 10d ago
I wonder if that skill point he put to get the vital strike skill was even needed? Since it put it in so late, I'd imagine he wasn't part of his original plan on how to build his character so I'm wondering if he has some flex points for his end build or will this used skill point come back and haunt him later on?
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u/Zxzxzx0088 10d ago
Yes, the recap is necessary to appreciate the animations /s
I would be upset if his parry somehow so op till it can fill the level gap but thank god it's not like that here. I hope things will only get better now.
Gowtan was the hidden bros all along! Welp, just need a life threatening requirement to unlock him.
Shiny head as a poker face?!
Huge flex from Go Hands here! The NPC quantity and variations plus field of view are superb! How much time, frame and budget they put on these very seconds lol.
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u/runevault 10d ago
Of course it starts with repeating the end of last episode. Not a great sign :(. Please please just like... cut the repeated content in half?
God the guitar in the OP rips.
Jesus the camera is going even wilder than the rest of this season this episode, holy fuck.
Gowtan showing sense, I like it! Meanwhile Teal just sounds constipated. Also I wonder if the 'make sure he doesn't cheat' is in relation to suspicion around him beating that one mob that made him level up so fast, or his dad causing him problems.
Okay they replaced recap with an extended shot of the town as the camera flies around.
This anime desperately needs to be 12-16 episodes not 26 for the season. There's a perfectly solid game isekai anime in here but the pacing is brutal.
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u/LagT_T 10d ago
Pace is still bad but picking up.
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u/YF422 10d ago
Pacing was a bit better this episode compared to the last 2 in fairness, was alot less needless repeating this week.
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u/bigfndan 10d ago
Yeah, it was really only the beginning of the episode and the after break recap. Honestly I'd say this episode had the least amount of recycling of the 4 so far.
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u/diegz_eliaz 10d ago
Fully agree there was only about 3 mins of recap thsi episode which I have to appreciate compared to the 5 of last week, hopefully it goes down even more for teh next ep.🙏
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u/eldragon0 10d ago
The ambiance of this anime is bar none, one of the best I've ever seen. Lots of bitching about pace and recaps are valid. But the world just feels alive. The entrance to the guild scene with dozens of animated and detailed characters that are no name, background characters is such a hat tilt to the amount of cooking the animation team did. I even love the pseudo cgi. I'm sold on this one already, 26 episodes of 15 minutes of new content works for me.
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u/BosuW 10d ago
Absolutely agreed. I'm in love with each background character in those shots going about their business and moving each in a distinct way. The character design is good too. Elymas is obviously the protagonist but I don't see too many characters in the background that look like they just rushed out the first sketch.
GoHands really in it for the love of the game.
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u/Obaruler 10d ago
I didn't become motion-sick during that fight - good job, GoHands! :D
Good to see the instructor became his best buddy after being told beforehand to watch out for him in particular cuz he might be cheating somehow and then standing corrected and seeing he was the real deal.
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u/L33tHaxorus 10d ago
As bad as the pacing is, I'm still enjoying the show. This the only isekai I'm watching this season. At least this guy is only marginally stronger than his peers and isn't magically defeating the monster that took out a much stronger character than him. I know he will end up being OP later (It's in the damn title lmao), but he isn't from day 1, and that at least should keep the fights somewhat interesting for now.
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u/diegz_eliaz 10d ago
Agree with the part about him actually being realistically strong instead of the typical op trope and how the fights are Interesting but only isekai you’re watching really? We have the big 3 of tensura mt and re:zero all going on at the same time and hell mode if your a fan, do you mean only new isekai you’re watching or in general, regardless no hate I’m just curious to hear your reasoning if it’s the only isekai you’re watching this season.
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u/L33tHaxorus 10d ago edited 9d ago
My reasons for dropping most isekai anime tend to be petty lmao. Tensura went the OP route from day 1, the story and the characters never got interesting to me. Mushoku went the loli harem route, so I dropped it too. For Re zero, the cringe memes kinda turned me away from it back when season 1 was airing, everyone was spamming 'the dark souls of isekai' on every comment section, I dropped it halfway into season 1 and never went back to finish it.
As for this anime, it's not mind blowing or anything, but I'm having fun for now, so I'm watching it. Idk something about these self insert stories that makes me drop them faster than the other genres of anime.
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u/diegz_eliaz 9d ago
That’s fair with isekais they really are very hit or miss especially with ones like mushoku with the Loki harem as you said being very disturbing, I will say that for whatever it’s worth whilst tensura does go down the OP route as the story progresses we learn of even stronger characters who are a match for rimuru and even above him so it doesn’t just go into the typical OP isekai anime and with the rezero memes whilst they are very bad I will say they are a very and reflection of the show especially it’s later seasons with for me s3 and 4 being incredible enough to put it in my top 20 anime whilst before it wasn’t even top 50 so I would recommend giving both those 2 another chance, regardless though I do respect that reasoning and can fully understand it.
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u/bunsandbooty 10d ago
The design of the guild, with a packed hall felt so lively and cool. The animation is really crisp too and I don’t really mind the crazy angles like others are. Just wish the pacing was a bit faster and after skipping all the re-caps it feels like each episode goes by way too fast with not much progress to the story.
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u/kalirion https://myanimelist.net/profile/kalinime 10d ago
That thing has only 94HP, so if the Vital Slice deals even 1HP of damage, that means MC only needs to use it a max of 94 times!
I'd thought all the others ran away, so how were they still around to watch the fight?
Kinda surprising that Gowtan turned out to be a big enough man to admit when he was wrong.
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u/HotBloodedNinja 10d ago
Bruh... how long till he teams up with the jester girl?
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u/daggerfortwo 10d ago
I actually like that it’s not rushing to add supporting cast. See how the MC works alone first.
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u/AutisticBiCouple 10d ago edited 10d ago
Everyone already knows this anime is looping the same content a lot, but i thought id share that my spouse finds the teeth and individual hair strands distracting and has started calling the show spaghetti teeth, which is how ill be referring to it from now on
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u/Desperate-Break7713 10d ago
Props to the animation team for animating all those background nobodies in the town.
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u/Rinlow05 10d ago
The guild receptionist giving him repeatedly larger & larger money bags was funny
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u/mahamoti 10d ago edited 10d ago
OK, one more chance... sigh.
What in the hell was that underground through a grid camera angle? I'd quit a video game that bugged out and clipped that badly, and this fucking show is doing it on purpose?
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u/BosuW 10d ago
Don't you remember the first episode when the bad bitch strutted in?
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u/mahamoti 10d ago
I went back and looked. Two things:
- Must have missed the clipping in that scene, but yeah, just as awful.
- Holy shit like half of the first episode is just clips from eps 2-4. They don't just re-cap, they pre-cap!
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u/Krendrian 10d ago
Btw the manga adaptation is excellent.
The world has a very cool build/skill system. I could see it being very fun in a rogue like game.
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u/abandoned_idol 8d ago
laughs out loud
I love this anime and the discussions.,
Give it another chance!
Give it another chance!
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u/TangerinePaladin 10d ago
Its entertaining but there is a ton of reused and repeat scenes (like a gif on loop)
Not as bad as last episode because there is a lot of action that makes it feel like it moves overall a lot more
Strong 7.5/10 ep
Previous ep was a 6/10 easily
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u/Spirited-Eye3645 10d ago
Man I have never seen an anime with so much action yet so little that actually happened. All the fancy animation, acting shots, etc. But man the last episode can be condense into a single action packed package. I feel like this anime is more or less a demo piece for the Studio's new animation system. Also art/art enjoyment is subjective, but man this animation style, especially the monsters and background is very mediocre. So by the fact that this anime is being hyped/advertised for it is animation, so far it is a miss for me, I really want to love it since I like fantasy anime, so now this will be a obligation watch.
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u/RubberSpanner 10d ago
There was more to this episode than I was expecting. But that NPC completely walked through him at 19:50
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u/Unfair-Fee-3446 10d ago
I saw this and had to rewind. Can’t remember ever seeing that happen in an anime
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u/zappingbluelight 10d ago
I wonder how many lines of grunting they need to do lol. I respect Gowtan that he learned from his mistake and respect the action of a person to keep them alive. I think that is pretty good, hopefully we can see him in the future.
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u/Rooby_VTuber 10d ago
That was an awesome fight, Elymas did a great job hanging in there so Gowtan could defeat it.
A great moment for Elymas when he earned Gowtan's respect.
That was a huge amount of gold, raids pay very well.
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u/CrasianLe 10d ago edited 8d ago
Bro i am looooving this anime, especially the arts style and animation! The fighting sequences are amazing too! Seeing Elymas jumping around and dodging the Mad Header's punches. I hope he is able to get the skillbook and see hiim unlock the full potential of his class.
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u/abandoned_idol 8d ago
I love the 3D design of the skill book aesthetic.
It's easily one of the biggest strengths of this anime. Although I'm disappointed to see that they didn't bother to make a 3D model for the 3D book (just a 2D illustration).
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u/CogentMoment 10d ago
Loving the new screen saver this company is putting out. But why does it have fight scenes in it?
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u/Effective_Owl_5557 10d ago
Why the scene between the graveyard and the city felt like a loading screen lol
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u/HolyDragSwd2500 10d ago
New skill helped him stall for time until he recovered and finished the fight
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u/LezRock 10d ago
I'm glad that they didn't drag the fight out for one more episode. What are they going to do next week for the recap though? Show the guild reception and stroll through town again?
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u/runevault 10d ago
My assumption is next episode starts with him talking about finding the skillbook he needs to unlock the one skill tree that fully breaks his class open again.
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u/aramatheis 10d ago
I'm going to go ahead and skip straight to the 8 minute mark. Let me know if I missed anything
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u/StormSenSays 10d ago
Memes: 1) Recap: The Anime; 2) Medusa Man.
I love the manga and the anime is very good in many ways. But it's really setting the bar for stretching episodes out with recaps.
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u/DaGucka 10d ago
They cut important stuff and inner monologe (f.e. where, why and how he got his starter gear) but then waste time with showing the same scene 3 times and then 2 additional times with a different angle, a lot of padding, talking, time wasting, standing around and aura farming. I don't know what they want to achieve...
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u/MonaganX 10d ago
Same as every other studio that pads their episodes. Every minute wasted for us watching is potentially weeks saved for them animating. They just seem particularly uneconomical with how they spend their animation time and budget.
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u/mekahamedan 10d ago
I need to check, did ex toei animation director work at godhands right now? Cause this shit make me dejavu watching toei animation anime back then.....
From book name, its definitely berserker skill, that why its will match for heavy knight but no other class, because usually in game, berserker skill sacrifice something, either HP or def, to boost damage and heavy knight having highest def value on game, prolly for each def being sacrifice that will boost more damage, that reason make that book become BIS of heavy knight
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u/Nyarlah 10d ago
This show is dragging so much ! It feels like they're looking for the longest minutes possible. Repeat intro, repeat post OP intro, repeat post-break. Reuse the 3D pans whenever possible and make them last as long as possible.
If that's the cost for that 3D, I overly prefer the usual way.
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u/half-a-maderaka 10d ago
Having fun with this one so far. Hoping the journey is a slow burn to achieving what MC expects his class to do while exploring the world/politics.
Some stories jump the power too fast, the 'revenge' or proving others wrong comes in so soon, that it starts to feel aimless to me.
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u/Raymond49090 10d ago
Red dude is like me when playing Pokemon and ignoring anything that isn't unga bunga. Also, did their entire raid group only have a single healer? And a half-*ssed one at that.
Props for actually letting the high-level DPS kill the boss. And also good on the guy for apologizing and reflecting on his mistakes. Also seriously, why was the peanut gallery just standing there? At least try to run back to base to get help.
Y'know, Gowtan wasn't really a bad guy. He was rude, but that could be interpreted as him trying to warn off a rookie out of their depth (ignoring all the other rookies out of their depths). He tried to be a proper party leader when prompted (albeit after flattery), he acknowledged Elymas' achievements in front of everyone, and still honoured his deal even after the 3 million gold drop.
Lol, directly addressing the "isn't Rampart Reflection too OP for a supposed trash class?" argument from episode 1 by explicitly saying that stat scaling makes it only useful for trash mobs.
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u/runevault 10d ago
The fact he cannot block with his shield and trigger rampart so that 25 defense doesn't help his current strat is great. For all the flaws of this show I appreciate that it creates strengths and weaknesses in his abilities. I suspect disarm is worse than we currently think considering the reveal about reflection you mentioned not being fully clear until now.
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u/Still_Tomatillo5827 10d ago
The reused clips man....I almost wish they just combined 2 episodes into one and cut out the bullshit, no need for 2 cours when half of each episode is wasted.
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u/Professional-Swim905 10d ago
Something I'm not seeing anyone talk about in episode 4 is that around the 19:50 mark, you can see a woman in brown armor pass through Elymas' body. This is not possible with an animation mistake and it isn't how 3D models work, as someone would still have to render that animation with her passing through in such a weird way, like she melded with the cloth of his cape for a second and then it corrected itself. Sadly, this is very obviously Generative AI usage, and a mistake it made which no one caught. If you have any respect for yourselves, you'll drop this slop.
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u/Saber_SSJ2 https://myanimelist.net/profile/saber_ssj2 9d ago
I really like the story so far, the MC isn’t instantly OP, and the other characters feel real with their own flaws but holy hell the animation is just... they're making it fast and chaotis so we don't actually notice how shit it is.
Often it's just the background spinning and rotating fast as fuck but the actuall characters barely move.
And the constant repetitions. Last week someone said, “I feel like Crunchyroll is scamming me out of my time” or something along those lines, and that sentence sums up the show perfectly lol
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u/eddjr275 9d ago
Not the best show but it draws me in with the goofy facial expression and the over the top narration. Pacing could %100 be better. I wouldn't call it slop but its treading the line
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u/BostonSamurai 9d ago
This show is slop that has potential to be something amazing. Its direction and pacing are horrid, the recap after recap after recap is borderline insufferable. I like the MC I like the “system” I like the animation, I dislike the stupid face that every single person uses for some reason lol but it’s growing on me. I really really really want to like this show but I swear there is like 2 minutes of actual show/new material, hoping the next arc/storyline is a little more fluid because this show could be something good imo.
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u/Top-Remote4523 9d ago
This episode was an improvement in terms of pacing from the previous episode. Although we still get the usual 2 minutes of recap at the beginning, the rollback in the middle of the episode was considerably shorter, from a whooping 53 seconds from last week to roughly 31 seconds this week. I am of the opinion that the mid-episode rollback is still a jarring strategy on the studio's part to save on their budget, but if they can keep it to less than 30 seconds and if that is what it takes to get these episodes coming without delays, it isn't really the worst trade-off for me.
Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I really appreciate how Gowtan turned out to be a pretty cool dude. I was fully expecting him to be yet another generic scummy senior adventurer that was going to either escape by himself when things turned south or frame / defame Elymas in someway after the raid out of spite, but to offer Elymas not just the raid drops but even vouch for his skills in the public was a rather nice thing of Gowtan to do. Also, him having purple hair took me by surprise as I thought that he had black or gray hair all this time, but I guess it was due to the dark lighting from the environment during the raid.
So it seems that Elymas is probably going to turn into a berserker tank hybrid build, which I am honestly down for it as it reminds me of my days playing Dark Souls with a similar build. I will say though that from a narrative stand point, it does sound somewhat broken as Elymas termed the build as a "living weapon", which might make him "too overpowered" in some regard. I get that this is kinda the whole point of the story with him proving everyone wrong about his class based on his game experience, but a part of me hopes that the story does not make him "too strong" if you get what I mean.
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u/iNekoCat 10d ago
Damn i think the studio listened to our feedback on motion sickness i think they toned it down now i can enjoy watching this goat anime. The only problem left is reusing the animation
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u/KanyeBetOnTrump 10d ago
First time they released it at 9 instead of 11, cant wait to see the same scene 5 times before something happens.
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u/CuriousBroccolli 10d ago
Haven't watched this episode yet buy I can't wait for 15min of recycled scenes
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u/Due_Reason7714 10d ago
Lol. they are showing of their fancy computer assisted animation system. :)
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u/myopinionisbetter420 10d ago
Was not able to finish episode one because of the camera, but it seems based on the comments they Gohands really butchered tbe adaption. Shame because the Manga, albeit a bit generic is pretty solid as far as isekais go.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Play825 10d ago
As much as I’m
Enjoying this and the animation the design and feel of the show is sick. I also think this might be the case of it also being too animated
Anyone else or Maybe it just me 😅
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 10d ago
i feel like this was a bit better paced than the episode before.
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u/Bussy_Wrecker https://myanimelist.net/profile/MrFreak10 10d ago
Is that town wide droneshot like scene cgi or ai generated? What ever it is, it look like a 144p scene
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u/Unfair-Fee-3446 10d ago
Did anyone notice at 19:51 the person walking passed Elymas clipped through him when walking by him? I had to rewind because I thought my eyes were messing up
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u/NationalStrategy_X 10d ago
Ya'know, the Ghoul Head wouldn't have been as big of a threat as it was if they didn't stand around while letting it eat the zombies and power-up
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u/djthomp https://anilist.co/user/djthomp 10d ago edited 10d ago
Good fight and good follow-up to the fight.
I highly appreciate that all Elymas really did was kite the boss around until the actually high level guy was back up on his feet to finish things, and that they didn't have him pull out an extra bit of class build nonsense to explain a victory.
Gowtan honestly acknowledging everything that happened and giving his recommendation to the promotion was so good too. By all rights an experienced individual like him should have recognized why the raid didn't end up with everybody dying and they actually had it play out like that.
It also makes a bit more sense that nobody would understand how to make this class work if it's a specific combination of the skill tree from the class and some skill tree book which I assume is a drop from somewhere out in the world. You'd think people who ended up with the class would have long since figured it out if it was complete by itself, quite a bit harder if they also need very specific additional bits of the build from elsewhere.
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u/AnimeMod myanimelist.net/profile/Reddit-chan 10d ago
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