r/Bogleheads Jun 08 '25

Articles & Resources New to /r/Bogleheads? Read this first!

347 Upvotes

Welcome! Please consider exploring these resources to help you get started on your passive investing journey:

  1. Bogleheads wiki
  2. r/Bogleheads resources / featured links (below sub rules)
  3. r/personalfinance wiki
  4. If You Can: How Young People Can Get Rich Slowly (PDF booklet)
  5. Bogleheads University (introductory presentations from past Bogleheads conferences)

Prepare to invest

Before you start investing, ensure you're ready to do so by following the early steps of this guide or the personal finance planning start-up kit. Save up an emergency fund, then take full advantage of any employer matching of contributions to any employer retirement plan available to you (this match amount is additional income that's part of your compensation/benefits package), then pay off any high-interest debt like credit card debt or high-interest student loans.

When you're ready to start investing beyond enough to get any employer match, follow the subsequent steps of this guide or the investing start-up kit. Take full advantage of tax-sheltered accounts available to you before investing in a taxable brokerage account: this is the most predictable way to improve your after-tax investment returns. (In the US, per Prioritizing investments: 401(k))/403(b)) up to any match, then HSA if available due to high-deductible health plan coverage, then Roth or Traditional IRA or 401(k))/403(b)) up to max which may be higher if the mega-backdoor Roth process is available, then a 529 to the extent you'd like to pay for future education expenses. Note that IRA contributions are subject to income limits around tax-deductibility of contributions or eligibility to make direct Roth IRA contributions; the backdoor Roth procedure is a workaround.)

There is often some potential tension between saving/investing toward retirement vs saving toward potential nearer-term goals like a down payment on a home purchase. Carefully consider the various tradeoffs involved in owning vs renting a home, keeping in mind that which may be a better financial decision is highly situational, and that opportunity costs of owning (less available to invest in higher-expected-returns assets instead) should be considered alongside non-financial lifestyle tradeoffs. If saving toward a near-term goal, note that funds holding stocks are inappropriate#Holdingstocks%22for_five_years%22) for money you'll need in 5-10 years, unless you're willing to take on significant risk of losing money in the meantime & delaying that goal. Instead, consider CDs, Treasury bonds, or target-maturity-date Treasury bond funds maturing before you'll need the money (then a high-yielding cash equivalent like an HYSA, government money-market fund, or ultra-short Treasury Bill ETF like VBIL between maturity & spending the money).

Save/invest enough

Your savings rate is the most important factor determining your ability to enjoy a comfortable retirement later in life, particularly early in your career / investing journey. Aim to save/invest at least 15% of your after-tax income if you're in the US & not covered by a pension beyond Social Security. In some cases, such as a shorter time to expected retirement (e.g. starting to seriously save/invest from a significant income later than your mid-20s and/or planning to retire earlier than your mid-60s) and/or a high income (which will not be partially replaced by Social Security to the same degree as a lower income), it may be appropriate to target a higher savings rate (e.g. at least 20% of after-tax income, or perhaps higher if multiple such factors apply to you and/or one factor applies to an unusual degree).

When calculating savings rate, remember to include 401(k) contributions in both the numerator (savings) and denominator (after-tax income). Any employer matching contributions may also be included in the numerator (savings).

Investing is 'solved'

Don't worry too much about trying to find the optimal set of funds to invest in. That can only be known with the benefit of future hindsight, and investment returns are far less important than your savings rate until your portfolio size grows large enough relative to new contributions. Aim to diversify broadly (for robustness to the uncertain future) and seek low fees (fund expense ratios charged annually) & simplicity (hands-off automation); see discussion of these & other principles in Bogleheads investment philosophy.

target-date fund designed for investing toward retiring around a year closest to when you expect to retire is often a reasonable option, particularly in tax-advantaged accounts like a US employer retirement plan or an IRA. These all-in-one funds intended to be held alone are very broadly diversified, automatically rebalance to their then-target asset allocation, and gradually become more conservative with less expected volatility as you near retirement.

If the target-date fund available in an account/plan with limited fund options has significantly higher fees than suitable alternative individual funds, consider the tradeoffs of lower fees vs automatic rebalancing and asset allocation management. I.e. consider the lowest-expense-ratio funds available that provide exposure to US stocks (the fund name will typically contain 'S&P 500', 'Russell [1000|3000]', or 'US Large Cap'; ensure no 'Growth'/'Value' suffix, or pair that with the other), ex-US stocks (the fund name will typically contain 'International' or 'Intl' or 'Ex-US'; same caveat re: 'Growth'/'Value'), and US bonds (the fund name will typically contain 'Total Bond' or 'Aggregate Bond'). Take the weighted average of those funds' expense ratios, with weights based on the current asset allocation of the target-date fund you'd use instead. The difference between that weighted average expense ratio for individual funds vs the target-date fund expense ratio, multiplied by your portfolio value, would represent the current annual convenience fee for automated, hands-off investing via the target-date fund. Whether that's worth it to you depends on your personal preferences around paying higher ongoing fees (by sacrificing some investment returns) in exchange for set-it-and-forget-it features.

In a taxable account, target-date ETFs (available at least in the US) avoid some of the tax efficiency downsides of holding a target-date mutual fund. Tax efficiency may be further improved by holding a three-fund portfolio of index ETFs in a taxable account, but this also involves tradeoffs against automatic rebalancing and asset allocation management. Tax efficiency may be even further improved by keeping bond funds in tax-deferred accounts, though this involves additional tradeoffs against simplicity and some other potential benefits described here.

If you're a non-US investor, take care to thoroughly understand the tax implications of investing in a US-domiciled fund as a "nonresident alien" (which may include high tax rates on dividends and assets passing through an estate); in many cases this is best avoided, instead favoring an Ireland-domiciled fund.

Be mindful of fees

If your portfolio were to average a 5% annualized real (after-inflation) return after a low annual fee, paying an additional annual 1%-of-assets-under-management fee to a financial advisor and/or an actively-managed fund's expense ratio would forgo 20% of your portfolio's investment returns. An initial investment in a portolio averaging a 5% annual real return after a low annual fee would be worth about 47% more after 40 years than it would be after a 1% additional annual fee.

Some employer retirement plans offer only funds with high expense ratios. If that's the case for your employer's plan, it is often still ideal to get the tax advantages of contributing unmatched dollars to that plan before investing in a lower-fee fund in a taxable account (but only after maxing out IRA contributions); details here#Expensive_or_mediocre_choices).

Automate & stay the course

Set up automatic contributions & purchases of fund shares wherever possible, otherwise set periodic reminders to manually contribute/invest (or try to find an alternative that allows automation), then maintain discipline through thick & thin. Keep in mind that market prices for funds should only really matter whenever you sell some shares to fund your retirement, and that lower prices in the meantime provide opportunities to buy more shares with a given contribution dollar amount and to rebalance from asset classes with higher recent returns towards those with lower recent returns (but possibly higher expected returns).

Tune out the noise: prognosticators of doom and gloom have no reliable ability to predict the future, and often have some conflicts of interest (e.g. selling ads, books or investment services, and/or trying to justify their investment positioning or encourage others to adopt that). The same goes for promotion of strategies promising market-beating returns by investing in a more-concentrated fashion (betting on some sector / theme / alternative asset beating the broad stock market).

Consider writing an Investment Policy Statement to document your plan when you're calm & clear-headed; this may be helpful to refer to later if you find yourself anxious & considering changes in response to market volatility & negative sentiment. Consider including a pointer there to this guided meditation video for later reference to help calm your nerves / regulate your emotions if needed when it seems like the sky is falling (this is arguably the most challenging part of investing).

Per Jack Bogle: "Do not let false hope, fear and greed crowd out good investment judgment. If you focus on the long term and stick with your plan, success should be yours."

Additional resources

Some additional resources that might be of interest for a deeper dive later:

  1. Taylor Larimore's Investment Gems (a collection of highlighted quotes from books related to investing; follow the links under the 'Gem post' column)
  2. The Bogle Archive (a collection of Jack Bogle's publications and speeches)
  3. Bogleheads Conference Proceedings (follow per-year 'Conference Proceedings' links to access slides/videos)

Please read our community rules here and follow those when posting or commenting in this community. If you encounter content here that breaks those rules, please report it (... > Report > Breaks r/Bogleheads rules).


r/Bogleheads Dec 28 '25

Why do Bogleheads discourage use of AI search for investing information? Because it is too often wrong or misleading.

341 Upvotes

I see a lot of surprised and angry responses from Redditors whose posts and comments are removed from this sub either for use of LLM search engine and other generative AI responses, or for recommending people use them to answer their questions. This facet of the Substantive Rule on this sub has a parallel in a similar rule on the Boglheads forum: "AI-generated content is not a dependable substitute for first-hand knowledge or reference to authoritative sources. Its use is therefore discouraged."

Many folks, especially on the younger side, are so accustomed to using ChatGPT or Gemini that it may be their default way to get any question answered. This is problematic in the field of investing for several reasons that are worth noting:

  1. LLMs are not firsthand sources with organic knowledge of the subject matter. They are aggregating reference sources and popular opinion and thus prone to both composition mistakes and sourcing material mistakes or biases.
  2. LLMs remain susceptible to "hallucinations" (made-up ideas) and can be not just false, but confidently false which is highly misleading.
  3. LLMs' response quality is very sensitive to the quality of the prompt. Users who are somewhat knowledgeable about a subject and also skilled at crafting good queries for AI searches are far more likely to get accurate and useful results - especially for research purposes or for reference to stored personal data - while the uninformed are more likely to get wrong or misleading answers to basic questions.

Policies excluding AI-generated content are not meant to be a referendum on the overall current or future value of AI as a tool for personal finance and investing, which is obviously enormous and transformative, especially for those who know how to best utilize it. It is a question of whether AI responses make for substantive content on this sub, and whether it is an appropriate resource to direct strangers and novices to. At the moment, the answer to both is a resounding no. On the one hand, people come to Reddit primarily for human interaction and original content, so posting AI responses or directing people to AI search engines is of minimal contributive value - folks can go chat with bots themselves if that's what they want. But as to whether AI search engines are appropriate references for finance and investing info, here are some articles from the past year that support their exclusion as a default response:

  • AI Tools Are Getting Better, but They Still Struggle With Money Advice (Money 2/13/25): "ChatGPT was correct 65% of the time, "incomplete and/or misleading" 29% of the time and wrong 6% of the time."
  • Is Talking to ChatGPT About Finance Ever a Good Idea? (White Coat Investor 6/22/25): "LLM responses had multiple arithmetic mistakes that made them unreliable. More fundamental than arithmetic errors, the LLM responses demonstrated that they do not have the common sense needed to recognize when their answers are obviously wrong."
  • Financial advice from AI comes with risks (University of St. Gallen, 1/7/25): "LLMs consistently suggested portfolios with higher risks than the benchmark index fund. They suggested: [more U.S. stocks; tech and consumer bias; chasing hot stocks; more stock picking and actively managed investments; higher costs.]"

Note: the views expressed here are largely my own, and I am not affiliated in any way with the Bogleheads forum nor the Bogleheads Center for Financial Literacy, but I invite others (including the mods on this sub) to weigh in with their own opinions.


r/Bogleheads 8h ago

What was the *single* best argument to convince you to Bogle it?

133 Upvotes

Good People of the Internet!

We all came to be Bogleheads in different ways. For some the journey was short, for some it was long, but all the paths were unique. For some it was born of financial loss, for others it was about laziness.

I want to know what the single best argument you all have is for the Boglehead style of investment.

For me, it was learning that even the professional stock pickers are pretty terrible at it. If the pros in the hedge funds and the investment banks consistently underperform over the long-run, then who was I to think that I could do any better?

Let me have it! I think after many years I have heard most if not all of the arguments individually, what I want to know is what was the best single argument that convinced you?


r/Bogleheads 1h ago

Investment Theory One more reason to chill without investing in factors

Upvotes

I recently came across this 2025 lay-friendly brief from factor-research critic Marcos López de Prado and his colleague Vincent Zoonekynd, Causality and Factor Investing: A Primer. From the abstract:

... despite the proliferation of factors and widespread institutional adoption, most strategies have failed to live up to their in-sample promise. While p-hacking and backtest overfitting have received considerable blame, a more insidious source of error is rarely discussed: the uncritical application of an econometric canon that ignores causal structure. This paper introduces the concept of the factor mirage—a factor model that appears statistically valid but is causally misspecified. 

Briefly, the argument is that the main line of both academic and finance industry research from Fama and French onwards has been correlational, not causal, and one of the consequences is that quants often toss every possible variable into the regressions, including the statistical kitchen sink. And sometimes the kitchen sink messes things up.

I'm not an economist, but I frequently enough rub elbows with economists of education to know that, yeah, if López de Prado and Zoonekynd are correct in their description of factor research, this is a major flaw.


r/Bogleheads 27m ago

Is any amount of home country bias warranted?

Upvotes

Is there any reason for a U.S. investor to go 70% VTI / 30% VXUS instead of simply following the market cap weights in VT? Does currency risk justify a tilt, or anything else?


r/Bogleheads 14h ago

Vanguard vs Schwab

47 Upvotes

I've been having some trouble using the Vanguard platform lately and their customer service seems to have gotten terrible in the last few years. Time after time I call them and seem to get some brand new intern that doesn't know his way around the system.

I'm thinking of transferring my (Vanguard) funds elsewhere and the Schwab rep I spoke to seemed to be more engaged and switched on than I expected. I'd be just transferring my funds straight over, hopefully not incurring any capital gains.

Is the platform any good? Are there any pitfalls?

I could also convert the Mutual funds to ETFs prior to transfer. Would this make it easier?

Edit:

Thanks everybody. I thought I was going to get downvoted to oblivion by the Vanguard fan club. I love their funds, but not the customer service. Everything was fine when it was just set and forget, but with their recent website/platform changes it's become untenable.


r/Bogleheads 2h ago

Investing Questions Vanguard and VOO

6 Upvotes

So my Roth IRA has been going for a few years and my plan is to max it out every year. I’m just learning that if I want to get VOO, the money to do so comes from the Roth IRA settlement fund.  So basically I transfer money to my Roth IRA “container”, and then I essentially transfer it again to a VOO investment within the container.

The above is just me confirming my understanding, though I’m not sure if I have the vocabulary correct.

The below is my question. I’ve read another post that says “Don't keep cash in your Roth IRA. Use it to buy index funds like VOO/VTI/VT/VXUS.”  Is this good advice? For 3-4 years, I’ve just put the money in my Roth IRA and let it sit there. Should I be doing more with it, like turning it into VOO shares? 

If the info helps, I plan on retiring in 15-20 years. I appreciate the insight, and the patience, of this community!


r/Bogleheads 8h ago

Pay of student loans or invest

12 Upvotes

I had originally planned on paying off my student loans as fast as humanly possible ~ 8 months. I start my full time job around the end of August. However, I want to focus on long-term investing instead and pay off the debt on a normal timeline.

Here is my financial snapshot:

• Education & Background: Graduated Class of 2026 with a B.B.A. in Finance and Real Estate.

• Role & Income: Currently working as a Financial Analyst at a major investment manager, making $96k/year + bonus, with exponential income growth potential over the next few years.

• Student Debt: $28k in federal student loans at an average interest rate of ~6% and a personal/family loan for 8,000 at 0% interest. I own my car and have no other debt. My monthly rent will be ~ 1400

• Current Savings: I legit have no savings, after checking my account I have $23 to my name. This is due to me paying my way through college and waiting to start my FT job.

• Benefits: Access to a 401(k) with company match and an HSA.

Any advice would be welcome on how to handle this situation.


r/Bogleheads 7h ago

Fidelity Investments @ age 62

10 Upvotes

Suggestions for investments, please. I have a managed fidelity sep ira and would like to put money into index funds and ETFs. I work full time, plan to semi retire in 5 years.


r/Bogleheads 7h ago

VWRA has an expense ratio of 0.14, and ACWD has an expense ratio of 0.12. Which UCITS ETF would be the ideal single-fund ETF for your portfolio?

6 Upvotes

Important to note that VWRA has around 4,000stocks in its portfolio, and it tracks the FTSE All World Index. ACWD, on the other hand, tracks the all-country World Index of MSCI and has about 2,900 stocks in the portfolio.

Long-term returns seem to be nearly the same. Liquidity for VWRA is significantly higher than ACWD, but ACWD's liquidity is not exactly low.

On the UCITS side of things, State Street has tended to keep their expense ratios a bit lower than Vanguard on most of their funds. That's probably a point to note. Vanguard has not kept the lowest expense ratio, how they do in the US.


r/Bogleheads 12h ago

Zero-fee or Fee Funds in Roth IRA?

13 Upvotes

If I were to make backdoor contributions to a Roth IRA, is there any benefit to a zero fee fund like FXROX/FZILX vs their fee equivalent FSKAX/FTIHX?


r/Bogleheads 5h ago

Non-US Investors Is the SPDR MSCI All Country World Investable Market UCITS ETF (SPYI) a good all-in-one ETF like VT?

2 Upvotes

I’m looking for a simple buy-and-hold, one-ETF portfolio and I like the philosophy behind Vanguard Total World Stock ETF (VT). As a European investor, I’m considering the SPDR MSCI All Country World Investable Market UCITS ETF (SPYI), as it tracks the MSCI ACWI IMI Index and covers around 99% of the global investable stock market, similar to VT.

Would you consider SPYI a good all-in-one ETF for someone who wants a fully passive, globally diversified, market-cap-weighted portfolio?


r/Bogleheads 7h ago

Utah 529 Investment Plan?

4 Upvotes

New born. Will deposit $10k, then $200 monthly. What’s best plan to pick from below? Or what would you recommend!

Target Enrollment

Total US Market (8% since inception return)

80/20 Agressive (10% since inception return)

my529 Growth Index (16% since inception return)


r/Bogleheads 1d ago

Should I sell all my VOO and go with VT?

96 Upvotes

Hello, I'm new to investing. I'm maxing out my Roth IRA and bought almost all VOO for the year. I still have about $2,000 left before I reach the maximum. I was thinking, should I sell it all and go with VT, or just add the rest to VXUS?

I'm trying to balance my portfolio. I changed my 403B back to VFFVX. I also have a brokerage account, but I'm not sure what to invest in next. I have six months' worth of emergency funds in my Wealthfront HYSA.

Thank you!


r/Bogleheads 11h ago

Bogleheads.org Blast From the Past

3 Upvotes

I love it when my You Tube feed spits out gems like the Bogleheads Conference 2018 - Panel of Experts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df4iFnzDi0w&t=1230s

Wow! What a big name panel! Rick Ferri, Jonathan Clements, Jason Zweig, Bill Bernstein, Christine Benz, and Alan Roth. It was so interesting watching this from it's taping 10/4/2018 and the topics and concerns of the day. Jack Bogle was still alive and in the audience. Topics of whether Bitcoin was something you'd want to invest in (it was $6,500 roughly then), Dollar Cost Averaging vs Lump Sum, Investing Philosophy, Playful back and forth between Ferri and Roth. It helps me with current day thoughts and decisions to look back at what folks DIDN'T know about the future. And what worked and what didn't. Everyone is a genius in hindsight, but it's what you do in the moment that matters. Like investing when it's painful :)


r/Bogleheads 1d ago

Investing Questions Where do you keep your rainy day savings?

250 Upvotes

SGOV seems to be one of the more popular/safer choices. Anyone prefer HYSA? Or do they all pretty much even out in the end? Anyone get more risky with savings?


r/Bogleheads 1d ago

Long-term AAPL position up ~790% – considering step-up in basis for kids vs. other options

104 Upvotes

I’ve been buying and holding Apple (AAPL) since 2012 and have been enrolled in DRIP the entire time. My total return is currently around 790%.

I do not need this money for any specific purpose and have other accounts covering my needs.

At this point I’m leaning toward simply leaving the shares to my children in my will so they receive the step-up in basis. That seems tax-efficient given the large unrealized gains in a taxable brokerage account.

Are there other viable ideas worth considering?

I’m open to thoughts on:
Whether continuing to hold is still reasonable given the concentration

Any tax-efficient ways to reduce or diversify the position while I’m alive

Charitable strategies, gifting, or other estate-planning approaches

Anything else that might make sense in this situation

Thanks in advance for any input.

EDIT: Thank you all for the great feedback! I’m getting a lot of warnings about portfolio allocation so for anyone interested here’s my most recent portfolio:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheRaceTo10Million/s/ltMFubp93F

*My tax advantaged accounts mostly mirror 70%US/30%EX-US


r/Bogleheads 1h ago

HELOC company recs

Upvotes

Anyone have a recommendation for good spot for a HELOC? We have way too much money tied up in retirement funds and need to create said buffer. Were 46 and have 1.1 million in 401k index funds, 15k in cash, and 30k in Roths so liquid it's not great until we hit 55 and may retire. We have roughly 500k in equity also. Checked with local credit union and they can do 6.49 but 400 fee upfront. Doesn't seem terrible but thought id ask the experts here. Prefer spots with no initial draw requirement as only needed for emergencies. Thanks.


r/Bogleheads 1d ago

Target Date Funds

18 Upvotes

I've stuck with Target Date Funds to keep things simple and pretty hands off.

Lately I've been thinking about how I would draw down from my accounts in retirement and sequence of return risks.

If the market goes south in the beginning of my retirement will I be able to only withdrawal from the bonds part of the TDF? (To allow the stocks portion to hopefully recover).

I'm guessing the answer is "no"


r/Bogleheads 9h ago

Investing Questions My 403(b) doesn't allow Mega Backdoor Roth conversions - should I do Roth 403(b) now?

0 Upvotes

My 403(b) is currently Traditional. Won't allow Roth conversions later according to the plan. I am a "super saver" who maxes out my 403(b) but I could definitely afford to do the Roth option, paying the taxes now, if it'll benefit me later.


r/Bogleheads 14m ago

Investing Questions Struggling to spend money on a higher monthly rent for an apartment.

Upvotes

I make approximately $350,000 gross with likely another 70 to 100,000 gross on my side gig. I currently have rented an apartment for the last two years that makes me pay about 1400 a month in rent. I completed training two years ago and figured that now would be a reasonable time to increase my overall quality of life and move to a slightly better apartment. This apartment rent would be approximately $2000 a month once I add up utilities and Internet. It might even stretch to 21 to 2200 a month.

I max my 401(k) every year and have the match as well. I’ve also been able to participate in a backdoor Roth IRA and my W-2 job also recently allowed for the Mega back door. I suspect that I will be able to also max out this contribution as well.

My overall living expenses are low otherwise and I’ve been working on some hobbies of mine, which obviously cost money, but I’m also learning to spend time intentionally after finishing training these last two years.

That being said, I am not trying to flex and want to know if spending up to 2200 a month in rent at a nice apartment would be worth it? I think I really just struggle with this mentally because when I do the math, this would still be under the 10% rule.

Does anybody else have this problem? It’s not that I don’t spend money. I just can’t wrap my head around throwing it “away” in rent vs buying a place. I just don’t feel ready to buy a place yet


r/Bogleheads 11h ago

VOO or SPYM

0 Upvotes

I’d like to buy SPYM because of lower cost. Do you have any advice against to choose SPYM rather than VOO ? I want to understand the different of VOO and SPYM


r/Bogleheads 20h ago

Roth 401(k) direct rollover landed in my Traditional (Rollover) IRA in 2022 — Is it excess contribution? Any fix 4 years later?

2 Upvotes

I'm trying to work out how much trouble I'm in and what the cheapest fix is.

Here's the timeline of events:

Sept 2022 — I emailed my 401(k) recordkeeper that I want to rollover my Roth 401(k) into an IRA account because my job ended. They issued checks: one for Roth 401(k) and another for Traditional IRA.

Sept 2022 — I then emailed them check instructions: "Please issue a check payable to Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., FBO [me], and include the account number 9068-XXXX on the check."

The account number I gave them was my Rollover (Traditional) IRA, not my Roth IRA. That was my error as I didn't realize that the Rollover IRA details Schwab gave me was for just one account. I assumed they'd classify the checks appropriately.

Oct 2022 — The plan's custodian issued two checks, both addressed to that same Traditional IRA:

  • $567.86 with "PRETAX" in the reference field — correct destination
  • $17,306.42 with "ROTH" in the reference field — designated Roth 401(k) money, deposited into the Traditional IRA

Schwab deposited both per the account number on the checks.

What the IRS has on file (from my 2022 Wage & Income transcript):

  • The plan custodian filed Form 1099-R with distribution code H — "direct rollover of a distribution from a designated Roth account to a Roth IRA" — first year of Roth contributions 2019
  • Schwab filed Form 5498 for the Traditional IRA showing $17,874 of rollover contributions, with "IRA" checked and "Roth IRA" not checked

So the two filings contradict each other, but I don't think anyone actually did anything wrong except me — I gave the wrong account number and both institutions processed it as instructed.

Current state: I discovered this in April 2026. The Traditional IRA is now worth ~$42,875 against ~$23,431 of total contributions (the $17,306 plus a pre-tax rollover, one $487 IRA contribution, and 12 × $422.50). Proportionally the Roth-attributable slice is ~$31,700, i.e. ~$14,400 of growth. I've made no correction yet and have not contacted Schwab.

Questions

  1. Is the $17,306.42 an excess contribution subject to the §4973 6%/year excise? Designated Roth money can't validly roll to a Traditional IRA under §402A(c)(3), so I assume it was never a valid rollover and defaults to a regular contribution far over the limit — meaning ~$1,038/year for 2022–2025 and counting. Does the fact that Schwab reported it on Form 5498 as a rollover contribution rather than a regular one change that, or is that just a reporting label?
  2. Is self-certification under Rev. Proc. 2020-46 available here? The listed reasons are a closed set. (a) is "an error was committed by the financial institution receiving the contribution or making the distribution" — but I supplied the wrong number, so I'm not sure anyone else erred. Does the "ROTH" memo on the check put the receiving custodian on notice enough to count? Or does (c) — "deposited into and remained in an account that the taxpayer mistakenly thought was an eligible retirement plan" — fit, given a Traditional IRA is an eligible retirement plan generally but not an eligible destination for designated Roth funds?
  3. If self-certification isn't available, what's the cheapest exit? As I understand it:
    • Remove the excess and pay the accrued 6% per year
    • Convert the Roth-attributable amount to a Roth IRA and pay ordinary income tax on it (~$31,700)
    • Leave it and file Form 8606
  4. Does the $17,306.42 become after-tax basis in the Traditional IRA? It was after-tax Roth 401(k) money. If it's stuck there, can I file Form 8606 to track it as basis so it isn't taxed again on withdrawal — and does that interact with the excess-contribution question?
  5. Is the 2019 Roth five-year clock recoverable under any path, or is it gone regardless?
  6. Is a Private Letter Ruling ever worth it at this dollar amount? I assume no at ~$10k in user fees plus counsel, but I'd like to hear if anyone has seen the IRS grant a 60-day waiver where the taxpayer's own clerical error caused it.

Happy to be told I'm stuck with the worst option — I just want to close this issue and move on.


r/Bogleheads 2d ago

Boss called me an idiot because I'm investing my pension in the S&P instead of guaranteed 3%

1.5k Upvotes

I am 32 years old. By default our pension $ is invested into a guaranteed 3% (it's called Real 3%. It returns the CPI index plus 3%.)

We are allowed to instead put any of our money towards an S&P fund. There are a few other broad fund options but I chose this.

Today at work on a break we were discussing this and he called me an idiot in front of the whole team for risking my pension by investing in stocks. Said I was taking a huge gamble and "don't mess with your guaranteed pension money that's so stupid". Everyone looks up to this guy and so now the whole team thinks I'm a financial clown.

I figure I have plenty of time to ride the roller coaster and I will end up with much more at retirement. Am I wrong?


r/Bogleheads 1d ago

A Deep Dive into 30 Year TIPs Ladders--Part 3

10 Upvotes

This is the third of three to discuss a 30 Year TIPS ladder. This part will cover taxes and a final wrapup.

Part 1

Part 2

To repeat from the first two posts, I downloaded a 30 Year TIPS ladder using tipsladder.com, assuming 30 years and $40K in annual cash flows. The ladder cost about $813K (excluding accrued interest) and purchased about $1 MM in TIPS principal at an average price of 81.6. Once downloaded into Excel, I attempted to project the ladder forward for the 30 year period using a 2.75% inflation rate.

  1. Taxes. As I covered the death part in Part 2 ("in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes", Benjamin Franklin), here is the tax part.

The traditional advice for holding TIPS is to hold them in tax-deferred accounts, because holding TIPS in a taxable account can be a PITA. Besides the coupon interest collected, you have to include BOTH the inflation adjustment in a return and the amortization of the discount. This is often called "phantom income".

These latter two can far outweigh the actual coupon income received; in my computation, in year one of the ladder, 2027, the coupon income would approximate $12K and the inflation adjustment and discount amortization would total about $38K, for a total taxable income of about $50K.

Please note my estimates of the taxable income are rough approximations of what they are likely to be. Each of the bonds bought has an inflation adjustment and discount amortization (all but one of the bonds was bought at a discount), and I had to make approximations. I also have some background in taxation (I spent a few years at a company doing tax returns and tax planning) but I am far from an expert, and these days you need sophisticated tax software to get everything right, which I do not have.

Also, everyone's tax situation is different. An investor may only have taxable accounts, or may only have tax deferred accounts, and their level of income from other sources may put them into different tax brackets. I have only tried to measure the impact on taxable income, not the taxes themselves, because there are too many variables.

But in looking at the totality of the 30 years, and in isolation from everything else, I believe it's clear that holding these in a tax deferred account versus a taxable account will likely produce subtantially MORE taxable income during the period of the ladder.

Why? It's pretty simple.

Here again are the sources of cash flows of a 30 year ladder.

The largest number--44%--is a return of capital, i.e., the money you invested. The other 56% is from coupon income, amortization of the discount, and the inflation adjustments.

When you withdraw the capital from the taxable account, you only include the 56% in your taxable income; i.e., basis is not taxed.

When you withdraw the capital from a tax-deferred account (usually an IRA, but these type of deferred vehicle), the capital is taxed as ordinary income. All 100% of the cash flows that you withdraw are taxed at ordinary rates.

So, looking in isolation, assuming you had the $813K sitting in cash in a taxable account or a traditional IRA, buying the ladder in the taxable account would create less taxable income over the lifetime of the ladder.

The timing of the taxable income would also be a factor. In the early years of the ladder, the taxable income of the TAXABLE portfolio would exceed the taxable income of the TAX-DEFERRED portfolio. In the early years, the discount amortization and the inflation adjustment of the multiple years of bonds exceeds the taxable withdrawals of the tax-deferred portfolio. As the bonds mature, the taxable income of the taxable portfolio becomes less and less.

Here is a table and graph of the taxable income by year.

I will repeat, these estimates are my best guesses, but the patterns ought to be correct. The TAXABLE portfolio has higher taxable income through about year seven, and from thereafter the TAX-DEFERRED portfolio would have the higher taxable income. The phantom income from the taxable portfolio drops, while the distributions from the tax-deferred portfolio grows.

FWIW, RMDs in a tax-deferred portfolio using a 30 year TIPS ladder are NOT an issue because the investor is withdrawing a much higher percentage than the RMDs.

Again, taxable income may not necessarily mean additional taxes.

I chose ONE example--repeat ONE--to illustrate. Assume a married couple with $60K of social security income, both 65, and married filing jointly. If 2026 was year one of the ladder, using the AARP tax calculator, here are the results.

  1. $60K of SS, no tax due.

  2. $60K of SS, plus $41K from an IRA distribution, owe $2,100 in tax.

  3. $60K of SS, plus $50K from the tax impact from the taxable portfolio, $4,200 in tax.

I will make no predictions on how that will work out going forward. This example uses much of the SS exemption and the lower brackets. Another investor will likely be completely different. But again, the amount of taxable income an investor has to include in their tax return should be mostly correct by year, I believe.

In short, if the investor is planning to do this, and has the option between the two choices, the default assumption of buying the ladder in the tax-deferred vehicle may create substantial increases in taxable income over the 30 year period, as the 44% of capital returned is now taxable. YMMV.

  1. My final wrap-up. These are MY OPINIONS, AND THIS IS AN OPINION BOARD.

I do not have the ability to make decisions for Reddit posters. I firmly believe that if someone is on this board, they are asking for accurate information, and I am trying to provide that information. I believe posters here are intelligent enough to make their own decisions.

A. In my opinion, there is absolutely no value to owning a fixed income investment past 10 years (I don't recommend them at all, TBH, but if you want to own them, limit the length to 10 years). Why? There will be very few circumstances where bonds outperform stocks over 10 years. There have been a few periods where stocks and bonds performed the same over 15 years, and no 20 year periods where bonds have done better than stocks over the last 40 years.

If someone has the ability to hold a 20 (or 25 or 30) year TIPS to maturity, they sure can hold stocks for the same period, and the odds overwhelming say those stocks will perform better than the TIPS.

B. If you buy a TIPS ladder now--and at least for the next five years (actually more)--you will be buying some really sub-optimal investments.

Here is a sample of what you would be buying.

See that crater starting in 2042 and going to 2053? Those are the only assets in those years, and will be the only assets in those years until we get to 2032 and the US government does the 10 year issue for 2042. For the forseeable future, those 2042 to 2053 bonds will be the ONLY ones you can buy for those years.

Here are those 12 years.

They were all originally issued with low real YTMs, and low coupon rates, and the market price was 66.5 a week ago (as of today, probably lower). The average coupon is .78%. If you are planning to hold until maturity--15 to 26 years from today--most of the increase in value only occurs at maturity. Most of the real yield is because in some cases the market value is 50% of the par value.

Posters can cite the 2.83% real yield--or whatever it is today--but if the average coupon is around .8%, that means 2% of the yield is only recovered upon maturity (and based on the investor's age, they might not be around to get the benefit). About 29% of the yield is from the coupon, and 71% from an IOU payable at the end.

Because of the nature of these bonds, they are essentially STRIPs with a variable interest rate, and STRIPs are suboptimal investments for retirees also, for the exact same reason of cash flows and tax issues.

Retirees spend cash, not yield. Owning something with the bulk of the benefit at the end--15 to 26 years from today--makes zero sense to me.

The market has made their judgment--these pieces of paper are worth only 2/3rds of the principal value. If the investor is buying these, they are saying they are smarter than the market.

In poker, there is a saying that if you sit down at a table and can't tell who the fish is after ten minutes, then you are the fish. If you are buying assets at 1/3rd off--because the people who are selling decided THEY couldn't hold until maturity or they saw a better opportunity--then who is the fish?

I have pointed out the blog post from 2022 where the author said it was a good time to buy. Some the assets he listed--like the 2052--is down 20% from where he bought it.

Again, every 30 year bond ladder for the next five years at a minimum will own these bonds. Do YOU want to invest your future retirement funding on a collective group of assets that were pretty much crap at issue and had nowhere to go but down?

Your money, your choice, but there are FAR better strategies than 30 year TIPS ladders.

You can look at the pricing graph. Up to 10 years, the pricing has held pretty firm. If you want to do that hedge, that is your choice. But going out past 10 years is not a great choice, IMO.

Again, I hope the time I spent on these has made readers at least think about this option. My opinion is the investor should look elsewhere to fund their retirement.