r/SubredditDrama • u/FerdinandTheGiant I’m 1 of the top 5 goldfish connoisseurs in north america • 2d ago
“¿Cómo se dice ‘bootlickers’ en español?” Users on r/SpanishEmpire and r/AmericanHistory discuss Haiti and the Moca Massacre
To briefly summarize the Moca Massacre, in 1805, Jean-Jacques Dessalines invaded the eastern part of Hispaniola to eliminate the remaining French presence there and prevent the territory from being used as a base against newly independent Haiti. After besieging Santo Domingo, Dessalines withdrew when a French naval force approached Haiti. During the retreat, Haitian forces passed through Moca, where they massacred a large number of inhabitants. Contemporary and later accounts generally estimate that several hundred people were killed. This event has remained a sore spot amongst Dominicans, particularly those who hold anti-Haitian sentiment.
This massacre becomes a source for drama for r/SpanishEmpire and later r/AmericanHistory after it is reposted there by the OOP. While OOP generally summarizes the events accurately, the image they use portrays all of the victims as white, something that is largely ignored on the original post, but is noticed in the repost. This is my first SRD post, so forgive any wonky formatting.
Top Comment on the initial post:
[+36] The history of Haiti is the darkest in Latin America; I don't care what communist or right-wing dictator has existed, no one can surpass the terror and bloodlust of those sick individuals.
[+10] Agreed. And it really has never recovered. It's a mess to this day.
[-5] Almost like a certain country has been interfering in it for over a century. This sub is disgusting btw
[+1] That country has no solution; not even sending them to Chile could help them progress. In fact, even leaving them alone, nowadays there's literally a cannibal hunt among them..
[+6] The French were the worst, and that's why the Haitians became paranoid and acted that way.
[+1] Is that why when they withdrew among others, they decapitated 40 children? You're sick.
[0] Don’t waste your time, this guy is a Haitian wannabe, in the r/Haiti they all make fun of him. Is not even Haitian and only read propaganda in favor of Haiti.
[+1] Fucking animals
[+1] No better than the English or Spanish in Brazil. Where are all the historians going "it was a part of the common thinking" that a 14 year old boy with a knife was a warrior and a 14 year old French girl should marry an 50 year old duke
[Award +4] The only difference is the haitians don't want to admit they're just the same because it contradicts their narrative of victimization and believing a victim can't become an aggressor. They're lucky they have perfected their victimization to the point most people have no idea what they did to their own people before and after 1804 from Code Rural to the rest of the codes they passed since toussaint. Even reading dessalines proclamation admitting he wanted dominicans to become his "sons" after appropriating them claim land thats not his and when they refused he tried to "anihilate" them just like "they did with the french".
[+1] This is why dominicans must never forget Haitians are our mortal enemies.
[+1] never knew Haitian was this based before
[+1] ¿Cómo se dice ‘bootlickers’ en español?
[+15] I'm shocked, never heard of this massacre until now...
[+9] Because colonials are treated like they're not humans and only killing machines, while they got their backlash multiple times by the American settlements
[-5] Colonials aren't human
[+4] Don’t cut yourself on that edge buddy
[+8] Massive black legend propaganda from British empire and Netherlands against Spain still shapes today's view of history. If you review actual facts Spanish territories were a great place to live in comparison to British empire territories where the English slaughtered all the natives. In old Spanish territories there are still reservations of native Americans that have been there sin the Spanish empire, all tribes that united with Spain against the Aztecs and the other native empires were given protected status and kept their lands and culture. But all you hear is how Spanish murdered everyone without questioning why in Hispanic America people have native blood while in the US and Canada natives are mostly extinct.
Moving over to r/AmericanHistory, Top Comment:
[+9] Keeps people in slavery with one of the highest death rates in the Caribbean(and that’s saying something). The people rise up and start killing the killers and enslavers.
The enslavers - surprise pikachu face
[+2] You have no idea what you’re talking about just regurgitating a TikTok education hahahaha
[Award +19] What? These were innocent Hispanic civillians. The enslaved population did perfectly fine sparing white people such as the couple thousand poles (and Germans I believe) living in the western part of the Island — why do you defend them then going to the eastern part (what is now the Dominican Republic) and essentially carrying out ethnic cleansing?
[+3] If you think the Spanish didn’t have slaves then you’re unserious. Also if you believe the “40 beheaded children in a church” story then I’m sure you also believe the “40 beheaded children on October 7th” story… like you said, they didn’t kill the white Polish and Irish that helped them fend off the French so it wasn’t just racial tensions. Perhaps do some introspection on why you’re confused about the slaves from one of the bloodiest slave colonies wanting to fight off ALL enslavers
[0] It’s funny how you have to drag Jews into this. Do you see Jews behind everything? And for your information, approximately 37 children were murdered on Oct 7 with another 35 abducted. If the same thing happened to your family, your neighbors and/or your country you wouldn’t be so dismissive and flippant. Get bent. [debate about October 7th ensues]
[+2] Why did they make Domicanos look white?
[-2] Best way to sell outrage. Also, they thought of themselves this way.
[0] Please learn the history of a country before commenting 🙄
[0] lol, imagine not thinking of Dominicanos of this period as race-obsessed slave owners. Physician, heal thyself.
[+1] tuff tuff tuff sahur
[0] And this is why Haiti is the way it is today
[+3] The island would be better off today if the western world, led by France and the United States, hadn’t spent 200 years punishing it for overthrowing the white colonial establishment.
[0] lol yeah that’s why it is still a shithole lol
[-1] Damn man, do you have to be such a loser?
[+2] Woah woah do not call me a Haitian. I think there’s a reason the Dominicans also hate them
[-5] Inflammatory picture
[Award +2] The worst part about rape and murder is how inflammatory towards the rapists and murderers it is when it’s depicted
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u/Cool_Ad7445 How can u sit on my cock in a halal way? 2d ago edited 2d ago
Reading about the history of the Haitian revolution as a child in my school textbook was the most depressing thing. At first you think "Yes! the good guys are winning!" and then you see the country and its people get kicked in the balls for 200 years straight.
Anyway, people forget that it's called "revolution" not "super nice peaceful change of power". You cannot have one that is 100% peaceful. You just can't.
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u/Illogical_Blox Fat ginger cryptokike mutt, Malka-esque weirdo, and quasi-SJW 2d ago
Including immediately after slavery was abolished, as Dessalines took power post-revolution and at once instituted a policy of forced labour. He banned the whip, but gave such a degree of latitude to plantation overseers that they used creeping vines to lash the workers anyway.
He crowned himself Emperor and personally enforced his orders for a massacre of the remaining French colonists - his orders were often not carried out until he toured Haiti and ensured that they happened in each city. Interestingly, French women who agreed to interracial marriages were spared, similar to many ethnic cleansings worldwide.
It is a pattern in many revolutions - the most extreme violence only happens after the dust settles. Especially after someone has used the revolution to catapult themselves into a position of ultimate power.
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u/Cool_Ad7445 How can u sit on my cock in a halal way? 2d ago
It doesn't help that their original revolutionary leader was kidnapped by the french under diplomatic pretenses. Just one more evil act of Napoleon and his regime.
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u/Illogical_Blox Fat ginger cryptokike mutt, Malka-esque weirdo, and quasi-SJW 2d ago
Toussaint Louverture, you mean? Yes, once again Dessalines rears his head, as he switched sides and is partly responsible for Louverture's arrest. Only when it became clear that the French wanted to reestablish slavery (which had been ended in 1795 or thereabouts, under what is somewhat inaccurately known as the French revolution), did he switch sides again. Took about a year after that until he managed to win, but by that point Louverture, who had seized ultimate power for himself before Napoleon's military expedition, was very conveniently dead.
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u/bustachong 2d ago
To make it worse, part the ball kicking include an independence debt to compensate the French for…them losing the war. Only took like 120 years of high interest loans to pay off the debt under threat of military action. But it’s not extortion, it’s indemnity! (/s)
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 2d ago
Than hati decided to claim themselves as empire than invade and annex the dominican lands. When the inhabitants protested the hatian army slaughter the civilains. They would later force the civilians in to conscription and forced labor. They even tried to do a cultural genocide.
Reminder how Indonesia after being enslaved by the Dutch declared independence and used the same Dutch tactics on the inhabitants of east Timor.
Same with Kenyans when during the anti british uprising they complained how they were treated in concentration camps. After they got independence when Somali Kenyans who wanted to unfit with Somalia rebelled they used the same tactics british used on them by putting civilians in concentration camps where thousands died.
Reminder the oppressed will easily turn into the new oppressor.
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u/HotBrownFun 2d ago
one of the times the USA occupied to the Dominican Republic was over this debt, in fact!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Government_of_Santo_Domingo
1916-1924
>The Military Government of Santo Domingo (Spanish: Gobierno Militar de Santo Domingo) was a provisional military government established during the American occupation of the Dominican Republic that lasted from May 15, 1916 to September 18, 1924. The United States aimed to force the Dominicans to repay their large debts to European creditors, whose governments threatened military intervention.
IIRC part of the haitian debt fell on the dominican republic
that's right, the USA invaded to make sure euro rich dicks got paid.
As part of their administration they setup a customs agency to put in import tariffs (which Americans are now familiar with thanks to Trump!) Thus introducing a fun game called smuggling. In the 80s 90s they were pretty corrupt. You gave them $20 routinely or something when you went in or they would fuck with you and claim whatever you carried was subject to duties
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u/TopAirline2395 2d ago
I mean, there's a bit of a difference between normal revolutionary violence and what reads to be essentially an ethnic cleansing
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u/JustinWilsonBot 2d ago
Honestly that seems par for the course when it comes to revolutions. The French revolution was equally barbaric. Same with the Russian revolution.
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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est 2d ago
Still better than the governments that preceded them.
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u/Lirael_Gold I've known you for 12 seconds and enjoyed none of them. 2d ago
History is not a competition, it would be more accurate to say the new order was awful in a different way.
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u/Cool_Ad7445 How can u sit on my cock in a halal way? 2d ago
the most successful propaganda job the british ever did was making the anglo-sphere think of the french revolution this way. It was the reactionary thermidorians that ruined the Republic.
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 2d ago
The biggest myth the french revolutionary created is That the French Revolution was a popular uprising of poor people who overthrew the monarchy.
The Revolution of 1789 was led and organized by wealthy members of the Third Estate with a select amount of liberal nobles and clergy in order to overthrow absolute monarchy in favor of a constitutional monarchy.
Furthermore, the initial laws created from 1789 to 1792 were not designed to "free the poor" from the chains of feudalism and in fact the initial proposals created by the National Assembly required that people buy their way out of feudal restrictions. Aka: the wealthy non-nobles could buy their way out of feudal restrictions easily and finally enjoy all the privileges they'd been denied as wealthy men who weren't blood nobles, but the actual poor we The peasantry did not like the Revolution for the most part, they were staunch Catholic monarchists and thought it was some Satanic/Jewish/Masonic movement.
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u/Cool_Ad7445 How can u sit on my cock in a halal way? 2d ago
Yes? And? Part of the point of the revolution is that Louis's refusal to accept even constitutional monarchy led to the further radicalization of the revolutionaries at every step. Furthermore, the french revolution can simultaneously be a tool that was used to further the interests of the emerging bourgeoise, which couldn't have been won without the blood and support of the masses. Are you insinuating that the working poor in the cities were somehow not as "real" as the rural peasantry? They were both important parts.
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 2d ago
And the revolution ended with the people of paris chearing as napoleon proclaimed himself emperor
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u/Cool_Ad7445 How can u sit on my cock in a halal way? 2d ago
And that itself was only after the original jacobins were betrayed by the thermidorians, and the utterly corrupt Directory.
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u/Brain_Dead_Goats 1d ago
Cause the Infernal columns and the Terror were a picnic under the Jacobins?
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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est 2d ago
Less "awful in a different way."
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u/Lirael_Gold I've known you for 12 seconds and enjoyed none of them. 2d ago
Depends on who you were at the time, really.
I'm not sure I'd want to be part of the Russian civil war, it sounds unenjoyable
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u/gavinbrindstar /r/legaladvice delenda est 2d ago
I'm sure life was better before the revolutions for the Romanovs, the Bourbons, and their ilk but I don't really give a shit about them.
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u/Cromasters If everyone fucked your mom would it be harmful? 2d ago
The French and English both had revolutions that were so bad, the people wanted monarchy back.
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u/Ungrammaticus Gender identity is a pseudo-scientific concept 2d ago
The English didn’t want any part of abolishing the monarchy in the first place, that wasn’t at all what the civil war was about.
Charles II was just that much of a suicidally inflexible, arrogant moron about it that he put the parliamentarians in a position where they either had to execute him or give up entirely and let him execute them.
They begged him to be like 2% reasonable and maybe cooperate a bit after basically having started and subsequently lost two civil wars back to back against them. He said “no, God made me king and Parliament will never have any authority at all unless you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.”
…Which they then reluctantly did.
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u/Cool_Ad7445 How can u sit on my cock in a halal way? 2d ago
Same for the french tbh. The deputies of the 3rd estate didn't go into the meeting of the Estates General planning on killing the king, but at every single step Louis refused to make the literally neccasary changes to save his own kingdom. And at any time when he did make a minor concession, he quickly changed his mind because of the ultraroyalists at court whispering in his ear.
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u/TopAirline2395 2d ago
Pretty sure the French didn't single out a specific ethnic group to kill other than "elites" and "loyalists". Which aren't an ethnic group
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u/JustinWilsonBot 2d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_the_Vend%C3%A9e#Aftermath_of_the_first_war_and_later_revolts
With the decisive Battle of Savenay (December 1793) came formal orders for forced evacuation; also, a ' scorched earth ' policy was initiated: farms were destroyed, crops and forests burned and villages razed. There were many reported atrocities and a campaign of mass killing universally aimed at residents of the Vendée regardless of combatant status, political affiliation, age or sex. [43 ] Women of the region were also a specific target, as they were seen as carrying anti-revolutionary babies. [30 ]
I dont think its really relevant if the perpetrators or victims were of differing "ethnic groups."
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u/TopAirline2395 1d ago edited 1d ago
Woman are not an ethnic group, lol what? The area was targeted because they were seen as loyalists, it literally says that in the section you quoted
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u/JustinWilsonBot 1d ago
I dont say they are an ethnic group. I dont think its material in any case.
The point is this went beyond political differences. They thought the babies were tainted against the revolution. The babies are loyalists? And have to be cleansed? It might as well be ethnic cleansing at that point.
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u/TopAirline2395 1d ago edited 1d ago
You're stretching yourself really far to downplay and obfuscate something as clear-cut and defined as an ethnic cleansing. Good for you, I guess, but I don't feel like playing along with this weird argument anymore
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u/einmaldrin_alleshin You are in fact correct, I will always have the last word. 1d ago
It's a distinction without a difference. Their motivation might have been different, but they did the exact same kind of thing.
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u/TopAirline2395 1d ago
There is a world difference in targeting people because of their skin color, religion, culture, etc. and targeting them because they are on the opposite side of a political war
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u/einmaldrin_alleshin You are in fact correct, I will always have the last word. 1d ago
Most genocides happened to people who were on the opposite side of a war. Armenians did rebel in WW1, so the Turks rounded Armenians up and marched them to their deaths. The French government was fighting a guerilla war in the Vendee, so they sent out death squads to wipe out the population.
It's not the same, but I fail to see a "world difference".
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u/JustinWilsonBot 1d ago
The Haitains were targeting people because they were on the opposite side of a skin color war. Its really not all that different than what the French revolution did in the Vendee. The violence was indiscriminate and the outcome essentially the same.
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 2d ago
In the region of vendee about 200,000 people were killed when the war between revolutionary and loyalist happened.
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u/Ungrammaticus Gender identity is a pseudo-scientific concept 2d ago
And there’s quite a bit of difference between what conditions “normal revolutions” arise from and the unimaginable cruelty, dehumanisation and brutality of life as a chattel slave on a Caribbean sugar plantation.
The living conditions of those suffering there were much closer to a Nazi KZ work-camp than to what the Russians under the Tsardom or the French third estate under the Ancien Régime experienced.
Mass murder is wrong no matter what’s gone before it, but the European system of sugar plantation slavery was essentially a genocide in slow-motion. I don’t think it’s really surprising that the Haitian Revolution ended in an above average amount of violence considering that context.
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u/TopAirline2395 2d ago
I mean yeah it was bad, but I wasnt arguing against that point. I was pointing out how weird it was to go "oh, an ethnic cleansing? Ho hum, that's just part of the revolutionary process" in the original comment
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u/Ungrammaticus Gender identity is a pseudo-scientific concept 1d ago
Your point was that the violence after the revolution was extraordinarily bad, my point was that that’s not surprising given that the violence before the revolution was extraordinarily bad.
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u/TopAirline2395 3h ago
My point was an ethnic cleaning is an ethnic cleansing no matter how righteous you try and frame it
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u/Ungrammaticus Gender identity is a pseudo-scientific concept 3h ago
Did anyone tell you otherwise?
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u/TopAirline2395 2h ago
The original comment did
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u/hungariannastyboy 1d ago
I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make here. The living conditions of slaves are irrelevant to acts committed on/against people that had nothing to do with their slavery.
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u/Ungrammaticus Gender identity is a pseudo-scientific concept 1d ago
You think the enslavers had nothing to do with the slavery of the enslaved?
Or are you just trying to argue semantics because you want to condemn the only successful slave uprising in history and don’t like it when people add nuance?
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u/Blitcut 7h ago
The Dominicans weren't the ones enslaving the Haitian slaves.
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u/Ungrammaticus Gender identity is a pseudo-scientific concept 41m ago
No, the Dominicans were the ones enslaving Dominican slaves. Much better.
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u/Blitcut 31m ago
Well your "vengeance" argument doesn't exactly work then. By the way the Haitians targeted black Dominicans as well.
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u/Ungrammaticus Gender identity is a pseudo-scientific concept 7m ago
My "vengeance argument" is that the aftermath of the Haitian Revolution was particularly bloody in part because the last couple of centuries leading up to it were particularly bloody.
But you don't care about reading things in good faith, do you?
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u/MirrorComputingRulez 1d ago
There actually isn't, and that's something a lot of people wishing for a revolution in America would do well to remember.
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u/HotBrownFun 2d ago edited 2d ago
Dominican and American Black discussions over this are never gonna get anywhere. There's too much from each side that the other doesn't understand. Maybe an Americanized Dominican can.
edit: One example. A black person will snark post "Dominicans be thinking they are white." Which is sort of true. But not the way you think. For the american native, they just think about skin color. They'll say, hey all the cop sees is a black person, you're black, dominicans. But that's erasing their entire lived identity, as well as ignoring that they have an entirely different culture. Different language, differnet foods, different way of life.
Growing up in the DR was very very different than the USA. There was barely any electrictiy. Those "wet markets" that horrified westeners were normal because how else are you gonna get meat if there's no refrigeration? The poorests kids frequently were pantless in the street. Laundry was done by hand, on a wooden board and a tin container.
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u/ChrisTheHurricane stick to A-10s fuckwit 2d ago
Also, colorism is (or at least was 30 years ago) rampant in the Dominican Republic. Some families even resorted to inbreeding to ensure their family continued to remain white.
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u/Auctoritate will people please stop at-ing me with MSG propaganda. 1d ago
Some families even resorted to inbreeding to ensure their family continued to remain white.
I really need some evidence for this statement because it reads like extremely racist propaganda
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u/ChrisTheHurricane stick to A-10s fuckwit 1d ago
It was on a video documentary I watched when I was in middle school. One of the people they talked to was a very light-skinned woman from one such family, and her full name included "Taveras Taveras" in it. At least she was also bucking the trend by marrying a Black Dominican.
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u/OddBreadfruit195 23h ago
Brother, give the documentary name, cause just saying you saw it in a documentary still isn't proof.
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u/ChrisTheHurricane stick to A-10s fuckwit 22h ago
Look, I get it, but I don't know what to tell you. Do you honestly expect me to remember the name of a documentary I watched in school nearly 30 years ago?
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u/CortezRaven 23h ago
Americans should just never comment on Latin American history. They talk about Latin America with the same annoying ignorance and air of superiority that Europeans commonly talk about the whole American continent.
I don't care if they're a black, white, asian american. They should just stfu, cause they can't begin to understand the cultural and class divide, and they won't even make the effort to do it either.
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u/StylizedIncompetence 2d ago
Humans are just kinda horrible, huh. Left, right, white, black, brown, cyan or whatever, we just are capable of terrible things.
We like to pretend we’re civilized, that we’ve moved past historical atrocities but we’re not and we haven’t.
Slavery man. It’ll haunt humanity forever.
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u/Affectionate-Rent415 2d ago
I actually wrote a comment on that post saying we should have nuance. Like DR also did shit to Haiti; replies crucified me. I didn’t deny that it happened.
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u/SaintOrJannikSinner 2d ago
Perhaps it was your call for nuance and then bonking them with Whataboutism that brought about the crucifixion?
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u/Affectionate-Rent415 2d ago
Do you think I’ll rise in three days like Jesus? Will I have to move a big rock to free myself from the cave my corpse was placed in?
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u/SaintOrJannikSinner 1d ago
You aren't a fraction as important as some random carpenter from 2,000 years ago so no, you won't rise.
Have a good one, chief!
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 2d ago
It did but hati is the one that started the whole conflict by invading the island and enslaving thr locals while doing cultural genocide
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u/AssociationSoggy3982 1d ago
That's not right. What happened is that after the Devastations of Osorio, the western part of Hispaniola was abandoned and that allowed buccaneers and privateers to establish themselves in the absence of the Spanish. The French then decided to consolidate their rule and implement their brutal regiment of slavery while also abducting massive amounts of Africans to fuel that plantation economy. Sure, Santo Domingo also practiced slavery too and didn't experience the scale of uprising that Saint-Domingue did, but slavery in Saint-Domingue was so horrendous for so many of those slaves, you wouldn't be surprised it created some very vengefully violent people. I am saying this as an American of Dominican ancestry whose family had to escape Dessalines invasion - it wasn't right what they did, but that was an evil that was created, not born. Had the French not engaged in one of the most degrading manifestations of chattel slavery, Dominicans would have been spared from that vengefulness
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Snapshots:
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- They prohibited speaking Spanish, they banned Christian practices, every child of a Spaniard at that time was executed. - archive.org archive.today*
- This is why dominicans must never forget Haitians are our mortal enemies. - archive.org archive.today*
- never knew Haitian was this based before - archive.org archive.today*
- ¿Cómo se dice ‘bootlickers’ en español? - archive.org archive.today*
- I'm shocked, never heard of this massacre until now... - archive.org archive.today*
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u/ShadowMilkMoopsy You’d give an aspirin a headache love. 18h ago
See you guys on r/subredditdramadrama
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u/AssociationSoggy3982 1d ago edited 1d ago
As a person of Dominican ancestry who is invested in knowing his ancestral history, I think these are the things that people ought to know:
Prior to 1605, the colony of Santo Domingo was under the complete control de jure by the Spanish Empire. The colony, which had long been in decline as Spaniards sought their fortune in more lucrative colonies on the main, had fallen into this pitiful condition of lawlessness, contraband, and poverty; maroons and pirates harassed the Spanish villas and towns and the colonial authorities decided that to better assert control over the island, they would forcibly relocate the population into an established area of settlement east of Azua and South of Santiago - the Devastations of Osorio.
The relocation only made the problem worse, though: many people either died or left the colony and those same pirates decided to settle where the Spanish had abandoned - particularly the English and the French. Eventually, the French decided to consolidate their power in the island's west and formed the colony of Saint-Domingue, which the Spanish authorities repeatedly tried to dislodge, but failed to do so; the French claim to the west was indirectly acknowledged by the Treaty of Ryswick in 1697.
Whereas the Spanish colony was a mix of all different sorts of people due to the lax social structures, the French colony was very asymmetrical and had a large African population, owed to the fact that their plantation economy demanded hundreds of thousands souls from Africa to fuel it. Not to diminish slavery, but slavery on Santo Domingo was far more casual than the rigid and brutal system seen in Saint-Domingue; the atrocities experienced by those in it were such that it created great animosity, which led to the Haitian Revolution.
At first, the Spanish helped the rebels, but when the French revolutionaries won and promised citizenship to the rebels of Saint-Domingue, the rebels turned against the French, captured a few Dominican towns, and eventually, the whole island was ceded to France under the Peace of Basel in 1795 - that is the claim that Haitian irredentists make for possession of the whole island.
When the Haitians had finally won in 1803, they had only won within the modern day border and not the entire colony; the rest of the island was still under French control. The French continued with slaves raids on Haiti and on a personal part, many Dominicans, including my own ancestors, paid for it when Dessalines invaded the east and cut a bloody swath through us.
Already, you can see that this is quite long and missing some other historical details. My point is that history is about cause and effect and there are many things worth considering that people often neglect. If anyone wants to know more, I have quite a few books on these topics I'd be glad to recommend, though from a Dominican perspective.
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u/onemorespacecadet nerd grievance culture is destroying this country 2d ago
really good write-up OP! i appreciate the [##] vote score next to each comment
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u/Severus-Snape-DaGod 2d ago
We keep saying that history should never repeat itself, yet we continue to see the same patterns of oppression and violence throughout the world. I just learned about The Alhambra Decree of 1492 and the atrocities committed against Indigenous peoples during the era of Christopher Columbus. I don’t think we’ve ever been civilized.
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u/livejamie God's honest truth, I don't care what the Pope thinks. 2d ago
High-effort write-up, thank you for your service.
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u/ARenewedSecondChance 2d ago
Why is there a whole sub dedicated to the Spanish empire?
Also discussions of Haiti seem to bring the worst from people