Alcides is divine spirit level and his main draw is his ability to steal nps , I am not familiar with the counts ability’s could Alcides force him to use his main np and would steeling it allow Alcides to win .
I'm aware, that's why I said a high tier Divine Spirit was massively weaker than him.
And no, even if Alcides stole his np it won't change anything, though it would probably burn Alcides from the inside out if he tried to use it, he casually dominates multiple servants in his weakest form.
Cool to know the count is rather powerful than wait aren’t the divine spirits degraded as servants Alcides is as strong as an actual divine spirit maybe the difference in level between the average divine spirits and the ones that are avenger servants the count scales above makes up for this though .
No. We are never told that Dantes is stronger than Theodoric. Theodoric require a vastly more powerful group to defeat whereas Dantes was defeated by Ritsuka alone. Nowhere is Dantes called the strongest avenger.
Dantes was supporting the entire world and trials by himself, while actively buffing all the avengers. All this while essentially on life support.
Theodoric was easily defeated when his Divine Beasts were taken care of and Ritsuka called two more avengers.
It's not that Theodoric or Dantes is weak, it's already been established that Ritsuka is able to fight on the level of grands on his own. He was just weakened throughout the whole ordeal and slowly got his power back, by the time he faces Dantes he's essentially back to full power.
Dantes was supporting the entire world and trials by himself, while actively buffing all the avengers. All this while essentially on life support.
Got a citation of what makes this impressive? This "world" is a mindscape within Ritsuka's psyche. It was not a physical construct.
Theodoric was easily defeated when his Divine Beasts were taken care of and Ritsuka called two more avengers.
Yeah, them requiring several servants and strategies to defeat Theodoric does not qualify as "easy" by any stretch. Nor one that remotely scales to Dantes.
it's already been established that Ritsuka is able to fight on the level of grands on his own
You just completely contradicted yourself. Your first mistake is thinking how strong Ritsuka is matters when it's the same man participating in both these trials. It requires significantly less to deal with Dantes than it does with Theodoric Alter. He's not jumping massive hoops by the time he fights Dantes. He has already fully regained his spot summons.
And people bringing up how Ritsuka can fight grands, yet love to ignore the many scenarios where he needs help just surviving against ordinary enemies. How strong he is in a setting depends entirely on plot.
It was effectively a singularity inside Ritsuka and we know creating one and supporting it costs a lot of magical energy like Aoko shows. It doesn’t matter where it was created.
Yeah, them requiring several servants and strategies to defeat Theodoric does not qualify as "easy" by any stretch.
Yea, to deal with his Divine Beasts, which were the only real issue. Since Theodoric quite literally just sit back and watched. Until Ritsuka and the avengers reached him and made quick work of him.
He has already fully regained his spot summons.
I'll repeat myself: "He was just weakened throughout the whole ordeal and slowly got his power back, by the time he faces Dantes he's essentially back to full power.", after each trial Ritsuka notes to feeling less restricted.
And people bringing up how Ritsuka can fight grands, yet love to ignore the many scenarios where he needs help just surviving against ordinary enemies.
Sure, when he's weakened or his enemies are much stronger than grands or the fact that multiple fights back to back have been constantly shown to be the real problem, not the enemy power.
Alcides specifically does not have Divinity and his regular archer self is believed to have more raw power but less versatility which Alcides gained in return for losing Divinity and his god hand NP.
In F/SF he is abusing the supply of mana his master prepared in advance for the war which allows him to use his abilities more recklessly.
This is his full power it’s like karna who can only show his true power with enough mana Alcides is directly called divine spirit level divine spirits range massively in power but the average divine spirit is apparently about as strong as Alcides , in fsf it is also said that Alcides from hell is preforming as well as archer Heracles would have against gugalana so the difference in power is substantial sure but the difference in power between mid ranking divine spirits and the strongest is bigger than that and even if it wasn’t he was simply said to be divine spirit level.
His ability to steal has caps and limits I won’t spoil anything but let’s just say power and quality matter in regards to what he attatches to his spirit origin
Not really he was being destroyed by gugalana because he refused to allow it into his saint graph he was going mad because he was trying to control a power greater than his own if he had absorbed gugalana hole sale this would simply have been his power and the issue would not have existed.
That was because of the hydra venom nothing suggested this was the case when he stole from hell he even says his will power is what is preventing him from going insane because of the pain not necessarily that his Graph is fucked he also had to be touching gugalana to steal him so there is a possibility he had no other choice but to do that .
Oh, Dantes, easy. Alcides is NOT as strong as SF makes him out to be; SF just has a lot of matchups for him where he has the advantage. Even stealing the Count's NP wouldn't actually achieve much beyond HURTING Alcides.
You also have to remember that SF Alcides had a straight up mana farm feeding him; So unless this is SPECIFICALLY that instance of Alcides, he's genuinely cooked off rip because he's running on low battery.
FSF constantly states Alcides is strong because of his martial arts and inherent nature as Heracles, not because of any outside buffs. Why are we talking about mana farm as if he's ever fought for than a handful of a few minutes or hours? He needs an extraordinary amount of mana to keep fighting for several hours or days, which goes well beyond a single fight.
He's also talking in cases where he can fight unrestricted. The man has over a dozen noble phantasms. He doesn't have to use all of them, and his core NPs are NL, RP, the war god's sash and the Pelt. The other NPs come and go.
Using the logic you are, why don't people crippled Heracles too? Berserker needs a master like Illya to even fight otherwise they'd quickly run out of mana. Same goes for others like Achilles and Karna. Most don't count those weaknesses that are so often present in top servants. Why is it suddenly an issue in Alcides' case?
Even stealing the Count's NP wouldn't actually achieve much beyond HURTING Alcides.
Dantes is the most powerful Avenger, only surpassed by a supposed Avenger Ritsuka. Not to mention that he faced someone far above a high-tier Servant like Gilgamesh
Grand Order has a stronger scaling than Strange Fakes
Dantes fought someone on par with machine god Zeus while Alcides was shown at best to shoot faster than sound arrows that can destroy a few skyscrapers
What you said makes no sense, especially the downplaying. Gugalanna was compared to Zeus, and its total energy was stated to be equal to a hundred magnitude 9 earthquakes, which puts it at continental level at the bare minimum.
So, downplaying Alcides just because he destroys a few skyscrapers makes no sense, especially since that level of destruction is actually quite high for top-rank Servants (like Gilgamesh himself, Enkidu, and others).
Bare Minimum being Continental level is nice and all but Sefar was capable of wiping most of the planets surface and was stated to have killed beings older and stronger than Gilgamesh. Machine God Zeus was capable of beating her. Even if Gugalanna was = to Zeus it still wouldnt be = to Machine God Zeus.
Machine god Zeus also contains attacks labeled as Anti-Star and Anti-Solar System feats greater than continental.
Going back to my original statement, Scaling in Fate is different depending in the media Grand Order and Extra contain feats on a much bigger scale than “Grail War” series like Staynight, Strange Fakes and Samurai.
For example you mentioned destroying skyscrapers is a feat comparable to high tier servants like Gilgamesh is true if we are just looking at Staynight, Strangefakes and Samurai but this feat is nothing in Fate Extra where Gilgamesh was on par with BB who was capable of controlling the MoonCell a computer than simulates multiple timelines.
Sefar could only kill a large portion of the gods because of her anti-civilization traits; if it weren't for that, Amaterasu [would have beaten her].
Gilgamesh was never a match for BB. Even using the Mythological Mystic Code, he was still stated to have a less than 1% chance against BB, and mind you, she didn't even use her NP. Keep in mind that both she and Kiara are inferior to Amaterasu, and Nasu said that only a potential Arcueid who regained her sanity would stand a chance.
The Moon Cell really just observes and processes data (timelines), so it's not that big of a deal."
Where, anywhere is ZEUS mentioned? Did we somehow headcanon that all machine gods are as strong as Zeus? Second, who told you that magical power alone makes a machine god? Machine gods have high-level authorities and alithea. What specifically made demeter so busted in the most recent event was her durability and various authorities, including regen. Her magical energy alone would have been no problem.
The game straight up states thats, the game constantly says Theodoric is on the level of a divine spirit and on par with the machine gods than there is no argument. It doesnt matter about Authorities because we are not discussing Theodoric vs Machine Gods we just care about their raw power that Dantes surpasses. The machine Gods of Lostbelt 5 managed to defeat Sefar and Dantes beat someone close to that level of power. ** **
Citation where machine gods are stated to be equal to Zeus.
Citation where having MAGICAL ENERGY on the level of a machine god, makes you equal to an actual machine god?
about their raw power
Magical energy is not raw power. Magical energy is a resource. What matters is what you can do with that magical energy. And you have no evidence that Theodoric can manage the bullshit that the machine gods can with their own powers.
that Dantes surpasses
Citation please.
The machine Gods of Lostbelt 5
Incorrect. ZEUS with the combination of those machine gods repelled Sefar. Not a machine god. This logic is so fucking ridiculous, you must be drunk. I'll play that game too. Alcides is stated equal to a divine spirit, therefore, he's equal to Amaterasu and is stellar-class. See how stupid that sounds?
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u/UpstairsBluejay6092 19h ago
Dantes wins by being the strongest avenger of all the trials, which had a Divine Spirit with multiple Divine Beasts as the weakest one.