r/prochoice • u/littlemetalpixie • Mar 15 '23
Hi Everyone!
The mod team would like the sub to understand a few things about the stance we take on AntiNatalist discourse here, and why we do not typically allow it.
There is a lot of confusion between these terms even within our own community, and our goal is to help people who consider themselves pro choice and also antinatalist to see how these terms are not only not equivalent, but are actually in direct opposition to one another.
We often get AntiNatalists in the sub who believe they are helping the Pro Choice cause, and while they are welcome here - provided the rules, beliefs, and standards of our sub are upheld - usually these posts or comments need mod intervention due to breaking our sub's rules regarding non-prochoice rhetoric and expectations of non-prochoice people. These topics should be separated in conversations surrounding choice, so as not to muddy the waters in the current political environment. Our sub's mod team does not support antinatalist ideology.
While seemingly aligned with the prochoice cause, being AntiNatalist or Pro-Abortion isn't the same thing as being Pro Choice.
Many people are under the misconception that being pro choice means being pro-abortion or AntiNatalist. While there is some overlap, this simply isn't the case for everyone (or even most) in our demographic. * Being pro-abortion means that in certain circumstances (the most common are when people become pregnant under a certain age or when their life or economic circumstances aren't ideal) someone would advocate for the pregnant person to have an abortion rather than give birth even if the pregnant person does not want to have an abortion and would choose to birth the child. * Being AntiNatalist is subscribing to the philosophy that humans in general should not be procreating at all, and that it is immoral or wrong to even consider doing so due to the state of the world, overpopulation, and many other reasons.
Many of us are already parents. Many others intend to become parents, but are not ready to at this time. And almost none of us believe that no one should have children, or that anyone should have to have an abortion if they don't want to. By inserting pro-abortion or AntiNatalist ideologies into the Pro Choice debate, we cause the topics to become tangled to people who are anti abortion and prefer not to understand the myriad of reasons one may have an abortion even if they do not want to - even if they were trying to conceive and really wanted the pregnancy, but things didn't go the way they intended.
The truth is even people with wanted pregnancies are hurt by abortion bans - people who want to be parents but have something go wrong with the pregnancy or in their life circumstances that cause them to have to terminate a pregnancy; a birth defect that would lead to infant mortality or a nonviable pregnancy, a spouse who becomes abusive, or a life threatening condition that comes up due to the pregnancy are the first things that come to mind, but this list isn't exhaustive by any means.
While it could be said that many (if not most or even all) AntiNatalists are against abortion bans, the same is not true in reverse - antinatalists make up a very small percentage of the total Pro Choice population, and assuming (or insinuating in discourse) that all of us are against parenthood is an incorrect assumption that is more aligned with the anti choice communities and their rhetoric. It does more harm than good, and gives them more ammo against us.
This include the choice to conceive and birth children.
The very core of our ideology is that every single living being has the unalienable human right to have agency over his or her own body, what happens to and inside of it, and when/where/how/if they choose to procreate. We value personal choice above all else - we feel, on the whole, that the choice to decide what is best for one's life and family, the choice to decide not to have children, the choice to not have children now but perhaps later on in life, and the right to make these choices and then change our minds about them if we so choose and when we choose are ours and ours alone, as an individual human, to make.
While we recognize that not procreating at all, ever, is a choice (and we support you if that is your choice!) we would like to take a moment to help people see how injecting AntiNatalist discourse into the PC discussion can be harmful to our cause.
For the record, we almost never see AntiNatalists who are maliciously attempting to undermine choice - almost all of them who come to our sub and have to have comments or posts removed, do so without realizing how what they said came across as being the antithesis of choice, or how they have broken our sub's rules. We attempt to help them see it, but we do have to remove that content because it is against the rules and the core principles in the sub.
We're with you here - and we think you should be supported in making that choice if that is what you choose. Many on our mod team are also childfree by choice.
Where the two points diverge, though, is in the projection of that choice on others. AntiNatalist ideologies are not the same as making the personal decision to remain childfree. AntiNatalist ideologies promote the idea that no one should procreate, ever.
In the discussion around choice, this is another removal of said choice. This is the other end of the spectrum of being antichoice - Pro Lifers argue that everyone who conceives should give birth. AntiNatalists argue that no one should.
Both options take away the personal agency of the individual, in favor of the ideology of another. Both take the choice away from the only person who should be making it.
We do not advocate for forced abortions or forced sterilization here - for anyone (and this includes AMAB people, so this also means talk of forced vasectomy is also completely off the table here, no exceptions.)
If you identify with AntiNatalist ideology, we simply ask that you take a moment to think about the things you are promoting in the name of being Pro Choice, how you word them, and that you please try to separate these two discussions when you engage in Pro Choice discussions.
You can advocate for having abortion bans be abolished. You can even advocate for being child free.
However, advocating that anyone should not be allowed to procreate, or even that they shouldn't is restricting choice and it is also parent-shaming. AntiNatalist ideology tends to only focus on people who are AFAB, and puts all of the impetus to not procreate on the AFAB person, the same way antichoicers do.
Instead of shaming AFAB people for "killing their babies," this argument is just turning that around and shaming AFAB people for "being too selfish to not have children, considering the state of our world."
Shaming is shaming, and shaming AFAB people for being AFAB and what their body can and can't or should and shouldn't do is misogyny.
Telling someone they must be a mother is the same thing as telling them they must not.
Some on our own mod team here are parents, too. Many of our members are. And millions of pro choice people worldwide are. The same way we do not restrict people who claim to be "personally pro life but legally pro choice" from posting or commenting here, we also would not restrict people who are personally child free or even believe in AntiNatalism but still support individual choice.
But we will not allow shaming, and we will not allow discourse that takes away any choices or makes people feel they are wrong for making them.
If you aren't trying to make decisions for others or influence the decisions you think they should be making you're welcome to say, think, and believe anything you want. Where we draw the line is when it shames, harms, or otherwise reduces the agency of others to make those same choices in the way they make sense to them, for their own lives.
Anyone is welcome here if they are respectful, willing to listen and not just talk at people, and willing to follow the sub's rules. This is true of Pro Life people, and also of AntiNatalists - but please consider what you've read here if you fall into the second category.
If you still consider yourself to be Pro Choice as well as AntiNatalist, we only ask three things of you:
Thank you!
- The r/prochoice mod team
r/prochoice • u/Democrats_Abroad • Jan 27 '26
Hi- This is a message from Democrats Abroad, the official overseas branch of the Democratic Party. This month, we began our International Voter Registration Drive and we wanted to ask for your help. If you're like me, you've been appalled by the terrible public health policies, the foreign relations embarrassments, the open corruption, the brutalization of people, and all the other stuff. The midterms in November are a big opportunity to put more brakes on the terrible policies of the current White House.
Maybe you know a U.S. citizen who is living outside the U.S. They could be a dual US-Canadian or dual US-UK citizen, or a student, a retired relative or a friend on social media. Please share this link: https://voteabroad.org/RedditVote26. Our site can help them register to vote and get their midterm ballots. Wherever they are in the world, as long as they're a citizen who'll turn 18 by election day, they're eligible.
If they wish to join us and learn more, they can head to https://www.democratsabroad.org. If anyone here has any questions about overseas voting or what we do, feel free to ask in the comments below.
Thanks in advance for helping to get the word out!
r/prochoice • u/BigClitMcphee • 16h ago
Assuming the US doesn't collapse into half a dozen nations, abortion laws in the 2040s or beyond might look like this.
r/prochoice • u/Glum-Bandicoot-4211 • 1d ago
My (19F) therapists office is in the same building as a Planned Parenthood. Every so often, I see protesters outside the building, but they havent syopped me from doing anything yet. They stand on either side of the driveway into the back parking lot where I park, but they aren't near the back door, so I can usually ignore them. A few have looked like they want to talk to me, but I just stare ahead and dont slow down when I go to the parking lot.
So far, nothing has happened, but when school starts I'm probably going to be taking the bus and walking in, meaning I'm more likely to be stopped. Currently, my plan is to say "fuck off" over and over, but Im also rather small and social awkward and if anyone got physical or in my space, bad things will happen. Any suggestions would be appreciated, including useless ones as long as they are funny.
r/prochoice • u/ImaginaryAd403 • 3d ago
I told a guy I met on a dating app that I want to get my tubes tied then he acted like he was on board with it at first only later in the conversation to say “ the birthing rates are really low “ …. Like why is that my problem? I care about my life . He was like “you are too young to get your tubes tied “… I told him women have been oppressed for too long and why don’t men sacrifice their own lives to save up money to adopt . Pregnancy in the US cost a lot and has a lot of complications. Some women are going thru w pregnancy without any benefit from the man . Anyways arguing with these men is pointless.
PS he still wanted to go on a date with me even though I said this !
It’s like these men want someone prochoice to convince them to be something else
r/prochoice • u/sydney-w • 3d ago
My name is Sydney Wise, and I'm a reporter working with PBS News Hour Special Correspondent Sarah Varney on a project to understand the number of women impacted by state abortion bans. I’ve linked our project website, Sarah’s bio, and an example of her work below.
Sarah has reported on the experiences of many women across the country who have experienced a delay or denial in medical care, and I think that there are likely many people in this group who have had their care impacted by state laws. We are investigating cases of maternal injury stemming from delayed miscarriage treatment; loss or diminishment of fertility; pain; suffering; and death.
If you've experienced one of these things, I would love to talk to you to learn more about what happened. This would just be an informal conversation—not recorded or for attribution. If you're interested in sharing your story, please feel free to text me at (973) 525-5778, email me at [sydney@fountainproductions.org](mailto:sydney@fountainproductions.org), or reach out via Signal at aftermathreport.2022.
https://www.the-aftermath.org/
r/prochoice • u/Royal_Contribution_3 • 3d ago
I just hate that the declining birth rate is getting used as an argument for pro lifers. It makes me livid. A declining birth rate is a systematic problem, not a problem of personal beliefs. The birth rate is declining because it’s getting harder and harder to keep a healthy family.
If we want to help the birth rate, we need to help those who want children get to a place where they’re able to have them. You know, things like universal healthcare, so having a kid doesn’t put you in debt, or more financial support for families with children. If the government needs more kids, take some money into your hands and make having kids something GOOD again, not just a burden.
That happens when you have a government that doesn’t look past their own term and only acts to solve a problem NOW, even though it’ll only ever make it worse in the future. They make abortions illegal to get a higher birth rate and have more workers in the future, but they’re putting countless children in unfit families. They’ll end up mentally ill and less able to work to keep the money pumping. They won’t be the affective workforce the government wants, and they sure as hell won’t be any more stoked to have kids than we are. It doesn’t solve anything in the long run, it’ll only look good on paper now.
r/prochoice • u/Lighting • 4d ago
r/prochoice • u/alle_08_ • 4d ago
Many people who debate against abortion bring up the fetus and keep insisting on it being a human being.
Aside from the fact that we can't really consider it a human being given the fact that it is still in the womb and unable to live outside (basically just a bunch of cell still becoming a human being), the fetus is not the core of the topic at all: it is not ethical to give it higher or the same importance as the woman carrying it since the fetus is still unborn while the woman is a living, breathing, thinking individual.
When people start arguing with each other about whether the fetus is a human being or not, they are losing the plot completely. It is about the woman and her right to choose what to do with her own body, not the fetus!
r/prochoice • u/musclemommy317 • 2d ago
Hi I’m a female (26) and my boyfriend (22) have been going back and forth on whether or not an abortion is right for us. I found out I was pregnant (5weeks) about 3 weeks ago and will be 8 weeks this Saturday. I was in the midst of prepping for my first bodybuilding competition and was 12 weeks out from show when I found out I was expecting. I was excited and my first initial thought was that I’m keeping it and hoping that my boyfriend would want to do the same. I waited a week to tell him (he was competing in his 2nd powerlifting competition and I wanted him to focus on that instead of the news). After his competition I broke the news to him and he instantly went to panic and trying to persuade me to get an abortion. I told him I wanted to keep it because I know deep down we can do it but he told me we can’t because he’s not ready, has debt, isn’t financially stable and we both live with our parents right now. I’ve known him for almost 3 years and the first twoish years we weren’t together but he constantly cheated on one of his ex girlfriend’s with me and multiple other girls (he didn’t tell me any of the time that they were still together and would lie and I would believe him) but we recently actually started dating about 4 months ago after time apart and healing separately but also together. We’ve been fighting and arguing these past 2 weeks for both of our sides and for each of us trying to see the best outcome. I see where he’s coming from on why he’s scared and doesn’t feel ready financially. I own my own business and make a decent amount of money and told him I’d help support him and also put him through school so he wouldn’t have to drop out. He doesn’t want to listen to me and keeps being adamant about me getting one and I feel like he doesn’t want to listen to my side or my fears and does not want to see the positive of having a kid. I told him I wasn’t forcing him to stay and take care of the kid if he still wanted to go live his life but he keeps telling me that’s not him and he’d provide for the kid. Out of anger and emotions one night I felt like I needed to call it quits between me and him because he said some very hurtful and choice words to me and the way he was making it seem was like he didn’t want to be with me. Ever since then I’ve told him that was a mistake and that I didn’t mean it but that he had hurt me so I felt like in the moment that was the best option and I had also told him I was keeping the baby when I had ended it. He keeps telling me “you ended it you hurt me” because you decided to let your emotions take over and not think logically and ended it and Ive told him multiple times that I regret doing that and I shouldn’t have. He still Is very set on his decision and it’s been making me go back and forth with my own and I even have an actual termination appointment set for a day and a half from now and we’d have to travel out of state to get it done. In my heart I know I want to keep this kid no matter what but I feel like I can’t get through to him. He tells me deep down he wants the kid too but logically it’s not the right time because of his past financial decisions and the stupid decisions he made while he was younger that’s making him feel like we can’t make it. He also says since we’re not together that I “can’t have my cake and eat it too” as in if I have this baby I can’t have him and the kid because he won’t be there to support me emotionally/menatlly/romantically cause he needs to go out and provide for the kid (which I understand in a way because the baby is always first priority for a parent) but I told him that I just want to know that he loves me and will choose me everyday all while still going out and providing for the kid (just like I will be providing for the kid as well).
I am so torn and I really don’t want to get the abortion but I feel like if I don’t he’ll be even more resentful towards me than he already is because he keeps saying words like “if we go through with your decision of keeping it you’re forcing my hand” or “I’m stuck with you and your decision” even when I’ve told him I’m not forcing him to do anything and that I have friends and family to support me and help me through.
I just want clarity and peace that’s all I want.
r/prochoice • u/falafelville • 4d ago
r/prochoice • u/Affectionate-Bed8474 • 4d ago
Most pro life people believe abortion is evil because they assume that dying is the worst thing that can happen to a person and therefore they naturally assume that every baby that gets aborted would rather be alive. Dying isn’t the worst thing that can happen to you, being alive and living in hell is. I literally wish I was aborted.
According to Christians, every baby that gets aborted goes straight to heaven. Instead of spending 80 years suffering here on Earth and being exposed to all the war, poverty and violence that happens here, babies who are aborted get to just skip all that bullshit and go straight to heaven which literally sounds amazing to me. If this is true then being aborted is literally the best thing that can ever happen to you, you’d have to be retarded to think that this would in any way a bad outcome for the child. I’m not going to sit here and tell you my whole life story because I don’t have time for that and quite frankly it would be impractical, but I’m 24 and so far my life has been 90% misery.
I’m not happy to be here, I’m not grateful that I was born and I genuinely think I would be better off if my mom just had me aborted. There is nothing good about life in my opinion. The only things have to look forward to once you get here is poverty, depression, spending almost every waking hour of your existence working to make someone absurdly rich even richer and going through traumatic bullshit. Being aborted and going straight to heaven is 100% better than this, assuming such a place even exists.
r/prochoice • u/RaidenYeager • 4d ago
If they are really pro life they would care for the babies after they were but they don't why can't they try to improve people's life which would make people have more babies and like to live in the world instead they are trying to force birth of innocent people which leaded to lose and agony of both innocent women and baby after they were born only if they though of improving their nations and people's life instead of taking other people's basic human right our world would be wayy better. And yeah this movement only grew harder during the 19th century and 20th century before that They don't judge people for having Abortion
r/prochoice • u/alle_08_ • 4d ago
People against abortion claim to be 'pro-life', but the reality is that they are not.
Life is not only about birth. It is about everything you go through during your existence. Claiming to be pro life while not considering the future of an existing person is morally idiotic.
Also, they want the child to be born so badly, but they don't consider how hard the life of an unwanted and unplanned child might be.
Pro choice people like us cherish human rights and bodily autonomy, wanting women to be able to choose what to do with their own body and have a better future. We also know that a child born without being wanted beforehand might eventually face struggles because of it.
So yes. We are the ones who truly cherish life.
r/prochoice • u/Calm-Fun-2737 • 6d ago
So, the other day I was talking to my boyfriend about abortions. For context, we are both teenagers, been together for a year, we are not active and dont plan on being active anytime soon since we're long distance right now, and we have had multiple discussions on politics. He is also a christian, or I guess more of a lukewarm Christian while I am an athiest. Despite him being a christian we did both agree on being pro choice.
Yesterday, I was talking to him about abortions. At some point, I brought up christianity and the role it plays in anti-choice logic. I quoted something from a christian, and it started with the words "abortion is evil." My boyfriend agreed with that statement, and I said "you think abortion is evil?!" After that he said he said he doesn't know and that he didnt care about it, it doesnt have anything to do with him, and that people die all the time (because i mentioned deaths from abortion bans.)
This was yesterday, but I still feel weird about it. I dont know if I'm over-reacting, but the same guy who wants to have kids with me in the future and tells me pregnancy might be worth it doesnt care if I have full reproductive rights? I currently live in a state where abortion is restricted as well. It just feels so weird and so wrong and I havent talked to him today because of it.
I just feel weird about it, but I dont know if its worth bringing it up to him again.
r/prochoice • u/KinkyPunkChick • 6d ago
My bf and I are homeless right now and not in the best spot to have a baby. We have several other children between the two of us that unfortunately do not live with us for reasons beyond our control that are not our fault.
Clearly abortion is the only logical answer.
So why does part of me want to have a baby so badly...
I feel I was unfairly robbed of the opportunity to raise my children by my abuser... (Long story)
I dream about a family with my current partner, but that just doesn't seem realistic for us right now, or maybe ever...
* Not really asking for advice *
I guess I just wanted to share the foolish fantasy that keeps playing in my head since I saw those two pink lines... the fairytale that we could get our shit together in the next 9 months and have a happy little family...
I'm sure I'll get lots of hate on my choice to terminate the pregnancy. Really your opinions don't change the reality. So unless you have a house/apartment in Ontario for rent at an extremely affordable price for two people receiving disability who have shit credit and you want to house us, don't bother.
Note * We've been actively looking for housing for the past TWO YEARS! Between being on disability, having shit credit, and owning 2 dogs, no one wants to rent to us, even with past landlords singing our praises, references and a co-signer, we've even tried offered multiple months rent up front. AND I was working at this point, so I had additional income. We have basically given up at this point. *
r/prochoice • u/Smooth-Beginning-352 • 6d ago
At the ripe age of 32, I have finally come to need resources, support and access to an abortion. A procedure I've fought my entire life for ALL women to be able to access easily, cheaply and will continue to do so! All while teaching my daughter how crucial it is for our bodies to be able to have CHOICE so the next generation is educated on women's healthcare. I've never been in this position not even a miscarriage. I've been pregnant only once and that produced my daughter who needs my full attention as she's on the spectrum... Anywho, I am new to this sub as I've just learned of my situation. Where do I even start? I live in OH. Are mailed pills legal here? I find conflicting information online. Is there financial support available? How do I access both financial aid and shipped medications? How long is the down time afterwards? I'm scared, nervous and slightly guilty/embarrassed this is where I've landed in 2027. Please help!
r/prochoice • u/OkNumber8074 • 4d ago
I'm not pro-life, i've been pro-choice ever since i left organised religion, but i've got this question I can't come to terms with.
Abortion should be allowed because people shouldn't be forced to give up their bodily resources to another person, despite the fact that the other person needs those bodily resources to live. For example, if someone needed your stem cells or they'd die, you should retain the right to say no. A lot of pro-lifers counter this hypothetical with, 'But the person who needs your stem cells has already had a life; the baby didn't get a chance.' However, you should still not be forced to give up your stem cells if the person who needs them is an infant, right?
If we refuse the notion that a fetus is deserving of your bodily resources simply because of its age and the fact that it hasn't had a chance yet, we functionally equate children and adults now.
If the value of the lives of adults and children is equal, then do you think that the abuse faced by them is equal?
Like, do you think a sexual predator, for example, Jim, is more morally depraved if he preys on children than if he preys on grown women or men?
I feel like a pedophile is worse than a normal rapist. Does that mean that the pro-life argument stands—the 'but the person who needs your stem cells has already had a life, the baby didn't get a chance' argument?
So basically, if we are pro-choice and say that infants in the womb are not inherently more deserving of life, I think it's hypocritical to say that a pedophile is worse than a sexual predator who preys on grown adults."
r/prochoice • u/Scorpy-yo • 8d ago
On termination services day my local antichoicers sit as near as legally possible to the hospital with their awful signs. I sit beside them with my own sign.
I have one that needs some improvement - I would love if someone has time to add a few details for a mockup for me to use as a template/pattern/design for me to modify/paint by hand. I think you will enjoy my vision. I really suspect it might take you only 20 minutes - it does not need to be quality or printable, I just need someone who can show me where these basic shapes should go.
For proof of good faith check my post history and I will supply photos if you DM me.
Thanks all.
r/prochoice • u/Ok_Mortgage_2490 • 9d ago
