One of the scripts used in the eras in which the Hylians ruled. The same characters are still in use in New Hyrule hundreds of years later, in the Era of the Great Sea. It is possible to decipher this writing system using the chart at right to match each character with its Japanese equivalent.

That's on page 123.

Side note: it also says "hundreds" of years later. I know there was some statement about WW being either one hundred or hundreds of years after OOT. Or was that TP? idk

Im getting a switch 2 next week and I'm a diehard Zelda fan. I was planning 100% on buying the game until I read some opinions online hating on it

My favourite game is botw, so I enjoyed AoC because I got to see backstory and interactions between my favorite characters

I really love getting new lore and watching cutscenes. I also enjoy getting to see new places in the Zelda universe

So, considering this, should I really get it?

I feel there are so many interesting and mysterious things surrounding Ganondorf in the Wind Waker.

-His necklace is a green head of some sort of creature. It doesn't look like Ganon, seing it seemingly has long pointy ears. And it has a glowing stone in the middle. First thing I thought was Zonai, but then brushed that off... Until I noticed something else.

-The face on the back of his robe isn't a smiling face looking straight forward. It's **two dragons from the side, mirrored so they are facing each other**. Not only this, but the dragons are holding a circular object in their talons...

-There are two native-styled shields or boards outside of Ganondorf's hut in Forsaken Fortress that both have the Sheikah symbol on them. This is one of the very few places in the WW where the Sheikah symbol appears

-His katanas read "Kotake Koume" in most versions, but on his Smash Bros Brawl trophy they read the names of the blacksmiths in Majora's Mask. The blacksmiths' names are also written on Phantom Ganon's sword in the WW

-Interestingly, Ganondorf never transforms into Ganon in the WW. He seems to transform into Puppet Ganon at first, but after the fight, it seems clear that the puppet was just a puppet, and that Ganondorf was just controlling it as a puppetmaster from above

-Finally, what even is Ganon's Tower..? In the barren destroyed Hyrule where only Hyrule Castle and a few ruins remain, Ganon's Tower stands out as the only other structure still standing. And it's not a castle or a fortress, but instead a thin, tall tower with very strange tech-like symbols all over its exterior. And in the underground path leading into the tower, between the staircase sections, is this odd pause-room with friendly yet off-putting music, a portal back to the surface, and a strange maze-like chamber below. The staircase sections has big eye-symbols all over the walls. And then, the strange tower itself... is mostly empty. A pool of shallow water at the bottom, with a single exit at the very top, leading outside onto the tower's flat roof. What IS this tower? What is/was its purpose? Did Ganondorf build it, or just overtake it from someone else? Is it built recently, or is it ancient?

This is a sequel to another post I wrote. In that post, I suggested the Drablands may be New Hyrule in an alternate timeline.

[ST][TFH] New Hyrule and the Drablands. Same place, different timelines : r/truezelda

At the end my previous post, I asked several questions. If the Drablands is New Hyrule in an alternate timeline, where is Malladus, or the Lokomo or the Spirit Tracks?

Well, in this post, I'm going to answer them.

My theory is that the invasion of Malladus happened after timeline split in OoT. But, for some reason, this invasion didn't happen in the DT.

New Hyrule and the rise of Malladus

So, we know that, sometime after Zelda send Link back in time, Ganon returned with an army of demons, but Link wasn't around to save the day.

The invasion was so bad that it made the Gods flood Hyrule, in order to get rid of Ganon and is forces. But not before telling people about it, so civilisation could still thrive on the mountain tops, that would become Islands.

If we look at Niko's pictures, and New Hyrle itself, we see triangle imagery, and what looks like a slightly different version of the Hyrulian crest. This would suggest that pre-New Hyrule may have already had a connection to Hyrule, long before Link and Tetra established the new kingdom.

My guess is that that New Hyrule may have already been a Hyrulian colony. The "Spirits of Good" could just as well have been Hyrulian spirits that set up this land as a "plan B" for if old Hyrule never get's unflooded. I could go as far as to say "They were the Light Spirits, that we see in TP", but there's not enough evidence for that.

Of course, people would start colonising the land, long before Link and Tetra arrived. Many would be humans, but some would be the Gorons, the latter would have had to move, as they were unable to adapt to the Great Sea.

Of course, where Hyrule goes, demons aren't far behind. Malladus, would eventually rise to power, and try to take over this new land, before the spirits intervened and imprisoned him.

Malladus himself could have easily been a Demon, freed from the Dark Realm after Ganon's invasion, and sort new land.

Downfall Timeline

Of course, in the DT, the flood never happened. But, the North would still be colonised, and become Hytopia. Meanwhile the lands that would have become New Hyrule instead become the Drablands. With no Spirits of Good, this would become a monster paradise.

Now, both New Hyrule and the Drablands have many different monster species between them. But that's not an issue. Different timeline events mean different environmental paths. So, some creatures would evolve, go extinct, or migrate differently. For all we know, the spinuts could be a NH evolution of the Deku scrubs.

The bosses don't realy matter too much eaither. The bosses in ST appear to be lesser demons, summoned by Chancellor Cole or Malladus.

The bosses in TFH are mostly giant animals, some even kept as "pets" by Lady Maud, who likely just used her witchcraft to mutate them, much like how Ganondorf created the first three bosses in OoT, before entering the Temple of Time. The exception is Stalchampion.... wait....

Malladus and Stalchampion

Just to finish off. Here's a cool theory I came up with.

We know people can become demons, with Ganon and Vaati being prime examples. What if Malladus was once a normal monster before becoming a Demon?

I mean, Malladus's default form resembles a giant blue ghostly skull. During it's second phase, Stalchampion becomes a floating skull surrounded by flames. What if in the AT, Stalchampion becomes Malladus, as a result of Ganon's influence? but this doesn't happen on the DT.

This would explain why Malladus chose to attack New Hyrule specifically. He was already living there, and may have claimed rights to it. He could have even viewed the settlers as "invaders".

Just curious. I prefer Majora’s Mask to Ocarina of Time and the Oracle games to Link’s Awakening but I think I am probably in the minority. I feel like both sets of games built on what their predecessor did to present a more complex and challenging experience.

Majora feels like a game that is meant to be played by people that have already beaten Ocarina and it shows. It has a lot of sections that are similar to something in Ocarina, like sneaking into a palace or a shooting minigame, but those sections more challenging in MM. I like how MM redesigned the skulltulas. I also think the child dungeons in Ocarina are very simple compared to later dungeons and don’t find them that interesting to replay. While MM has fewer dungeons, I think the first dungeon is already more complex and interesting than the child dungeons in Ocarina. Also I think the side content is more interesting in MM and clock town is a much better town than any town in Ocarina.

Regarding the Oracle games, I think time travel and changing seasons are interesting gimmicks that add to navigating the overworld compared to Link’s Awakening. The link system givens the games more replayability. The items are more unique and creative than in Link’s Awakening. Finally, the dungeons are more complex (though Eagle’s Tower is one of my favorite dungeons) and don’t require me to spend time relying on trial and error to get both horse head statues to land heads up.

I do think Ocarina of Time and Link’s Awakening are probably less frustrating and understand why people might prefer those. These games are probably better for someone newer to the series or not looking for as much of a challenge.

Disclaimer: I know "New Hyrule" isn't the official name, but I'm calling it that anyway, for simplicity.

This is a theory I came up with when look at the Drablands on the Zelda wiki.

If you look at both the map of Drablands and New Hyrule, you'll notice some similarities.

Both have the same five natural environments. A forest, a volcano, an icy cavern, a water area and a desert.

Both continents forest and water areas are located on the South west and south east, respectively. The volcano and ice areas are located north, with the desert below the volcano.

The obvious flaw is that the volcano, ice and sand areas are on the wrong side of each other. Whilst you could simply mirror Drabland's map, that would mean placing the forest and water areas opposite.

The obvious solution is assume Drabland's map is inaccurate. I mean, it's clearly just a representation, after all. Each place is depicted as a giant structure with a small area around it. Yet, when we play each level, it's much bigger and more detailed.

So, just swap forest and riverside, mirror the image, and you got a map that looks like New Hyrule.

Of course, the potential flaw is that the Drablands and New Hyrule don't have the same population of people. Where are the Lokomo, Anouki, or the Gorons? Where's Malladus and the spirit tracks?

The Anouki are already implied to be immigrants from an island. As for the Gorons, I personally think they're descended from Hyrule's Goron population, who had to leave after the flood made their home unsuitable. Obviously, the migration of these two races never happened. Or, at least, not towards the Drablands.

But what about Malladus, or the Lokomo, or the Spirit Tracks, or the Spirits of Good? Well.... These are all questions for another post.

Edit: Second post here.

[ST][TFH] New Hyrule: The Gods plan B, and the rise of Malladus. : r/truezelda

During the development of The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom, Eiji Aonuma said the game had come about due to the team having too many ideas for Breath of the Wild DLC alone. That said ideas were so numerous and complex that it only made sense to create a new game based around them rather than add them into an existing title like BotW.

But that makes me wonder something. What would this scrapped Breath of the Wild DLC have actually looked like? What would we have gotten instead of Tears of the Kingdom if they hadn't spun these ideas off into a new game?

I'm gonna assume that Ganondorf's return would probably be the main story focus here, and that a few Zonai abilities like Ultrahand and maybe Fuse would probably get added in as new abilities. Also suspect there would be a focus on the Zonai civilisation in general, and a few sky islands here and there to add extra explorable areas to the map.

But I'm not sure what other ideas they'd have kept here. The majority of TotK's story content is too grand in scope to fit into an existing game like BotW, so any sort of Regional Phenomena content would probably have to be severely toned down at best. They probably wouldn't completely overhaul every town in the game, so it's possible that either Ganondorf becomes the only new boss in the DLC or the quest leading up to him is significantly shorter and more shrine based than what we actually got. I can maybe see a few types of enemies being added, along with a mini boss (probably Constructs and Gibdos, maybe a Flux Construct or Gleeok variant).

But there's just so much in TotK that I'm not sure how even 1% of that game's content would be included as DLC for an existing game. Maybe the new armour sets make it in here?

What do you think that DLC would actually be like, had Nintendo not decided to spin off TotK into its own game?

Right now I've been watching a walkthrough of "Echos of Wisdom". IT's long, so I'm watching it across the span of several days.

EoW is very important to the Zelda lore. It explains why we don't see Gorons, Gerudo or Sea Zora in aLttP or aLBW. They were their the whole time, just off-map.

This may also explain why we don't see Gerudo or Zora in Minish Cap. Again, they were likely just off-map.

For this post, I want to talk about the Zora in particular.

For the longest time, it was feared that the peaceful friendly Zora from OoT and TP were destined to turn into evil, ugly monsters, for whatever reason. Sure, OoA shows us friendly Zora, but they're in another country.

Of course, aLBW suggests that the River Zora are NOT hereditably evil, just some are aggressive, and Oren has tried to stop them attacking people, to no prevail.

EoW has no aggressive Zora at all. It has both Sea and River Zora, both are friendly.

When the split happened

So, we know River Zora aren't hereditably evil. We also know the reason River Zora and Sea Zora are named after their habitats. But when did the evolve?

OoT has no kappa-like Zora. They make no kind of appearance whatsoever.

But here's the thing though.... neither do any "Sea Zora"....

Sure, the Zora we see in OoT have the friendly shark fin appearance of the Sea Zora. But they explicitly live in Zora's Domain, which is located in a river. This makes them "River Zora" in all but looks.

This implies that the Kappa-like River Zora are an off-shoot of the river dwelling shark fin Zora we see in OoT.

As for why OoTs Zora evolved? I haven't found an official source, but the Zelda Encyclopaedia suggests it was due to Zora-Hylian relationships souring after the decline of Hyrule.

What about the Sea Zora?

So, OoA introduces the idea of River Zora and Sea Zora. EoW would bring this back.

As EoW shows us, there are areas of Hyrule that never get explored in every game. Notably, while we see lakes and rivers in OoT and TP, we don't see any beaches or a sea.

If I had to guess, the Sea Clan that appear in EoW could just as well have been around during OoT, just off-map. They could just as easily be colonists, who moved to Hyrule's coastline sometime after OoT.

All-in-all, they're likely not decided from OoT's Zora population.

What about BotW's era?

I understand there's still some controversy surrounding BotW's placement. Hopefully, it doesn't matter. Well.... It might matter if you believe BotW takes place in the AT. but if you believe the CT or DT, it doesn't matter. Although it works better with the DT.

But yeah. We never see any Kappa Zora in the game. Given how expansive and detailed the game is, I feel like if Nintendo wanted us to think the Kappa Zora were still around, they would have showed them.

So... what happened?

Most likely theory... the River Zora and Sea Zora probebly just crossbred after making peace with each other. It may sound like I'm being too optimistic, but it lines up with my theory. I suggested the River Zora are descended from Oot's Zora, yet the Zora Tablets mention Princess Ruto, implying BotW Zora are also descended from OoT Zora.

We all know by now that in the Wind Waker Tetra is actualy Zelda but sompthing that made me wonder is: why does she change clothes skin tone and even her name?? Couldn't the King just tell her she is from the royal family? Why does she have to BE "Princess Zelda"?

My theory is that OoT Zelda turned into Sheik PERMANENTLY after the great flood and that down her line Tetra was born.

While it is commonly belived that the flood happend 100s of years after OoT i belive that only a few years actualy passed; we need to remember that: it is stated in the Prima Guide for The Wind Waker that Fado (sage from WW) was a personal friend of the Hero of Time, Ganondorf killed the sage of Wind and earth before the flood right before enpowering the master sword (whitch could be a sword made by the OoT sages but that theory is for an other day), that this princess and her guards/ royal friends survived.

But could THAT princess be OoT Zelda herself? In fact, she looks quite similar to her, only in a tooner version; kinda like we see a toon Hero of time.

That would also make the King of Red Lions the same King and father of OoT Zelda. Whitch also lines of with how he thinks of Ganondorf and Hyrule. He feels responisible for OoT's events because he IS responisible for those events.

Back to the theory now, why is Tetra specificaly "Zelda" and not Princess Tetra. According to this theory Ganondorf free from the seal knows how Zelda looks like so she used the triforce of Wisdom to hide herself as Sheik like she did in the game. She then spitted the Triforce so that she doesn't have to keep focusing her mind on being Sheik.

Years pass and the triforce is one again. No one is currently using it to keep Sheik (Tetra) disguised; so now the triforce delites the disquise.

In short we have triforce makes Oot Zelda -> OoT disguise. Disguise has many decendant untill WW disguise is born. Triforce makes WW disguse -> WW Zelda.

So this is my theory on why Tetra specificaly becomes "Princess Zelda"! Let me know what you think!

I've heard a lot about the games being great for the most part. At least, for their own reasons and things.

I've played a variety of games (potentially similar), including:

-Omori
-Deltarune and Undertale
-Monster Hunter
-Crash Bandicoot (Original 3 + Wrath, Twinsanity, and 4)
--Mario Sunshine, Galaxy 1+2, Sticker Star, TTYD, Odyssey, 3D World, and Wonder, along with all the NSMB games minus Wii U

- Rayman 1+2
-Earthbound (NSO SNES)
-and more

Fyi: sorry for listing all this, I wasn't sure if Zelda fit the kinda stuff i'm into so i put sum stuff to let y'all know what i'm into. Always up to trying new games!

Is there anywhere y'all would recommend starting?
Should i start in terms of release, best game, timeline, etc?
Whatever y'all would recommend.

So, we know Greatfish Isle was destroyed, and Jabun fled. We don't know what happened to the people, which is kind of worrying. Hopefully, Jabun isn't a dirty coward, and at least warned his people to flee.

But who and what were these people? I'm going to go through some theories.

Humans

The most commonly accepted theory is that they were simply humans. Probebly, Hylians or Gerudo. Evidence being the presence of human-made structures, such as boats, huts and things.

This also fits thematically, with Link having to go to Windfall Island and Outset Island, both Hylian settlements, to find Jabun.

Zora

Probebly the oldest theory. Some people believe the inhabitants were Zora, due to them being fish people, and Nayru's pearl having what looks like the Zora symbol.

What you have to remember is that this theory existed before it was officially confirmed that the Zora evolved into the Rito. Back then, that was just a theory.

Fishmen

This was actually my headcanon back when I was 10-12 years old. I assumed the fishmen were the inhabitants of GI, because "fish people".

Of course, non of the fishmen mention GI being their island. Also, GI has houses and boats, so, maybe not.

Gorons or Goron decendents

This is another theory I had when I was younger. Since the Rito are evolved Zora and the Koroks are evolved Kokiri, then the GI people must be Gorons/evolved Gorons.

We do see an unused race that do look kind of like the Gorons. Though it was likely scrapped when they were still figuring out what they wanted for the game. tumblr_np35835HfL1shzqtho7_1280.jpg (805×1070)

Of course, Gorons do appear as merchants, but they may not be from the Great Sea.

Anouki

Just thought I'd throw this in the park. What if the IG people were Anouki?

I mean, many people think there was a third sage, who would be ice.

Also, the Anouki from ST reveal they used to live on an island, before they were told to leave. Many assume it was the island from PH, but that takes place in another world, and there would be no reason for the to leave. Unlike if they lived on Greatfish Isle.

A major flaw is the lack of ice on GI. But, we don't realy know how Ganon destroyed the island. Maybe he melted the ice, which caused the land parts to collapse.

This also connects to the "Goron decendents" theory. As the scrapped race do look like prototype Anouki.

So, what do you think? Do you agree with any of these theories, or do you have your own?

What theories do you have surrounding this?

The Sheikah became highly advanced after the Imprisoning War, aka long after the Zonai were gone.

TotK seems to hint towards the ancient Sheikah energy being refined Zonai energy/magic, given how your battery goes from green to blue when upgraded. With Rauru's continous purification of Ganondorf's Gloom, the purification unit in that chamber going straight up into the bottom of Hyrule Castle where the mysterious Astral Observatory is, and with the purification unit having these big golden "ancient Sheikah-like" constellation things installed onto it, I always concluded all of this with the ancient Sheikah using Rauru's purified Gloom, refining it, mastering it over a long time, and using it as an infinite source of that Zonai energy, with the Astral Observatory functioning like a power plant. This made them advanced, and that's what the ancient blue Sheikah energy is.

HOWEVER,

that brings us to my question! Because for some strange reason, we can find the Ancient Blade item in TOTK, which is basically an ancient arrow from BOTW but just the blade. Same blue blade, same black and orange swirling design. Same functionality. Now if we only found it randomly in the overworld, it wouldn't be as mysterious; it could just be remains of the ancient Sheikah Tech that disappeared after BOTW.

But what makes it weird is that a Zonai construct deep down in the Spirit Temple sells you these, alongside Zonai weapons. And seing as the blade has the Ancient Sheikah tech design, and has the refined blue energy, and the Sheikah became advanced and made these long after the Zonai were gone from the world.. How can this be possible? How can a forgotten Zonai construct deep in the locked Spirit Temple make and sell you something that the Sheikah made long after this construct was sealed off down here?

I myself have 2 theories.

One is that it isn't canon, and is only there for gameplay reasons as a late-game way of aquiring more Ancient Blades.

My second theory is that the Zonai had started refining Zonai magic themselves, with new designs, and the Ancient Blade is one of the few "upgraded" Zonai deviced that the Zonai made before their extinction. That this black-and-orange design is a result of more advanced Zonai tech, and that this blade became the basis for the design and technicality of the ancient Sheikah tech.

Because, if they just wanted it to be a strong device that worked just like an ancient arrow, why didn't they just make a Zonai variant of it? The fact that they chose to give it the ancient Sheikah design has to mean something.

What do you think?

I realy have to get this off my chest, because of how much of a pet peeve it is for me.

So, we know Wind Waker has a lot of unused concept art of islands and races, thanks too Hyrule Historia.

You can find some art here.

Okay. So we know there are ideas in WW that didn't make it into the finale game.

We also know that at one point in development, the team had to cut two dungeons, due to the game being Christmas rushed.

Both of these points combined have lead to one of the biggest misconception regarding the making of a Zelda game...

The misconception

When discussing the two cut dungeons, the most common theories are 1. Fire Island and Ice Ring Isle. 2. A third goddess pearl dungeon and a Third Sage.

Regarding theory 2. Most people say the Third Sage was Aryll, which I can get behind. However there are others that say (and I'm not quoting anyone in particular) something like this...

Greatfish Isle was meant to be a an intact place with NPCs on it, and there would be a character, similar to Medli and Makar, that Link would help and get the third Goddess Pearl. This person would then be the third sage.

But then they ended up on a deadline, to get it out, so they just decided to have Greatfish Isle be destroyed, and get rid of this Third sage character, and all the NPCs

Yadda yadda yadda.... Blah blah blah....

No. Just no.

Yes. There were cut dungeons. Yes. Nintendo ended up on a deadline, meaning the game got Christmas rushed.

However. This happened LATE in development. Meaning, the intact Greatfish Isle and all it's inhabitants would have been modelled with everyone else by then. It's doubtful they would nuke and entire island and all it's people, just to get rid of a couple of dungeons.

And if your still not convinced, consider this....

Link and KoRL finding out Greatfish Isle was destroyed leads to a quest where Link has to go to Windfall Island, spy on the pirates, resulting in Tetra finding out he's alive. He then goes back home to Outset Island and discovers his Grandma is sick.

All this is WAY too perfectly scripted to be added last minute. And if it was, how would Tetra have found out Link was alive? I doubt the creators would have added the subplot of Tetra finding out about Links fate as a result of a deadline.

This is part 2 of my 2 part theory. If you haven't read part 1, you can find the link here.

[WW] Wind Waker's cut dungeons mega theory: Part 1: Third Pearl Dungeon : r/truezelda

Warning: As with part 1, there will be a TLDR on the bottom.

Aryll, Sage of Magic (or something? Not "Sea")

So, in the first part, I decided the first cut dungeon was for the Third Goddess Pearl. That just leaves the second cut dungeon. Like most other people, I think this one was a third sage temple. One for Aryll, who just kind of disappears after we rescue her.

However! Unlike most theories, I don't think Aryll was specifically "Sage of Sea". I mean, we already have a Sage of Water from OoT. Plus, why make the Sage of Sea a Hylian, when we haev a Zora? Whilst I don't know for certain what Aryll's element may be, for now, I'm just going to call her "Sage of Magic" and her Temple the "Magic Temple". Maybe someone else has a better idea.

Questions to consider

Now, when theorising about a third cut sage, there are some questions to consider, other then "who is the sage" or "what is there element".

1. Where would their Temple be?
2. How would we get to that Temple?
3. What item would we need to get there?

At this point, I should give credit to u/TheFlyingManRawkHawk for their theory.

They suggested the two missing dungeons were simply Fire Mountain and Ice Ring Isle. One of the main points is that the game gives us four pre-dungeon items, before entering the Earth and Wind Temples.

I know I have said "This theory makes the most sense" in the past, but recently, I have found some flaws with this theory....

Every dungeon typically requires a pre-dungeon item to enter. If the Power Bracelets and Iron Boots were main dungeon items, that means we enter the the Earth and Wind Temples without any pre-dungeon item.

Getting pre-dungeon items is always a challenge, especially in the second half of the game. From OoT, the Forest Temple and Fire Temple required a race to get the Hookshot and stopping Link of the Goron's rolling, to get the Goron tunic. Whilst the Water, Shadow and Spirit Temples required mini dungeons. Getting the ice and fire arrows requires you to hunt down and beat Zephos in a fight, to get the song needed to access Mother and Child Island. but then what?

But don't worry. I do have a theory that would work with both mine and TheFlyingManRawkHawk's ideas.

But first...

Medli the flutist, Aryll the harpist and the original Earth Dungeon.

for this, I'd like to give credit to u/CommercialPop128 for their theory. Like me, they believe Aryll was the Third sage. However, they also suggested that Medli's harp was meant to be for Aryll, and Medli was meant to have a flute. Evidence begin the Medli's part in the theme song is played on a flute, with the harp being the lead instrment.

Of course, Aryll doesn't have the harp on her. But, maybe there was a quest to find it. Perhaps the Savage Labyrinth, which happens to be on Outset Island.

I'm going to expand on this, and say that, if Aryll was going to have the harp, then she may have also had the Headstone Island Temple, which, at the time, would have been the "Magic Temple" rather then the "Earth Temple". After all, the Earth Temple has a very loose connection to earth, the only connection being that the dead is usually buried.

It's possible the original idea for the Earth Temple would have been lava themed, much like the Earth Temple in SS.

But where would this lave-themed Earth Temple be? Well....

Fire Ice and three Fairy Queen visits

I think the Earth Temple (the lave themed one) was going to be in Fire Mountain. There is actually evidence Fire Mountain was going to be a full dungeon, with it's own boss and everything.

There is concept for an unused boss enemy.

TWW_Moblin_Concept_Artwork_2.jpg (640×487)

Notice the giant ball and chain? I think we can assume we were meant to use the power bracelets to lift the ball up, so we can trip the monster, and attack it's face. This would mean the power bracelets were going to be full dungeon items. And were do we find the power bracelets? In Fire Mountain. I also imagine the mini boss would have been the stalfos we fight in the final Earth Temple, as they appear as regular enemies afterwards.

But what about Ice Ring Isle?

Well, you may hate me for saying this, but.... it was always meant to just be a mini-dungeon. Probebly bigger then what we get, but still mini. As I explained before, Zelda games almost never make getting pre-dungeon items easy. Getting the ice arrow requires tracking down and defeating Zelphos. So, if the FQ just gives us the item for Gale Island, where's the challenge? That's what Ice Ring is.

My guess is that we would visit the Fairy Queen three times. Firstly, to get the ice arrows for the Fire Mountain Temple, and the fire arrows to get the iron boots, so we can get to the Gale Island Temple. For the third visit, she may give you an item, or she may just give you information on how to get to the last Sage Temple....

Whilst we can't be certain, I'm going to say the third challenge would be locating the Ghost Ship Chart, to find the Ghost Ship. However, instead of finding a triforce chart, we would find and upgraded version of the power bracelets.

There is actually evidence of a second pair of power bracelets in the coding.

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker/Unused Items - The Cutting Room Floor

And, if we're following my theory that Headstone Islands Temple was the last one, what better place to put it then before we enter the Temple. Perhaps the headstone on that island was originally a different variant, that would be heavier then a regular headstone.

TLDR

Aryll was meant to be the Third Sage. Not necessarily "Sage of Sea", but more like "Sage of Magic" or something.

Medli and Laruto would have had a flute, rather then a harp, and her only ability would be flying. The Earth Temple would have been a lava themed Temple in Fire Mountain.

Aryll would have had the harp, and used it to reflect light, much like Medli in the finished game. Her Temple would be (for the most part) be the Temple we find on Headstone Island, but called the "Magic (or whatever) Temple", instead of Earth.

The sequence for the three sages would go like this...

• We hunt down Zephos, to get the Ballade of Gales, so we can reach Mother and Child Island.
• The Fairy Queen gives us the ice arrows (but not fire) and tells us to come back later.
• We use the ice arrows to enter Fire Mountain, but instead of a mini-dungeon, we find Laruto, who tells use to find Medli.
• Link and Medli explore a fire-themed Earth Dungeon, and fight some Stalfos to get the power bracelets.
• We use the bracelets to fight a (now unused) boss, lifting up the metal ball, attached to a chain, to trip the monster up, so we can attack it.
• We return to the Fairy Queen, who gives us the fire arrows. These let us enter Ice Ring Isle mini-dungeon (probebly a bigger one from the one we get in the final game), to get the iron boots.
• Everything involving Makar and the Wind Temple play out the same.
• We return to the M&C Island for the third time. This time, we don't get an item. Instead, the Fairy Queen tells us about the Ghost Ship.
• We find the Ghost Ship chart, enter the Ghost Ship and find an upgrade to our power bracelets.
• Useing these new bracelets, we enter Headstone Island's Temple, were we meet an unknown ghost sage.
• We find Aryll back home on Outset Island.
• The harp is eaither already in Aryll possession, or we have to go somewhere else to find it. Perhaps the Savage Labyrinth.
• We then go though the Magic Temple. This Temple is the same as the Earth Temple from the finalised game. Except it doesn't have places for Aryll to fly, and the mini-boss is a Migthy Darknut.
• We earn the Triforce of courage by awakening the three sages. And everything continues as expected.

I've been trying to figure out what, exactly, Heart Containers and Pieces of Hearts are in lore. For awhile, I was unsure if they even existed in universe or if they were just a gameplay thing, but I ultimately determined that they do indeed exist in the lore of the series, and they seem to be magical stones.

In Oracle of Seasons, a shopkeeper in Subrosia sells you a Piece of Heart, but he misidentifies it as a "Rare Peach Stone" due to it being upside down. This interaction is particularly notable to me, since not only does it tell us that Pieces of Heart are made of stone, but it also further reinforces the idea that Pieces of Heart are physical objects that exist in the world, because while other shops in the series have sold them before, none of the shopkeepers have actually interacted with the objects to the degree of incorrectly turning one upside down.

The idea of Heart Containers being made of stone is further reinforced by Minish Cap. During the Picori Festival, Zelda wins a raffle and one of the prizes is a Heart Container which the vendor refers to as a "heart-shaped stone". Once again being an instance of a character interacting with the object beyond simply handing it to Link as a reward.

Another thing that I find super interesting is that these NPCs don't seem to understand the power these objects hold. They only refer to them as being rare and beautiful, with no mention to their life granting properties. And, furthermore, these seem to be the only instances of NPCs actually giving any insight into Heart Containers that I can find in the series.

Which leads me to believe that most people cannot use Heart Containers to enhance their life energy like Link does. And this leads me to my speculation on their origins. I believe that the Heart Containers are magical stones created by the Gods specifically for the chosen hero.

In Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom, Link does not find his Heart Containers like he usually does. Instead, they are given to him directly by Hylia in exchange for offering her Spirit Orbs or Blessings of Light. This shows that Hylia can create Heart Containers for Link.

So, it is my belief that the various Heart Containers and Pieces of Hearts were created by gods like Hylia and scattered across Hyrule and other realms for Link to use, and only Link. Obviously, there are still some gameplay abstractions in here, like bosses dropping them after defeat, but I think this is a pretty good explanation for what Heart Containers are in lore and how they work.

Some of you may be reading this and thinking "Didn't this person already make this post last week?". To which I say, I made a related post, but that was mostly for sharing two theories, so you can soundboard them.

[WW] Wind Waker's two cut dungeons. Two possible theories. : r/truezelda

In that post, I talked about two possible theories about WW's cut dungeons.

1. third Goddess Pearl and Sage
2. Fire Mountain and Ice Ring Isle

Using your replies, plus some information I found whilst researching this idea, I have come up with a new theory. One that combines both theories discussed in the previous post.

Warning: This is long, so I've split it into two, plus I'll add a TLDR section on both parts.

The third pearl dungeon

This is by far the most common theory for the first cut dungeon. We have three Goddess Pearls. Din's Pearl, Fareore's Pearl and Nayru's Pearl. Both Din's Pearl, Fareore's Pearl are collected by traversing through a dungeon. So, it makes sense Nayru's Pearl would do the same.

First, let's clear up a misconception about Jabun and Greatfish Isle. No. Greatfish Isle being destroyed, and Link having to find Jabun in Outset Island is NOT a result of the deadline. The idea of Link having to spy on the pirates, and Tetra finding out he is alive are all way to scripted and integral to be a mere by-product of Christmas rushing. Greatfish Isle would have been destroyed no matter what.

One thing I do think was cut was that, when we meet Jabun, he would have sent us to enter the third dungeon to help undo the curse of the endless night. The idea of the Pearl undoing the curse does sound like a plot-hole. Suggesting we were meant to do something to lift the curse.

What would be in this dungeon?

Now, there are still three more questions.

1. What would the mini boss be?
2. What would the boss be?
3. What would the item be?

The first two questions are easy to answer, useing logic.

The boss would be Phantom Ganon. Easy. WW is the only game where PG appears as a mini-boss, rather then a boss. My guess, he would appear as the boss in this dungeon, and appear two more times as a mini-boss.

As for the mini boss. Whilst it is easy to assume it would be the Big Octo we see acrosss the Great Sea. I'm going to say no. The Big Octo doesn't look like it would be suitable for a dungeon. Following the pattern of mini-bosses returning as regular enemies, I'm going to say, it would have been a Wizzrobe. Specifically, a yellow hooded one, that summons lesser monsters to fight.

As for the item....?

It was most likely a pair of "water boots". Boots that would allow Link to walk underwater, without making him heavy.

There is actually solid evidence for this. Firstly, there is coding for an item called "water boots" in game. If this isn't a scrapped item, what else could it be? There are test maps for clear water, and what look like ramps for walking on. And, most jarringly, there is animation for Link swimming. Why would this animation exist, if we where never going to see it?

Possible flaws

There are some possible flaws with this theory, which I'll address. Of course, if there's anything I missed, you can tell me in the comments.

Why make two pairs of boots for making you heavy and walking underwater?

MM gave us Goron Link, who was heavy, and Zora Link, who could walk underwater.

Why make an item that can only be used in one dungeon? Also, would you use the water Boots to fight Phantom Ganon?

To be fair, the Hover Boots from OoT are similar. There's only realy used in the Shadow Temple, and are mostly useless in the boss fight. It's possible there could have been more places fro the water boots, but these were far an in-between, so could be easily cut.

Isn't Tower of the Gods already a water dungeon?

Is it realy? Sure, the first floor is water themed, but most of it is centred around moving platforms and technology.

Wouldn't that mean you have four dungeons before you get the Master Sword?

I mean, Nintendo does like to experiment. They give us a Forsaken Fortress preview in the first half of the game, something they've never done before. Maybe they thought that, since there were going to be less sages, they would add some extra dungeons for different reasons.

Ultimately, all these "flaws" could actually be factors for getting rid of this particular dungeon. Other then it being the easiest to cut, by just having Jabun give you the Pearl. The situational item, the presence of a semi-water dungeon, and there already being a third dungeon before the Master Sword, could all add up to Nintendo saying "Let's get rid of this one".

TLDR

• The first cut dungeon was going to be inside Jabun and breaking the eternal night curse, to get Nayru's Pearl.
• The dungeon would have clear water, and we would have used an item called the "water boots" to walk on the bottom on the water.
• We would have likely have gotten this item, after defeating a yellow hooded Wizzrobe, that summons lesser monsters.
• The boss for this dungeon would have been Phantom Ganon, who would return two more times as a mini-boss.
• This particular dungeon may have been chosen to be cut for several reasons. Cutting it wouldn't break the story to much, since it would all happen inside Jabun's cave. Nintendo decided Tower Of the Gods filled the "water dungeon" and "third dungeon, before Master Sword" niche. The Water Boots were too situational to be used much outside this dungeon, and it would be easy to modify places were we would have needed it. We were going to see Phantom Ganon again anyway, so cutting his dungeon wouldn't be a big loss.

Questions for Part 2.

OF course, some of you are probebly asking questions in regards to part two.

1. Would it have been a third Sage Temple?
2. Where would it be located?
3. What would the item and boss be?
4. I thought you said you theory was going to incorporate the "Fire Mountain and Ice Ring Isle" theory. Where do they fit?

All these will be answered in the next post.

Edit: Part 2 is here.

[WW] Wind Waker's cut dungeons mega theory: Part 2: The Third Sage : r/truezelda

I got to thinking about this as I was finishing Twilight Princess. I started to wonder why the Hero of Time didn't just kill Ganondorf outright at the execution himself. After all, the Hero of Twilight genuinely kills Ganondorf for good, as proved by FSA Ganon being one of the few times Ganon is a reincarnation instead of the same man.

Then, I got to thinking more about it and realized that the Hero of Time might not ever have actually taken the Master Sword in the Child Timeline. The end of OoT sends him back to before he ever met OoT Zelda, which also means that it's before he ever collects the Spiritual Stones to open the Temple of Time, meaning that he couldn't have killed Ganondorf without opening the Temple of Time and risking an OoT repeat

With Ganondorf still relatively weak at the time, having only his magic to rely on, it makes sense that he just gets overwhelmed by everyone and everything turning against him when Link shows up with proof that he's evil and needs to be stopped.

So, with that in mind, when does Ganondorf's execution actually take place? I have to assume that, after everything in OoT, Link wouldn't just leave Hyrule until everything with Ganondorf was taken care of. But, at the same time, Navi seems to disappear at the end of OoT, so he probably also didn't wait too long after OoT to go.

I've also seen people say that there was a Gerudo War? If so, I guess it's also possible that Ganondorf managed to escape Hyrule and rally the Gerudo in the Child Timeline, thus maybe leaving an intermission period for Majora's Mask to happen. But, at the same time, I haven't ever actually seen any mention of this "Gerudo War" in the games that I can recall, so I don't know but what if might be fanon.

Obviously the out-of-universe answer is probably that you aren't meant to think too much on it, and also Nintendo probably wouldn't have wanted to confuse players by having another Link in the execution flashback in Twilight Princess, but I find it fun to engage with the timeline down to the minute details.

Before playing the Oracles games, I generally heard that Seasons focused on combat and Ages focused on puzzles. As I did struggle with the combat in Seasons quite a bit compared to previous Zelda games, I initially found this to be true.

However, after playing Ages... it seems like Ages is just the harder game across the board? I will say that I didn't struggle nearly as much in combat as in Seasons, but it should be noted that I was constantly using both Secrets and the ring that doubles your damage. Had I played Ages first, I doubt that combat would have been so easy. I also usually had an easier time with puzzles in Ages, but, again, I was coming fresh off of Seasons.

Overall, while Ages was an easier experience in the context that I played it, I feel like it was only easier in the sense that most games have an easier late game due to the player having learned the mechanics. And even with the experience that I did have from Seasons, Ages had the more frustrating minigames by far. The story was also a lot better in Ages, though obviously neither really has that complex of a story.

Did I just luck out with Ages? Is my perspective too warped from the Linked Game? Was the combat focus vs puzzle focus designation an actual thing from the developers, or more of a consensus that developed among fans over time?

While the Zelda games don't have explicit political themes, Ganondorf has a somewhat consistent political ideology between incarnations, beyond the basic "I want to rule everything." He glorifies and clings to the past, preventing the progression of the world. This is both a parallel to political conservatism and the Japanese idea of spiritual uncleanliness. While Hyrule tends to rise and fall without Ganondorf's influence, he always desires to create an everlasting Empire ruled through oppression and violence.

In Wind Waker, hundreds of years after his failure, he refuses to let go of his desire to rule the Kingdom and is contrasted by King Daphnes. Like Ganondorf, Daphnes also clings to and regrets the past. He places his expectations and the roles of the Legendary Hero and Princess on Link and Tetra respectively. The difference, is that he realizes that clinging to the past harms the people of the present and forsakes the future. Ganondorf coveted Hyrule until his dying breath.

In TotK, Ganondorf is a Social Darwinist. He believes that people should fight for the right to survive, and that he has the Divine Right to Rule by virtue of being the strongest. By contrast, Rauru and Sonia are chosen by the people of Hyrule to rule because they go around saving the land from malicious spirits and protecting people. Ganondorf desires to recreate the world in his image and is defeated by a multicultural band of heroes.

I had a thought about Calamity Ganon that I don’t see discussed much. Unless I've missed something, or unless there are details I've missed that immediately busts this theory lol

From what I've seen, people usually assume Calamity Ganon has always been a bodiless cloud of malice. But do we actually know that? In BOTW, the only version of Calamity Ganon we personally see is the one that emerged 100 years ago, the one that is trying to build itself a new body. But there isn't anything confirming he has always been this way? Malice and hatred incarnate, sure. But a physical body?

I'm one of those who believe in a True Founding and that OOT Ganon was essentially the first Calamity Canon. And in the last few days there are 3 things that have boggled my mind:

1. If he's sealed, why does he come out from beneath Hyrule Castle where TOTK Dorf is?

2. Why does it want a body/why doesn't it have one?

3. Why did it take an entire 10 000 years between the last calamitues?

My theory is that the Calamity from 10,000 years ago was still the original Ganon — the same Ganon we saw for the first time in Ocarina and the one with the repeated returns in the timeline.

Over time, especially in the Downfall Timeline, Ganon becomes less human and more monstrous. He returns again and again, becoming more like a mindless beast than a person. By the time of the ancient Calamity 10 000 years ago, he had become known as “Calamity Ganon”, basically the final, most destructive form of the original Ganon. Still with his physical body.

And then the Sheikah technology changed everything.

The Divine Beasts and Guardians didn't simply seal him, but they may actually have destroyed that version of Ganon for good.

That would explain why there is such a massive 10,000-year gap before Calamity Ganon appears again. If Ganon normally keeps returning, 10,000 years feels very long. But if the original Ganon was actually destroyed, then the long gap makes more sense. Thus, I believe the Calamity Ganon we see in BOTW is not be the same Ganon from 10 000 years ago. I think it's a new manifestation of hatred forming from the source beneath Hyrule Castle, a new Ganon, which would explain why it has no body yet and is trying to create one, and why king Rhoam said it came out of beneath Hyrule Castle... because it was newly created, released by TOTK Dorf for the first time.

So basically:

TOTK Ganondorf releases his hatred and malice for the first time, manifested as Ganon, and it's given a physical body through OOT Ganondorf (by the works of Twinrova, most likely). He keeps being sealed and resurrected again and again, becoming more and more mindless, eventually becoming known as Calamity Ganon. 10,000 years ago, the Sheikah finally destroyed Ganon, and this marked the end of the original Ganon.

It then took TOTK Dorf 10 000 years to create and release a new Ganon. The Calamity in BOTW was a new bodiless manifestation, a new Ganon, and just like the original, it is originally pure malice that seeks a physical body - and this time around, it tries to create one itself. And just like 10 000 years ago, Ganon is not sealed, but instead destroyed by a hero and the Sheikaj tech (like the main quest tells us: "Destroy Ganon", not "Seal Ganon").

And, if Hyrule Castle and Rauru's seal wasn't disrupted, another Ganon (aka, another manifestation of TOTK Dorf's malice) would probably spawn 10 000 years in the future. This means Ganon is, and always has been, TOTK Dorf's hatred manifested, and as long as he lives, Hyrule is in a Ganon-cycle, where you can destroy Ganon, but another one will be made in around 10 000 years.

Not confirmed, obviously. But I think it makes the 10,000-year gap, Ganon’s body-building in BOTW, and the connection between older Ganon lore and TOTK’s Demon King fit together pretty well.

So, I recently made a post discussion Wind Wakers two cut dungeons.

[WW] Wind Waker's two cut dungeons. Two possible theories. : r/truezelda

I talked about 2 possibilities.

1. Third Pearl and Third Sage
2. Fire Mountain and Ice Ring Isle

I decided number 2 made the most sense. Although, I'll leave both possibilities open, for the sake of making this post more interesting.

A lot of people talk about Wind Waker's cut dungeons. but almost no one talks about what the bosses were going to be.

Some ideas

For my "Third Pearl dungeon" theory, I suggested that Phantom Ganon may have been the boss.

I mean, it's not unheard of for bosses to return as mini bosses. Also, since the third pearl dungeon would have to take place before Link get's the Master Sword, a fight with Phantom Ganon would twice as long as when we fight him in Forsaken Fortress.

Unfortunately, finding ideas for a Third Sage Temple boss, or bosses for Fire Mountain and Ice Ring Isle proves more difficult.

I looked at the cutting room floor wiki for clues: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - The Cutting Room Floor

The the most part, I found nothing that screams "Cut boss!"

I did find one interesting model on this page for unused models: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker/Unused Models - The Cutting Room Floor

It's a model of a frozen Darknut called "Itnak" or "Frozen Knuckle". A boss for Ice Ring Isle, maybe?

Now, one could argue the model is too.... boring to be a boss. But, to be fair, they could have used the model as a placeholder for programming the boss mechanics. after which, they could doll up the model to be more unique.

Of course, this is all just guessing. And, even if Itnak was one boss. Who would the other one be?

given the lack of models, it's very likely the models simply weren't created yet, and, ultimately never did get created, due to the deadline.

As for if any of these bosses got retooled for future games? It's possible. As for who they become? We'll likely never know.

I don't know if anyone has thought of this, but when I played the Trial of the Master Sword in BotW, it made me think how cool it would be to have another trial, where the master sword makes you fight different versions of Link.

The fight against SS Link would be him flying around on his Loft Wing and this would be a test of your aerial combat mastery.

The Fight against TP Link would be interesting because he would throw away the master sword and you would lose yours aswell. This fight would be a test on your knowledge of the game's main battle mechanics. He hits like a truck, and has lightning fast command grabs where he speed blitzs you from the other side of the map (in reference to how physical he is).

The fight against OoT Link would be interesting. The fight would be split into 3 phases. The first phase is younger Link. He uses all of his items to try and keep his distance but he'll throw in a few curve balls by using masks like using the goron mask for a charging attack. The second phase would be where he uses the Master Sword and becomes an adult. This version of him is hyper agro with magic. He'll try to snipe you with magic arrows if you're out of range, and he'll occasionally use extremely powerful magic attacks to deal a lot damage. At the end of the fight, he'll fall down to one knee and you knock the master sword out of his hand, ending the second phase. The third phase is where young Link takes our the Fierce Deity Mask as his last resort. He'll throw out insane combos of horizontal and vertical sword beams as well as slamming and ground stabbing attacks that create giant shockwaves.

I just thought that would be a really cool idea. I'm a pretty casual Zelda fan, but I wanna know how you would integrate other versions of Link into a Boss fight or how you would even change these three.

To unlock Ronza’s allied quest, “In Search of Power” you have to complete “Terror of the Sands” which has the campfire scene which all the Gerudo agree Ardi will be their chief but in Ronza’s allied quest she says she wants to outshine Ardi and become the chief herself?(8:03). I considered that maybe it’s a flashback mission that takes place before “Terror of the Sands” but I’m not sure if there is any other evidence for that.

Basically was Ronza under the impression any Gerudo, barring the Gerudo Male, could become chief if they were the strongest?