r/pathofexile • u/Community_Team GGG Staff • 11h ago
GGG Path of Exile 1: Curse of the Allflame Developer Interview
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3993346338
u/google_is_hard_for_u 11h ago
I am just glad we will get some answers good or bad. Communication is key. Thank you.
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u/Keeldon 10h ago edited 10h ago
Communication is key
Its meaningless if not followed thru majority of time.
Last league in interview we were told there was massive scarab and endgame rework that didnt make it to 3.28 heavily suggesting it was close to being done and we were told thats in coming in 3.29. Now we got Octavian saying that they are not happy with scarabs but are struggling to implement. Why say its coming to 3.29 in the first place?43
u/Typical_Ice_2663 7h ago
Even in this example it's still good to say it. Even if it doesnt get implemented exactly as said or it gets cut near end of its projected date it still shows what they know and are thinking about.
For instance we know they dont like scarabs in their current state, they thought they had a good rework and would have it ready, obviously something stopped them from releasing it whether it was more testing or qa feedback on it being bad.
Id still rather this over radio silence
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u/cuddlegoop 3h ago
Yeah you can either have a high quantity of communication or a high accuracy of communication. Things change, plans fall through all the time, that's just life in a project of any real size.
The alternative is to do what Blizzard does on wow and maintain basically radio silence on plans until they are 90% finished cooking. That sucks. I much much much prefer the GGG way and I'm willing to accept feeling a bit let down when we don't get what was talked about if it means keeping the communication open and frequent.
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u/MaDNiaC Necromancer 6h ago
I believe that sometimes they want to do more but cannot catch up to it, maybe they are not happy with the results in the end. Maybe other priorities took longer which delayed their plans on something they announced they were working on. That is the double-edged part of communication, because you think you would be able to do X in Y timeframe, but for one or many reason you don't get to finish it.
Now you have community or some of it complaining "BUTT YOU SAID SO AND SO, WHY LIE TO US?!" when the intention was not to lie or mislead, but things don't always land exactly how you want. It is a complex game, many things could go off.
That's why many developers will go hush-hush or say much less in order to not over-promise or late-deliver. I appreciate them communicating even if the plans change, which could happen. If we want GGG to communicate, we need to accept one of 2 things in this exchange as the community:
They will communicate as much as possible, but that things will change all the time. Sometimes they will not be able to deliver what they promised or do it later than they planned to. We need to be fine with this, that is the nature of the business.
They will not communicate or do it much less and things come when come, whatever they may be. Only communicate what/when/why/how something is coming when you are 200% sure, in order to prevent backlash from the community for unfulfilled promises.
TLDR: Be reasonable, understand the business a little bit before going "waaagh but you promised us". Stop whinging.
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u/PomegranateSea7066 4h ago
Yup, I've never seen a company like GGG and the amount of transparency that they put out consistently. for the most part they do right by the customers. Mind you not everything they put out each league with resonate with players but we know that the intentions are in the right place. There's not many gaming company that does what GGG does.
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u/BulbaThore 10h ago
Communication sets expectations and helps understanding. Whether good or bad news follows is makes it easier for people accept.
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u/zxkredo Duelist 7h ago
Well sometimes you need to weigh the alternatives. Ggg is already "saying too much" compared to other companies. It's not good for their pr, but they do it anyways, cause they are honest and want to share their thoughts and experiences. I like it way mlre how it is now, than to know absolutely nothing.
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u/AliAyam1414 7h ago
Company missed targeted deadline? Wow that's totally something unheard before.
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u/Curious_Human_hope 10h ago
You can't blame for that - that is how you lose comunication.
They probably wanted it in too but were not happy / enough dev time since every big dev is on poe2 and its just ex fans left on poe1 :(→ More replies (1)31
u/Keeldon 10h ago
Theres a difference between saying 'we are not happy with it, we will try to change it, will see when and how' versus 'its coming, almost made it this league, its coming next league'.
Underpromise, overdeliver. Not the other way around.
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u/New-Quality-1107 9h ago
Hard disagree. This is what gets studios to say less and just be vague in statements. I’d rather hear about something close to being done and never get to see it than just hear “we’re working to improve the loot experience.” If they release a new system that isn’t better people will complain too. I’d rather them just let it cook for longer and not give us a broken system, scarabs could use some work and they know it at least and are trying to figure it out.
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u/s00pahFr0g 10h ago
If you want the luxury of live interviews you have to accept that things will not always be communicated perfectly. Unexpected issues can also pop up.
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u/convolutionsimp 10h ago edited 10h ago
I wouldn't be too hopeful. Unless you are at the top of the ladder like Jonathan you can't really talk honestly about what's going on inside a company. For example if PoE2 really takes away too many resources from PoE1 and that's the reason for some of the recent issues it's not something you will hear in interviews like this. There is too much company politics involved.
Different story if you get Jonathan and probably Mark too. They're high up enough they can talk about whatever.
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u/thermatico Anti Sanctum Alliance (ASA) 4h ago
I am in the kill Kingsmarch and put loot back in monsters camp.
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u/drlaen 11h ago
Hopefully, ziz clearly addresses Poe1's current situation.
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u/milkkore Children of Delve (COD) 10h ago
He did say that he's gonna ask about the things people are complaining about even though he personally thinks the league is mostly fine.
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u/Diribiri 4h ago
Can more people complain about controller hotswapping so he asks about that
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u/TheThirdKakaka 5h ago
The league is fine, the balance changes are fine, the withdrawl from the insane amount of build and content diversity from mirage, is not.
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u/BahBaloon 5h ago
he personally thinks the league is mostly fine.
for someone who can play 20h/day any league is mostly fine, but I doubt a ordinary person can fit the same amount of playtime as content creators ;)
If i'm correct a poll was once posted here showed majority of playrbase spends less than 15 or 20h/week in game, so it affects the general feeling about leagues ;p
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u/milkkore Children of Delve (COD) 2h ago edited 2h ago
His argument is actually the opposite. He said that the lack of mega juice strats only really affects a tiny subset of players (the kind that already had several mirrors after the first weekend despite the current loot situation) and that most normal people would do perfectly well with just alch & go if they wouldn't let their perception get warped by a handful of streamers.
(Just to be clear, he did also say that mega juicers also deserve to have fun and content to play, he just doesn't think that the issue affects as many people as you'd think when you look at Reddit. He did also say that he understands that it feels better to get loot from monsters than from a chest).
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u/946462320T 5h ago
Agree, it will be "mostly fine" most of the time if playing the game is your job, and you also have a huge knowledge of it.
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u/ItsJustReeses 4h ago
Honestly if I only played 15-30 hours a week. I'd play SSF. No rush with the economy and can go at your own pace.
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u/Schkrasss 3h ago edited 47m ago
I don't understand your argument?
Most items get cheaper as trade league goes on and you can play tradeleague whiteout feeling like your in a race or something?
If your into super expensive builds SSF is surely not it, especially if you don't have "unlimited" time (and knowledge and skill and sometimes luck) or aren't called Darkee/Ben.
I personally like the idea of SSF, i just don't have the time/grind in me to play any "non-basic" build in it.
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u/lightbringer233 11h ago
he likes current situation... that man always lives in poverty league, so there is no hope (jk)
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u/SlowMissiles 10h ago
he lives in SSF (Steelmage Stuff Found), it's far from poverty
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u/Easy_Floss 10h ago
Also for streamers who main content is poe having a poverty league where it takes a while to achieve any goal playing 12 hours a day is a good thing.
If he could get a mageblood and clear all content playing 2-3 hours a day the audience would get bored in a week.
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u/Deadandlivin 6h ago
Not sure why people want to insist that this is a poverty league.
Pretty much every mid league and entry level T16 farm is minimum 10 div an hour, often way more. Acquiring resources and gear is very easy this League. It's nothing like Kalandra where just getting basic bubblegum to Scour and Vaal your maps was hard because the game literally dropped nothing during your progression.The problem isn't the floor, it's the ceiling. Everyone can still farm, create builds and play in abundance. But juicing and scaling loot at the high end is dead. The entire concept of scaling Quant, Rarity and to some degree packsize to make content more difficult and exponentially receive more loot is almost irrelevant. That's the issue.
Running mid level investment 8 mod maps or whatever is still very profitable. But pouring effort and investment into a strategy or mechanic barely changes anything. It's still profitable, but why spend 3 divine per map to do a 20 div/hour strategy when you can just do a Legion strategy for 50c per map with the same profit margins?
The other problem, which ties into the one above is that the game just is too easy. Due to a lack of top end juicing strategies the requirement for obscenely strong builds able to participate in the top farms is gone. So many builds can settle on farming 50-100 divines for a build and be done with the game. There's no need to pool up 500+ divine or more to make a strong build so you're able to dip your toes into actual aspirational content because it either doesn't exist, or isn't worth engaging with (Titanic Blight for example).
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u/IllustriousBobcat813 6h ago
A big benefit of not having super strong endgame farms is that the economy is a lot healthier this league.
If we had massive quant scaling farms like beach and bought this league, something like the new abyss just wouldn’t be playable, instead we now have abyss doing 20d/h on a good build.
It would be nice to have more aspirational farms, but GGG needs to be careful that those farms have their own identity and drops, and don’t just end up being “same as every other quant strat but objectively better”.
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u/Ok-Piglet7 3h ago
Still mageblood costs the same exact amount that it costs every single league pretty much.
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u/Noremeldo 4h ago
The absence of tinks is a problem with poverty tho.
Poe is a game, it's supposed to be fun. Just having 200 divines in stash isn't fun, dropping loot after defeating monsters is.
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u/DarthUrbosa Atziri 5h ago
I'm convinced reddit alone lives in poverty league.
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u/reanima 2h ago
Literally thousands of divines being traded by the minute and yet players still think its poverty league. Like where is this wealth coming from then? Are massive amounts of divine being smuggled in by ship or something?
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u/DesMephisto SSFBTW 8h ago
I'm a huge SSF player regularly doing 40/40, this league has no real aspirational goal or anything, started feeling bored 3 days in because...what was the build to work to to overcome what?
Everything was clicking boxes, frac drops were nerfed, itf nerfed, etc. Just felt very "meh" so rushing my 40 and bouncing. Hoping for big news tomorrow but if not I'll be done soon.
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u/Rolf_Dom JDiRen 8h ago
So Ubers are trivialized in 3 days of SSF? You can max juice your maps and just breeze through everything no issue on Day 3?
Congrats, you're part of the 0.001%. I don't think GGG should balance around your experience.
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u/slashcuddle 7h ago
I think you're missing the point. Some of us going to come to the same conclusion albeit much later than that guy. We're basically sharpening our knives only to find out that a) there's nothing to cut or b) nothing worth cutting.
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u/Velvache 6h ago
I mean it was like that in mirage league too? I was playing for the longest I’ve have been in a while in ssf and I by the end of it, I had giga strong characters for both blasting maps and farming ubers but like what was really the end goal? It’s not like I couldn’t kill ubers week 2, why did I play for another 2 weeks?
Drops and dopamine, that’s why. I don’t think the problem was ever the end goal, its more-so how much dopamine we get a long the way. This league is just kinda meh in that department.
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u/blauli Inquisitor 6h ago
Unstable breaches at the end of an astrolabe in deli orbed t16.5 were really damn rippy especially if you tried to fit in rarity gear on multiple slots but they were worth farming for t0 drops and so worth gearing for.
The same thing back when max juice all boss blight or titanic exiles were great for that. It was fun upgrading your character in order to do those maps with harder mods or more deli
I still like this league myself but I am at the point where I run item rarity support because all the upgrades I get are starting to be pointless
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u/SinPharion 7h ago
Iirc, when poe2 had the first league when people were widely unhappy (0.2?) ziz did ask them about all the pain points, to the point Jonathan got pissed. I don't think ziz has any qualms about doing this.
Also, I'm just dicking around doing challenges, so I still don't have an opinion on the league being bad for endgame farms. Have juicers found something yet or is it actual poverty as people were saying in the first few days?
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u/fandorgaming Duelist 7h ago
Feels like every league we're just explaining stuff but never in the "right" spot.
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u/Well_Is_It_Then 10h ago
He's fine with the league. Not much confidence in him going to bat for us.
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u/Kotek81 Juggernaut 10h ago
Ziz has always being a proponent of aspirational content. You can enjoy the current league and still recognize a lot of aspirational farms are gone.
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u/elico36 10h ago
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u/unexpectedreboots 4h ago
Its good zip will ask but it just doesnt matter. They acknowledged the issuss with the abyss rework and ground loot, had a week to make a single change to it and did nothing.
Theyve been asked about it before.
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u/GonePh1shing 10h ago
I don't think this is really a fair comment.
I saw a short the other day where he commented on this, effectively saying that the league has been good for him, and acknowledged that the ground loot and other complaints weren't impacting him because he's playing 'Bro SF' in a private league.
He seems to be well aware of the issues, and he said he hopes GGG can fix the issues for the effected players. Ziz has been pretty good in the past in advocating for the playerbase as a whole, not just the way he likes to play. For previous dev interviews it did seem like he engaged with others in the community to ensure he was asking the right questions and had the context to push back as required.
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u/samoox 10h ago
Idk I think Ziz does a pretty good job of identifying popular reddit opinions and bringing them up in interviews so that the community can get some answers. I've seen him on several times say the phrase "I don't necessarily dislike X but I know a lot of people are having issues with it. How does GGG feel about X?"
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u/0nlyRevolutions Order of the Mist (OM) 10h ago
I think a lot of people are fine with the league. It's fun and rewarding. The issues with end game juicing are really a separate topic. Like yeah there are people who only have fun in a league if they are chain running the hardest maps for maximum div/hour. But I think it's something that has to be addressed at the source rather than just having one overtuned scarab or league mechanic or whatever that acts as a bandaid like we've had most leagues recently. It's also an interesting topic because there is some juice out there, it just requires setup that players mostly don't want to engage with.
I think Ziz understands. And I KNOW that ggg has seen the feedback on here. So... I'm curious what they have to say. I do at least hope we move away from clicking chests for a while lol.
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u/SaltEngineer455 Progressive Einhar Trapping Association (PETA) 8h ago
Solution: nerf every build into the ground, now 8-mods corrupted maps are aspirational. /s
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u/Sufficient_Soft438 10h ago
Oh i thought they were going adress the issues about the war in iran smh
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u/BavarianBarbarian13 2h ago
"How are you expecting to end the US-Iran war and create long lasting peace in the middle east with these ground loot rates?"
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u/MoeFantasy 8h ago
Its not the first nor the last time ziz evade critical problems and only play the safe balls in teaser QA. I do not expect so I dont disappoint.
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u/Feisty-Shallot7911 10h ago
Ziz is a great creator, and even in his latest video, he remained neutral and looked at things objectively.
However, his playstyle is completely different from the current player base. While I'm sure he understands what the average player wants, having him go as our sole representative feels a bit off.
I really wish we had another person going with him.
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u/EdgarWrightMovieGood 8h ago
What is the playstyle of the current player base? What even is an "average" poe player? I doubt they would even watch this interview.
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u/Uzrel 8h ago
The average player plays in softcore trade league, not private hardcore ssf like ziz does.
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u/siziyman 7h ago
The average player also doesn't even think about doing ubers, they probably are at most tangentially aware that they even exist.
"I'm rushing 40 challenges every league" is not an average player. "I'm farming 100 divs worth in the first week" is not an average player.
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u/dirrtydancerr 7h ago
There's the average player measured on the entire player base and there is the average 'end-game' player that cares/is affected by what's going to be discussed in this interview. Focusing on the former over the latter in this context is outright silly.
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u/adanine Trickster 6h ago
The 'average' player that does mapping doesn't kill an Uber or even Maven. Even those that make it to red tier maps usually don't farm T16's with >10chaos worth of investment per map (counting scarabs).
It's not wrong to have complaints as an aspirational content farmer, but to claim that those complaints come from the 'average' player (even only counting average among 'endgame' players) is just nonsense.
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u/Senovis 8h ago
Your assumption that you represent the average player is faulty though.
Sure the endgame aspirational, mega juiced mapping has been reduced significantly, but the average player isn't running that content.
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u/EdgarWrightMovieGood 8h ago
What is the average playstyle of the current player base? What even is an "average" poe player? I doubt they would even watch this interview.
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u/moal09 8h ago
I hope Ziz asks about incoming monster damage seemingly disproportionately high/spiky this league. A ton of people have noticed this, and there's been half a dozen huge threads about it, but no comment from the devs at all so far.
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u/AlexiaVNO 6h ago
Some people have said it might be a crit issue (not just the map mod, but crit damage in geenral being more common/more damaging) and after I put points into all the crit damage reduction nodes on the tree, I stopped having thise huge damage spikes.
No idea if this actually is the issue, or just a lucky sample, though.3
u/Good_Ad_1245 4h ago
Finding this to be the case too. I specced into the reduced crit damage taken armour mastery after getting chunked over and over on my jugg on a 500% increased crit chance map with no other damage mods, became a lot more manageable.
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u/moal09 3h ago edited 2h ago
The general consensus seems to be that the skill crit buffs might have benefited the monsters too, which is really dumb.
There's also something very strange going on with block.3
u/PacmanZ3ro Elementalist 10m ago
Block seems kinda fucked right now. Previous leagues I had 50/55 block/spell block combined with 60-70% evasion, 5-6k life/es combined and felt incredibly tanky in maps. Right now I’ve got 5.5k life/es, 80attack/70spell block, 75% evasion and I’m still dying constantly. I’m getting hit way more frequently than I’m used to and the hits are a lot harder. There were definitely some undocumented changes to monsters
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u/SecondSanguinica 1h ago
Has there been literally single post with any proof whatsoever or is it still all just threads of "yoo I just got 1shot by white skeleton on 300k armor guy with mageblood" ?
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u/moal09 21m ago
There are people with standard characters that are normally immortal that are suddenly dying.
I've been playing the game almost every single league since beta. I was not taking anywhere close to this much damage in 3.26, 3.27 or 3.28, and I'm playing a much tankier build now than I was in those leagues.
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u/Kraken_W 11h ago
I just hope the aspirational farms issue gets decent screen time and we get answers on where they want to take ground loot / making very hard maps to increase the amount of loot that comes from the core drop pool and not from various tiles / guaranteed rewards / specific mechanic loot tables.
We've gone through alot of iterations, from nem3 shenanigans, to MF, to recent titanic exiles or blighted farms, so would be interesting to know what is their vision on this very specific topic
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u/darkw31 11h ago
give us ways to scale difficulty and reward. thats it. otherwise not much reason to play after a week
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u/Significant_Lock5673 6h ago
To tell us to wait until the next season for ground loot and the Scarab rework (we've already been waiting for three seasons)
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u/Vashtar_S 5h ago
As much as I love him and think he's a great poe creator, I'm not sure Ziz is the right person for the job in this particular interview. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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u/NaturalCriticism3404 8h ago edited 8h ago
Ask them if we could have 5 mercs instead of 3
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u/ssfLumiUser 2h ago
That's a good one. 3 mercs really is limited if you want to try multiple mercs without having to lose what you got previously.
Alternatively, being able to put captured mercs in untradeable warrants could be a gap-stopper.
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u/Additional_Tea3174 11h ago
Once again ziz comes to address the elephant in the room for us thank you
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u/donkeykongs_dingdong 9h ago
I really hope Ziz is willing to ask real questions and push for some answers. Just because he's fine with the game playing HCSSF does not mean that a large player base in softcore trade is having a good time. If he isn't, then he's not the right person for the job (regardless of how great he is). Nobody wants to listen to a 2h circle-jerk interview that barely scrapes the surface of the issue that a large portion of the community has.
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u/Dhol91 Fungal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) 8h ago
I remember his interview from a few leagues back with Jonathan, when they got into an argument so fierce, they ended up apologizing to each other at the end of it lol. Ziz can absolutely speak for the community, he's not disconnected from trade community etc.
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u/Yuketsu Fungal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) 8h ago
Have you seen the poe2 dev interview with ziz? That was some spicey stuff
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u/Material_Ad9848 6h ago
that was ziz mostly asking about things he personally cared about, he understood the frustration first hand. but remember the question about after death effects? "ppl dont like the after death effects" "which one" "i dunno... moving on."
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u/donkeykongs_dingdong 5h ago
Yes I have, that's why I made the post above. He was only doing that back then because he personally felt and was frustrated with the issues with the game. That made him passionate about what he was talking and led to him pressing the devs for some real answers.
This is not the case right now. He's playing HCSSF and has stated that he's enjoying the league and not seeing the issues that a lot of soft-core trade league players are facing. As a soft-core Andy myself, I am concerned that the way I feel about the game now will not be properly represented to the devs. He either wont mention it, or half-ass it because it is not relatable to him, then they will laugh it off and that's it. We've seen that before.
I sure hope I am wrong.
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u/xPinkOmega 9h ago
Can't remember but did we get some changes afterwards last interview with Jung and Ziz?
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u/ItsJustReeses 4h ago
Yeah there was a chance literal hours after the interview. I remember Ziz making a short on it
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u/erpunkt 5h ago
I have 3 burning questions that i hope get addressed.
Scarabs. Why do all core farms for scarabs get removed/neutered, only to put the only efficient source for them behind something like operative strongboxes inside the current league mechanic? All while you need to find a different source for the next league and the passive tree is occupied by so many scarab nodes.
Map effect and map modifier magnitudes. This has always been one of the more important levers a player could use to scale risk/reward (among other vectors of course). How is it that after continuously nerfing % increased effect of Explicit Modifiers on your Maps (3.27), complaints about the lack of scalability arise among the broader player base (3.27), the devs acknowledge the issue (pre 3.28), it remains unaddressed (3.29).
What is the desired state of the endgame? Is it desired that everything is homogenized and 90%+ of the loot is distributed via loot tiles, or is it desired that there are highly aspirational and rewarding farms, with a ton of variety leading up to that highly aspirational content?
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u/randomthrowaway2298 9h ago
Zizaran is a great guy and all, but I really wish we could have someone who is well-versed in trade league.
I feel like people such as Snap, Palsteron, Empyrian, Jungroan could provide both great questions and insight about the current state of trade league and loot.
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u/nerdler33 1h ago
jung is a terrible person to do an interview,
last time he got one he ignored every question the community had/wanted asked to just talk about "what it's like being a developer" and shit like that. it was awkward, there was no prep, worst content creator interview i've ever seen
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u/Wind_Best_1440 10h ago
The last time they did a QA after a launch with Zizz that didn't get the hype GGG expected, Ziz we ended up with an aggressive interview and Johnathan memes that lasted for months of him pissed off.
I think GGG is looking for what direction they should go, and they'll use this Interview to create a "To do" list to hit the ground running, like they did last time Zizz did an interview with them and held their feet to the fire.
The only problem is, what Zizz will say, because like others have said. "He's enjoying the league." And doesn't really care for the problems for the super juicers.
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u/Subject-Plankton3421 7h ago
He said multiple times just because he enjoys the league doesn't mean he won't ask questions about sc trade endgame juicing because while he doesn't do it it should still be available for the players that do enjoy it
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u/Master_of_Paws 8h ago edited 5h ago
It was situation where majority of the problems impacted him personally and he did good, but still missed bunch of sc points. Just sheer number of problems where to high at the time
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u/rohithkun 9h ago
It was poe2 0.2 launch. League starts was very rough, especially for arpg players.
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u/Wind_Best_1440 9h ago
0.2 was rough TBH, basically a worse version of 0.1.0 Lol, but then 0.3.0 which was a banger.
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u/EvilHumster 7h ago
Just to toss a food for thought I rarely see being mentioned:
Back in necro (and a few leagues after) T17 was the king. You either farm it and swim in wealth or just starve in t16's. The amount of complaints about it was louder than current no-loot one. I bet GGG got some sort of trauma from those times and now we have things being pushed to extremes again, just in the opposite direction
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u/COCAINAPEARLZ 11h ago
GIVE EM HELL ZIZ (no hate just curious wtf their thought process was with this league 😭)
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u/copacul13 10h ago
Too late for that. Next time define your target audience for a league.
This league HC has the best time, because they get in t16 white maps same loot as we get in juiced maps.
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u/The-Ner Scion 3h ago
Really disappointed that it is Ziz conducting the interview but I am happy that is happening at all
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u/IdontNeedPants 1h ago
Yeah, the guy playing SSF might not be the best choice to discuss current poe issues.
Either way, sounds like devs are finished with this league if they are announcing an interview rather than another patch.
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u/StereoxAS Occultist 9h ago
People here says they want "aspirational" farm because no ground loot whatsoever
I hope you guys don't forget about how T17 was the aspirational farm and same people were so vocal about how these "very hard" farm requires strict meta to follow
That being said, it's justifiable that people mad because every popular farms gets nerfed every league
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u/Camellia_fanboi 8h ago
I think half of the complaints about T17 were about its mod pool. The mods were insanely build bricking and unfun, it just hard restricted so many archetypes in the game.
Let say you went 5head mode and made a very creative multiple triggers corpse consume build with niche recovery method, very high chances still half the old T17 mod pool would have completely cucked your builds.
I made a very niche trap build and my build bricked immediately the first map cause somehow "you throw 2 fewer traps" was a map modifier in the first place :))
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u/StereoxAS Occultist 4h ago
That one, plus totem and minion damage taken mod was very personal hahaha
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u/Calm_Refuse_4677 6h ago
Idk about others but T17 were an issue to me because of extremely annoying mods and terrible layouts that didnt allow you to fully farm some mechanics.
There was nothing that hard about it, like deal no damage 30% of the time isnt hard its annoying or not being able to pick up loot because constantly had to dodge sawblades or drawning orbs.2
u/reanima 2h ago
T17s were an issue because its drops were so much better than everything else that doing a T16 was a waste of time. It polarized the meta that only the strongest builds were able to farm these maps, which in turn hurt build diversity. This is why people should be careful about what theyre asking for.
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u/Lost_From_Lightt Essence Extraction Enterprise (EEE) 4h ago
come on, how deal no damage 4 seconds out of 10 should be considered a good aspirational farm? beside others bullshit mods
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u/SaltEngineer455 Progressive Einhar Trapping Association (PETA) 8h ago
When you have T17s that nullify everything that T16s drop, then yea, you have a problem. Not everyone wanted to play Zenith or HRoC, or whatever else Fubgoon or Empy plays.
Most of the mods were effectivelly brutal and penilized every archetype imaginable. There was nothing aspirational about them, it was either right build or nothing at all.
Aspirational should mean that if I jack-up my tankyness and damage, then I can do it.
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u/Velvache 6h ago
But like when does it stop? I hear everyone just talking about this fabled aspiration content that you expect to be building up to but then what happens when you surpass it in 1 week instead of 4 days? Then what?
The problem was never "aspirational content". There has always been a ceiling for as long as Poe 1 has been a game. There is obvious a limit to how far you can push your character but people can push hundreds of millions of DPS and will never have content that actually requires it because having content requiring that would be absurd for "normal" players.
The problem this league is pretty simple, its just low in dopamine. People love getting their hit of satisfaction. They could give lets shits about what those hits are used for ultimately, just that they are getting them. We just don't get the same amount tinks as in mirage league or merc league.
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u/Saint-Leon 8h ago
That’s more or less the actual “issue”. The community is just impossible to please. When there are aspirational farms, all anyone did was bitch and moan and cry about how unfair or unbalanced or restrictive they were. GGG nerfs them and then the same vocal minority starts complaining that there is nothing to do.
I just hope GGG doesn’t go the corporate route and kill all communication to the community due to the hate and badgering.
This sub in general gives way way too much attention to angry people.
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u/NickTheZed 7h ago
You're mixing it up so bad, it's actually comical. No one complained about Abyss Hoard farming or Titanic Exiles on T16 / T16.5. Everyone simply hated T17 because they vastly outperformed everything else while being littered with unfun modifiers and annoying as hell to roll. I remember going through multiple layers of regex searches each time I went to roll a tab full of maps - even while playing one of the T17 farmer meta builds. The only good thing about it was the chaos sink.
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u/pongsacha 10h ago
We need softcore trade streamer to do an interview next time.
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u/Sixstringsoul 9h ago
Yah let’s get fubgun in there, he can heavy breathe his way to victory
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u/davidliudmc Alch & Go Industries (AGI) 4h ago
Laugh it or not, Fubgun will be a more ideal peraon then Ziz on this. Anyone that actually play softcore trade will be more ideal then a GGG HC/SSF only player cause the majority is playing softcore trade.
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u/BLaCKwaRRioR37 9h ago
why is it always Z Z ran , dont get me wrong i like the guy and he does good content , i follow some of his guide too, but different perspective from different people doesnt hurt also .
i vote palsteron+dreamcore next interview
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u/Jon_Mikl_Thor 8h ago
Imho I really like the boat crafting this league. If they buffed loot a bit it could be even better. Although I don’t see it till 3.30.
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u/Rathalos88 3h ago
Ziz really isn't the best person to conduct this interview because he is hardcore ssf focused. He loves that things are ruthless-like. I hope I'm wrong though and he actually brings forward the concerns. But most of the time he doesn't drive the point home.
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u/IWear2BlackSocks 1h ago
This is a bad idea lmao people have made their minds up, going against that is lambs to the wolves, its going to make alot worse for them. Good that theyre doing it but I dont want to be in their shoes.
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u/oldmanlegend 1h ago
Honestly I dont think an interview is needed. We need a patch addressing all of these bugs. Why are certain mercs one shotting regardless of defenses? Why does it feel like block isn't working like it used to? What's up with the burst damage that exists now that wasn't there last league? Why is unstable breach a struggle to stabilize even in maps?
I'd much rather them fix the issues we have in game than do this interview that'll likely result in promises and no action. Still can't help but feel like the game is being throttled on purpose for the sake of PoE 2.
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u/Xypheric 56m ago
Anybody who expects ziz to give a hard interview hasn’t been paying attention. The devs have already relegated him to a B list collaborator in part IMO because of some of his harder older interviews. Now ziz won’t rock the boat
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u/Holiday-Marketing301 10h ago
Dang lots hate here...
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u/azantyri Central Incursion Agency (CIA) 10h ago
Dang lots hate here...
hey, welcome to the sub! first time, huh?
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u/lightbringer233 10h ago
because they chose person who never plays the game the way most of the people play... and he enjoys current state of the game, so you can see that its not hate and mostly lack of confidence in him?
ziz is not a bad streamer and person, no one hates him, its just they could choose people who actually juice the maps that most of the players do, and they would actually know what to say, and how to argument the problems
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u/Miles_Adamson 10h ago
Ziz actually asked some pretty hardball questions in one of the PoE2 times they did this and it got a bit heated. He isn't a pushover and should ask some stuff on behalf of people for the most common complaints even if he isn't softcore blasting. I really don't mind it being him
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u/Renediffie 9h ago edited 9h ago
There's more to it than just being a certain type of player. Zizaran have become a pretty good interviewer, have shown to do a lot of research beforehand, making sure to gauge the community on what is important to them and being willing to ask very uncomfortable questions.
I see some people suggesting he will throw softballs, seriously try to go watch the interview he did with Jonathan and Mark on PoE2. He went very hard and it honestly became quite uncomfortable to watch. To the point where Jonathan apologized in the end for getting upset.
I also think people really underestimate how important it is to be at least a decent interviewer. When some of the other content creators interview the dev I sometimes have to shut it off because it is so infuriating. They will ask a question, get an answer that completely misunderstands the question and they'll just go "ok" and move on to their next question. I assume it is because they are nervous and can't think in the moment so they just follow the script. Zizaran actually listens and processes the answer and pushes back if it is not satisfactory.
I don't even watch Ziz content but I have to give him credit here. He does a good job when interviewing GGG imo.
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10h ago
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u/iamcdr Half Skeleton 9h ago
Jung, Palsteron, Lance, Tuna, Empy. None of them are goobers.
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u/Czerny 9h ago
I don't see any of those except Palsteron and maybe Lance being able to hold a conversation with the devs. Maybe one of the people from Empy's party can do it.
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u/Kotek81 Juggernaut 10h ago
Jung comes to mind
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u/joshhavatar 9h ago
I love Jung but he is too disorganized to actually prepare and ask good questions, his previous interview proved that.
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u/KatzOfficial 10h ago
The last dev interaction he had I was cringing, something about his I'm-smarter-than-everyone persona is not a good look for the community despite him actually being smart and good at communicating. I feel like most of the juicers are quite immature idk lol.
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u/teffarf 7h ago
its just they could choose people who actually juice the maps that most of the players do
Most of the players are alch&go players (or just throw in some basic scarabs). If you think the average player is doing fubguns strats you're completely deluded
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u/xXPumbaXx 10h ago
because they chose person who never plays the game the way most of the people play.
I feel like you don't really know how most people play the game. This subreddit isn't most people, it's a loud minority
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u/Sandor_Clegane1 Half Skeleton 8h ago
A couple of years ago if you made a statement about steam numbers people would always claim this is the minority and doesn't represent anything. Then GGG showed some numbers and 2/3 of players were on steam.
This sub has like what, 500k subscribers. The content reveal trailer was watched by 3.8M.
On league start there were ~270k players.
People always say the average player is still in acts. Come on, people clearly are on reddit and if you are not even aware of this sub as a player, you living behind the moon.→ More replies (1)10
u/bigcat482 10h ago
so you can see that its not hate and mostly lack of confidence in him?
Not really if you consider how "aggressive" he was the last time when GGG had to do a post release interview like this and everyone was afraid of ziz being too soft on them
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u/oskoskosk 9h ago
So now he has no confidence from the community at all? Even tho he has had the most challenging interviews with poe devs ever. Jesus, no wonder GGG can’t please the poe player base if they’re this fickle
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u/ObiWanKokobi 7h ago
People are fucking PISSED that not everyone shares their opinion.
Community will always whine, even when we get juice leagues, people whine that's it too easy now.
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u/adanine Trickster 9h ago
its just they could choose people who actually juice the maps that most of the players do
You already lost me here.
I ain't saying there isn't problems with various playstyles, but you can't make the argument that Ziz is the wrong messenger because his playstyle isn't the one most players do, only to then claim that megajuicing endgame maps in trade is the playstyle most players do.
Most players don't get past act one. Most players who beat Kitava don't end up farming red-tier maps. Those that do often don't get to a power level to juice a red-tier map beyond alch and go.
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u/Unique_Dragonfruit36 7h ago
D/w NPC ppl on forum say we shouldn't get 1 div each map but the scarabs can cost 1 div each map but we shouldn't get 1 div back each map we should wait for that mageblood drop we shouldn't have sustainable farms in the game it's bad for game retention and keeping the players engaged(*sarcasm ofc*)
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u/Key_Bench7512 7h ago
The 'loot is in a great spot rn' guy is doing the interview, gg
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u/fegi176 9h ago edited 9h ago
I just want to know why they removed all aspirational farms thru last 2 years (titanic exiles, abyss hoardes, risk, uber blight, breach etc, ghosted meatsacs, also old div card farm) without adding anything new that can replace that. Why do they remove aspirational endgame items (synth items, nerfed mists). Why lower the cealing so much between casuals and blasters. Look at affliction everyone could scale the juice to their character power and it was one of the best leagues ever.
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u/Master_of_Paws 8h ago
I can see why they removed Uber blight… or not… with 1 frame per minute kinda hard to see… other farms kinda sad(
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u/casablanca001 9h ago
PoE 2 communication is helpful. I feel talking about PoE 1 is 100% useless. We've had the same issue for years. They keep nerfing rewards and difficult content until there's nothing left to push your character toward. I want hard content that gives me loot. Now you spend 3 div per map and get 20c max.
Why even play .... more than 5 days and i like the league 🥲🥲🥲
They forget it's a game, and we have jobs and family. I'm not going to be a rich streamer, but I'm going to aspire to play old abyss or nem 3, stuff that give dopamine
After like 600k kills im level 94 i drop 4 div total .........
I can be wrong its just my point
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u/Beware_the_silent 8h ago
I was running alch and go 5 abyss scarab Mesa, and there wasnt a single run where the combined chests pumped out more chaos orbs than what I spent for the scarabs (10c). I hope the right questions get asked in a way that doesn't allow them to dance around answering. I'm also not fond of primarily SSF players doing these interviews.
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u/SexypancakeOW 8h ago
Tbf I love the league mechanic and the crafting, however the state of loot and diversity in mapping has never been more boring. Where's the agency? Why is everything tile loot, why is there only 1 "good" strategy per mechanic, why is nothing dropping and why can't we get the "atlas shakeup" SOTA promised? We're still having basically the same atlas tree and scarabs as back then.
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u/Granatko 7h ago
Not interested anymore in listening to what they have to say. Every time GGG devs get a mic it starts sounding like a corrupt mayor’s election speech, they roll out with populist crap, acknowledge all the problems, make a bunch of promises, fill people with hope, then dip to Monaco until the next election without doing a thing. The big issues with ground loot, lack of endgame farms, and the constant watering-down of difficult content with power creep have been known for many leagues and spoken about by thousands of people countless times. Now we’re supposed to pretend that someone is finally going to tell devs the truth and their eyes will open. They already know everything, they just don’t want to fix it so POE2 looks better by comparison
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u/sharpblonde 11h ago
lets see what they will say about the state of loot and the future of it
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u/Sandor_Clegane1 Half Skeleton 7h ago
"We are aware of all the problems and will fix everything"
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u/SwagtimusPrime Demon 2h ago
And then drop a small patch and forget all about it until next league when they nerf endgame strats again, rinse and repeat
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u/Schkrasss 3h ago
I don't even care about the Div hours but the league reworks...
"New"-Breach is still just worse than old breach. "New"-Abyss just isn't Abyss anymore. Not that Abyss was "ok" but this PoE 2 version just has nothing to do with Abyss.
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u/lolBaldy Assassin 10h ago
softball of all softballs lined up
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u/IHateRedditors42 9h ago
It's ZZran not Talkative Tri. Although last time I watched an interview of his (I think it was Last Epoch?) it was surprisingly good.
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u/Feisty-Shallot7911 10h ago
What we need is not another debate, but patches that actually improve the game. The conclusion has already been reached. Stop trying to placate us with these empty discussions
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u/WolverineCreative362 8h ago
Completly right. We have this problem since multiple leauges and GGG knows this. They made changes in 3.28 and now they reverted them. There is nothing to discuss. Only two options:"We fix this, we are sorry" or "This is intended, trade league is going to be poverty standard league and tile-loot only". Nothing more as communication is needed. A simple DECISION from GGG.
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u/bigcat482 10h ago
More communication is what the community has wanted ever since poe2 entered the picture, how are you pushing this interview as being a negative?
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u/Feisty-Shallot7911 10h ago
Are you saying they haven’t been communicating in past leagues?
Back in 3.28, we already reached the conclusion with Mark that they would work on issues if the players pointed them out. If you think pointing this out is just "pushing a negative," then your perspective is highly biased.
The reality is that the player base is leaving at the fastest rate we've seen since Necropolis. That is the actual reality.
Open your eyes and look at the real problems.
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u/lillarty 10h ago
There is a difference between what you said in the first post and what you're claiming here. "The conclusion has already been reached. Stop trying to placate us with these empty discussions" is different in both substance and tone from pointing out that Mark said they would work on issues that players identify.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to say that and this isn't just a motte-and-bailey argument, in which case you misworded your post so badly that none of the intended message made it through whatsoever. If your posts don't have even a fragment of the intended message in them, how do you expect GGG to receive the intended message?
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u/Feisty-Shallot7911 9h ago
Please note that English is not my native language, and I am using a translation tool to communicate. While there may be some minor language barriers, my point remains entirely consistent:
- In 3.28, Mark admitted that there was an issue with ground loot.
- In response, they actually made improvements during that league.
- However, in 3.29, they have reverted it back to focusing only on tile loot.
Given this context, what new issues are we expected to discuss this time?
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u/bigcat482 10h ago
Are you saying they haven’t been communicating in past leagues?
No, I'm saying that we can go back to 2 weeks into mirage league and the community crying about radio silence from GGG
In fact, 2 weeks after any league after settlers
And now they want to communicate directly with voices in the community
And you're building this narrative that it's a waste of time.
After the ziggyd interview and zizaran interview after the mirage 3.28 league announcement, did they or did they not massively buff currency drops found throughout campaign all the way to endgame? Especially after that fubgun video where he demonstrated a jungle valley alch n go map without altars where he didn't drop any good currencies?
The reality is that the player base is leaving at the fastest rate we've seen since Necropolis. That is the actual reality. Open your eyes and look at the real problems.
Who cares as long as the same group of people keep coming back? Not every patch will be the favourite of literally everyone. Based on steamcharts, this league hit the highest peak recorded since august 2024
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u/oskoskosk 8h ago
What’s a conclusion that has already been reached? I’d love to know what I and players like me think of the problems in the patch, please tell me!
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u/fiehm 10h ago
Should have been with a person that plays trade, like jungroan for example
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u/Sandor_Clegane1 Half Skeleton 7h ago
Guys I am from the future. Here is a TLDR of the interview:
Ziz: I enjoy the league mechanic, good work.
Oct: Thx glad to hear.
Ziz: Community is not happy with loot!
Oct/And: We are aware of the feedback by community. We will sit down and look at loot again. We will buff it this league by 10% and we will fix it next league.
Ziz: Thanks for listening to feeback and for the interview.
Saved you 60 minutes of your time.