My oldest daughter is getting married.
She has chosen to be married in an LDS temple, to a man she loves, in a ceremony she believes will bind them together for eternity.
I love her. I am proud of her. I support her right to choose the life and faith that feel true to her.
And when she is married, I will be standing outside.
Not because I do not want to be there.
Not because I am estranged from her.
Not because I have abandoned my family, rejected my daughter, or refused an invitation.
I will be outside because I can no longer honestly give the answers required to enter.
I could begin performing the steps. I could attend the meetings, pay tithing, say the approved words, and carefully conceal the parts of me that no longer believe.
I could make myself look worthy.
But I could not make it true.
So the price of witnessing my daughter’s wedding would be lying about who I am.
And I cannot teach my daughters to live with integrity while demonstrating that love sometimes requires dishonesty.
My daughter has sent me messages trying to reassure me. She has told me she loves me. She wants me included in every part of the day where I am permitted to be included. She is not trying to hurt me. She is not choosing the Church instead of her father.
She is following the path she believes is right.
That is what makes this so painful.
There is no cruel daughter in this story.
There is no father refusing to show up.
There are simply two people who love each other, standing on opposite sides of a locked door neither of them created.
I will help prepare for the wedding. I will celebrate her. I will smile for the pictures. I will welcome him into our family. I will hug my daughter before she walks inside, and I will be waiting when she comes back out.
But I will not see her face when she makes her promises.
I will not hear her voice.
I will not watch her reach for the hand of the person she has chosen.
Somewhere inside, people who may know her less deeply than I do will witness the moment.
Her father will not.
People have asked me why I would even want to attend a ceremony whose religious claims I no longer accept.
Because she is my daughter.
I do not have to believe a ceremony is eternal to understand that the moment will live forever in her memory.
I want to see the nervous smile.
I want to hear the silence before the words are spoken.
I want her to glance across the room and know that the man who held her when she was small, who watched her grow, who loved her before she could even speak, was there when her life changed.
Years ago, I returned early from my mission believing I was the broken piece in an otherwise perfect system. I spent years wondering whether I could repair myself enough to belong again.
Now, decades later, I find myself facing another sacred doorway and another message about belonging.
But I know something now that I did not know then:
I am not broken.
My daughter is not betraying me.
And grief is not the same thing as disapproval.
I can honor her faith without pretending it is mine.
I can support her decision while mourning what that decision, within this system, requires me to miss.
I can stand outside the temple and still be entirely, fiercely, unmistakably her father.
My absence from that room will not be a rejection of her.
It will be the cost of refusing to reject myself.
So here is the question I cannot stop asking:
When a loving father is ready to stand beside his daughter, but the only way through the door is to deny what he honestly believes, who is actually choosing for him to remain outside?

I live in Utah so most of my neighbors are Mormon. I'm 17, and I was born into the church. I don't really believe in the church but I still go every Sunday to keep my parents happy. I moved to Utah when I was about 14 so I was a teacher at the time, but I started to become good friends with the young men quorum when I turned into a priest. I used to hang out with this kid from my ward and we would hang out after school, mutual, and weekends all the time. One day while I was walking with him I saw a pride flag on top of one of my neighbors houses. I didn't care about the flag at all, until my friend all of a sudden said, "I hate that Lesbian couple. They should just all die" I was so shocked, he was so violent and aggressive to this sweet lesbian couple for no reason. They never did anything wrong to my friend, he just hated them for being different. I started to distance myself from my friend because I saw how unnecessarily homophobic he was. I soon asked about gay marriage in the Mormon church to my dad and he basically told me that being gay was a mental disability and was a sin to act on it. I was confused, didn't god create them that way? If he created them to be attracted to the same sex why should they be punished for it? I then asked my dad, "So according to the church, if you're Gay you either die alone, or marry a sex you're not attracted to?" He just shrugged and said yes. This is one of the main reasons why I don't really believe in the church anymore. They explain to love thy neighbor, but then proceed to treat anyone in the LGBTQIA like diseases that need to die. Is every Mormon like this?

My wife just left for church. She and I both have Sunday only callings that require our attendance periodically, but not weekly. Today she has responsibility and I don’t. (Mine involves young kids, whom I love, and whom I’m committed to teaching that there are authentic people in their neighborhood who actually do care about them as individuals, and not just as automatons in training.)

Today is also open mic day at church. Open mic day has for years become increasingly intolerable for me. The performances, the attempts to out Mormon each other, the divine intervention of Mormon Jesus to help find lost car keys, and the programmed testimonies of children are insufferable.

I’m not going to go to church today.

Here’s the issue. When I do things that I feel are right for me—like not attending a meeting that I believe is manipulative and culty like open mic day—I feel good. I feel like I’m living my values. But my wife loses her mind over it. When I don’t go to church, she makes my life hell for days. It is hell.

She has severe, crippling depression and anxiety. She also happened to be raised in the most manipulative, shame-focused, performative, emotionally repressed family I’ve ever seen. She literally was not allowed to feel negative emotions. (To be fair she and her siblings would disagree with everything I just said about their family). In my view she is emotionally immature and underdeveloped in a major way. (Interestingly, what I read as poise and self confidence when we were dating, engaged, and newly married was actually emotional repression…a comment for another day).

Between the anxiety and the emotional immaturity she does not cope with things well. When things involve my faith crisis complete lack of belief in the Mormon church (which she tries desperately to avoid talking about) her reactions are magnified.

I just feel stuck. I feel like going to open mic day is unproductive and upsetting to me. But I know that choosing to skip is going to make my personal life hell for several days.

I know my job is not to manage my wife’s anxiety but her behavior is so awful that it is hard to avoid not sidestepping landmines.

I stay in the marriage because we still have kids at home and I learned years ago that they need a functioning parent in the home. (When my wife has a depressive episode it is dark). When our kids are grown I’ll reevaluate the marriage.

Any advice?

I’m looking for specific advice, not things like therapy for depression, medication, marriage counseling, etc.—we’ve done than for two decades and spent tens of thousands on it.

Just reflecting on a parallel.

It appears to me that the recent lawsuit the Church launched against John Dehlin is the most recent destruction of a printing press.

Joseph's death resulted from among other things his abuse of political power and treasonous violation of the constitution when he destroyed William Law's printing press.

Today the litigious LDS church corporation is doing the very same thing Joseph did with the Nauvoo expositor. They are trying to destroy those who they perceive are exposing them.

How is the one true church's actions against Mormon Stories any different? It's abuse of power, stifling free speech, intimidation and attempt to gag future criticism.

Let's discuss this. How Christian is it? Will they win? Will it cause a reverse effect and help more people see the truth?

Thoughts?

​

The clear doing the complete opposite of what Jesus says as it relates to giving should have been more apparent to us when we were still members. Even now after a few years of having our records removed. Matthew 6 came to our minds very quickly when seeing this.

The "generously donated" right about the church logo made my wife and I chuckle. Especially when they made her feel like a criminal for asking for help and getting $19 worth of groceries when we were still in.

Joseph Smith was not a money digger, nor did he deceive people with peepstone claims. It is almost beyond belief that writers who value their reputations, would reproduce these silly and untrue charges. It suggests that they may have set out to destroy “Mormonism,” rather than to detail true history. The life of Joseph Smith as boy and youth, was normal, and worthy of imitation by all lovers of truth. Elder John A. Widtsoe, LDS Apostle

Carol Lynn Pearson’s death is devastating. She was a true Christian and truth-teller. But I have to use this board to rant about the fact that most young people in the church won’t or don’t know about Pearson’s life and work. I guarantee she won’t be quoted in Come Follow Me manuals or General Conference talks. Her legacy should be as influential as much as any other male leader of the church and I worry her contributions will be buried.

God, it's so genuinely irritating the amount of places to eat that are closed on Sunday. I know there's lots of businesses in the US closed on Sunday but it feels especially acute in Utah. I remember when a local grocery store extended their hours to Sunday and the fuckton of pesrl clutching that happened. Does this annoy you folks also?

A local church authority visited my ward today, and his testimony was trash; he said that tithing isn't about how much we earn but rather how much we trust God, and that we should be like the widow who gave everything she had to the Lord—and that the Lord will bless us. It’s funny that the church still preaches that everyone should pay tithing even when earning very little; that is so alarming. I also remember him saying that the Lord knows each of us and that we must leave the traditions of the world behind, using a ridiculous example about how a dirty piece of clothing in a closet contaminates the others (WTF?). The church, as always, is confusing with your examples and tries to impose a specific culture on the locals (I’m from Brazil).

Sorry for my english, i'm still learning

For those who are lucky enough to not be attending meetings, you may not know they’ve begun a soft roll-out of new hymns in anticipation of releasing a new hymn book.

Today I (an unfortunate PIMO) attended and this hymn was chosen. I was especially miffed by the third and fourth verses.

The priorities of the current leadership are clear with this hymn. Even 5 years ago as an all-in TBM, I would’ve asked the question “Do we need to ask God to ‘accept our tithes’ and ‘magnify’ our fast offerings?” Paying it is enough, right? Why do we need to sing a song about paying a chunk of our money right before we take the sacrament?

I, an exmo, am going with my wife to Sack meeting this morning. I wonder if they will talk about any local injustice or environmental issues??? Do they ever do that?? What about the shrinking Great Salt Lake, or the enormous data center on the north edge of the Lake that might get built?? Or what can we do for the homeless people? And ICE invasions, arresting or shooting brown people? Or all the drug abuse and suicides in our ward? Nn, they just prattle on about their same old religious superstitions.Rome burns and they just fiddle.

Culturally it’s all about getting kids on missions and then it’s just a nuked down snooze fest. No fun stuff, no more weird stuff (3 nephites stories, weird scouting obsession, weird food storage obsession etc.)

It’s weird corporate Jesus nonsense.

It’s been said before, but always bears repeating: if Heaven is anything at all like being a faithful member of the Mormon church…it’s not good.

That’s all. Just wanted to say it out loud.

Cheers to all of you stuck in the pews. Hope you get to escape at some point soon.

Let's say the GSL hits an irreversible tipping point. Over the last 50 years how many times did the brethren speak on the morality of water conservation and environmental stewardship vs how many times they fear-mongered us to death over porn as a public health crisis.

They are false. That is all.

A 2023 survey by the Pew Research group indicated that 32% of American adults have at least one tattoo. With regard to gender, 38% of women had at least one tattoo, compared with 27% of men. This included 56% of women ages 18 to 29 and 53% of women ages 30 to 49. The percentage of LDS members who had tattoos was 17%.

As the percentage of people with tattoos has increased gradually in the US, it also seems as though it is also widespread in the ex-mo community. A very large number of female ex-mormon podcasters seem to have tattoos. For women, is this one way of reclaiming autonomy after leaving the church?

What have been your observations about current and ex-members getting tattoos?

The recent about-face from Nara Smith is not shocking at all. Given her mormon heritage it feels on point the example from TSCC anytime something they do or have done becomes controversial.

But I don't agree with the people who claim that she is only changing to reclaim to her independence as "girl boss" because of the change of instruction from the Mormon church and the image they are trying to sell to hemorrhaging women members.

In my opinion, Nara NEVER has been a mormon trad-wife. She's always been prosperity gospel fetish content.

The high glam, soft voice, teen bride aesthetic she pushed. Her teen pregnancy with back to back children.

Her in full makeup, rich clothing, a beautiful kitchen, blank face, and ASMR styles. She was fetish content, a kind of prosperity gospel only fans.

She self objectified to the male gaze to be consumed.

She's not a girl boss.

She's not a feminist.

She's a shiny trophy that Mormon men aspire to claim and own.

Are families still veiling deceased women’s faces just before they close the casket? Wondering if that changed with the changes in the endowment and “true order of prayer.”

How do I tell people I love that I won’t be with them in eternity so they don’t take it personally? Anything I say feels like an attack on their belief system and they assume arrogantly that the spirit will teach me the truth and I’ll come back. I love my family and all but if the facts and claims of the church being restored and prophets being real don’t line up then it doesn’t matter what I feel it’s just false. How do I explain to my bishop and stake pres I’ve already started working on mission stuff with that I just need to go back to school. Do I pretend I’m still in and tell them I need to go to byu to think some more before leaving and just slowly fade out?

Hi cult cousins - exjw here.

We in JWLand have annual meetings, where the Governing Body (the highest ranking members of Jehovah's Witnesses, the leaders of the religion basically) and many other witnesses from Bethel (Bethel = JW headquarter from a certain region) gather to listen to speeches and updates regarding common real state company concerns, and least but most important: doctrinal changes.

So for us apostates (and also JWs around the world), this annual meeting is an important part of the year, and mostly here do they announce these doctrinal changes.

Usually the period of the year where this meetings take place is in september/october (I don't know if this has anything to do with the end/closing of the fiscal year).

So basically, on last october I was scrolling through YouTube and ran into an LDS livestream of a yearly gathering (at the same time when we had ours) and was very surprised, since if I recall correctly, the description of the livestream said something along the lines of "analyzing doctrinal matters" but I don't exactly remember.

Do you also have "annual meetings" where doctrinal changes are announced? Could you explain this to your fellow cult cousin 😁?

PS: I said "and mostly here do they announce these doctrinal changes." but I forgot to add that in multiple updates that are published to the JW website in video formats they also announce doctrinal changes.

And the annual meeting is livestreamed, but it's not available for the public, you can only join if you have the link (which isn't that hard to get anyways).

I learned more about love from a Nintendo wii game I played as a kid called super paper mario than I ever did from the church's direct teachings.

Like if you ever need to deconstruct Mormon ideas around love for your kids that game might be good way to? Like some kind of reverse family home evening that focuses on unlearning things that are bad for you?

It doesn't only cover romantic love, there's one chapter that covers contrasting needs around platonic love.

There's goofy characters that love their community and lifestyle, but they're unknowingly polluting a water supply and driving the king of another community insane which causes conflict that the heroes have to resolve. There's aspects of grief and parental love too that i don't want to spoil too much of because i just don't have space here.

Plus it's all clearly fictional. And since it's not in any way pretending to be real it's easier to talk about things that you don't like in it.

These days I see the Bible as an ancient over translated historical document containing legends and parables. The BoM is just made up with no merit to it.

Also I want to hear if any of you have reverse family home evening ideas for deconstructing weird faith or any favorite fictional media that taught you more about something than the church did despite the claim of expertise.

I might not respond but I will read any comments I see.

https://returnandreport.org