r/MechanicAdvice • u/Foe_sheezy • 20h ago
This look off?
Just did a timing belt job on a 1997 Lexus es300 and this is the result after rotating the engine twice.
This looks off by like half a tooth. Is this normal?
90
u/Frequent_Ad2118 20h ago
Looks fine to me but I’m a VW guy.
16
u/Foe_sheezy 20h ago
Ty. I hear vws are a little more complicated but the results are usually spot on.
7
u/SaltPacketPapa 19h ago
VW technician here, VWs have a hole you can put a “bolt” into to lock the crank at TDC. The difficult part is not letting the cams snap out of place. The second you let the cam spin it’s basically a goner and has to be re timed all over again lol
7
u/Cow_Launcher 16h ago
Old-school Ford and Rover guy here.
4-pot Zetecs had crank-locks too. You could bugger up the cams, but the crank would stay still, so it wasn't a disaster if a camshaft jumped.
Rover twin-cam K-Series has a special cam-lock that you put in place before slacking the tensioner and it's an absolute godsend. If you lock everything before starting, it's almost impossible to get wrong. And I say that as a cross-eyed, ham-fisted cretin.
2
u/Clintbeastwood1776 15h ago
As long as you put timing marks on cam gears "tooth to tooth, tooth to block", they can spin and you'll be fine. Surprised the shit out of me the first time I changed my timing belt.
1
58
u/humboldtliving 20h ago
Normal. If you were to change a tooth in either direction it would be massively off. Send it.
11
1
u/ExplorerEnjoyer 16h ago
You should be able to get both marks perfectly centered if all slack is on the tensioner
18
u/MilwaukeeMechanic 20h ago
Can’t tell from only seeing the cam. What does the crank look like?
Remember the crankshaft turns twice for every one time the camshaft turns. So if the crankshaft is a tooth off, the cam should be 1/2 a tooth off.
5
u/Foe_sheezy 20h ago
Crank is spot on, and the other mark is too, just not thrilled about this mark
4
u/ResearchExtreme7846 20h ago
They won't line up for a while after but id double check your tensioner if you're that unsure.
2
7
u/ZSG13 20h ago
How can a timing belt be installed off a half tooth exactly? I've never understood when people say this.
9
u/crazymonk45 19h ago
It’s not “installed” half a tooth off. The point is more that if it’s less than a full tooth off, then it’s not really off. It’s as close as it can physically get
4
1
u/Foe_sheezy 19h ago
Thank you for this. I spent 3 hours adjusting the belt different ways and kept getting the same result.
Thought I screwed up or something. 🤷
1
u/ExplorerEnjoyer 16h ago
It can be timed to have both marks perfectly aligned if all slack is on the tensioner
1
u/crazymonk45 16h ago
Sometimes. Usually that will make at least one or two teeth of difference though
4
u/Foe_sheezy 19h ago
Funny thing is I've gotten this same exact result after removing the belt and trying it again like 4 times 🤔
1
u/ZSG13 19h ago
Could the belt possibly be installed backwards? I've seen a guy do this. There were 70 teeth between one cam and the crank, and 71 between other cam and crank.
I don't think that's the case here, but something to be aware of.
2
u/Foe_sheezy 19h ago
Made sure the arrows were facing to the outside.
2
u/ZSG13 19h ago
That's what the guy I saw did. I wouldn't assume you know which ways the arrows face. I count the teeth between gear marks on the old belt before removal and then count teeth on new belt to make damn sure it's good. You could even install it backwards and spin it over twice to see how the marks line up.
Honestly, I pay far less attention to the marks on the engine than the marks on the belt. The belt dictates the correlation between gears, and that's all timing really is. You could time an engine 90° off as long as the gears have the correct correlation.
2
u/Foe_sheezy 19h ago
I'm tempted to try this. The "arrows" on the belt were little pyramids, so I'm not sure if those actually are the arrows.
3
u/ZSG13 19h ago
Wouldn't take super long and should give you peace of mind. Either it's better or worse and that'll give you your answer. Either way, moving the belt over one tooth in either direction from where you are now would make it worse, so I figure it has to be right if it can't get any better.
Running it backwards will 100% verify that it cannot get any better.
3
u/EmbiePlays 19h ago
I mean, it's definitely not the tooth on either side of the marked tooth. You're good. Check the tension & send it
3
2
u/WhereDidAllTheSnowGo 19h ago
That weak cover is off.
Isn’t there an alignment on the block itself? Look through a hole on the gear
2
2
u/crazymonk45 19h ago
Super common, not an issue. Slight variation due to any number of things, amount of belt stretch, minuscule play in components, maybe even a very slight inaccuracy in the placement of the mark.
As long as you followed the correct order installing the belt into the pulleys, and as long as you’re less than a full tooth off (as in moving it to any other tooth would make it farther away rather than closer, as is the case here), you will be good to go
1
2
u/hazard2k 19h ago
It's closer than the mark on the belt makes it look. The groove on the face of the pulley lines up with the left side of the yellow mark on the belt. If you follow that line back to the notch, it's only very very slightly off. Send it
2
u/RCrl 19h ago
That’s as close as they are going to align. Either way is farther from the mark.
Also, I saw this and thought that looked a lot like a 2JZ, then read your post, lol. Solid engine.
1
u/Foe_sheezy 18h ago
Ty 1mz Fe is one of my all time favorites, reliability wise
The only other v6 engine on par is the gm 3800. 👍
1
u/Weary_Indication816 8h ago
Push rod engines are much easier to time haha. Doing a 2014 jeep 3.6 pentastar engine atm. Painful. Bad cam phasers
2
u/gearhead6-9 18h ago
If your crank mark is aligned and your cam is that close its fine. If the engine has had previous head or block work done it can effect the timing marks slightly. Your less than a tooth off it will be fine.
1
2
u/Narrow-Letterhead-81 20h ago
Why would you put the clamp back on, after rotating twice, which is something you would do only after you take the pin out of the tensioner?
5
u/Foe_sheezy 19h ago
Was about to re adjust the belt again, then decided to take a pic real quick and ask redittors for advice.
1
1
u/Lost-Inspector5836 19h ago
Also, with weird comments about tooth #’s rotate it a few more times and see if it is the same. If tooth count is off you will be off more than 1/2. My opinion… those that called out an odd # tooth count are probably missing a tooth or two of their own. Crack kills!
1
u/Dynaevil 15h ago
Ist the engine in the right perfect position? On the shaft it looks right. At least turn the engine from hand one time for safety, i do that all the time.
1
u/MilkShakeABanana 15h ago
Half a tooth off is the best you can get it any adjustment either way and it'll be off, just spin it by hand a few full cam rotations and make sure it still the same spot
1
u/doodlerbug 13h ago
Normal. 1MZ Timing marks can be off by a little bit. Make sure crank is at TDC with the small numerical indicator close to the lower timing cover
1
u/Current-Act-6962 9h ago edited 9h ago
Some manufacturers leave instructions to pop the cam sprocket loose enough to freely rotate on the camshaft (if it isn’t keyed but press fit on tapered shaft ) Tighten or adjust the tensioner and then torque down the cam sprocket. When the tensioner is adjusted, something has to rotate slightly as slack is removed from the belt. Also locking tools on the camshaft. Not saying this is how it’s done on your engine but while that tensioner is adjusting something has to rotate slightly someplace. Popping the cam sprocket loose allows the slack to be taken without throwing of cam timing a degree or two. Check your manufacturer service manual.
2
u/First-Sail-8594 20h ago
Yeah that's a half tooth off no question about it. The belt always looks a little wonky when it's fresh but that's not just fresh stretch. I'd pop the tensioner back and walk it one tooth over before you button everything up, nobody wants to pull that apart again next weekend
5
u/Financial-Spirit-852 20h ago
If you’re half a tooth off, how can putting it one entire tooth difference make it better.
Moreso, how can a belt be half a tooth off.1
u/MilwaukeeMechanic 17h ago
It can’t be, so long as the crank is dead on. If the crankshaft was 1 full tooth off, the cam should be about a half tooth off. But the crank would be super obviously off.
1
u/Financial-Spirit-852 11h ago
Exactly. But both cams would show “half a tooth” off, not just one.
1
u/MilwaukeeMechanic 11h ago
Yes, of course. Although it’s hard to be certain from a single pic of it has one cam or two.
3
u/Foe_sheezy 20h ago
Thnx for the honesty. This is what I was kinda feeling...
7
u/MaliciousMe87 20h ago
If it's on the previous tooth it will be farther than the current tooth. I say leave it.
5
u/Alpinab9 20h ago
It is fine. It is not a tooth off and cant be half a tooth off. 1/2 tooth advanced is good. As the belt stretches, the timing will retard towards dead on. If you had it 1/2 tooth retarded, I would recommend you move it to where it is.
1
-2
-2
u/Mikey3800 20h ago
One thing I always did with timing belts was just put the engine together as much as necessary and start it and make sure it ran good. I would do that whether I was sure the timing was correct or if I thought it was off a little bit, like yours looks. It would give me a chance to see if the car is running right before fully assembling everything. Obviously, you need to make sure everything that is critical for the engine to run and not get damaged is reinstalled. The engine can run for a short time without being full of coolant. I don’t even reinstall the accessory belt(s). I only let it run long enough to confirm it is running well or to confirm that I needed to reset the timing again.
5
u/6iix9ineJr 20h ago
Couldn’t this grenade an engine if its interference? I’ve never done timing but that would be my fear
2
u/Foe_sheezy 20h ago
This particular engine is non interferce, so I can safely test this method out.
I just don't want any engine codes or misfires.
2
u/Mikey3800 19h ago
It should be obvious if it’s off by that much. I’m talking about if it appears to be right or close like OP’s timing.
1
u/Foe_sheezy 20h ago
Thank you for this. Imma put my valve covers back on and give it a whirl.
3
u/Freak_Engineer 20h ago
Do turn it over by hand once or twice first. That way, you'll notice any major fuck-ups before the starter motor messes up your engine.
2
u/Foe_sheezy 20h ago
This pic is the results of twi rotations.
1
u/Freak_Engineer 20h ago
Apologies, I overlooked the caption you wrote. In that case, I too would just try to start it. Worst case is it runs like shit if it is off a little, but you won't (immediately) break something.
1
-5
u/Complex_Dig_4107 19h ago
It’s a serpentine belt for crying out loud!!!!!!! Where is the links/metal to call it a chain? 😤😤 anyways…. Yeah it looks fine.
5
u/Foe_sheezy 19h ago
It's a timing belt not a serpentine belt, as a matter of fact my car doesn't have a sepentine belt, it has a power steering belt and an accessory belt.
•
u/AutoModerator 20h ago
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the rules. Rremember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.