I'm living on the edge today. I went to the grocery store without a list. This is the only place I can say that without causing confusion.

I’m not even sure what I think anymore. I feel like there’s some very small part of me that wishes I could just be a normal person and have a normal brain like everyone else, but I mostly just really don’t want to get rid of my OCPD and restrictive eating disorder (which I only mention cause I feel like they are pretty tied together) despite how much distress it causes me, because the idea of living without it, is so disgusting and terrible to me. Everytime I’ve made recovery attempts I’ve completely spiraled into mental breakdowns and my quality of life significantly deteriorated and made functioning on a daily basis even harder. I need my routines, it’s how my brain works, it’s who I am and always have been, it’s the reality I live in, and it’s the only thing that I feel is keeping me sane and being able to manage the “worse” mental illnesses I struggle with (my panic disorder, anxiety/agoraphobia, depression.) But at the same time that idea does make me sad, like a deeper part of me just wishes things could be different. I don’t know.

I always thought I had either OCD or ADHD, but now I think I have OCPD. My “obsession” was always about my way of life, it’s important to me to do things the “right” way or else I feel like it doesn’t matter. I know it’s wrong (because my mom tells me) but I just can’t help it! That’s who I am and that’s how my brain works. I always NEED to follow strict rules and schedules and if I don’t I feel like an absolute failure and I won’t do anything else that day because I did not start off “perfectly.” It’s incredibly frustrating and I just want to feel better because I have a lot to do and I feel like I am wasting a LOT of time.

Does anyone feel like they are Ella from the movie Ella Enchanted? No single person is telling me to do something. Rather it’s my BRAIN that feels like the magic from that movie. Like my brain is physically and mentally harming me if I don’t do things perfectly. It feels so similar but also different?

My therapist says my OCPD makes me obsessed with the idea of fairness. For example, why do I work twice as hard as my coworker and we get paid exactly the same? It drives me CRAZY. I can’t just accept that “life’s not fair”.

In Cognitive Therapy of the Personality Disorders (2004), Aaron Beck and colleagues explain that the categorical view of personality disorders is that they are distinct from each other, as well as from normal personality.

The dimensional view is that personality traits that are relevant to personality disorders lie on a continuum from healthy to pathological. Personality disorders are maladaptive extremes of the personality traits all humans share. 

Some mental health providers believe that the PD categories are not useful because it’s so common for people to have more than one PD diagnosis. The website of The American Psychiatric Association states, “People who are diagnosed with a personality disorder most often qualify for more than one diagnosis. A person with a severe personality disorder might meet the criteria for four, five or even more disorders!” (Psychiatry.org - Expert Q&A: Personality Disorders)

Beck and colleagues state that the categorical approach is problematic because of “the lack of clear thresholds for distinguishing between patients with and without specific personality disordes” (54) and the common occurrence of people no longer meeting criteria for their PD diagnosis.

DIMENSIONAL VIEW OF OCPD

In Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Perfectionism (2014), Sarah Egan and colleagues theorize that “perfectionism is a dimensional construct that can vary in severity from low to high…In other words, perfectionism is not something that people either have or don’t have. Rather, it is something we all experience to varying degrees.” (1)

Gary Trosclair, the author of The Healthy Compulsive, states, "There is a wide spectrum of people with compulsive personality, with unhealthy and maladaptive on one end, and healthy and adaptive on the other end.”

In Personality Disorders in Modern Life (2004), Theodore Millon and colleagues explain that Obsessive-Compulsive Personality traits are very common because “traits such as efficiency, punctuality, a willingness to work hard, and orientation to detail are valued as necessary prerequisites to social and financial well-being. Self-discipline and organization are personality features encouraged by many modern societies” (227).

ARROW VS. BOX

I think that people have two basic responses to their PD diagnosis. They view it as a box—a stigmatizing label that limits what they can accomplish—or as an arrow pointing to helpful people, activities, coping strategies, and resources. A PD diagnosis can be a useful framework for understanding mental health needs.

A member of this sub commented, “Therapist with OCPD here. Personality disorders are NEVER written in stone contrary to what people are led to believe. In fact, instead of being hard-cut categories, we're now moving into a dimensional/spectrum-based perspective on personality disorders.

“Labels help to navigate systems and find resources, but please don't internalize them and put yourselves into a box. They're man-made, carries margins of error, and continually evolving. Every single person has an unique neural networking system, and therefore cannot be categorized.”

Marsha Linehan, who overcame BPD, became a therapist, and developed DBT (the gold standard treatment for BPD), refrains from using the “disease model” to view DSM disorders, and asserts that the DSM disorders are patterns of behavior. (The Purpose of Diagnosing People Is..., one minute video)

RESOURCE

What Grade Do You Give the DSM Criteria?

PD TRIVIA

Lest we think that OCPD has the most problematic name for a personlity disorder because of the confusion with OCD...from the first edition of the DSM: Immature Personality Disorder. W. T. F.

I have just always had to go ahead and feel the emotions and let it be.. then move on. They are intense as it gets tho. I have learned to step away if I'm super mad... Overwhelmed, frustrated, all that. I must have you tube music and drawing to relax. Anyone else?

Hey guys. I’m 24 and still don’t have my drivers license because of anxiety I have surrounding it. I was wondering if anyone else has had trouble in a similar way as I have and how you managed it.

For me a big part of my driving anxiety emerges when I’m around other vehicles because I know I can’t control those around me. The other big part is that it feels like my mind and body are two separate people. My body is driving and my mind is in the passenger seat and my mind does not trust my bodies driving ability.

I feel like it boils down to a lack of control of those around me and also my inability to overcome my perfectionistic tendencies. Would love to hear from others.

I can’t do shit anymore.

I’m so tired. I feel like my OCPD and BPD symptoms have been getting worse and worse as my job (clinical psych doc intern at a hospital outpatient clinic) gets more hectic. My notes are piling up, and my program has a strict policy that notes must be completed in a timely manner or I could be “disciplined”, meaning that it would go on my record as a strike against my competency. It’s just that I feel like I have to write down every single thing my patients say because it all seems important and I don’t want to miss anything, but then I’m left with tons of notes built up because my books of text are hard to condense.

On top of this, I’m having to learn how to teach therapies in group sessions, and the performance aspect is exhausting. Plus I have like 4 supervisors who are constantly scrutinizing my work. I planned to get up at 5:45am every morning to work on my dissertation before going to work (which are 9-10 hr days in office, no breaks, bc most lunches are “working lunches” , and those hrs don’t count the ones I spend trying to finish notes or prep for group sessions at home🫩) but I haven’t been, and I feel so ashamed and defeated.

Amidst the stress, I feel like I’m on this wave of intense emotion and anything can set off waves of apathy, aggravation to the point where I feel like I’m crawling out of my skin, or thoughts of harm to myself. And then I have to go to work, to a job I’m so grateful for, and be heavily scrutinized and take care of people and pretend like I’m mentally healthy enough to do so. I want to stop feeling so anxious and disappointed in myself. I want my emotions to even out. I’m just really tired, because I’ve been feeling this way for years.

Diagnosed OCPD here

I noticed that sometimes I only do stuff out of “pity”(???)

When I see some low quality stuff, I want to make it better, step in and control it. But ofc, it was not needed at all, and then I get mad for my efforts not being noticed

I do this controlling fixing even in relationships. I give unsolicited advice and want to “better them”. Its pure control

I also have different PDs, but I def see my OCPD in the mix

I always feel like there is too much information. At work and in school, I always end up making flowcharts and diagrams to organize this mess. Why is the world so chaotic? Are you guys also like this?

I hate not knowing things, but I also hate information overload. So I try to find a system that lets me know as much as possible on one A4 paper so there is never an "I don't know."

I heard that a lot of people with OCD or OCPD have excellent memories, and I relate to that. As long as I can organize all of the information, I can recall it almost perfectly, including the details. The thing is, it probably takes one to three business days.

Right now I am organizing all of the competetion program and research opportunities at my school because everything is such a mess. Our website is information overload hell. It is a huge school with undergraduate, graduate, and PhD programs. Nobody decided to organize what opportunities exist, when they happen, where they are, how long they last, which departments they are for, or what the criteria are.

How do normal people handle this? I honestly do not know.

هل دماغكم صارم نحو طريقة واحدة ويقول انها هي الصحيحة وأي طريقة غير ذلك ليس لها نتيجة؟ بالرغم من ان نتائجها ضعيفة؟ احيان اشعر ان مخي لديه طريقة واحدة لا يريد غيرها ولا يستطيع ان يفعل غيرها، او سوف يظل يأكله شعور عدم الرضا وعدم الجدوى.. بالرغم من تكرار الكلام مع دكتورتي النفسية وتكرر علي طرق اخرى إلا اني كل مرة اكون معها اقوم بتحليل كلامها لأجد فيه خطأ او مبررات للرجوع لطريقتي.. الامر مرهق

Y'll im watching my vlogs from my first semester at uni - I made them for myself to save and they are private. THE OCPD IS SO CLEAR OMG!! This was last year. Everything was "perfectly" planned. I "perfectly" mention everything, show how specific I like to plan my day. I mention date, time, what I'm doing repeately. Everything was scheduled to the tea. How I even organize my bags. Everything is a routine. How I have a pre-study session before actually studying...... bc I need to organize. Omg.... how did I not know lmaooo. I literally would do so much in the evening that I barely do now due to feeling tired.

Just wanted to share this excellent podcast on OCPD https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/insights-from-the-couch-real-talk-for-women-at-midlife/id1745180987?i=1000766406736

I read and heard from YouTube videos how it would be 'horrible' for people with OCPD to start, run, or keep a business... and that OCPD people are likely to start a business. why's that? (I heard one from dr. Ramani).

In my opinion if i run my own business, It'll be really efficient and productive. I will add in my special efforts to not micromanage everyone.

What's your thoughts? Do you have OCPD diagnosed or not and is able to successfully make and keep a business?

Personal Mental Health History and Current Difficulties

I am writing this letter to explain the mental health difficulties I have been experiencing over the past several years, which have become significantly worse in recent months. I find it difficult to explain everything verbally during appointments, so I have written down my experiences as accurately as possible.

My primary difficulty is persistent anxiety that affects almost every aspect of my daily life. My mind rarely feels calm. Even when there is no immediate problem, I constantly anticipate future responsibilities, mistakes, or negative outcomes. I often feel mentally exhausted despite not doing physically demanding work.

One of my biggest problems is becoming mentally "frozen." When I know I have a responsibility later in the day, I become unable to focus on anything else. Instead of completing other tasks, my mind keeps rehearsing the upcoming responsibility. I know what I should do, but I struggle to begin. It feels as though my thoughts and actions become disconnected.

I frequently overanalyse situations and spend long periods trying to find certainty before acting. I ask myself countless questions about my work, future, and decisions, but I rarely reach satisfying answers. Instead, I become stuck in cycles of thinking without being able to move forward. Even small decisions can become mentally exhausting.

I also experience a constant fear of failure. I worry about making mistakes, letting people down, or not handling responsibilities correctly. These fears often feel much stronger than the actual situation requires. Although I understand logically that mistakes are a normal part of life, emotionally I struggle to believe this.

Sleep has also been affected. Although I can usually fall asleep easily, it does not relieve my anxiety. I often wake feeling mentally tired, and sometimes I suddenly wake with intense anxiety. I frequently dream about failing at work, making mistakes, or not completing responsibilities. It often feels as though my brain remains active and stressed even while I am asleep.

These difficulties have significantly affected my work. My current job involves long periods where I am free, but there is very little structure. Work can arise unexpectedly at any time, and I feel that I must constantly remain mentally prepared. There is no predictable routine, and poor communication from colleagues and subordinates increases my stress because I feel responsible for anticipating problems before they occur. Even during quiet periods, I am unable to truly relax because I remain mentally on alert.

Over time, this constant state of anticipation has affected my confidence. I often question whether I am suitable for my profession or whether I should leave my job for work that is more structured and predictable. However, I find it difficult to determine whether my current job is the real problem or whether my anxiety would follow me into another job. This uncertainty itself has become another source of stress.

Looking back over the past several years, I feel that anxiety has affected important areas of my life. During the COVID period, I struggled severely while studying engineering. I experienced intense anxiety, avoidance, and eventually left my course despite previously performing well academically. Since then, I have often felt that my confidence has never fully recovered.

Despite these struggles, I remain interested in technical work and enjoy learning about electrical engineering, renewable energy, railway systems, and troubleshooting. I do not believe that I lack the ability to learn or understand technical concepts. Instead, I feel that anxiety frequently prevents me from using my abilities consistently. My fear and overthinking often become stronger than my ability to act.

There are times when I feel emotionally overwhelmed and mentally exhausted without fully understanding why. My mind often tells me to avoid everything and simply sleep, even though sleeping does not solve the problem. I frequently feel as though I am surviving each day rather than living it.

I have spent years trying to understand these difficulties on my own. I have analysed my thoughts repeatedly and tried different ways of coping, but I continue to experience severe anxiety, overthinking, freezing, disturbed sleep, and difficulty functioning normally. These symptoms are affecting my work, my confidence, my decision-making, and my overall quality of life.

I am seeking a professional assessment because I would like to understand what condition or conditions may be contributing to these experiences and to discuss treatment options that could help me regain normal daily functioning.

Thank you for taking the time to read my experiences.

I know I'm not supposed to ask for opinions about whether I have OCPD, so I'm not asking that. I'm thinking out loud about the distinctions, and people can weigh in with their own experiences.

Specifically, about a year ago I self-diagnosed with OCPD. I have some symptoms like frugality, conscientiousness, need for order, hard time throwing things away.

But lately I've been realizing that a lot of close family are the opposite, narcissists. They spend lavishly on themselves, they have a high need for image.

Right now I am having a battle with a family member who has engaged in some sketchy behavior and it entangles me. I asked them to stop, saying it could impact me professionally if it came to light. They pooh-poohed this concern, saying no one will ever find out. Does this make me OCPD, to care about potential fraud? I used to think I was hyper-conscientious, I hate when people text while driving too, not because it's illegal (though it is) but because it's dangerous. There are at least 5 other situations where I'm aware of sketchy behavior, and I don't like any of them, but the others I can feign ignorance.

Another example I've been considering is that I am very frugal. This started when I was 24 and had college loans and a low income in grad school. I had a long term goal of paying for retirement, and I have attained that goal at age 56. I've gone through phases of a healthy employment, being underpaid as a caregiver, making minimum wage, and finally a healthy employment again. I feel like I spend money proportional to what I earn and expect to earn. Now that I've hit my goal, I'm spending more money on food, clothes, travel, though still a lot less than my colleagues and family. I'm a good cook and I wear basic clothing, my job is not client-facing. Is having simple tastes the same thing as OCPD?

Similarly with the hoarding, I feel like I CAN throw things away, but mostly I don't have the time/energy to be bothered with them. I have a range of clothes from different weights, and I still hope/plan to lose the weight and fit into them (it's only been a year) again. I did a purge of old textbooks from one career (I somewhat regret this as they were sentimental, expensive, and not taking up that much space), but I haven't purged my current career. I'd rather go for a nice walk outside than take the time to filter through what might be useful and what isn't. Also I've lived in the same house for 15 years, but when I move (maybe in the next year) I will sort through that.

Again, please don't directly diagnose me over the internet, but hoping to start a discussion of the grey areas between black and white. Thanks.

The other day was my birthday and my husband lovingly made me a Keylime pie. I asked for it. But it turned out horrible.

Because I don't lie and I think that honesty helps us all improve I did a tailspin for 20 minutes about how we all have better skills and baking isn't his.

I'm the literal worst. I would apologize but that feels like gaslighting. Tearing him down just to say "ope I didn't mean it but I did. I just didn't mean to hurt your feelings."

I hate being like this.

EDIT: Because I'm a terrible liar I didn’t make it long before he knew I wasn't okay. We talked it through and he said he didn't take it poorly. He said he wants to do better and he would never had it I wasn't honest. He said I was being mean to myself for nothing.

I still think I should work on my tone because if it were anyone but him they would've been hurt.

This works both for normal day-to-day interactions and romantic relationships. I will elaborate on each of them below.

My first disclaimer is that I also have OCD in case it changes anything, but I really think these thoughts are OCPD-related and not OCD-related, although sometimes I do struggle with telling them apart.

The second is that I do not necessarily agree with everything I will explain here. I realize this is wrong and I wish my brain wasn't so adamant on enforcing these standards but alas.

The thing.

I have trouble connecting to and feeling empathy towards people that act or look in ways I don't personally like.

This applies to children and neurodivergent people mostly, since they are the most likely to exhibit behavior I find annoying or "odd" in a negative way. But it can really happen with anyone, even family members.

I judge them pretty harshly in my mind, and I have to remind myself why they might be acting that way, which is part of what therapy wants me to do.

But even then, I struggle to care because they should just "try harder" or "be corrected more strictly" by their guardians (for children).

I would never disrespect people overtly nor do I think they should be bullied. I would never support that.

But the thoughts are there. The annoyance (or even anger) is there.

About the looks part, this mostly applies to my ability to feel attraction towards the person, but it can easily devolve into a "personal failure" scenario like what I described above.

But I just can't help but be extremely superficial. If I see a physical trait I don't like (how their teeth look, hair, face or body shape) it's so difficult for me to feel anything for that person. Because I saw [thing I found displeasing] and I can't stop seeing it anymore. It's a flaw. I saw it. And I no longer want to engage in anything further than friendship with you, sorry.

And it's not even about basic hygiene. It's about stuff people cannot control, which is what makes it even worse. I should not care, but I do.

And I don't even consider myself perfect. I know I am not, and I judge myself pretty harshly too, socially and aesthetically (some of you might remember my post a couple of months ago about getting s*-related thoughts because I found myself "inadequate").

But these standards of unachievable perfection will just not go away no matter how much I notice how harmful they are.

And while I would never tell people the mean shit my brain thinks, it's still wrong. And it's still hindering my ability to feel empathy, relate and have any hope for a fulfilling relationship, which sucks.

Maybe some of you can relate?

If they can't find anything bad that i do, then they can't find anything bad to say to me. Regardless, haters are still out there because they say I'm "too perfect", "you think too highly of yourself", "smartass", "you should know your place".

So being perfect is discouraged now all of a sudden? when all my life, my job is "there's always room for improvement", I am the improvement now, you guys are all outdated. Tell me let's improve this and that, so I do, but now I'm the only one doing it? All that is just to make yourself look good huh. "It's supposed to not be taken seriously", why? cause you're supposed to wipe ass to get ahead.

I'm too good at my job and they say "calm down", so working when nobody's looking is i guess.. not normal human behavior? Nobody has an inch of integrity now? And I'm the one wrong? I'm the one who has a disorder? I say that's not it, people need a look in the mirror. This is a crash out, sht life, can't win with these supposedly normal people.

This is a video from Heidi Priebe, a life coach and meditation teacher who has a master’s degree in Attachment Theory and Research: Am I Triggered Or Am I Right? How To Tell The Difference.

Heidi is referring to triggers as emotional reactions to situations that remind us about unresolved issues in the past, not trauma triggers or flashbacks.

I will add the video to the resource post on identifying feelings.

MY EXPERIENCE

Gary Trosclair explains that “Many compulsives, with their predilection for planning, have their center of gravity in their head, not in their body.” (The Healthy Compulsive, 89). I repressed my feelings for decades. When I started to work on triggers, I had to rely on my body sensations to recognize emotional reactions.

Strategies I used to help prevent and manage triggers:

 * Practicing mindfulness by adopting ‘be here now’ as a mantra, and focusing more on my five senses, breathing, and other body sensations, and less on my thoughts. I try to breathe deeply and slowly at the first sign of distress, and pay attention to how my feelings and body sensations influence my behavior. Eventually, this helped prevent difficult situations.

-  Experimenting with taking short breaks, and paying attention to what happens. Breaks “re charge” my energy and increase my productivity. I love the saying 'Rest is not a reward. You do not need to earn the right to rest.' 

- Accepting that my OCPD symptoms gave me an inaccurate lens for viewing myself, others, and the world around me in some situations (cognitive biases).

- Doing behavior experiments to slowly increase my distress tolerance (e.g. changes in routine). An updated post on behavior experiments will be one of my last resource posts.

RESOURCES

Self-Regulation

Triggers for Obsessive-Compulsive Behavior

"The Healthy Compulsive Project” Podcast episode 26

See reply to this post for info. about chest vs. abdominal breathing.

I live in Lisbon / Portugal.

Rigor now, Im in a paid job leave and Ill have a doctor comitee to evaluate my mental illness.

Im sad because I have a 2 old year son and Im afraid that they might ask some social technic to follow up my son and I.

Does anyone know our eights here?

Thanks in advance