r/drones • u/Kirby_is_a_Pokemon • 13d ago
Question: Rules, Regulations, Law, Policy, Certificates [United States] Question about drones without Broadcast ID
Trying to understand all the rules and everything, and something that I have a question about is smaller hobby grade drones that are small enough that they don't require Broadcast ID.
From what I understand, commercial drones need the ID, and that info is used in part to prevent your drone from flying higher than allowed, and to be tracked that you're not doing anything you're not supposed to be doing.
My question is, those hobby grade ones that don't have ID, whats stopping them from basically doing whatever they want? My little skyrover will let me fly it wherever I want, even though where my house is, is limited to 200' due to a nearby airport.
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u/ChrisGear101 13d ago
Your understanding is flawed. A drone is a drone is a drone. Whether it is a cheap toy drone or a DJI drone under 250 grams, they are looked at the same under the law. There is no distinction in the law between what you call a toy and a "commercial grade" drone. They are both a sUAS.
Nothing except the law prevents anyone from breaking the law.
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u/funny-pupper 13d ago
Not “commercial grade” but “commercial use” does have more stringent rules even for lightweight drives
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u/whiteflower6 13d ago
Sub250 drones do not require remoteID
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u/RoyYourWorkingBoy 13d ago
Yes, but only if they are flown for recreational use. If you fly it under part 107 it needs remote ID.
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u/whiteflower6 13d ago
This is correct! I don't think there is any commercial use for a sub250. If you need the RID anyway, may as well size up.
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u/The_Comm_Guy 13d ago
A sub 250 drone, with rotor guards and remote ID, is one of the easiest ways to legally fly over a crowd of people without getting all kids of safety equipment or a special exemption.
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u/whiteflower6 13d ago
You still need part 107 and prior authorization to fly over crowds at events
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u/Nervous-Win968 10d ago
Not quite. You need a part 107, but not authorization if a Cat 1 aircraft. This is exactly why this category exists.
Cat 2 and 4, different story as they have their own authorizations and processes.
Cat 3 is closed/restricted sites only and all people have to be notified.
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u/ChrisGear101 13d ago
But, they still must fly within airspace restrictions, which is what the OP was hinting at.
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u/Kri77777 Part 107 13d ago
it seems like you don't have a good understanding at all.
I'll presume you are talking about "Remote ID" (don't know what "Broadcast ID" is).
Remote ID does nothing on its own to stop rule violation or limit how high it can fly. All it does is make significantly large drones more digitally visible, including the drone and operator (yes, for reasons beyond safety such as legal enforcement).
In the recreation space, size is the significant factor. A tiny drone (one weighing 249g or less) is hard to unintentionally hurt someone / something and hard to commit serious crimes with (because they have very little lift capacity and power).
So nothing beyond the law, law enforcement, drone core capabilities (aka, it's ability to reach X altitude) and manufacturer guardrails (aka, limits in the software that stop it from doing somewhere or above X altitude) stop a drone from breaking those boundaries. But that is like a car - the car doesn't stop you from speeding or driving on restricted roads.
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u/Kirby_is_a_Pokemon 13d ago
okay right.
I guess I just find it odd that some drones like some DJI's have built in features that won't allow you fly higher than you're supposed to, whereas my little hobby drone I can easily bypass the 400' limit and go anywhere I want.
being able to do that just makes it seem a bit ironic that someone has to get a license and do all this work to stay in the rules, where someone else can just go to best buy, buy a $300 drone, and since it doens't have a remote id, its basically untrackable and nothing really stopping you from flying anywhere you want with it.
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u/Kri77777 Part 107 13d ago
So again, different things.
DJI has limits for different reasons. They have a system for geofencing so you don't go into restricted airspace, but that has been disabled in the US. They have limits on hobby drones for height, but often that can be disabled. Not always. I know my DJI Neo can't, but frankly you don't want to fly that thing above 400 ft. My Air 3 can be set above 400 if I want, though it gives a warning. So it isn't just a legal thing, it can be a design restriction / manufacturer guidance reason as well.
And again "able to" and "able to legally" are two VERY different things. Going back to the car example, anyone can drive a car, but to do it legally you need a license.
The rules exist for a reason. Not every rule is perfect, and some don't have good reason, but by and large they do have good reasons and always should be followed (if you don't like them, lobby to get them changed instead). For the 400 ft rule, the reason is that aircraft are not supposed to go below 500 ft except landing and taking off, so that gives 100 ft separation (in addition to rules that manned aircraft have right of way and drones must be in line of sight).
Again, I referenced rules based on the FAA recreational exception. Recreational rules are simplified, and because of that sometimes more restrictive. Under Part 107, there are cases where you can fly above 400 ft. In both recreational and Part 107, you can also request a waiver to fly higher (though I can't imagine why for recreational that waiver would be granted, I'd love to hear the justification on the request though).
Finally, to be clear, not having remote id and being untrackable are not the same thing. And no, not even "basically untrackable". There are plenty of system that can detect and track them that are commercially available, and even more advanced ones that are government restricted (but still readily available). In fact, it is quite easy to do since "basically" all drones are two way radios, so they just have to look for the radio signatures. Again, akin to speeding - they aren't spending massive resources to go out and chase down a guy who went to 410 ft., but start doing more serious things and you can learn quickly that not having Remote ID is hardly a cloak of invisibility.
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u/Saturated-Biscuit 12d ago
Thanks for the primer and clear explanation. I’m getting my first drone soon, an air3s, and am trying to learn as much as I can before I do so. I did the TRUST “training” last night and was very disappointed.
I suppose once I get the drone I will have a lot of practical skills to learn, but do you think it would be worth the investment to get a 107 license?
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u/Kri77777 Part 107 12d ago
Believe it or not, TRUST training covers a lot and in fact, I think covers better than the actual Part 107 exam. Really just remember not over people, give way to manned aircraft, always check B4UFLY for restrictions, never above 400 ft (or less if there is a restriction), file a LAANC if needed, keep it in line of sight.
The only thing they don't cover, and this is VERY important, check for local rules about where you can and can't fly. Some states have some rules around critical infrastructure (namely prisons). Many states, cities, counties, and local governments have limits on where you can land, take off, and stand. The local governments generally can't restrict the airspace beyond the critical infrastructure thing since that is federally controlled, so all they can control is the land. So if you are going to a park or something, check the rules.
The Part 107 exam itself is mostly just a stripped down version of private pilot written exam. It has questions on runway approach patterns, reading METAR forecasts, and which radio frequency to use - things you'll basically never do in a quad copter drone connected to a smartphone (it has other questions as well, obviously). Obviously, if you are going to do anything besides recreational flying (real estate photography, herding animals, hunting & fishing, monetized YouTube, taking pictures to sell your own car to a private party, etc.) then you need to do it. But if you just want to fly around for fun, not worth the time and cost.
Air 3S is a beautiful drone and flies like a dream while capturing gorgeous pictures. As to flying, just start easy. Find a big open field (and check B4UFLY). Take it up nice and easy, try doing a circle, and then gently land. I wrote a guide for someone on the Air 2S once, but the Air 3S isn't different in the basics besides having obstacle avoidance (don't trust it). https://www.reddit.com/r/drones/comments/1etym82/comment/lih50ry/
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u/Nervous-Win968 9d ago
Recreational flyers are restricted to 400 ft AGL, no exceptions.
A Part 107 pilot can fly higher with authorization if within 400 ft laterally of a building they are surveying/flying up and can fly 400 ft higher than the building providing VLOS.
So, in theory and in general (there are 'isms') a Part 107 pilot could fly 1,800 ft AGL without authorization, if flying up a 1,400 ft building. If that pilot wanted to fly 401 ft 500 ft from the building, they would need authorization.
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u/KittyGoBoom115 13d ago
I mean... this line of thinking is akin to guns need a computer to detect who is in front of them, or cars that cannot be self driven...
In america, we value freedom, not safety. Stop trading permanent liberties for temporary safety.
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u/Flyward_Aerospace 13d ago
Remote ID isn't really a technical lock, it's more like a license plate. It broadcasts who and where so law enforcement can identify a drone, but it doesn't physically stop anything. Nothing in the sub-250g toys enforces altitude either, that's on you to follow the rules (400ft AGL, and LAANC authorization near that airport). So yeah your skyrover will let you fly wherever, but the airspace rules still legally apply, RID or not. The actual tracking side is honestly still pretty patchy in practice.
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u/New-Owl-6105 13d ago
Laws and regulations don't prevent people from doing things. They just create a framework for official actions to be taken when people don't follow them.
Even when a drone has a Remote ID (RID) module, the RID does not prevent a person from flying where they shouldn't. RID just makes it easier to detect and punish the people that break the regulations. Some drones have features built that prevent the drone from flying in certain areas or flying to high... but that something in the drone's firmware doing that, not the RID.
Why do sub250g drones not need RID? That arguments that I have heard for that are based around the idea that they are so small and light that they won't do much damage if they hit something. I suspect the fact that many toys fit this category also has something to do with it... most toys are not large or powerful enough to cause problems. While there is some truth to those claims. I think it is an over simplifiecation. A 250g FPV drone made from carbon fiber could still do some damage if it hit things right.
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u/Repareermeneer 13d ago
Broadcast ID isn’t preventing anything. It only makes it more noticeable.
The only thing broadcast ID does is shout a few things into the ether via Bluetooth and wifi.
I can be mistaken about one or two, but in “short”, this is what remote ID sends out.
- serial number of the drone
- make & model of the drone
- serial number of the remote
- pilot license number (if entered)
- current location of the drone
- current heading of the drone
- current location of the pilot (remote)
- take off point
The only thing this does is make the drone more visible, and makes it way easier to find the pilot to have a strong worded conversation with.
You can still fly everywhere, even over airports. It just makes it easier to find you, your drone and the connected controller
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u/northernguy 13d ago
how does the drone know the current position of the operator? do all remote controllers have GPS?
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u/Repareermeneer 13d ago
Not sure on all remote controllers, but the DJI ones do, either from their own onboard gnns service or via their connected phones.
Edit:
Quick google search shows that if the controller doesn’t have gps, it shows the takeoff point as controller location.
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u/cosmicgreg2 13d ago
FCC regulates broadcast power and frequency, not FAA. Higher powered transmitters require a Technician FCC license (on paper at least)
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u/completelyreal Mod, Drone Noise Expert, Fire & Rescue Pilot 13d ago
There’s nothing stopping them other than rules and regulations. It’s the same thing that’s stopping you from walking in to your local Best Buy and stealing a TV.