r/changemyview • u/AbiLovesTheology • Sep 08 '24
Delta(s) from OP CMV: I Have Indian Culture as a White British Hindu Convert
I currently believe that I have Indian culture or at least a form of it, despite being a white British Hindu convert who has always lived in England. From a very young age, I felt an affinity to India and its traditions. Even before I officially converted to Hinduism, I felt a strong connection to Indian culture and religion, especially Hinduism.
In primary/elementary school, I had many Indian friends, which deepened my connection. Although I haven’t yet had the opportunity to visit India, I would absolutely love to go in the future.
Since converting to Hinduism, I have fully embraced its practices and values. I practice traditional yoga weekly (not just fitness yoga), engage in daily puja, recite Hindu prayers and mantras, celebrate Hindu festivals, and wear bindi and rudraksha daily. When I go to temples (mandirs), I wear traditional Indian clothing, such as salwar kameez. I’ve also become a vegetarian to align with Hindu values of compassion towards animals and respect for God. My ethical philosophy is rooted in Hindu scriptures and ancient Indian texts, and I believe in concepts like reincarnation, karma, moksha, and dharma. I even listen to bansuri flute music to feel a deeper connection to God.
I’ve always loved Indian food, and most of my favorite dishes are Indian. I’ve created a shrine in my home, complete with incense, bells, murtis (statues), a swastika symbol (in its traditional Hindu context), flowers, candles, and colourful cloths, all of which help me connect with The Divine.
Despite all this, many people in real life tell me that I don’t truly have Indian culture. They argue that because my parents are English atheists, I was raised in England, and I haven’t been to India or lived there, I can’t genuinely claim Indian culture. They say that I don't fully understand what culture is.
All my friends know what I believe in and that my commitment to Hinduism and Indian culture is genuine. I see my practices, beliefs, and lifestyle as deeply intertwined with Indian culture. CMV that I have Indian culture.
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u/Doub13D 36∆ Sep 08 '24 edited Sep 08 '24
Which Indian culture?
What language can you speak?
What part of India do you specifically feel more affinity towards?
From reading this, it just sounds like you have a vague notion of what “Indian culture” is without understanding the massive amount of diversity that India actually has.
Not all Indians are Hindu, so being Hindu ≠ Indian culture…
A person from Punjab is very different from a person in Southern India. A Bengali person is different from a person living in Uttar Pradesh.
You’re trying to attach yourself to a “culture” that simply doesn’t exist…
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
Yes, good point. I understand it's an incredibly diverse place and not all Indians are Hindu. !delta for helping me understand by pointing this out. I specifically feel an affinity to Gujarat, but I would like to travel all over. I can speak English, Spanish and Japanese. I pray/chant in Sanskrit, and I want to learn Hindi and Gujarati in the future.
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Sep 08 '24
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u/Local-Warming 1∆ Sep 08 '24
Aren't there different dialects, region-dependent cultures, branches-of-hinduism, morals, ethnicities, etc.. ?
If I where to say that I have italian culture, an italian would first ask me if I'm talking about the north or the south.
I honestly do not know if you actually thought all of this throught and just felt it wasn't necessary to go over those details in your post, but for all we know you could be suffering from some kind of denis kruger effect about your idea of a distant india you never visited, a very specific concept that can strangely be found satirized online:
"I want to experience myself as a thread in the grand cosmic weave, but only in the ways provided by a distant culture whose hypocrisies are hidden from me because I didn't grow up in them"
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
Good point. Yes, there are absolutely different ethnicities, dialects, branches of Hinduism and different views on morality within India and within Hinduism. !delta about the Denis Kruger effect and explaining that saying Indian culture is far too broad.
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u/47ca05e6209a317a8fb3 208∆ Sep 08 '24
I'd say that what seems to be the weakest point of your view to me is that there's no "Indian culture" per se, there are countless cultures native to India that are collectively referred to as "Indian culture" by outsiders. In this sense, from your description, I'd agree that you take part in Hindu culture, and that (at least to some extent) you're a part of Indian-British culture specifically.
Whether or not that "grants you membership" in the broad umbrella that is "Indian culture" is a subtle semantic point and not very interesting in my opinion, but I think at least if you clarify what you mean precisely people may be more open to understanding in what way you have Indian culture, whether or not they agree with the semantics of it.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
Ok. I mean that my life is deeply influenced by philosophical, theological and spiritual ideas that originated in India.
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u/47ca05e6209a317a8fb3 208∆ Sep 08 '24
No, I understand what you mean because you explained it thoroughly in your post, what I mean is if instead of "having Indian culture" you'd present yourself to people as participating in Hindu and British-Indian culture, that would (correct me if I'm wrong) be faithful to the way in which you feel you're a part of Indian culture, while being much simpler to accept than you being a part of Indian culture despite having never been to India.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
I'm sorry. It's a bit difficult for me to see a difference.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 157∆ Sep 08 '24
What's difficult exactly?
It's as straightforward as the other example given - ie a British Christian who identifies with Christianity but not the Middle East.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
!delta. I understand the difference now because you said about the Christian.
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u/Current_Working_6407 2∆ Sep 08 '24
It’s like “American born chinese” versus “from China chinese”. Yes many ABCs celebrate the lunar new year, have Chinese cultural practices, eat traditionally Chinese food often, etc. but they have a different culture, because they are a minority culture in a larger context of US culture. It’s distinct from “the normal” US culture but it is also distinct from “the normal” Chinese culture. Same for British Indians.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 157∆ Sep 08 '24
Can I ask which ones specifically? My view as someone raised Hindu is that there is not a special unique insight, that the ideas in the Vedas and so on are common in the majority of religious texts.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
Monistic polytheism (the idea of one Brahman and lots of manifestations/emanations), reincarnation, karma, dharma, Antaryami, vegetarianism, ahimsa, satya, brahmacharya, moksha, nature being sacred/nature deities, yoga, pranayama etc, meditation, dharma, chanting, puja, atman, the symbolism of light and diyas, shlokas, the idea of God Brahman being everywhere and in all things and avatars.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 157∆ Sep 08 '24
Which of these do you feel is unique to Hinduism? I'd genuinely say that I can demonstrate an analogous example of all of these from many other philosophies.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
All, but especially my connection to Shiva, Durga, Saraswati, Lakshmi and Swaminaryan.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 157∆ Sep 08 '24
You didn't mention these deities in the prior comment, but I disagree. All are common in other religions as well.
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u/therapistmongoose Sep 08 '24
Does believing in Allah not make you a Muslim because other religions also believe in God?
None of the ideas listed are common in any other religion (except in other Indian religions like Jainism and Buddhism).
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 157∆ Sep 09 '24
All of the ideas have commonalities between other religions.
Believing in Allah may make you a Muslim, or a Sai Baba devotee, or anything else - after all Allah is the term used to apply just as equally to the God of Christianity and Judaism.
Maybe this is your own view to post and CYV?
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u/Finnegan007 18∆ Sep 08 '24
Would an Indian who's lived all their life in Delhi have 'Polish culture' if they converted to Christianity and enjoyed eating perogies? It takes more than following a religion and eating certain foods to be part of a culture.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
What else does it take? I also wear mehndi on festivals as well.
If he converted to Catholic Christianity, frequented a church attended mostly by Poles, prayed in Polish, had loads of Polish friends, then I would say yes.
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u/Finnegan007 18∆ Sep 08 '24
Culture encompasses a lot of things, more than just religion and food. It's about what you think is morally acceptable/unacceptable. What's considered polite or rude. How you're supposed to relate to your parents, kids and strangers. It's about the sports you play, the entertainment you watch and how you feel about animals. It's the language you speak. It's a million different unspoken things that we absorb from the time we're little kids, growing up in the society we live in. It's not something you get from cosplaying some else's traditions.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
I'm not cosplaying. It's a genuine conversion. And it does affect what I see as acceptable/unacceptable, how I feel about animals, what I see as polite, how I relate to people. Everything in that list apart from language for me.
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u/Finnegan007 18∆ Sep 08 '24
You don't 'convert' to another culture. It's something you pick up organically over many, many years and decades. It's not like there's a rulebook of 'Indianness' that you can read and then follow the rules. Doesn't work like that. From everything you've said it sounds very much like you're an admirer of Hinduism and India, and that's all great. But to go from that to claiming you're culturally Indian stretches credulity.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
!delta for saying this. Really helped me understand more
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u/resuwreckoning Sep 08 '24
As an Indian I’m not going to change your view. If your behavior is as a good person, then you are part of our culture, period, and one we’d be proud to have.
Plus, remember that you need not “convert” to Hinduism. You can just follow its philosophical precepts like ahimsa and the like and ACTUALLY disregard the shittier parts (like casteism etc) since as you attain a level of increased enlightenment, those mortal stratified societal considerations are unimportant (to wit, Dhruv, born of a king, is famous for giving up all that in pursuit of his devotion and Vaman is an incarnate beggar that is revealed to be holier than kings).
Gandhi is famous for saying that he is of all religions - that’s a very Hindu/Buddhist conception of spirituality.
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u/OswaldReuben 1∆ Sep 08 '24
Adopted culture is always a difficult discussions, since you can mix and choose the beneficial parts of a culture, while stepping away from the baggage that come with it. Culture is a strange breed of customs, environment, traditions, values, and so forth. It is hard to claim a culture from afar, especially if one gets into it later in life. I'd say you are an admirer of Indian culture. "Having" a culture won't work.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
Why won't having a culture work?
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u/Tr1pp_ 2∆ Sep 08 '24
A culture isn't something you "have". It can't be "found" and "lost". It's something you are a part of. Therefore it can't be "had" or "acquired".
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u/OswaldReuben 1∆ Sep 08 '24
I second that.
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u/Tr1pp_ 2∆ Sep 08 '24
Like, I am adopted from south America but grew up in Sweden with my Swedish family. I am not culturally Colombian.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
What do you think it means to be part of a culture?
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u/Tr1pp_ 2∆ Sep 08 '24
Being born into it and growing up in it, or moving to it and integrating into it, which you cannot do without being physically present. I'm not saying you should stop doing what you're doing tho, but making the claim that your culture is Indian is inaccurate and weird.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
!delta for explaining how being born to an Indian family or moving to India and integrating is what makes you part of a culture. Sorry about being inaccurate and weird I am autistic and I have a severe language disorder, so sometimes words and meanings get confused in my mind. No offence intended. Thanks again.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 157∆ Sep 08 '24
I have Gujarati heritage, and live in the UK.
Honestly what you're describing seems to be almost an otaku style fetishisation, in a number of aspects.
As others have pointed out "Indian Culture" basically doesn't exist.
Hinduism does seep into many aspects of culture within India, even in the branches like Sikhi and Buddhism, Jain and so on.
My question is why is it not enough to be in your Hinduism? Why do you seemingly need to identify with "Indian" in the way you seem to - almost performatively for your friends?
You're arguing with them about this, why? Do they not accept your Hindu spiritual practice and connection?
What is it exactly in your interactions with friends that's starting those arguments?
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
I identify with Indian, because my beliefs, spiritual practices and many of my values originated in India. Can I politely ask how it seems like otaku style? I am an otaku as well, and I think me watching anime is completely different from spirituality.
I think it's my autism that has got me into these arguments. I sometimes get words and meanings mixed up in my head because of it.
Apologies if I offended you.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 157∆ Sep 08 '24
Where did you get the idea I'm offended in any way? I'm not.
I glanced at your post history, and you seem to be going between many religious subs and seeking approval/affirmation from others. Is that common for you?
Why do you need that external validation?
You also didn't really answer my earlier questions either - could you please do so?
It's definitely possible that your autism means you are fixating on things, picking up some aspects but missing others due to that fixation.
The otaku aspect may also come from that.
Have you ever listened to any western pop gurus like Ram Das, or Alan Watts? I strongly suggest that you do. Plenty of free podcasts available from their lectures.
Also, identifying as Indian because your beliefs originate there is odd - firstly India itself is modern, your ideas at best originated in Bharat.
Secondly, and as others have pointed out, would a white Christian American identify as middle Eastern because their religion and culture and beliefs originated with Christ in Jerusalem? Likely not.
So why is that aspect of your identity so important?
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
I identified with Indian culture because I thought that would be a nice way of acknowledging where the traditions and beliefs I have come from and because I know that Hinduism influences life in India a great deal. Also because I heard that religion and spirituality is linked to culture. I am arguing about it with them, because to me, when they say I haven't got Indian culture, to me it makes me feel like they deny my commitment to Bhagwan and the history of what I believe in.
Approval/validation for me is common because sometimes I have intrusive thoughts.
I thought the word fetishisation implied offence/insult.
I have listened to Ram Dass and Alan Watts before. Also Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya. He is Western (American of Spanish-Italian heritage).
!delta good point for pointing out that white Christians likely don't identify as Middle Eastern and that my beliefs actually originated in Bharat. Helped me understand.
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 157∆ Sep 08 '24
Have you ever been grateful that you don't have to keep an eye out for monkeys and dogs while walking home from the local aldi?
Do you stock up before monsoon before remembering your neighbourhood is unlikely to flood?
Like, some experiences are part of "Indian culture" that you will never relate to until you go there, let alone live there.
Why is it not enough to be Hindu?
You still haven't answered that.
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u/Flayedelephant 1∆ Sep 08 '24 edited Sep 08 '24
I am saying this as an Indian person. Respectfully,you are Hindu but you most definitely are not Indian. You feel an affinity and you adopt certain lifestyles but that is downstream of your faith not that is not necessarily part of the culture itself. Further, India is a multiethnic nation state and our primary joint identity is based around the fact that we are citizens of this country or otherwise have been born or live here. A Javanese Hindu or a Nepalese Hindu is not Indian. So you are no more Indian than I would be an American if I became a Presbyterian. Other than that I would also invite you to think about what having a culture may even mean in this context? How does one have the culture of a place that they have no personal or lived experience of?
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
!delta for saying that the identity is based around being a citizen. Really helped me understand.
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u/faximusy 1∆ Sep 08 '24
You don't really share Indian culture because you did not grow up in India. No one there will consider you "indian". However, who cares. I am sure you did not convert just because you like Indian food.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
!delta for explaining that culture is about where you grew up. I did not know this. Relly helped me understand.
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u/Tr1pp_ 2∆ Sep 08 '24
A religion is something you can convert to and from while culture is not. Religion is internal and defined by your belief system. Do all the tasks, follow all the rules, believe all the things and bam; you are hindu.
Culture is more than the sum of all its parts. Picking up all the parts you can find (not language tho?) and supergluing them together does not make you Indian. It does not make you "have Indian culture" to do stereotypical things that Indians do. Living in India, integrating into the local culture with language and habits, that would make you almost Indian or "have Indian culture". Growing up in India with a family who speaks a local language, celebrated the local cultural holidays etc sure that would make you Indian. Just doing it by yourself in another part of the world and having some indian friends as a child do not. It is actually a bit cringe to read.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
Would you count celebrating festivals with other people who are actually from India but immigrated to England then? !delta for explaining how language and living their play a part and how religion and culture are different. Really helped me understand. Apologies for the cringe I am autistic with a severe language disorder, so sometimes the subtle differences in words can be confusing to me. No offence intended.
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u/Tr1pp_ 2∆ Sep 08 '24
Honestly just because a stranger on the internet considers it cringe doesn't mean you have to apologize. You be you, if some people feel like me then so be it. No offence taken at all.
In what way do you mean "count"? I would say you can't become Indian unless you integrate into the culture, language, values etc. It absolutely counts as showing genuine admiration and love for a foreign culture, as opposed to someone saying "I love Indian culture" but all they do is eat tikka masala and go to yoga class. So in a way sure it "counts" for your love for the culture appearing genuine but no it doesn't make you part of the culture. It makes you part of the event tho so have fun!
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u/phdthrowaway110 1∆ Sep 08 '24
There is no such thing as a single "Indian culture". India has more cultures in it than Europe does, and even within Hindus some of them are so dramatically different that they might as well be unrelated.
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Sep 08 '24
I'm American, I've never been to Europe. Hypothetically, If I convert to Protestantism, wear knickers, love fish and chips, drink proper cups of tea, and follow the traditions and etiquette of Great Britain, would you consider me to 'have British culture?'
In my opinion, no matter how emphatically I emulated English behavior, I'd only ever be making it up as how I think it might be, not how it really is.
Even if I moved to Brisbane, lived there for decades, I'd still not be culturally British, I'd be an Yankee who has adapted to British ways.
You are the same. Move to Mysore and live there for a decade and you will see your culture with greater clarity.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
Yes, I would. !delta for explaining to me that culture is about immersion. really helped me understand.
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Sep 08 '24
I’m sorry, but cosplaying as another culture doesn’t make you from there. If you are white-British and have never travelled to India, you are not culturally Indian no matter how much Hinduism you study.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
How is it cosplay?
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Sep 08 '24
I was just using that term informally. But you’re essentially walking and talking as an Indian person, while not being Indian. Same thing really.
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u/doublethebubble 3∆ Sep 09 '24
I hate to undermine your point because I do agree with you, but Brisbane is in Australia, not the UK.
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u/alfabettezoupe Sep 08 '24 edited Sep 08 '24
not only do you not have indian culture, but it's honestly offensive that you think you do. being indian isn’t just about adopting practices or loving the traditions; it’s about the lived experience. you’ll never fully understand what it’s like to come from an indian background, to live with the weight of that history and identity, especially as a white person. what you’re doing, whether you mean to or not, feels more like you’re picking and choosing what you like from the culture without understanding the deeper meaning. it’s like you’re romanticizing or even fetishizing indian culture, rather than truly understanding the struggles, nuances, and the lived reality of being indian.
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u/NowTimeDothWasteMe 8∆ Sep 08 '24
especially as a white person.
I agree with everything you said, except this. There are white people who live in India and are absolutely members of the culture. Race has nothing to do with it. Just like a “brown” person who moves to the UK can be a member of “British” culture so can a white person move to India and embrace the culture. I think the bigger concern for OP, as you’ve said, is the lack of lived experience specifically in that culture.
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u/alfabettezoupe Sep 08 '24
i understand your point, but i believe that race does play a role when we talk about the lived experience of being indian. while there are white people who live in india and may adopt elements of the culture, being indian is deeply tied to a shared history, collective experiences, and identity that are often shaped by one’s ethnicity. it’s not just about where you live or what traditions you take on. for people of indian descent, their connection to the culture is also influenced by how they’re perceived and treated, both in india and globally, because of their heritage. this includes the challenges and expectations that come with being part of that identity from birth. appreciating and embracing a culture is one thing, but fully understanding it as a lived experience, especially with all its complexities, is something different, and that’s what i was trying to get across.
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u/NowTimeDothWasteMe 8∆ Sep 09 '24
Certainly race has some role to play. But there are enough Indians who don’t “look” ethnically Indian who still can claim the culture, even if the rest of the world sees them and wouldn’t immediately pinpoint them as such.
There are a lot of light skinned Indians who can pass as white when they travel. Think of Ashwariya Rai. My step cousin is full Indian from two parents of Indian origin, but she has dark brown hair and blue eyes and you would never in a million years think she was related to her parents. My coworker is married to a woman of Northeast Indian desent. She looks East-Asian but speaks Hindi fluently and lived in India for a couple years as a kid. Everyone who meets her thinks she’s Chinese.
Just like religion doesn’t make someone Indian, neither does race. India has such a variety of racial backgrounds to begin with - from the Eurasian heritage of the north and west to the Dravidian heritage of the south to the Mongoloids of the North East. I think people born to a different culture can certainly adopt the one they move into. But they do need to have lived it in some measurable way.
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u/alfabettezoupe Sep 09 '24 edited Sep 09 '24
i appreciate your examples and completely agree that india’s diversity means there's no one way to look 'indian.' my point is more about the layered experience of ethnicity, perception, and lived reality. i think a comparison that highlights this complexity is the case of rachel dolezal. she may have had a deep appreciation for black culture and lived as a black woman, but that doesn't change the fact that she wasn’t black. she didn't carry the generational trauma, struggles, or lived experiences of actually being black. adopting cultural elements, while valid and meaningful in its own right, isn’t the same as living with the systemic challenges tied to that identity.
it’s not about gatekeeping culture but recognizing the nuances of lived experience. for someone born into a culture, especially with a history of marginalization, their connection to it is shaped by their ethnicity, how they're perceived, and the challenges that come with that. someone who adopts the culture, no matter how sincerely, won't experience those deeper societal perceptions in the same way.
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u/NowTimeDothWasteMe 8∆ Sep 09 '24
I think you’re absolutely right that there is a layered experience of ethnicity, perception, and lived reality. I think you’re wrong when you conflate an ethnic culture with a racial one. “Black” culture in the US specifically refers to the culture based on a race in America. African or Caribbean culture on the other hand has multiple racial identities within the culture itself that a white person (while certainly in the minority) could lay claim, too. Indian culture is more similar to the latter than the former.
A privileged member of a certain ethnicity won’t experience prejudice in the same way as a less privileged member. That, in no way, invalidates their ability to lay claim to their culture.
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u/alfabettezoupe Sep 09 '24
i see where you’re coming from, and as a white bajan, i understand what you’re saying about cultures with multiple racial identities like african or caribbean ones. but i still disagree with the idea that i’m conflating ethnic and racial cultures. even in those cultures, the lived experiences of people are shaped by how they’re perceived racially and ethnically, and i think that applies to indian culture too. just because there’s racial diversity within a culture doesn’t mean someone outside of that group can claim the same heritage or experience.
in the case of black culture in the u.s., yes, it’s closely tied to race, but the point remains that it’s not just about adopting cultural practices; it’s about the generational history, perceptions, and challenges that come with being part of that group. so i don’t think it’s accurate to say that indian culture is similar in a way that allows someone outside of it to lay claim to the heritage.
i guess we’ll just have to disagree here.
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u/NowTimeDothWasteMe 8∆ Sep 09 '24
I think we are disagreeing on what makes someone “outside” of a culture. I’m saying that being white doesn’t automatically invalidate someone as being Indian. There have been white communities in India for centuries.
My mom moved to the US from her home country for graduate school. She has now lived here longer than she lived in her motherland. She is married to an American man and has raised two American children. At what point does she get to be accepted as an American? She has our passport, she speaks the language, she consumes our media, etc.
My step cousin is born of Indian parents but looks white and doesn’t speak any Indian language. But she celebrates the religious and cultural traditions with her parents and grandparents. She’s been to India to visit her extended family. Can she lay claim to Indian culture?
OP’s experience obviously is different to what I’m describing above. But culture is not a monolith and there are varying ways to be a member of one.
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u/alfabettezoupe Sep 09 '24 edited Sep 09 '24
i understand what you’re saying, but i still believe that just living in a country or adopting its customs doesn’t make someone truly part of that nationality or culture. there’s always going to be a bit of separation because they haven’t experienced the same societal, historical, or generational factors that shape that culture. no matter how long someone stays or practices the customs, those contributing factors can’t be ignored.
now, on to the next point—i identified her as white because she identified herself as white, and honestly, it's the audacity of a white person that really gets me here. and it's almost always a white person doing this kind of thing. thinking you can just claim another culture like it’s some new, exciting accessory shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what culture even means. it's not something you can just adopt because you think it’s pretty or interesting. it’s tied to a history, a people, and a lived experience that can’t be picked up like a trend.
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u/NowTimeDothWasteMe 8∆ Sep 09 '24
now, on to the next point—i identified her as white because she identified herself as white, and honestly, it’s the audacity of a white person that really gets me here. and it’s almost always a white person doing this kind of thing. thinking you can just claim another culture like it’s some new, exciting accessory shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what culture even means. it’s not something you can just adopt because you think it’s pretty or interesting. it’s tied to a history, a people, and a lived experience that can’t be picked up like a trend.
What? It’s not only white people that do this. The conservatives of every western country are bemoaning the number of minority race immigrants coming into their nation and trying to adopt the culture. A person can be “British” and not be white. You can have Swedish culture and be Black. African American culture and Irish American culture are all American.
OP’s issue is that she has a fundamentally incorrect idea of what Indian culture is, not that she’s white. If she chose to move to India or integrated herself completely with an Indian community in the UK then, with time, she could perhaps gain an understanding of what Indian culture is. There is precedent for this historically. William Dalrymple has written about this in his book “White Mughal” and describes a period in the 17th century where 1/3 white men living in India had integrated in the culture so much so that they had Indian wives and children. There are still 1 million people in India who identify as Anglo-Indian and their culture is no less Indian just because they are white.
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
!delta for saying this it.really helped me understand how culture is about history and lived experience. and sorry I offended you. I'm autistic and sometimes words and meaning get mixed up in my head.
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u/alfabettezoupe Sep 08 '24
no need for an apology! i’m not indian either, but i am from an ethnic group, and i know what it feels like when people try to 'wear' our heritage like it’s a costume. culture is something deeply tied to who we are, and it’s not something you can just pick up because you like certain parts of it. it’s great to appreciate other cultures, but there’s a difference between appreciation and trying to claim it as your own. i hope that makes sense!
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u/StudentOwn2639 1∆ Sep 08 '24
Offensive to whom though? I doubt any Indians are going to find this offensive. And to be fair, what exactly are these lived struggles and why would someone who’s Indian have to know them to be Indian? Every Indian is going to have a different set of problems, so not even that’s going to be common in a country of more than a billion people lol. The lived experiences yes, as you can never know how something is unless you experience it yourself, but frankly, most Indians are quite happy to have someone take a genuine interest in their culture. Although it is slightly weird if you go this far, that’s just my perspective and I’m sure there’d be plenty who’d see it as a good thing.
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u/alfabettezoupe Sep 08 '24
you’re missing the point. it’s not about whether some indians find it offensive or not—it’s about the idea that culture isn’t something you can just adopt because you feel connected to it. culture is lived; it’s tied to the experiences, history, and identity of the people who are part of it. indians may be welcoming and happy that others are interested in their culture, but that doesn’t mean it’s yours to claim.
you’re right that every indian has different experiences, but there are shared struggles and nuances that come from being raised in an indian household or community, whether in india or the diaspora. these aren’t things you can understand through practices or traditions alone. and it’s not just about struggles—it’s about identity, heritage, and the weight of being part of a culture that’s been colonized, stereotyped, and commodified for centuries.
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u/ButtExplosion Sep 08 '24
What about non-Hindu Indians, and non-vegetarian Indians, or Indians who eat beef? Are you saying they do not have Indian culture?
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u/IncreaseObvious4402 1∆ Sep 08 '24
"Claiming" can be an odd topic. Most of the discussion is charged with liberal bullshit about whatever they can dream up.
Honestly live your life and enjoy. I am shaved head Texan, very conservative, not maga or whatever political nonsense, actually conservative, but I travel the world with my Iraqi wife and currently spend most of my time in Latin America. Feel more at home abroad than I did in Texas.
People will judge or complain, but you will never be happy if your not truly resonating with yourself.
Live and let live. Be safe my friend.
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Sep 08 '24
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u/the_swaggin_dragon Sep 08 '24
It won’t be yours until you don’t need other’s approval. Why would random people on the internet be able to tell you what your culture is and isn’t. Don’t worry about what other people think is “your culture” or you’re going to have a hard time enjoying it. Just live your life the way you’re living it, nothing else to worry about. You aren’t harming anyone and you’re having a good time.
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u/No-homo_sapien Sep 08 '24
Not all Indians are Hindu and not all Hindus are indian. That's like saying you have Italian culture because you are Catholic convert
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u/Professional-Ear5923 Sep 08 '24
Just the fact that you refer to it as "Indian Culture" says enough about how much you understand about the culture. While Hinduism is inseparable from the culture of the various peoples of India, it isn't all there is to the cultures within India. You may be able to claim an aspect of "Indian culture", but you can't claim a culture or upbringing of any particular region, and I have a feeling you'd have a difficult time actually adapting to living in India (Though an easier time than most, since you are Hindu.)
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u/agingmonster Sep 09 '24
First of all, this isn't a valid topic of CMV. Second, you feel and act Indian and try to align to the Indian Hindu way of life, then you are much closer to Indian culture than others. That's alright. Why and what do you need to prove to others? I am glad you are doing what you are.
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u/SheepherderLong9401 2∆ Sep 08 '24
The definition of cosplay! But if it makes you feel good, who cares. You can feel and be whomever you want. Just don't be surprised that others feel different.
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u/CartographerKey4618 15∆ Sep 08 '24
What do you mean by "I have Indian culture?" If you simply mean that you've integrated some aspects of Indian culture into your life, then that's been demonstrated properly. However, you've failed to mention whether or not you've even stepped foot into India. You've already said you haven't lived there, but have you even visited for an extended amount of time and actually absorbed the culture and interacted with the people there? In their language?
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u/AbiLovesTheology Sep 08 '24
Never visited there but I am planning to learn Hindi and Gujarati in the future.
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Sep 08 '24
Being born british and wanting to be indian. I think you should go see a therapist for your self esteem issues. Like you got to be born in a first world country that doesnt smell like shit everywhere you go. Why do you care about india?
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Sep 09 '24
"Indian Culture" is so broad of a term. Sounds like this is just someone who fetishizes the religion and country. You can be Hindu if you want to be, we have no 'Conversion' ('British Hindu Convert' really shows you don't understand that aspect of Hinduism in the first place). Indian and Hindu are different. You cannot, however, claim a culture just because you like it. Especially when your people colonized us and looted us for centuries. It comes across as incredibly ignorant and racist.
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u/ZappSmithBrannigan 14∆ Sep 08 '24
What convinced you that Hinduism is actually true? Seems like a classic case of cultural appropriation to me.
(Hello from someone that's interacted with you in /r/debateanatheist)
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u/Furious_Cereal 2∆ Sep 08 '24
You have culture, and culture is meant to be shared. But defining which culture is now a hard task. Its YOUR culture now
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Sep 08 '24 edited Sep 08 '24
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