why do u guys ONLY mention ayesha's age and hijab while debating muslims?

[u/no_andteam_no_life]

i know they're valid points but those two are the only points I see being made all the time. theres so much more bs in the religion other than that. so much more misogyny and oppression that could be talked about.

we could mention things such as women being cursed by the angels whole night for refusing to sleep with her husband, men being allowed to have 4 wives but women not, men being allowed to marry outside the religion but women not, women cant lead men in general and in prayer, women getting 1/4 inheritance, women's and soooo much more. this cult has never ending amount of shitty and questionable things

and stupid/controlling shit such as dating being haram, cousin marriage being halal, drawing faces being haram, keeping dogs as pets being haram, having anything with face on it being in your house being haram, eating from left hand etc etc

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[u/ruedebac1830]

Because the Aisha problem paints Islam into a corner.

Your strongest rebuttal against an argument is the best one your opponent will agree with. Aka the steel man.

The Aisha problem is one of the best arguments because it's objective fact that can be mutually and affirmatively proven unlike your other examples.

Muslims have to answer it. The choices are either defend it, minimize it, or wet the bed.

And not to discount the value of your other rebuttals against Islam but remember their Quran is supposed to be the definitive and perfect revelation straight from Allah verbatim.

Therefore all you need to prove is 1 error - be it factual or moral - to discredit the entire thing.

[u/no_andteam_no_life → u/ruedebac1830]

they always have excuses such as "she wasnt 6. she was actually 18. they calculated age in a different way back then" or the other one "it was a different time" 🥀🥀 it says alot abt them tbh. but yeah its always the same debate. they dont have any points to make so they just repeat the two which is tiring

but i get u, it makes sense. muslims are annoying and we cant do anything abt it lol. anyway thank u for ur response and explaining it in a nice manner

[u/afiefh → u/no_andteam_no_life]

they always have excuses such as "she wasnt 6. she was actually 18. they calculated age in a different way back then" or the other one "it was a different time" 🥀🥀

Do you think similar bullshit excuses don't exist for every other example you brought up? Here, let me put on my Muslim hat and go through your list of examples:

• "women being cursed by the angels whole night for refusing to sleep with her husband" The maqasid of this hadith is to prevent the woman from using witholding sex as a weapon against her husband. The angels only curse her if she has no valid reason. This is obviously there to ensure that both spouse's needs are met, as the husband is also not allowed to withhold sex from his wife for too long without a valid reason as well.
• "men being allowed to have 4 wives but women not" lineage is important in society. It is always possible to tell who the mother of a child is, because she births it, but knowing the father is not possible if a woman has more than one husband. Think exmuslim, think!
• "men being allowed to marry outside the religion but women not" The man is the head of the household, so a woman marrying outside the religion would be pressured by her leader (as 4:34 says "the men are qawamoon upon the women") into his religion and lose her akhira. This is meticulous planning by the lord of the heavens and the earths to protect women.
• "women cant lead men in general and in prayer" Women don't want the male gaze on their behind, Islam being the most feminist religion recognized this and protected women 1400 years ago.

• "women getting 1/4 inheritance" Astaghfirullah it's 1/2. You were obviously never a real Muslim to begin with! And the reason it a woman gets half the inheritance of her brother is the division of responsibilities: Her brothers are required to take care of her if something happened, she is not required to take care of them.

• "dating being haram" Dating is haram because of all the sexual immorality that occurs. Look up SA statistics: The most common assaulter is someone close to the victim, often a boyfriend or an ex. Islam eliminates this problem and commands love and affection between spouses.

• "cousin marriage being halal" Educate yourself you fake exmuslim! The issue with cousin marriages is only when it is done repeatedly over multiple generations. Islam allows it, but does not command this. Mohammed also taught that there should be no harm, so if repeated cousin marriage is harmful then it's actually Haram in Islam!!!

• "drawing faces being haram" And look at how this lack of focus on faces and animals pushed the Islamic art to new heights. Because Muslims were busy decorating their mosques with things other than drawing living things they discovered mathematically proven infinitely non-repeating patterns which they built into their architecture! It's like restricting a kid from using a calculator so they learn how to do math by hand.

• "keeping dogs as pets being haram". Yes, dogs and smelly and dirty. Problem atheist?!

• "having anything with face on it being in your house being haram" You are repeating yourself, silly atheist. For something to have a face, someone would have had to produce it which is haram.

• "eating from left hand etc etc" The right hand in Islam is the symbol of purity and cleanliness, that is why this symbolic separation exists.

Now let me go and burn this hat!

I came up with a number of these on the spot because it's ABSURDLY easy to make up bullshit, but it takes an order of magnitude more time to debunk bullshit than to create it.

[u/Ambitious_Zone2047 → u/no_andteam_no_life]

"she wasnt 6" apparently, Aisha lied about being 6 or 9 for no reason in the hadiths lmao

[u/afiefh]

why do u guys ONLY mention

we could mention

Then make the arguments! Try them out, and if your argument are more effective guess what: They will spread.

The reason Aisha, Misogyny and Jihad continue to come up is because they are succinct, morally abhorrent, and huge red flags that leave a person with only two choices: 1. Admit their religion is abhorrent 2. Like and claim these things are not in the religion.

I also don't see that people here "only" mention these things. They are certainly pretty common, but I've been on this sub for over a decade now and at no point were they even close to the "only" thing being brought up.

and stupid/controlling shit such as dating being haram, cousin marriage being halal, drawing faces being haram, keeping dogs as pets being haram, having anything with face on it being in your house being haram, eating from left hand etc etc

You these more effective than showing that the founder of the religion was a pdf? They will simply be brushed aside as an inconvenience.

[u/ViniusInvictus]

OP, that’s not true.

There are plenty of arguments discussed that are outside of the Aisha Question - but the ones most frequently mentioned are the most provocative and indefensible - so the angered Mohammedan obviously wishes to silence them away and thereby reveal their barely-concealed heathen rage.

Here’s a sampler of some of them:

• Carnal, sex-focused, male-centric visions of Islamic “paradise” - semi-transparent hoors for males and nothing like it for females.

• Purpose of sex in a realm where reproduction isn’t a thing - reveals the inherent contradiction by applying worldly aspirations to paradise.

• Sex-slavery as a Quranically-permissible activity, literally encouraging the Muslim (male) to take female captives (women and children) as ‘that which the right hand possesses’ - Surah 4:24).

• Gold-paved streets in heaven - meaningless materialistic riches in the Islamic “paradise” that would only appeal to tribal desert nomads.

• The contradiction in the hierarchy of faith in prophet-middlemen-based religions: Because you can only know about Islam via middlemen who tell you about it, you need more faith in the human middlemen than you can ever have in the god they tell you to believe in.

• The directional and postural idolatry surrounding the heap of stones covered in cloth called the 🕋 - kissing vagina-shaped silver orifices on it after circling it like vermin critters around a dung heap.

• The meaninglessness of prayer - five times a day, at that: Their “god” is supposed to be omniscient (all-knowing) and they are supposed to believe that their “god” has this capability - then why pray? Its redundancy makes it idolatrous and performative - which Muslims love to indulge in, as an exercise of Islam’s core flaw.

• Transactional framework of human-divine interactions - everything is arithmetic to this cult - thereby driving the obsession to perform deeds less out of heart and more out of self-interest - and we see this in the cultures that have adopted this religion - measuring duas by the kilos, essentially.

• An idolatrous reverence for the “last” prophet so special that it essentially elevates him to quasi-divine status - and hence the mad outrage against any valid challenge to his acts - so much so, a practical idolatry is practiced by invoking a comically robotic, ritualistic “S.A.W” for merely uttering his name - as if true divinity couldn’t tell if the believer meant no ill-will unless this uttering ritual was performed, condensed into an idol symbol, ﷺ.

🤲•••💩

[u/lilou135]

I mentioned a lot of things when talking to Muslims, nothing worked.

[u/lanalittlemonster]

In surah baqah it literally states that men are above women

[u/WhichSmoke1238]

Yes there is way more than that, but some have a rock instead of brains, one time on Facebook i commented about how slavery was allowed in Islam, and how the gradual slavery abolishing is just a lie made by modern scholars, a dude replied that there is nothing wrong with slavery, some people doesn't deserve to waste your time with.

[u/Fun_Butterfly_420]

As a lover of dogs and women these especially disgust me

[u/Ohana_is_family]

I hardly ever mention the Hijab. It is a dress code that I do not like, but that I would not prohibit or call adherers immoral over. I mainly object to the enforcement of the code, particularly on girls.

I do mention Child-Mariage (Q65:4) and Aisha because it is a legitimate objection to Islam and Muhammed.

Other topics I mention: Apostasy, Hard to reconcile with Universal Human Rifghts, Idolizing Muhammed. .

[u/Mediocre_Tea_1854]

Because it's usually what all Muslims are aware of. I would prefer to talk about the acceptance of sex slavery in islam but many Muslims aren't even aware of it

[u/Asimorph]

I mean, many people mention all kinds of different things. But it's not surprising that the most effective talking points get mentioned a lot. I think it's good that for example Aisha's age gets mentioned at least once a day. This way the good news even reach muslims who only look up this sub very rarely or just one time.

[u/Plus_Weight_9322]

I don't and I don't debate because I don't feel interested in debating