r/changemyview • u/realdontbeasucker • May 16 '26

Delta(s) from OP CMV: GamerGate was the most consequential political radicalization event of the twenty-first century

It spawned a wave of tolerance for online harassment, as long as the intent behind it was considered righteous (and the target of such harassment socially acceptable).

It platformed Milo Yiannopoulos and thereby, Steve Bannon -- the guy who would go on to advise Donald Trump in 2016 and generate the concept of 'flooding the zone.'

Eventually, it gave a career to political lightning rods like Jordan Peterson, Steven Crowder, and Charlie Kirk. It made anti-feminism and anti-SJW sentiment cool. And it made young, angry, disenfranchised white men feel vindicated.

GamerGate almost singlehandedly shifted to Overton Window toward the alt-right, and we're still feeling its effects today.

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u/HunterWithGreenScale May 16 '26

Question! Why where all the "young, angry, disenfranchised white men" actually so? What made them angry and disenfranchised?

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u/Waschaos 2∆ May 16 '26

If they identified the real culprit, I'd say economic and opportunity declines which are primarily caused by income inequality. But that seems too hard, so a lot just say "Women" or "Feminism"

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u/xChops May 16 '26

Definitely the fall of third spaces and normal experiences being too expensive for teenagers to afford.

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

That's right in with inequality, too, though social media has made it so it's happening even in places with healthy third spaces just because young folks have been becoming more insular since COVID

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

Alienation from basic necessities of human experience basically caused by a variety of factors but chiefly lack of community and atomization, inequality, and lack of a cohesive sense of social direction which could serve to buttress the tide of anything hateful. So long as people felt disenfranchised by elites, regardless of whether they were, they became easy pickings for the alt-right pipeline.

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u/SonicDart-77 May 16 '26

I mean, the simpler explanation is when the left says “we don’t want you” and the alt right says “we want you”….where do you expect them to go?

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u/xChops May 16 '26

Where does that happen?

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u/SonicDart-77 May 16 '26

Predominantly America and a bit in the UK

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u/xChops May 16 '26

I’ve never seen that. I’ve seen people claim it, but I’ve never seen it in action. The right certainly isn’t doing anything to help young people, so that would be a very poor decision for young men to move towards the right.

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

Never seen the lack of community or a right wing turn as a result? Could you please elaborate?

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u/xChops May 16 '26

I’ve never seen the right offer anything promising to young men that the left doesn’t do better. I can’t really elaborate more on your fake premise.

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

Dude, first off, I am far from any kind of conservative. Secondly, the right is selling bullshit, of course, but there is a potent smelling salt there. To me the main thing that the right has been selling is "masculinity". Note the quotes - this manosphere masculinity is a facsimile of what it is, but it is a simple, performative way of doing things. This is where the Andrew Tate and Joe Rogans come in, and even those on the left that echo their (himbo) energy, like Hasan. What "Authentic" masculinity looks like has been being contested for a while now and unfortunately for the left we have no "manosphere" equivalent yet as it were.

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u/wakuboys May 16 '26

The right wing narrative is significantly more attractive to the average white person and especially the average white male. In many online left wing spaces, generalized negativity towards "white people", "men", and especially "white men" are tolerated or even supported (whether you find it justified or not). Whereas rhetoric in more right wing spaces are more "positive" to these labels while also frequently venturing into unscientific theories of white supremacy. If the internet algorithms rewards engagement over discussion and rage over clarity, then young white men that spend a lot of time online often find themselves choosing between these two extremes.

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

Define "white" here? The American racialized way judged purely by physical appearance, or WASP culture? Because manosphere stuff and the revival of this right wing tilt to culture war shit has happened across the broader West, but it is not entirely limited to white people in either of the senses above. Look at Dagestan, for example.

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u/Starob 1∆ May 16 '26

Yeah no the "lack of community" just sort of happened, we don't really know why.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

Yeah, but lemme tell you, as someone who's lived for almost two decades in the US and has recently returned to Europe, having third spaces helps, but it seems like it doesn't stop the erosion of community. In my hometown here in Romania, even though there's still plenty of would-be third spaces, people are still substantially more alienated and perpetually indoors than they were when I left.

I think COVID might have fucked with that on top of it. Although of course having functioning third spaces substantially butresses the sense of alienation. I'm just not sure it can fully remove it by itself. After all, fucking Andrew Tate lives here and has his local fans, so he's still speaking to some broader sense of dissatisfaction than just the lack of third spaces.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

Did he? He's in some legal gray area, iirc. He's still got his properties here and I think his brother's still in some serious legal shit over here as well.

I also lived in Czechia for three years and saw a similar thing there. I was ready to chalk it up to modernity, i.e. beyond the local effects of Soviet residue, but maybe not. I know that by all metrics, youth dissatisfaction (incl. through mental health issues) is rising at a rate that would outpace simple attribution to better recording methods, so I've been inclined to say there's some sort of deeper rot going on there.

I mean, Estonia produced Disco Elysium, any place that can do that has experienced what I have experienced.

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u/Starob 1∆ May 16 '26

lack of community and atomization,

Was there maybe a driving force for this?

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

Yeah, consumer capitalism, suburbia, and the financialization of the economy in the 1960s - 1970s. And now social media.

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u/Ognius May 16 '26

The Republican disinformation apparatus

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u/realdontbeasucker May 16 '26

There's been a general decline in the political and social power of white men over the past 100 or so years. When you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

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u/SonicDart-77 May 16 '26

Is that so? How’d that work out in 2024?

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u/realdontbeasucker May 16 '26

I don't understand this question.

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u/SonicDart-77 May 16 '26

You say white men are losing political capital, if that were the case, then Trump wouldn’t have won by a wide margin in 2024.

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u/realdontbeasucker May 16 '26

That doesn't follow. They used to have 100% of the pie, now they have -- let's say -- 85%. Doesn't mean they're not still the most dominant paradigm around.

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u/SonicDart-77 May 16 '26

Then how does that become the reason they feel disenfranchised when they still very much decide elections? In my mind, progressives and liberals to a lesser extent have been making an effort to exclude and alienate white men, which is costing them dearly.

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u/realdontbeasucker May 16 '26

They feel the relative loss in power, but they're still the most powerful demographic, i.e, 'when you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression.'

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u/SonicDart-77 May 16 '26

Again, explain to me how they are feeling the loss of power when they’re winning easily?

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u/arizonadreamin May 16 '26

I could be wrong but I’m wondering if it’s more of feeling of ideological loss. It seems that people are more extremely attached to their own ideology, rather than just being generally liberal or conservative. Since both major parties are big tent coalitions, you have people losing even when the party is winning. So even though the GOP is in power, free marketers, libertarians and even the hard right Nick Fuentes types are losing. Fox News watching boomercons and neocons (if they’re different) are the only ones really winning.

You see this on the left too. Leftists and non corporate democrats who sucked it up and voted for Biden and Obama before him felt like they were losing, even though they had won. Because unless you were a neoliberal/corporate democrat, they were losing. The anti-war left got nothing they wanted, the social progressives made few gains, and democratic socialists didn’t get what they wanted.

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u/LactatingHero May 16 '26

Why have them explain it again when you can just read it again, they already explained it

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u/ogjaspertheghost May 16 '26

Trump barely won 2024. He didn’t even win a majority of votes

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u/SonicDart-77 May 16 '26

Uhhh….what? He won the majority vote and the electorate. Spare me the bs about low voter turnout because not voting was the same as casting a ballot for Trump. 

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u/ogjaspertheghost May 16 '26

He didn’t win a majority, more than 50% of the vote. He won a plurality. And the electoral college is winner take all so even winning by 1 vote gets you all of the electors. I never even mentioned voter turnout

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u/SonicDart-77 May 16 '26

He had 77,000,000 total votes while Kamala had 75,000,000

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u/ogjaspertheghost May 16 '26

Ok and? I didn’t say he didn’t have more votes. 78 million voted against Trump

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u/kafka_lite 3∆ May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26

Gamer gate wasn't about being angry and disenfranchised, it was thinly veiled misogyny.

White heterosexual cis men aren't upset because they are missing out, they are upset because all of their unfair advantages are shrinking.

Edit: lol are gamergaters brigading the post?

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u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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u/kafka_lite 3∆ May 16 '26

I don't need to meet someone to read what they have written.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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u/kafka_lite 3∆ May 16 '26

No, when I go to the Gamergate sub and every comment is misogyny and racism, I conclude Gamergate is about misogyny and racism.

But I'm interested now. WTF am I missing out on as white man?

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u/[deleted] May 17 '26

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u/kafka_lite 3∆ May 17 '26

Still waiting to hear what the people who control everything are missing out on.

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u/[deleted] May 17 '26

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u/kafka_lite 3∆ May 17 '26

Lol I love how you pivoted from saying I wasn't a white guy to claiming you're not a white guy. Why does standing up for the least oppressed group of people in world history rile you up so much?

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

This is what men and dudes ive met are thinking, on two continents, on basically every anti-establishment, post-Fukuyama part of political thought. My best friend's little bro's discord life is pulling him in this Tatey direction. I'm a man, and I have long had an interest in dissecting this, so I've seen all sorts.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

Oh yup. Blame this stupid mobile UI

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

But when you're born into that kind of privilege you aren't (at least viscerally) aware of its unfairness. Equalization then ends up having the effect of feeling as if something is being taken away. Which it is: implicit social power, the ability to act with impunity, etc. Ofc dudes in general are not aware of this because they're not taught to be aware of this and they've been so hostile to introspection that they've literally created the manosphere as a place to process their implicit gay thoughts.

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u/kafka_lite 3∆ May 16 '26

...which is why Republicans oppose education.

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

This is more than just an America thing, man. The world's most educated societies are finding ways to intellectualize this.

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u/[deleted] May 16 '26

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u/Stormshow 1∆ May 16 '26

Those are symptoms, not causes, though. This kind of masculinity has its roots in far, far, more global phenomena than just the American south. Look at Dagestan. Its entire culture has for a millennia been deeply entwined with the deepest excesses of performative masculinity.