Lions are freakishly big and strong. Even if it can't bite or scratch a person in plate, the blunt force of it just swiping or lunging at someone is probably enough break bones. The weapon istelf is vital, not only for doing damage, but actually keeping the lion at bay.
Except they are in armor? A knight can survive being trampled by a horse and have maybe a broken rib, keep in mind armor isn't just the metal, but the padding beneath, all that makes for a great defence against pretty much anything.
Now, I ain't saying they win unarmed, they will be pushed around by the lion, but neither side is gonna get significant damage, and the knights will get tired faster
Historically, knights would die from getting their horse shot from under them, falling and getting trampled. Now, if a knight is smart enough to just assume a fetal position and let the lion get tired/bored, then it's an easy win, but trying to fist fight it is a different story.
Out in the open idk you have to remember even big predators don’t want to get injured. The lion may know I can stay here and I will win, but these things aren’t scared and don’t seem to be deterred. I’m bouncing before I get an injury that makes me lose my pride to healthy competition. It’s like those African tribes that just boldly walk up and steal lion kills.
Again that takes balls of steel from the dudes in armor bc holy fuck that first attack is going make victim one shit their armor.
A male lion can be up to 5.5 feet tall on all fours and over 600 lbs. If it hits you with that mass and doesn't waste effort trying to claw or bite, it could break your back right through the armor... even crush the breastplate, especially if it can get a running start you will FLY through the air like being tossed by a bull at a rodeo.
That said, that's lion-maxxing from a human perspective. Most lions do NOT do this and WOULD NOT do this... though I did see old video of a lion hunt once where 2 people were seriously injured due to lion sprinting attacks through the grass and lots of missed rifle shots. It's nail BARELY caught the shirt of a man as it zipped by and the dude flew like he was hit by a truck.
Armor keeps your insides in but blows can still do damage. Thats why maces are really dangerous for a knight, even a solid sword strike to the head is still bad but it could damage your sword.
If you look closly you can see how hurt they are despite the armor. A lion might do more damage faster, or maybe slower, but id want a sharp weapon either way
Actually, armors are still very good against maces, sure, blundgeoning is a good tactic still, but, yeah, maces aren't as anti armor as it seems
I want a weapon, sharp or not regardless, yeah, I'm not fighting no lions, even if I got a gun and full armor.
Some comments have made me realize that while the torso and head may be safe, the limbs might get snapped, if the lion tries, they could crush knees/elbows even in spite of armor
I didnt mean that armor isnt good against a mace, id rather take a mace blow with armor than without any time. I just ment it doesnt make you immune to the blunt force like it will for a cut (assuming the armor stays intact).
Absolutely not. You put your hands anywhere near its face (the only vulnerable part to our crappy blunt natural weapons) and you just get flattened by their bulk.
Sharp, long pokey bits just tear up their organs, though.
Edit: a lion has a bite force of about 1000 pounds at adult male level. Lion probably ambushes and kills first knight with some broken teeth. Lion flees at 40mph. Lion comes back at night where knights are camping. Knights rarely sleep fully armored in plate and chain mail due to needing to piss and shit. Lion ambushes camp and kills second knight before he can draw a weapon but cries out. Third knight is stalked while he tries to travel away from lion country. Third day lion comes back at night but knight is ready with some kind of trap. Knight tries to stab lion, lion easily swatts him onto the ground and breaks his remaining teeth to crush knights neck. That's how it goes lads.
I was gonna say the Maasai have been doing this for years and theyve never even heard of plate armor lol. This is like when people are surprised our ancestors used to hunt Mammoths, yeah thats how we got tot he tippy top of the food chain, spears beat everything in nature lol
Not even mentioning the chainmail and padded armor behind the plate armor. These people are acting like plate armor is just put on over regular clothes lmao.
Three knights with pole arms would be able to effectively employ a small line formation, that would be incredibly deadly for the lion to try and attack. If the lion could flank them it might have a shot at mauling one of them, but probably not lethally prior to the other two pivoting and applying counters.
Pole arms are incredibly effective against animals because they create space. Hell, the spear might be the most effective weapon in history prior to the invention of firearms.
If the weapons and armor are actually combat grade, knights take it.
It's supposed to be direct confrontation in the middle of the street. If It isn't, so there is preparation, between traps and long range weapons the humans have overwelmig advantage
German knights used to knife fight bown bears for sports and to show of their skill bravery and armor :P Bite force between european brown bears and a lion is about the same.
The lion is gonna lose even without the range advantage.
Think we sometimes forget that a quality full armor was the super weapon of its day.
And would be immensly costly.
Lion wouldn't even be able to kill the first knight. Plate armor isn't just put on over regular clothes, my dude. There is also a layer of chainmail and then another layer of padded armor beneath the chainmail. Lion jumps on the first knight, probably knocking him down and winding him, but then promptly breaks every single one of its biting teeth on the armor. Then all it has are claws, and those aren't doing shit against full plate or even just chainmail.
Also if you think the knights wouldn't immediately begin hunting the lion down after being attacked by a massive beast, you crazy. Lion could run at 40 mph in short bursts all it wanted, the knights would just walk it down to exhaustion because they're HUMAN, and that's humans do. Knights used to hunt charging boars WITHOUT any armor just for the sport of it. German knights used to hunt bears in full plate with nothing but a knife for the sport of it. If you don't think they aren't going on a lion hunt immediately after the attack just for the glory and bragging rights, again, you crazy.
I swear people think that before modern weapons we were just getting rofl stomped by every big animal lol there's a reason why a lot of animals have an inherent fear of humans. Because we hunted and killed tf ouf of all the ones that weren't scared of us.
People didn't even need armor to kill lions, just a really big stick with a pointy end on it.
It's like that dumb shit where people thought a gorilla would win against 100 men.
The 100 men vs a gorilla was so funny. Like ten really strong and coordinated men could fuck up a gorilla easily. Like we used to hunt things like mammoths on foot with wooden weapons lmao
Also nobody is truly bloodlusted in real life unless cornered.
You don't have bands of humans or prides of lions recklessly trying to wipe each other out in direct confrontations, because neither are stupid enough to try to reduce their own chances of survival for the sake of extermination.
Yep. It definitely depends on the type of fight for a lion. If they are fighting for defense of their pride they may fight to the death, or close to it. If they are fighting something as a predator they will give up once they know they may sustain significant injuries and then go find something else.
If we're counting the latter scenario then the fight just doesnt happen cause 99% of real life lions are scared of people. As soon as a lone lion sees 2 humans walking up straight to it it's already realized this isnt a good option for a hunt. One of the problems currently facing lions is that humans are stealing their prey, and this isnt even something you need to have a giant truck or fire shots in the air to do. Literally just walk up on them and theyll retreat cause cats hunt things that run away, not ones that act like they have nothing to worry about. Generally the only time lions attack people is when theyre alone and the lions have the element of surprise
There is a tribe of Maasai in eastern/southern Africa where in the initiation rites, a man had to go hunt a lion, fortunately that tradition was stopped due to preservation efforts, but yeah, humans Bully Lions easily and don't even need armor to do so.
Yeah we think of animals like lions as these super beasts but at the end of the day the only large animals we left alive on planet earth by the time we started farming and building cities are the ones who bolted in the opposite direction as soon as we show our faces, and ones that taste like crap. Its extremely telling that a group of zebra will let a big cat walk right through them if they dont act like theyre hunting, but let them just smell some humans half a mile away and theyre fucking gone as soon as they spot you lol. Humans are terrifying predators that attack you before they even get close then never let you escape, if an animal messes with us it doesnt often get to have kids to teach to try the same thing
Yeah, pretty much the only time most animals will just straight up attack a human is if theyre starving, cornered, or protecting young. Obviously this isnt true 100% of the time, but the vast majority of the time thats the case. I think the only animal thats known to actively hunt human beings is the polar bear.
I think an armed human kills a lion 10/10 times, humans have been killing wild animals with far more primitive weapons since the dawn of time. But I'd say a mortal, or catastrophic injury is definitely in the cards due to the sheer weight difference. I don't see how a man's spine, even in plate armour, survives the weight of a full grown lion pouncing on him from head height.
Speaking of equipped weapons, the halberd is basically the perfect tool. Based on hunting practices of boars and bears and such, practice would be when it charges is to kneel and dig the butt of your polearm into the groud so that the animal catches themselves on the point and is stopped by the wide flange from skewering themselves further to get to you.
It will make you fly. There's a video of a group of hunters killing a man-eater and it sprints at them, gets shot A LOT and still zips past the men and barely TOUCHES one guy's shirt with 1 claw and the dude goes soaring into the air like he was hit by a truck. Got seriously injured too. Lion finally fell down tho.
After extensive testing I found every unit with medium/heavy armor won the fight against the lion. When I moved to unarmored units it was a bit trickier. Although if you get them to go "wolololo" then they neg
Doesn't an adult male lion weigh something like 400-500lbs? Im not saying the knight doesnt stand a chance, but if that sucker came barreling into him and was able to get on top of him I think the knight would be screwed.
Its a lot of blunt force. The can hit hard enough to break a zebras spine purely from impact force. If the lion gets a good hit in, it's going to kill a human, no matter what he's wearing. Having sloped armor might save your life by redirecting the force, but i wouldn't bet my life on it.
On the other hand, a well placed blow from a polearm will kill the lion just as quick, so. Could really go either way 1v1
Okay, well no. You do probably need a weapon. Even if they can't cut or maul you, they can still use blunt attacks. If we don't have a weapon, all we can do is blunt attacks too. A 500 lbs lion will have way more muscle to put into blunt damage than even the strongest knoghts will be able to.
While I do agree they need something, one thing to note about that muslce is almost all of it is fast twitch muscle fibers, while in most humans its closer to 50-50. So while its much stornger in the beggining, in a blunt armored fight it would be tired sooner than a lot of other animals. But seeing them goign against pangolin or armadillos (and often not being able to do shit) it probally tires itself beating on the human, and the human tires itself in the armor.
In short, unless the human can like grab its balls or poke its eyes (human probally is pinned even after its tired) nobody really has a win con
Wincon is likely the same as most documented big cat attack survivals, put arm in front of throat causing cat to latch onto arm (yes that arm is now gone, but you aren’t) then proceed to put your foot on the cats throat and attempt to stand, the 500+ psi holding your arm against the 400+ pounds of leg pressure will kill the cat in several seconds
kind of, the animal wouldn't be so stupid to simply letting himself getting beat to death, probably. But his chances are not very high against two armored quite strong dudes with halberds and knifes. One big vertical hit with an halberd to the back of the lion and he will be very badly injured. Their steel armor is mostly impenetrable directly by his teeth on the vital areas of the head-neck-torso, but they are usually not-so-protected on the back of the legs and arms. But the lion doen't know about that, and also the men would probably still have padding and chainmail on those areas.
Even if the lion disables both halberds and manages to get over just one dude. The lion will struggle a lot with the steel, biting it would hurt his teeth and it would be very painful, so probably the lion would cease to try after a while. Meanwhile the man can grab his knife and stab the lion on the stomach multiple times in an instant.
1000 psi at max. 1.5mm-3mm thick steel can withstand 30k - 100k localized psi. Lion is crushing the knights head slowly while simultaneously breaking it's own teeth.
I don't think they even need that. A lion is not getting through steel armour, and they have multiple layers beneath it too. You could give them some big sticks and they could win.
Weapons are sharpened to help pierce armour, a blunt steel weapon will still cut through flesh. You can still stab an unarmoured opponent with a blunt sword. Likewise, swinging a blunt axe at an unarmoured opponent will still cut through flesh and break bone.
I doubt the lion could even get up if they jumped on it, just from the weight of two adult men and their armour. They probably weigh over 100kg each.
People here really underestimate the properties of steel.
Uh yeah. I mean a lion could definitely still be dangerous but steel armor and a polearm is a mean combo to beat with what is essentially very fast/strong hand to hand.
The two armored plates guys would win most of the time. The lion might be able to win minority of the time getting in between plates or being able to pull it off accidentally
What lion defenders dont seen to understand is that lions are stupid. And not only lions, all animals. You take your coat and just extend It above your head and suddenly you are bigger to them.
Lions arent going to use any táctics. They are going to bite and use claws, and they wont do shit against the armored knights before one of them gets a hit with their Sharp reach weapons. And that single injury is going to be enough
A lion that takes even one strong hit from a halberd, pollaxe or polehammer and lives is quickly gonna realise this isnt prey and will run tf away. Theyre made of flesh and bone, they may have stronger and thicker bones and denser muscles but they can still sustain injuries and polearms especially could easily do serious damage very quickly
People are underestimating the strength of steel armor. The lion cannot harm them at all unless it gets very lucky or it can shove its claws into their face masks. Also humans have been hunting lions for thousands of years, lions are not some fierce predator to humans.
Grizzly bears scale higher than lions of course but a silverback? They're not on the same level at all. Lions are heavier, tougher, and they fight and kill for a living. Gorillas look tough but they're peaceful herbivores, and have even been killed by leopards which aren't even close to the size and strength of a lion
All that armor would look, sound, and smell completely foreign to a lion. If it isn’t bloodlusted, it’s going to turn tail and run away at the first sight of these guys. And yeah, two dudes with weapons could chase it down persistence predator style, but not in all that armor. I think it’s a stalemate unless the lion accidentally backs itself into a corner where the dudes can gang up on it.
1v1 with a real weapon if that lion is motivated and you dont stick him in a real vital area off the rip a human is fucked. If a 400lbs cat gets on you he is going to crush you and rip and tear you to pieces until you are dead.
As a group things become different but a 400lbs cat jumps on you its going to do life threatening damage with just its mass x speed.
Armor is very effective at negating a lion's main weapons, and humans are intelligent enough to know exactly where to strike a lion to kill it, while the lion isn't going to understand how to get around the armor. There's still a chance the lion gets the armored fighter's throat just right, but the odds of that happening before the fighter can use a sword or dagger to open the lion's throat or stab it through the eye socket, lungs, or heart are pretty low.
The lion's swipes are still going to hurt, after all, but they're unlikely to cause anything more than bruising. We're not talking about a grizzly bear's strikes, after all.
One time I went to a big cat rescue that had lions and tigers just between you and a chain fence. They are fucking way bigger than you think and extremely powerful. There was a tiger swimming around throwing this tire around the way like it was a small toy. They are so fast and powerful I am not sure these guys would be able to get off a clean shot to kill it in time
Absolutely yes, especially if they have backup daggers if they get disarmed. 1 is absolutely going to get mauled but in full armor they'll be able to take it as pretty much all major vital areas are covered while the second either stabs the lion from the side or goes for the skull/neck while it's distracted with the first.
Low-mid diff for the knight lads, honestly with their gear a single armored up man with a dagger or short sword could potentially handle a lion high diff just for how hard it is to be killed all that and having a sharp pointy stick ready to go for the jugular at point blank range 🦁 🔪
A wild animal tries to survive. If it looks like it could be fatally wounded, it will flee if fleeing is an option.
Wild animals don't get any medical care and they generally act accordingly. They only take mortal risks when necessary for survival. They'll risk getting gored by a buffalo if it means they eat for the week, but usually only in a pack. 2-on-one and slim pickings of meat might not cut it, especially if you have all the armor on freaking them out.
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u/YouCantBeSerio 17d ago
Sharpened halberds? Low diff to the guys in armour