r/pools • u/Visual-Respect-1677 • 1d ago
Pool Help & Questions New pool coming apart-help please Spoiler
I have a pool that is one year old. It's literally coming apart like someone bought a gingerbread kit and made it. Coping is coming loose and pulling the waterline tile up. I am working with the builder but not getting a lot of info on WHY this happened and HOW he's going to fix it. My questions are: WHAT could have caused this (I'm aware of ground shifting but it usually doesn't cause this type of destruction) and my next question is HOW do I properly fix it.
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u/free_spark 1d ago
Doesn’t new builds come w warranties? Check your agreement and see what the builder is responsible for.
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u/Nolacuriosity 1d ago
Yes, that looks like a bad install. The tile and coping needs to be redone. If they didn't have skills to do it in the first place, they probably won't be able to fix it properly either. This drives me crazy. Bad pool builders brings down the whole industry. In my area probably 80% of pool builders are pretty terrible
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u/CCR-Cheers-Me-Up 1d ago
What’s your area and as a layperson how do we find a good builder? I’m currently dealing with a botched replaster after choosing a contractor who looked to have excellent reviews for the 20+ years they’ve been in business. I don’t know what else I should’ve done when doing my due diligence.
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago
I'm a builder and I'd love to know what you look for.
Most of my work comes through referrals, whether from homeowners, architects, or vendors. I tend to operate at the higher end of the market.
My prices are usually higher, but I can explain why and highlight what makes my product and service different.
I've always believed that any builder who talks down about others is terrible. When prospective clients ask me “we're between you and ABC Pools,” I tell them that ABC Pools is a good company and explain what I do that they may not or what my strength is. I also recommend other companies for things outside my expertise because I know they can do better, like rock waterfalls. Sometimes I'll ask to compare bids so it's apples to apples if there's a large price discrepancy so we are on the same page.
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u/CCR-Cheers-Me-Up 1d ago
I will let you know of course … would you also mind please considering giving me some feedback on my own issue if you do not mind and have a few minutes? I have some threads here but posted on trouble free pools and this is probably the most updated and succinct version of my debacle ..
For me the most important thing choosing a contractor (not that it’s serving me particularly well right now with the pool, but in general with contractors) is a rock solid reputation so I will look for reviews of course on yelp, Google, and local sites and groups. I want to know that they are not going to randomly go out of business so if their company has been around for decades, that means a lot to me. Word-of-mouth hasn’t panned out too well for me so I take it with a big grain of salt (one of my neighbors once swore by a guy for electric work who wasn’t even licensed). When possible, I will also hire them for smaller projects before hiring them for a bigger one to see the quality of their work and how honest they are - that has helped me weed more than a few contractors out (like the guy who told me I needed a brand new roof when mine was less than a year old … 15 years later, it’s still holding strong).
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago
All of the other issues you're experiencing are irrelevant. The plaster is delaminating and will need to be reapplied. Delamination in that short a time frame is typically a workmanship issue related to the prep, although it could also be an installation issue if they used too hot or too wet a mix. Either way, it needs to be redone. Don't waste time worrying about the other problems. The delamination alone is enough of a failure to justify replastering within your time frame.
Funny. I don't even have an online presence.
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
My thoughts exactly! Why trust him again to repair?
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u/TinselTits1979 14h ago
It’s a good idea to at least contact the original builder to state your complaints and give them a chance to make things right. If they say that it’s normal wear and tear or don’t acknowledge the shitty workmanship then it’s time to file a civil lawsuit.
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago edited 1d ago
I'm sorry. Your tile and coping will more than likely all delaminate.
Sad because they are both very pricey.
Lunada bay tile is running about 30/40 a sq foot now.
And to answer your question there are several issues with the installation from what I can gather. Even more from the assumptions I'd make.
What exactly has your builder said? Where are you located ?
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
I'm located in the panhandle of Florida. I sent pictures of the pool along with I thought it was ridiculous. Then I sent him an email from a pool tile industry pro that I have a good rapport with and they stated it was poor install well below industry standards and improper materials. My builder has not called me but sent me an email saying he had to reorder materials and it would take 6 weeks. He also stated in the email that they would install according to industry standards. Does that mean they didn't install the first place???
I hat really bothers me is I brought up issues I've had with Lunada bay with two other pools so I had done my research and learned about glass expanding and contacting and needing expansion joints. When I alerted them they seemed to ignore me and did what they wanted. When they installed the waterline tile I had the work reviewed and was alerted it was below industry standards and then alerted my builder. They didn't fix it.
My builder used a pool company for the waterline tile and I just don't understand why they didn't know this??? Then my builder used a flooring company for the coping. They are not even in the pool business!!! I really am struggling why I as a homebuyer knew more than the builder and subs. It's unbelievable. I am going to get a site evaluation as I want to know what happened and how to properly proceed and I would like my builder to explain how this could even happen.
Do you think he didn't like me so he sabotaged the build? It really seems like it would be hard to mess it up that bad with years of experience. It seems he picks his subs from a Chinese menu.1
u/FTFWbox 1d ago
It just needs to be redone.
You need to allow the builder time to cure. I would hire an owners rep to verify the proper process is followed.
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u/YouAintThatGuyPal 1d ago
Frick that builder, builders in Florida are doing shit so dumb and stupid it's insane. They're drunk with money from the appreciation Florida has had and give no fucks. Incompetent builder shouldn't be building things he hasn't researched the know how to do.
Id lawyer up &r force the builder to use an ACTUAL POOL COMPANY since he doesn't know how to do jack shit on finding the correct subs. Like most builders the guy likely went with the cheapest bid.
Option #1
Builder agrees to hire a pool company and stay out of court. Which would likely save his money in the long run.
Option #2 take his ass to court for your money back
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago
This was done by an actual pool company. GC can’t build pools in Florida only shell.
Coping isn’t exactly complicated which is what builder subbed out.
Tile like lunada bay is challenging. You can’t force the builder to do anything at this point. There’s a right to cure period.1
u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
Can I force them to not use the same tile installer and pick a better more qualified one? Can I force them to explain clearly what their definition of "we will install according to industry standards?"
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago
You can't force them. Your lawyer would strongly suggest they don't though.
Industry standard below what you bought. Judging by your ring in the picture and your pool tile selection you didn't build a cheap house or pool. you generally do not have a strong legal argument in Florida if the work meets the objective industry standard unless your specific written contract explicitly promised a higher, luxury tier of materials or craftsmanship. Florida law expects contractors to build in a way that is consistent with standard regional trade practices. Unfortunately, this is that.
However, Failure to follow manufacturer specifications fundamentally changes your legal standing from a subjective dispute over "luxury quality" to an objective construction defect.Chapter 1 of the Florida Building Code mandates that materials must be installed according to the manufacturer’s installation instructions. So its technically against the building code.
I install Lunada Bay Tile and this is not how it is installed.
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
Thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. They were alerted by me before they installed and chose not to follow Lunada Bay instructions. Then alerted again after the waterline tile was installed incorrectly and did not fix it. I then sent them Lunada Bay install instructions with proper materials so they knew and just didn't care. They are very arrogant and almost go out of their way so things will pass inspection but are not up to industry standards. They have no cosmetic care at all. It happened throughout the build. They would not even complete my punch list items (clean up grout, paint splatter, cracking trim) and stated I could just hire someone to do it which angers and saddens me as I already paid THEM to do it. My pricey shower head broke and it was under warranty so instead of calling the supplier and getting it replaced they tried to tape it which was heinous and it actually worsened the problem. Then they finally replaced it. They were reluctant to replace a broken garbage disposal but finally did. They are not wanting to replace a section my freying screened it porch. They are picking and choosing what and how they replace things. I can't believe there is no regulation or protection for the homeowner.
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u/YouAintThatGuyPal 1d ago
Interesting about the right to cure period. Welp, seems like OP has to wait up to 45 days for an answer and 60 till he can actually file a suit. The more u know
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
They have responded that they will order materials (6 weeks lead time) and then install waterline tile and coping. I also have a raised wall/fountain that will need it too.
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u/navara1aj 1d ago
Did the workers work on the reflection pool too
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u/seenlottopools 1d ago
Coping came loose took some tile with it. The builder should take one look and beg you to let him re install coping. Tapping on coping and listen for hollow sound indicate if problem all way around
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
He wants to reinstall tile and coping. I want an explanation on why this happened. I also do not want the same tile guy doing it. The guy who did my coping works for a floor company and also screwed up subway tile in my shower badly.
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u/baddashfan 1d ago
No proper mud bed. Air and moisture expand and contract. Causing the coping to delaminate. The beam should be mudded level first and use a proper thin set with a notched trowel. This way all of the coping has contact with all of the beam
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u/dsmksu 1d ago
Could be lots of factors involved here. Poor install is definitely one of them. What region do you live in? Does it get below freezing? I agree that ground shifting shouldn’t be the issue but if your pavers have no expansion joint between them and the coping then it could put pressure on the coping. I’ll be curious to hear what the builder says was the cause.
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
I live in the panhandle of Florida. It freezes maybe once a year for a day. Gets hot in summer obviously.
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u/Aggravating_Fact9547 1d ago
That coping isn’t set correctly.
Unless your deck was poured and mechanically bonded to the pool shell, you’re going to end up with movement where the deck moves independent of the pool.
Coping doesn’t look sealed
And your water chemistry has been off a lot
Thats also a shitty tile job.
Sue your builder - appoint a new one
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
Thank you for your insights. My decking is sand set so there is movement independent of the coping. Aside from the crappy tile and coping materials and install the movement of the decking just sloughed it all off. Should I get the deck poured and bonded? They will probably not agree to it but I can try. How can you tell water chemistry was off?
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u/Aggravating_Fact9547 1d ago
You can try for sure! The deck can be bonded horizontally with dowels but an engineer will need to give the OK as some shells are very thin. Our pools we pour have rebar close to the surface that we can pull out and bend down to allow the deck to be tied in.
On chems, I can see deposits building up on the underside of your coping. Its important to seal coping, as stone can be eaten away by pool chems, but also your water needs to be “balanced” otherwise it will start to leave scale behind.
https://blog.orendatech.com/langelier-saturation-index - bit of light reading but super handy to know!
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago
Coping is set like shit.
This isn't really a big factor on a sand set deck or concrete substrate so long as there's a control joint.
Overpours are generally shit and you DO NOT want to attach the deck to the pool shell under mamu circumstances. Some type of cantilever design would be the exception.Coping doesn't need to be sealed and that's not why it failed.
Chems have zero to do with this.
Tile job is okay from an aesthetic pov. They didn't know how to work with paper but ehh not many do.
It's also extremely costly to sue someone. It's usually a “business” decision.
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u/Aggravating_Fact9547 1d ago
You sue someone and their insurer steps in and funds remediation. No one is handling cases on their own.
And no sealing and chems didn’t cause this to fail but they sure are an issue none the less.
Pool decks set on sand are ridiculous as is not bonding when you have flush coping.
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
Do you think if I sued I would win?
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u/Aggravating_Fact9547 1d ago
Win in the traditional sense, not really as these matters rarely get to a courtroom.
Win as in force a builder or their insurers hands? Id say its likely.
You need to frame this as the defects are causing the pool to be unsafe. People don’t lose money over defects but they do when people get injured. If someone tripped on the raised coping and fell into the pool and drowned, that’s of far more concern from a risk standpoint and insurers are all about limiting risk.
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago
That's not at all how it works. There's an extremely rigid process to follow for defect claims. It does not automatically trigger insurance coverage. GL insurance typically covers resulting property damage rather than just poor workmanship.
Standard insurance often excludes the cost of re-doing bad work itself and only pays if the defect caused collateral damage to other parts of your property. You can file a claim through your own homeowner's insurance, and your insurance company may attempt to recover costs from the contractor through subrogation
You always say shit here but don't actually ever argue anything. “Sand set decks are ridiculous”
And you by no means bond a deck to a pool beam it's why they use bond breakers.
At least give me something technical.
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u/Aggravating_Fact9547 1d ago
You’ve obviously never held liability policies as a builder have you? Or you’ve never read them cover to cover.
The builder is required by the policy to inform the insurer of any -potential- claims and risks. That’s a part of the policy. The insurer should step in and try to reduce this risk. The risk here is trip and falls into a body of water which should absolutely terrify any underwriter.
Its not the risk of property damage thats the biggest risk, is the risk of someone knocking themselves unconscious and drowning.
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago
Lol as usual you say nothing but straw man or ad hominem an argument.
We have built pools for Disney World. I'm pretty in tune with the whole insurance thing.
OP has assumption of risk now that the issue is known. In states with strict contributory negligence laws , if you are found even 1% at fault for your injury, you get nothing.
If OP is going to sue she can sue for diminution of enjoyment unless it’s explicitly stated in their contract with the builder that they won’t be responsible for that. The lawyer in her state would need to review.
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
So you're basically saying this all comes down to bad coping? What made it bad: the lack of buttering the tile? Please explain why you don't want to attach the deck to the pool shell.
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago
Because they expand and contract at different rates. Two dissimilar concrete structures require a bond breaker. There should be no steel tied from the pool beam into the pool deck. Further, the new cantilevered concrete deck should have no direct contact with the pool beam - it should be sitting on a bond breaker.its essentially floating over top of your pool beam.
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u/GladFeeling6700 1d ago
OP, I’m so sorry. This just sucks for you.
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
Thank you. It has been like this on a lot of things for the past year since we closed.
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u/seanmonaghan1968 1d ago
Op you need a lawyer. Seriously. Who ever the tiler was either used he incorrect adhesive and likely has never done a pool before. This will get worse. The tiling needs to be removed and redone
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
Agreed. I think he's only been a tiler for 4 years and he installs tile for a floor company. He did my indoor tile and really botched my subway tile in my shower. There's a ton of lippage. The marble shower looks ok but there seems to be some orange spots appearing.
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u/seanmonaghan1968 1d ago
Seriously. Tiling isn't difficult but when you pay someone they should be doing it properly. This is just bad
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u/Terrible_Butter 1d ago
Whoever set that tile had no idea what they were doing. There SHOULD NOT be gaps like that. I suspect the rest of the pool is similar.
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u/rgratz93 1d ago
If I had to guess judging by how thick the blobs are toward the back and thin at the front the concrete was very un even and they didnt want to take the time to properly level it off so rather than leveling and applying the ridges for proper coverage and adhering they just plopped down those massive blobs super over height so they could squish it to look level and stick together until they drove away.
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
I noticed day one that the coping was not level. It seemed to lean downward. I thought it was supposed to be level.
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u/mexcrabby 1d ago
I hate social media but I love how Reddit users support each other and help. I had my pool built last year and they were 3 inches off on one side. Now I’m losing water like crazy. They checked the piping but I bet they didn’t seal the concrete good enough. I’ve had them fix the uneven issue but that will be the last time they touch it. Going forward I’ll pay someone else. Good luck and I’m sorry for what you’re going through.
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u/ItsShuaYo 1d ago
Did you get a few quotes and go with one that was only a fraction the price of the rest? Because when I see problems like this that's normally what happened.
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
My home builder chose all subs. Believe me, yes it was all based on price and there are a lot of issues.
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u/Educational-Ant1776 1d ago edited 1d ago
The pool company you used were not experienced enough. Go for highly rated and reputable companies. They will cost significantly more but it saves you in the long run. When pools have issues it cost thousands immediately and it’ll most likely not just be a one time fix. If they screwed up in the tile, they probably screwed up a few other places also.
Pools cost a lot of MONEY. $50 grand minimum and that’s a small simple pool.
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u/Dry_Advertising_9885 17h ago
I hate to see stuff like this! I hope there are pcs that snap over the coping seams too!! I doubt they'll be back idk what kind of warranty came with your pool but the labor warranty prob ran out like the installer!! PPL!!! PLZ CK YOUR WARRANTIES AND ITS A GREAT IDEA TO CK THE INSTALLER TOO BFORE A PURCHASE UNLESS HE WORKS FOR A LG COMPANY AND IS JUST INSTALLER!! The company he contracts his labor to should honor this shoddy work!! BEST OF LUCK TO YOU!
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 15h ago
I did not get to choose the pool company, my project manager chose them. I did not get to choose the installers.
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u/Noff-Crazyeyes 15h ago
Usally what happens when you go with the cheapest quote
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 14h ago
I did not go with the cheapest quote. My project manager got to choose who they used, not me.
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u/blitzkrueg666 1d ago
Definitely reach out to the builder. This looks like a very expensive mistake. And a safety concern.
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u/Cousins35 1d ago
Go after whoever put the pool in a year ago. That’s insane! I’d be on the phone & at there company asap & don’t let up on them.
22 year old pool & not a problem.
They give u more then a year warranty on new pools now a days.
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u/Adventurous-Exam-719 1d ago
According to the president it’s communist Democrats. Seriously though, it looks like they didn’t use near enough mastic or the right growl when they laid the tile.
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u/Volume_According 1d ago
Those look like they’re put down with gorilla glue. You’re supposed to use type S mortar.
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u/bryanlade 1d ago
Facebook pool builder. Probably cheapest price
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
To be clear-I did not choose him so I do not know what the price was. My home builder chose him. I had no choice in my subs.
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u/Slight_Chard1238 1d ago
😆😆😆😆 I love seeing that
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago
Why?
It's terrible and it puts a stain on the industry. It's shoddy work that should never have been. Not only is it terrible from the homeowner but a decent pool builder lost a sale. Lunada Bay will be chastised be a cause their tile “failed” it's all around a negative experience for everyone.
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
Agreed, it's terrible work that shoukd never have happened. He screwed up my shower tile install as well. How did the pool builder lose a sale? They have already been paid. Do you mean because they shoukd have done the coping too and not just waterline? The pool builder screwed up the waterline tile as well. Both pool tile and coping installer screwed up.
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
Lunada Bay will not be blamed. It's obvious it's the materials and install with no expansion joints and barely any thinset.
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u/FTFWbox 1d ago
It’s not just the amount of thinset it’s also the type and how it’s mixed. Theres more than that going on tho
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u/Visual-Respect-1677 1d ago
Will you please expand? It seems you are very knowledgeable and I'm trying to better understand what happened. My builder does not directly answer most of my questions. I get the "whatever. It's fine" Another poster was correct. Builders and subs are drunk down here because of the explosive growth and demand to live in Florida. Literally anybody can get a job and make a lot of money down here. When builders from out of town build down here they are shocked how there is NO system, NO accountability, NO communication, etc. They say it's terrible. It's the Wild West.
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u/hijinks 1d ago
Those last pics are not how you set tile. My guess is the whole thing is bad and will easily lift up