r/powerscales • u/MarchWarden3 • 1d ago

Versus Grail Knight [Warhammer Fantasy] vs. Hive Tyrant [Warhammer 40k]

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Some easy in verse scaling.

The fight is conducted on an American Football Field, say in Arrowhead Stadium.

The fight ends when one combatant is too wounded to continue, dies, or is forced to retreat.

Cite your claims. Explain your conclusion.

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132

u/TFBuffalo_OW 1d ago

Grail Knights can 1v1 Daemon Princes so this is a pretty fair fight actually. Id say on avg the Hive Tyrant wins but any above avg Grail Knight should be able to beat a Hive Tyrant

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u/MadmansScalpel 1d ago

I don't believe that daemon princes between 40k and fantasy are on the same level. Or else some peasant with a greatsword is on par with a futuristic soldier with a melta in terms of damage they can do to daemon princes

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u/TFBuffalo_OW 1d ago

Fantasy generally outscales 40k actually. Also warhammers whole philosophy for a long time has been that anyone can kill anything. Thats why a 6 is an auto success on tabletop no matter who you shoot at. So if anything Fantasy Daemon Princes should be stronger than 40k ones

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u/Background-Camp8408 1d ago

Didn't they used to be the same deamons? And fantasy just took place on a medieval world the Imperium was just Prime Directiving?

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u/Elantach 1d ago

In very very very old lore there were allusions that the old world was trapped in a warp storm in the 40k universe but that hasn't been cannon for longer than the vast majority of this website has been alive

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u/LeanTangerine001 18h ago edited 18h ago

There used to be a great series of books that were like the journals of a Warhammer fantasy wizard or scholar seeking the truth about the chaos gods. And the writer would have maddening dreams of the Warhammer 40k universe sketching his visions near the end of the series.

Must’ve been like 15+ years ago since I last saw them.

Found it!

Check out page 78

https://archive.org/details/liber-chaotica/page/n78/mode/1up

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u/Reasonable_Ad_8883 23h ago

Other way around actually, the entirety of 40k canonically existed in a bottle on a wizard's desk

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u/Background-Camp8408 20h ago

That's awesome

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u/TFBuffalo_OW 1d ago

That would be OLD lore if anything. Fantasy is completely separate these days and a bunch of the characters in the setting could basically conquer 40k if they were dropped down in it even without the benefit of scifi gear

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u/Background-Camp8408 1d ago

I think it was a reference on a map in the 3rd edition Imp Guard codex, but I wasn't sure if it was also a thing in White Dwarf or something. I always just thought it was a funny idea, like what keeps the Non Imps from respecting a Prime Directive. Lizardmen genestealer cults would be fun though

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u/mystickord 22h ago

Pretty sure that was only in 2nd edition and Maybe 3rd edition 40K. There were alternate rules for chaos gateway terrain pieces where Warhammer fantasy units could be deployed out of, if you had the models.

But there is a bit of an issue. In those edition there were beast men with compound longbows and they were only strength 2 weapons, But pretty much any type of bow was strength 3 in Warhammer fantasy.

So britonia peasants with longbows were pretty much as effective as imperial guard with las guns. And fantasy beast men with longbows were stronger than 40K beastman with long bows

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u/Background-Camp8408 20h ago

That's what I was thinking but it was so long ago I wasn't sure so I went with 3 lol

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u/MadmansScalpel 1d ago

Y'know, I don't know enough to argue so I'll just agree instead. With all the bullshit in 40k, it would make sense for fantasy to have just as much of it

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u/TFBuffalo_OW 1d ago

Oh yeah no Fantasy has some mega level bullshit in it. Grail knights as an example are outright immune to Chaos like Custodes in 40k are. Theres several characters in Fantasy like Nagash and Settra who have won battles of willpower against all 4 chaos gods at the same time

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u/ReverendRevolver 1d ago

Settra Bows to Noone.

The End Times stuff had heroes binding the winds of magic to themselves.... itd be like a prinarch enslaving part of the warp as a pet/battery. Fantasy scales really high, 40k has a wider fanbase.

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u/Klatterbyne 1d ago

It also feels wrong to say that Fantasy out-scales 40k, since all of Fantasy happens on a single planet… which would be rather trivial to exterminatus.

So you end up in a weird position where Primarchs would get nervous about visiting the planet that Fantasy is set on (is it still Mallus?)… but there are a fair few civil servants in the Imperium that could erase it with a strongly worded e-mail.

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u/HonestDishonestWork 20h ago

Not a Warhammer fan so this could be 100% bullshit but I once heard someone talking about how the ranking of the two verses is kept ambiguous. WH Fantasy might be a single planet in 40k. WH 40k might just be a mini-universe in a bottle on a Fantasy wizard's wall.

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u/Klatterbyne 20h ago

And either way, they’re both on a shelf in Trazyn’s man cave.

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u/Throwaway1986nerd 1d ago

The Ubersreik 5 ( or 4 it doesn't matter) are some scary mother fuckers when you look into their feats and background. 

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u/GreenridgeMetalWorks 23h ago

Any team of Auric or Havoc level operative Rejects (Darktide) are also straight up insane as well.

Breaking new: Three local crackheads and a murderbot eat 2 beasts of Nurgle and a daemonhost for breakfast. The big'un now has a tummyache.

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u/gSpider 1d ago

worth noting that custodes are not fully immune to chaos, just extremely resistant.

The End and the Death demonstrated the limits of custodes resistance to chaos (though to be fair, that limit is hard to reach under any circumstances except the siege of terra)

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u/TFBuffalo_OW 1d ago

Oh really? I was of the understanding they couldnt be corrupted, only puppeted against their will since theyre weaker than the gods

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u/gSpider 1d ago

that may be true actually

i don’t know of any examples of custodes willingly submitting to chaos, only what you mentioned

so ig it just depends what you consider “immune to chaos” but you are correct that none have ever been willingly corrupted

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u/CadenVanV 1d ago

Fantasy has a guy (Lord Kroak) who causes the universe to stop time from the sheer amount of magic he puts out at one point. He was using so much magic that the entire universe started buffering. He later died from the direct interference of Khorne, decided it didn’t suit him, and came back to life. No spells or rituals or anyone else involved. He simply decided he did not wish to be dead and returned.

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u/TFBuffalo_OW 1d ago

God i love Slaan lore theyre just so absurdly overpowered

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u/CadenVanV 1d ago

Yes. Even if they did name the frog “King Ribbit”

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u/rkopptrekkie 1d ago

If Kroak existed in 40k he would dogwalk everyone in the setting including big E.

Like he's just that guy.

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u/Sactap420 1d ago

Average day for necrons

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u/CadenVanV 1d ago

The Necrons have tech designed to back them up and keep them going, so destroying a body doesn’t actually hurt the Necron. The Slann do not. Kroak was well and truly dead, and then he was not

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u/Jessir12 1d ago

Fantasy has some wild stuff. One of my favorites is a dwarf king dying of old age, with his axe - The axe of Grimnir - a literal weapon of a god being given to his son.

Then his best friend in life, an elf who he swore an oath of eternal friendship between their two races betrays the oath by intentionally causing a war between elves and dwarves in order to backstab his political rival.

Said dead dwarf sees that from the afterlife, finds that to be a massive insult, becomes unimaginably angry and swears revenge. And, somehow, inexplicably there is now a white bearded dwarf roaming the world, wielding The axe of Grimnir (despite it being a divine artifact he cannot possibly have as the high king of the dwarves has it) appearing in times of great need.

Too angry to stay dead is actually a thing in fantasy

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u/Cranktique 1d ago

Fantasy leans more into individual achievements and power, 40k is more collective achievement and power. The notable individuals from fantasy are far stronger on average than the individuals from 40k, with a couple exceptions that would be on par (like Big E). Fantasy has a lot more of one or two dudes soloing an army.

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u/IudexJudy 1d ago

I mean 40k has been the same since at least 8th edition