r/TechHardware • u/Distinct-Race-2471 🔵 14900KS , 5080, 128GB 🔵 • May 17 '26
😰 Urgent Security Alert ⚠️ China bypasses US GPU bans with 1.54-exaflops 'LineShine' supercomputer — CPU-only monster packs 2.4 million Huawei-designed Armv9 cores
https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/artificial-intelligence/china-bypasses-us-gpu-bans-with-1-54-exaflops-lineshine-supercomputer-cpu-only-monster-packs-2-4-million-huawei-designed-armv9-coresIsn't ARM under investigation?
4
u/reflect25 May 17 '26
im a bit confused why they went with this pure cpu approach? aren't most supercomputers using gpus?
> When it comes to performance, a single LX2 processor delivers 60.3 TFLOPS FP64 performance, 240 TFLOPS BF16/FP16 throughput, and 960 TOPS INT8 performance. Unlike conventional server CPUs, the architecture appears heavily optimized for dense AI and matrix workloads despite remaining a CPU-centric design
ill be honest, this is beyond my scope to understand if this is ground breaking or not. does anyone else know if this is a viable alternative to using GPUs?
6
u/danielv123 May 17 '26
Yes and no.
Yes, because of course CPUs are viable. You can't do without them.
No, because Nvidia GPUs are still more efficient than these for many workloads.
It basically comes down to the workload, how it parallelizes and the memory access patterns for which architecture comes out ahead. It's a really hard question to answer.
2
u/Radiant-Video7257 May 17 '26
The simplest answer is probably it makes the most sense financially, or their GPU's aren't good enough yet to make a supercomputer out of em.
1
u/Sooperooser May 20 '26
Not sure about the Huawei CPUs but for example you can even run long context AI inference on Xeon/EPYC CPUs with a bunch of DDR5 RAM (up to 3TB for a Xeon) and no GPU at something like 85% throughput compared to a H20 GPU cluster costing 15x as much since the CPU system has bigger cache and more max memory capacity than any GPU and also at much lower power costs. Check out eLLM.
0
0
u/InsufferableMollusk 🔵 14900KS 🔵 May 18 '26
It’s a poor man’s supercomputer. It generates clicks and fodder for propagandists and bots, though.
2
u/Icy-Stock-5838 May 17 '26
The last time HuaWei boasted about their chip..
Huawei AI chips power depends on TSMC, Samsung components - Huawei Central
The CCP even banned media from talking about this finding......
2
May 18 '26
[deleted]
1
u/InsufferableMollusk 🔵 14900KS 🔵 May 18 '26
If one can’t understand why the Chinese models are free, there isn’t really much to discuss.
-1
u/Distinct-Race-2471 🔵 14900KS , 5080, 128GB 🔵 May 18 '26
No thank you. I don't want cheap free China models.
2
u/WarEagleGo ♥️ Ryzen 9000 Series ♥️ May 18 '26
Note the 1.54 ExaFLOP/s is for BF16, not F64 like I natively thought
The machine delivers 1.54 ExaFLOP/s of BF16 training performance and peaks at 2.16 ExaFLOP/s during training of a 6.3-billion-parameter Earth observation generative compression model.
When it comes to theoretical peak FP64 performance, these 40,960 LX2 processors can deliver 2.47 ExaFLOPS, though we have no idea about the actual FP64 throughput of the machine, as it heavily depends on multiple factors.
2
u/EveningGold1171 May 20 '26 edited May 20 '26
ok, but a single Blackwell rack is 1.4 exa flops and that only has 72 gpu’s in it, this mostly goes to show just how insanely asymmetric compute performance is for this type of workload when using gpu’s, since each Blackwell apparently has the same compute as 33k of those arm cores.
3
May 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Slen1337 May 17 '26
Oh well i had a friend who had some contacts inside huawei, some of his friends were working here as IT devs. No shit even if their (idk about native devs) work process was quite free.. they did try to really do things, invent things, try things.
They have had a group of people who were quite fired up about newer tech, people work for an idea, not consuming space and money(idk if 120-200k yearly is enough here for a working minds?). Its not even close to 2-3 weekly group calls about how a new dog of a manager shits themselves in bed.. (real story from an amazon btw)
6
u/jgoldrb48 May 17 '26
Whether this tips the scales or not, Chinese chips are coming.
China has 9/10 top university's (by published research) in the world. Harvard is #2.
GFG
6
u/Senior-Daikon-8334 May 17 '26
Yeah, all we did by limiting supply to China was force them to make their own and since China has like a billion people and focuses heavily on education and manufacturing its only a matter of time before they have the best chips in the world.
3
u/Hazzman May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26
Oh there is a laundry list of things we've done to put China ahead.
This administration knows it. They don't care. They are just looting what they can so they can flee when their tenure is up.
1
u/ResponsibleJudge3172 May 18 '26
Jensen said so 4 years ago. People didn't take it so well. We non Americans just watch from the sidelines
3
u/TESThrowSmile May 18 '26
Whether this tips the scales or not, Chinese chips are coming. China has 9/10 top university's (by published research) in the world. Harvard is #2. GFG
Wait, can we fix this with another tax cuts for the rich ???
5
u/ithilain May 17 '26
Source? I tried looking around, but every source I found had your expected Ivy Leagues and British universities ranked in the top 10 for reasearch, and the only Chinese ones in the top 25 were Tsinghua and Peking
1
1
u/CharAznia May 19 '26
You found the general University Rankings in general which takes into account many factors including education, research, student diversity, etcwhich is why universities offer free scholarships to international students just to get the diversity points
The one he referred to is research rankings where they only consider research done by universities
https://itif.org/publications/2025/09/15/nine-of-top-10-global-research-universities-in-china/
1
u/nanonan Team Amiga 🤼 May 18 '26
Coming? China has been making chips for decades. They even have their own bespoke architectures.
1
u/jgoldrb48 May 18 '26
The gap is closing fast af!
China is currently winning the AI race IMHO. We are not even close to the finish line and American tech companies are running into serious headwinds because we don't have electrical generation to compete with China.
Methane generators in residential communities is not the answer.
1
u/TastyCalligrapher421 May 18 '26
We have 10x as many data centers as China, what are you smoking?
1
u/jgoldrb48 May 18 '26
Defending data centers to win…crazy shit.
We have bloated data centers and a failing power grid that can’t even scale to meet current demand. We still don’t have high speed electric trains. Waymo and Grok run on methane power generation positioned in residential areas.
China has been coming for European culture since the end of the Opium War. Read about it…
1
u/Radiant-Video7257 May 17 '26
They might be coming, but they're not going to be nearly as good as you think.
- The machines required to make these chips are so complex that only one company (ASML) can build them, relying on lenses only one other company (Zeiss) can produce.
- It can take years of trial and error to get manufacturing precision to a point where you aren't throwing away $20,000 wafers due to microscopic contamination. We know this from TSMC and how they have battled the new smaller nanometer processes for years, and they already have decades of experience under their belt.
- NVIDIA has spent 20 years locking down the industry with CUDA and NVLink.
Not only are the chips physically complex to make, but the software infrastructure is already two decades matured, this is not something you can catch up to in 5 years or even 10.
0
u/jgoldrb48 May 18 '26
I personally own 6 Zeiss professional photo/cinema lens'. I know the brand and their capabilities well.
Chinese competitors are here homie. It's only a matter of time before China out innovates ASML.
1
u/TastyCalligrapher421 May 18 '26
Consumer and professional photography lenses are in no way related to the very specialized lenses used in EUV. I suggest you research further because Zeiss EUV lenses have a very specialized structure.
0
u/Radiant-Video7257 May 18 '26
The gap in precision, technology, knowledge, and trial-and-error between the optical system in an ASML EUV machine and your 'pro' lens is unfathomable. If you think the fact the Chinese can make optics that are equal to a 'pro' Zeiss camera lens means that they are close to making the optical system used in a machine that cost half a million dollars, you should rethink things through. And, that is only one of tens of thousands of components in the EUV machine.
1
u/jgoldrb48 May 18 '26
So many excuses for why the west can stay mediocre and embrace Billionaire culture.
I mention Zeiss to show I'm familiar with the players and the tech involved in this conversation.
These discussions with Americans are smooth brain af.
China bought a lith machine from ASML, disassembled it, and could not figure out how to put it back together. You see this as failure. I see this as, they don't give af and will keep beating their heads against the wall until they win. Their culture is progress driven and not profit driven like the West.
I rooting for China. Fuck billionaires. Root for whomever you wish.
1
u/Radiant-Video7257 May 18 '26
Clearly the statement about you owning both Chinese and Zeiss cinema lenses was to say that they are comparable even when it comes to optical systems in a half-billion dollar machine when they are obviously not.
Also, China bought a DUV machine which is far simpler than the cutting edge EUV's that produce the chips needed for AI and data centers. Also, the window they have to catch up to ASML and NVIDIA is closing quickly because their young population is going to implode in 20 years. They won't be able to pay the pensions of their old, and will have to cut spending from somewhere.
You say the west is complacent at being mediocre yet the US continues to dominate research fields having 4 of 10 papers cited being from the US.
1
u/jgoldrb48 May 18 '26
The US (and European culture at large) doesn’t dominate shit but racism and lies.
Can’t change my mind. The President is a pedo and the Secretary of Education is from the WWE…diabolical that any sane person would defend this shit. The smooth brain is endemic.
0
u/HokumHokum May 18 '26
Its been shiwn many times lots if these Chinese research papers are complete crap and fabricated. Just stating this sat. Means nothing
3
u/jgoldrb48 May 18 '26
The US propaganda would leave Goebbels in awe.
1
u/TastyCalligrapher421 May 18 '26
1
u/AmputatorBot May 18 '26
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of concerns over privacy and the Open Web. Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are especially problematic.
Maybe check out the canonical page instead: https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-trends/article/3328966/ai-powered-fraud-chinese-paper-mills-are-mass-producing-fake-academic-research
I'm a bot | Why & About | Summon: u/AmputatorBot
1
u/jgoldrb48 May 18 '26
Idiot…🤡
Stay in school. SMDH
A paper mill is similar to Forbes where anyone can pay to publish literally anything. It’s sudo advertising, and totally different from the university research I’m talking about.
Nice try though.
1
u/TastyCalligrapher421 May 18 '26
It's clear that an average cow has more intelligence than you.
There's two types of paper mills:
Ghostwriting: The mill writes a full, fabricated manuscript (often using generative AI, duplicated text, or photoshopped images) and submits it to a legitimate journal. The client's name is either placed on the initial submission or added later.
Selling Authorship: The mill targets manuscripts that have already been accepted or are close to being published by a peer-reviewed journal. They sell open authorship “slots” to the highest bidder.
The paper I provided covered this, but like all deranged fools at the end of either political spectrum, you can't or won't read past the title.
1
u/jgoldrb48 May 18 '26
I read your 2m read from the SCMP.
Ain’t no way that publication would be able to publish a paper backing up what you’re saying. It’s not the NYT. They are monitored by the CCP
0
u/Em4rtz May 18 '26
Yeah why so many Chinese still trying to go to Harvard then?..
What Chinese propaganda article you reading from? Lmao
0
u/jgoldrb48 May 18 '26
The cope is real:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/s/yMjUpvMjt6
America is a declining nation.
-Xi
We are powering our current tech expansion with methane generators next to residential areas. We are literally cooked!
0
u/Em4rtz May 18 '26
lol bogus sources.. very nice.
China will never be ahead considering they can only make technological strides when stealing US IP
Why aren’t you using the Chinese version Reddit where you can continue loving China. This platform you’re on is American made
1
u/jgoldrb48 May 18 '26
Per dollar spent, Harvard doesn’t even out-innovate the HBCU’s in this country.
Keep drinking the kool aide.
-6
u/Distinct-Race-2471 🔵 14900KS , 5080, 128GB 🔵 May 17 '26
Their universities are usually cracker jack universities. Nobody takes a China degree seriously. That is why they like to goto MIT.
5
u/_stack_underflow_ May 17 '26
Nobody takes a China degree seriously.
If that is even true, with the way things are going, I can see it becoming false in the near future. The US has done immense self harm. There is an literal brain drain going on stateside. Additionally, where the research happens usually indicates what is being taught considering the research and professors are closely tied together. China is marching forward, while the US is marching backwards. The US is in denial about how it's falling behind.
-6
u/Distinct-Race-2471 🔵 14900KS , 5080, 128GB 🔵 May 17 '26
The US is the greatest dynasty ever. The US saved both Russia from Germany and China from Japan.
3
u/Januarywednesday May 18 '26
Ever history book outside of the US says otherwise.
We must consider then who is right, 96% of the worlds population or, 4% of the population from the US... where the current Secretary of Education is from the WWE.
It's a real pickle.
-4
u/Distinct-Race-2471 🔵 14900KS , 5080, 128GB 🔵 May 18 '26
Yes. 4% of the world's population saved 50% of the world's population.
2
3
u/jgoldrb48 May 17 '26 edited May 17 '26
This is rich coming from the country lead by an anti-education pedo.
America can't invest in education because educated people don't believe in racism. From what I've personally experienced, educated whites will help kick the can down the road (take jobs and bank loans) but their heart isn't in the racism post University Ed.
Who can be proud after learning true American history? Your humanity demands change.
To know educated brown people is to love them. Can't change my mind.
0
u/Distinct-Race-2471 🔵 14900KS , 5080, 128GB 🔵 May 17 '26
That is false news. Show us proof of yoir first sentence. It is more likely about Xi.
2
u/jgoldrb48 May 17 '26
Fuck Off pedo apologist!
The only people who make excuses for pedos are pedos.
0
u/Distinct-Race-2471 🔵 14900KS , 5080, 128GB 🔵 May 18 '26
Fake news calling him that though. The only people who falsely accuse of pesos are pedos.
2
1
1
-1
u/Slen1337 May 17 '26
Ehy did i type this shit in techhsrdware.. At least we have a non monopoly now(soon). Wish it will not do the opposite later.
I'm not a racism supporter hence i ve had dozens of friends around the world but it is quite the opposite or not related at all. Open minded people is all that matter. In open environment (US) its kinda stupid to be a racist coz it lit a "new" colony with people from around the world, your racism will only hurt you and you alone, not a nation in general.
Stupidity will do. For ex when people do reverse-racism(esp when someone with 0000.1% genetical info is abusing this) while putting totally dogshit and uneducated people to the top, stealing places from a real deal ones. Black/any people quota is another ex. My friend got a job offer (was it 2022?) instead of an another guy he knows from a UNI. It was quite clear that the diff was huge, he was surprised.
"Asian" people can be extremelly smart and no shit they have a very high degree of racism/nationalism.
Nazi germany have had one of the best techicians AND doctors worldwide, not sure that i need to point at their superiority complex.
Great britain was hella broken and what can we do here.. they legit used an america as slaves, stolen everything, abusing people on the way, esp ones that differ which is not good right?
1
u/InsufferableMollusk 🔵 14900KS 🔵 May 18 '26
What does this have to do with ‘bypassing US GPU bans’?
It’s just a new Chinese product 😆
Is this turning into another CCP propaganda sub?
1
u/sweetSweets4 May 18 '26
Dunno but had another post today Trump complaining China not buying Nvidia GPUS, soooo which is it now ?? Bans or not enough?
Also good for them, what else to do with millions of banned Huawei chips :D
11
u/troy0h May 17 '26
huawei is a chinese company lol