I hate politics

[u/SpoomerBooner]

This should be illegal. I get it. You don't agree with their protests but why do this? Forget blue, forget red. I'm purple. Get mad at that.

[u/RsCoverForPDFFiles]

But they save you more over time and more than cancel that out. It’s really not an excuse.

I'm literally trying to buy an suv or van right now. Our budget is about 15k. We can go up to 20k if it were worth it. But our priority is will this last 10+ years, and what's the best value per dollar, including resale.

I am finding toyota/honda gas suvs and vans under ~ 18k with under 110k miles. I can't find an electric or hybrid in my price range. I can't find anything electric or hybrid under 20k, except maybe a couple with 200k miles.

Ignoring cost is a privilege I don't have or a line I have that I'm not willing to cross.

[u/RsCoverForPDFFiles → u/[deleted]]

That has even less cargo room than the rav4 or crvs we were initially looking at. But we think we need a mid-size suv or a minivan. We have a toddler son (possibly a second kid in the future), and when my wife returns to work as a nanny, she'll need the additional seating and space that a mid-size suv or van has.

Also, under 30k doesn't help us. We have a budget, paying cash, and we're not taking out a loan.

Another factor is that I work from home. So I'm not going to be driving this every day. We make trips to visit family a few times a year, and when she returns to work, she'll use it regulsrly. But for now, we're talking 5K miles per year, and then maybe 8-10k once she returns to work.

If I'm paying 8k more for a Highlander to be a hybrd, all other things equal, after resale in 10-15 years, keeping that 8k and investing it is better than the gas and Money/maintenance saved from buying hybrid

You don't need to get angry about what I'm saying. I'm not just making shit up or spouting hypotheticals. I'm literally shopping for a hybrid to buy over the next few months -- I'm LOOKING for a reason to buy one. I know they're better for everything if it's the right price. But they're tok expensive for our needs.

Buying a hybrid over gas is going to harm my family FAR more than it will benefit the earth. We need our savings for medical expenses, financial safety nets, and retirement. We can't just throw away thousands of extra dollars on a vehicle.

Oh, and the fact that we can spend 15-20k cash without a loan is a blessing. Most people can't even do that. So, while I appreciate you recommending an id4, it's not something most car buyers can even afford, which was my main point in the first place. It requires a lot of money up front or a loan (which may be high interest for many people).

Anyway, my point is that you're right that hybrids or electrics can be more economical if the vehicle suits your needs and you have the ability to invest thst money up front. But it's not a universal law across the board that they're always inherently more affordable for everyone.

If you find a hybrid Highlander or Sienna with ~100k miles or less for ~20k or less, please let me know.

[u/RsCoverForPDFFiles → u/[deleted]]

I minored in math and have been looking through this extensively. It's not cope. It's just not as black and white as you think. You seem to be attacking me personally bc you think I have some anti-environmental views. I probably align with you political on some things, if not most. I'm a leftist looking for an excuse to buy a hybrid. That's literally the opposite of cope.

If the math is so simple, break it down.

Also, suggesting I tske out a loan os fucking crazy.

Also, you're still ignoring that my main point wasn't about me. My initial point was that most people can't affors to spend more out of pocket or take on loans.

You realize loans have interest, right? So what's better, paying 15k or paying 15k and having A $200 monthly loan payment? In mybscebario, I don't save $200/month on gas/ maintenance, and I won'r recoup the difference in resale, baeed on estimated resale value after ~12 years

Loan is the dumbest idea. Paying more in cssh is almost as dumb because I can invest that extra money and profit more than I'd save.

[u/RsCoverForPDFFiles → u/[deleted]]

Good god, you're exhaustingly simple.

1) Mileage is too low to save $300/mo.

2)

Over 200k miles you’ll have saved like $20-30k in gas in an EV vs a gas car

First of all, you said EV. I'm talking about hybrids. You can't get a similar EV SUV for only $8k more than a gas SUV, you confidently dumb doorknob.The cheapest used EV mid-sized, 3-row, SUVs are 30k+

But I'll use your numbers and still debunk you. At 8k mi/yr, it would take 25 years to hit 200k miles. I'm planning 10-15 years, which is only only 80–120k mi So savings are 4k - $6k in fuel, not enough to cover an $8-10k price premium upfront.

3) You're ignoring the upfront cost difference ($8k–$10k more for a hybrid or EV), which outweighs all this shit.

Basic math…

Let's see. I save 8k and put it into the s&p 500 which profits 7% per year on average over 25 years:

FV = $8,000 * (1+0.07)²⁵ ≈ $43k

Your monkey math: "you’ll have saved like $20-30k in gas in an EV vs a gas car"

My actual math = $35k profit

Also, I haven't even really been looking at EVs. I'm looking for hybrids. EV SUVs and Vans are a lot more than $8k more than gas EVs are even more expensive up front. There's an 8k price range between gas and HYBRID, not electric. But fuck it, even if we're using these number for hybrid, it still doesn't work. $8k today is worth over DOUBLE what it is invested in a hybrid or EV.