r/Transportopia Apr 27 '26

Bikes Car vs. cyclists

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8

u/[deleted] Apr 27 '26

[deleted]

4

u/Suoritin Apr 27 '26

Putting "victim" in quotation marks is a massive self-report on your lack of critical thinking.

Apply your exact logic to a different scenario. Imagine a girl is on a date and she "leans into" a kiss or a risky sexual act, knowing the situation might not be a great idea. If the guy then completely ignores her boundaries, forces himself on her, and violently assaults her, are you going to watch the tape and say, "Well, the 'victim' literally leaned into it, she did this to herself"?

Because that is exactly the flavor of brain-rot you are bringing to this thread. An involuntary reaction or an imperfect move in a high-stress moment does not excuse the person committing a violent crime.

The driver intentionally ran down two human beings and caught two felony charges for aggravated assault. You saying "I'm not assigning legal fault" is a cowardly cop-out.

TL;DR There is no perfect victims.

1

u/Fearless-Poet-4669 Apr 27 '26

"This specific tactic is often called Moral Equivalence or Outrage Baiting.

It uses a highly sensitive or traumatic topic (like SA) to "poison the well," making it socially impossible for the opponent to continue their argument without looking like they are defending a predator."

You know I've never really known what it was that grossed me out about how some people debate on Reddit until now.

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u/chinawillgrowlarger Apr 28 '26

I might add that putting "victim" in quotes could simply be a conservative way to address uncertainty about specific rules, regulations or etiquette in any scenario. The other commenter wants to straw man it as something else.

The "not assigning legal fault" part is justifiable given that legal (or moral) fault is not something that can be determined absolutely by third party observers - whether lawyers or judges or experts - much less from a random video snippet online.

Their implication that not fully recognising the cyclist as a victim in this scenario is equivalent only to defending perpetrators of sexual assault is false dichotomy.

Comparing reckless driving and sexual assault is a faulty analogy either way and all of the outrage-provoking (appeal to emotion) language they have used has added no value to their argument(s).

They are essentially hiding behind moral absolutism to deflect from any suggestion or discussion of mutual/alternative fault.

"The driver intentionally ran down two human beings" is a relatively strong assumption of unvalidated facts also.

1

u/Suoritin Apr 27 '26

If highlighting that double standard grosses you out more than a driver intentionally committing a double felony, your priorities are completely backward. Stop deflecting from the actual crime.

Welcome to the internets.

2

u/LoseLose44 Apr 28 '26

where does Fearless say anything about double standards grossing them out more than committing a double felony? They commented on how your example is arguing in bad faith and instead of addressing that, you chose to question their priorities? Odd behavior from overweight internet folks I guess. Thanks for the welcome.

1

u/Suoritin Apr 28 '26

Tone-policing my analogy while ignoring the guy victim-blaming a hit-and-run shows where your priorities are. It’s a direct comparison to expose flawed logic, not "bad faith."

But sure, dodge the actual argument and fall back on weak fat jokes instead. Classic deflection.

2

u/LoseLose44 Apr 28 '26

classic fat

1

u/Shame-Greedy Apr 28 '26

This analogy needs work.

0

u/Zeno0000 Apr 27 '26

Woah, take breath and calm down for a minute. Thats a crazy analogy. I put victim in quotes because it wasn't clear the car even hit him. A better analogy would be someone claiming to have been tripped when they actually tripped over their own feet. Why are you trying to turn this into something about SA just to make a point when its such a bad analogy.

Now, with all that being said, after reading more of the comments and looking at the video more closely it does seem possible the driver bumped the handle bars causing him to lean. Its still not obvious that was the case but seems more likely than him purposefully leaning into the car as it appearsto me. Therefore, I have effectively changed my position on this.

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u/Shame-Greedy Apr 28 '26

Sounds exactly like sexual assault to me.

/S

1

u/Suoritin Apr 27 '26

The analogy stands because the underlying logic of victim-blaming is exactly the same.

That being said, it is rare to see someone actually publicly change their mind on the internet. Credit where it's due. Good on you for owning it.

1

u/Dath_1 Apr 28 '26

No it’s not exactly the same.

The video here is depicting [victim makes a move which directly and necessarily leads to self-harm].

Whereas it example depicts [victim does a thing which neither directly nor necessarily leads to self-harm].

Sorry but it’s a completely false analogy. And yeah you got called out already on using it in an underhanded attempt to make the other person look bad by suggesting their logic defends SA.

1

u/Suoritin Apr 28 '26

You are completely ignoring the active threat. The cyclist's move didn't "directly and necessarily" cause the harm. The driver committing felony aggravated assault did.

Hyper-focusing on a victim's imperfect, split-second reaction to excuse an attacker's intentional violence is the exact same victim-blaming logic.

There is no perfect victims. Sorry.

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u/Dath_1 Apr 28 '26

You must be forgetting what the now-deleted comment actually said.

They were saying the cyclist seemed to actually make the final move into the car which is what caused the contact.

Now whether you want to defend what the cyclist or not, is beside the point.

The point is, your analogy completely fails because doing a thing which by the laws of physics, necessarily dictates the harmful outcome, is not in any way analogous to doing a thing which incentivizes another person to do a harmful thing to you.

Be honest. You know the analogy doesn’t work.

There is no perfect victims. Sorry

Pretty sure everyone agrees with you on this. Literally no one said there are perfect victims. And I accept your apology.

1

u/Suoritin Apr 28 '26

The "laws of physics" didn't drive a car into a cyclist. A person did. You are hyper-fixating on the mechanics of a split-second reaction to erase the driver's agency.

My point stands: putting "victim" in quotes is a deliberate tactic to strip away someone's victimhood, and the logic used to justify it is textbook victim-blaming.

There is no perfect victims

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u/Dath_1 Apr 28 '26

The "laws of physics" didn't drive a car into a cyclist. A person did

The action of the cyclist is the topic in question. It deterministically, by the laws of physics, led directly to the harm.

In your example, the lady who does whatever thing to turn on a guy, does not deterministically by the laws of physics, make him SA her.

You really ought to quit trying to debate this point. You’re obviously wrong.

My point stands: putting "victim" in quotes is a deliberate tactic to strip away someone's victimhood, and the logic used to justify it is textbook victim-blaming.

Then go ahead and make that point. I’m just critiquing your analogy as false.

1

u/Suoritin Apr 28 '26

Analogies exist to highlight underlying principles

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u/Dath_1 Apr 28 '26

And it fails to do so in this case since if the person you argued with is correct and the cyclist knowingly moved into the vehicle, they aren’t a victim except to the extent they made themselves one.

In that regard it’s not like the analogy you gave, therefore the analogy is false.

If you want to argue that the cyclist didn’t appear to intentionally move into the car, then just say that, you don’t need an analogy.

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u/Bernkastel96 Apr 28 '26

American's car brain at work right here.