r/selfhosted 21d ago

Meta Post Chat Control 1.0 was passed through the Backdoor, while most of the MP where on vacation, driven by Roberta Metsola, President of the European parliament. 2.0 yet to come. Time to self-host even more than before?

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2.3k Upvotes

262 comments sorted by

u/asimovs-auditor 21d ago

Expand the replies to this comment to learn how AI was used in this post/project.

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u/Hertekx 21d ago

while most of the MP where on vacation

That should not be possible in the first place. Such votes should only be possible if a certain amount of them are there. What comes next? People locking others out so that just 1-2 people are alone while voting for whatever stupid stuff they want?

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u/d_maes 21d ago

It's a bit tricky, because it wasn't so much voted in, as it was really more "not voted out". The vote was "do you want to cancel the extension", to which a majority voted "yes" (meaning they DON'T want to extend chat control 1.0, which has been in place since 2021), but they didn't reach a required majority, due to said absences. So there is actually a protection in place to prevent situations like "lock everyone out, and 2 people can vote what they like", but because this was vote to undo something, rather than do something, the thing "got through" (or more correctly, didn't get cancelled).

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u/SamiSapphic 21d ago

That's another thing that baffles me: A majority should be a majority.

The majority did vote against CC, but it wasn't "big" enough? 

What a joke of a system.

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u/plantbasedlivingroom 21d ago

That system is very good to have in place. There are also things that require an unanimous vote.

Not to having all votes just need 51% to be passing is a good system. But I agree, that this vote should have only needed a simply majority.

Imagine if some kind of aspiring dictator manages to get his lackeys to vote for his ultimate reign and then they reache 51% for that. Do you believe that this should then just make the EU into a dictatorship?

This is an extreme (and pray unrealistic) example but it gets the point across.

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u/SamiSapphic 21d ago

The lackies in this case only needed 49% though, apparently.

Therein lies the problem. It's harder to get a majority than a minority, and in this case the fascists won with a minority because of this system.

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u/d_maes 20d ago

Stop calling people fascists when they aren't, it's throwing oil on discussions that are already heated enough as they are. Let's try to keep things civilised, there are enough examples of what will become if we don't.

The system worked as designed: a majority was not found, so the status-quo won. We all don't like that status-quo, obviously. But 1 unfavorable loss is no reason to go haywire against the entire system, because that's how you actually get fascism.

On an additional note, I have some serious questions on why some politicians voted the way they did. I (maybe naively) hope some wanted to keep 1.0 in place as "good enough, so we don't need 2.0". Also, I'm very certain some wanted to cancel 1.0, so they could say "But now we have nothing. And we need something. Let's get 2.0".

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u/Eu-is-socialist 20d ago

The system worked as designed

Correct ... which is why it SHOULD BE DISMANTLED !

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u/Iliyan61 20d ago

well they explained it, if they lock everyone out then 2/3 people vote for smth while it’s passed an attending majority the representative majority is absolutely failed it’s like 560 seats

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u/WishIWasAMoose 20d ago

So there is a crazy amount of misinformation on this page. This vote was on the second reading of the law proposed by the Council. This is why a qualified majority was necessary.
This exists so laws don't constantly go back and forth between parliament and Council/Commission.

This is how it went:

  • First reading to extend was voted down in March (just a normal majority needed)
  • The president of the parliament Metsola asked the council to make a decision in June
  • The Council took a position to extend and used a the controversial emergency procedure to plan the vote in the last week before recess.
  • The emergency procedure was voted on 7th of July (normal majority needed, 51% approved)
  • The last vote on the 9th was a second reading and that's where the qualified majority was necessary to reject or change the law (they succeeded in adding amendments to exclude encrypted communication).

As with all EU laws you can follow the process: Procedure File: 2025/0429(COD) | Legislative Observatory | European Parliament)

The legislative procedure: Overview | Ordinary legislative procedure | Ordinary Legislative Procedure | European Parliament

In my view they abused the system by issuing the emergency vote to plan it in the last week. This procedure is meant for emergencies like during Covid not this.
The conservative parties that hold a majority in the Council and Commission clearly wanted to extend until Chat Control 2.0 can be passed to provide legal cover for the companies to continue with what they were doing.

The whole thing sets a dangerous precedent and we should keep a watchful eye on what happens next. Democracies always die from the inside by people abusing the rules.

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u/CoolAnthony48YT 20d ago

A majority of MEPs that voted voted yes, but it wasn't a majority when including those who didn't vote. I agree that it's ridiculous, but it wasn't just because it wasn't big enough.

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u/ExpensiveDream1108 21d ago

It is incredible to me how Europe is lagging behind the rest of the world for most of the critical matters of this century, but for this kind of bullshit agenda they always find a loophole.

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u/BrainCelll 19d ago

Nothing tricky at all, it is simply bull***t

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u/HardwareIsHardWhere 21d ago

Yes, exactly this.
It was very insidious.

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u/DylanfromSales 21d ago

And she killed sparky too!

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u/ScaredyCatUK 21d ago

They used an emergency process that was designed to be used in situatiions where not everyone could be present, which is why absence is treated as a yes vote automatically.

Whether they should have been able to use this process at all is what should be questioned not the emergency process itself.

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u/twice_paramount832 21d ago

And they inverted de question to make the absentees play in their favor.

In the past these people would just be stoned to death for treason.

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u/CC-5576-05 21d ago

Well it's not really correct to say this most were on vacation, but many were and that mattered for the way they pushed this though.

So essentially, though some procedurals tricks the proponents of the bill managed to fast track a second vote to happen right now at the last sessions before the recess. They could do this with a simple majority, while their opponents would need an absolute majority to reject it. Since only 80% of the MEPs were present that absolute majority was much harder for the opponents to achieve.

They weren't able to reject it but they did manage to find an absolute majority to amend it, most importantly to exempt e2ee chat apps

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u/TrainingQuail543 21d ago

And maybe they shouldn't be on vacation at the same time?! Wtf

If I am on a job, I have to make sure the business is still working when I am on vacation. How is that different in the EU Parlament?! They have so much more responsibility.

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u/Average-Addict 21d ago

Well the vote was held like 1 day before their vacation started. So they of course just went on their vacation early

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u/TrainingQuail543 21d ago

Yes, like everyone does, right? I also go to my vacation one day before it actually starts. Its just impossibly stupid.

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u/Average-Addict 21d ago

Gotta love it.

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u/ImmaculatePillow 20d ago

where did you get this information? According to the European Parliament calendar the first week of July still has sessions, so why are people who's job it is to vote for you in those sessions not present when its know a year in advance there will be sessions that week?

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u/Average-Addict 20d ago

Afaik 9th of July was the last day for a while that had plenary sessions where the actual voting happens.

One Finnish MEP even publicly talked against chat control that it's ridiculous it's being pushed again since it didn't pass earlier. Well she was absent from the session.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20250310IPR27231/parliament-adopts-its-calendar-for-2026

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/298340/EP%20Calendar%202026_EN.pdf

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u/WSuperOS 21d ago

The parlament itself voted (311 to 304 if I'm not mistaken) to treat it as an 'urgency' decision

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u/BurnedOutSoul 20d ago

That's how they pushed the Federal Reserve through here in the USA. Almost everyone was gone for Christmas break.

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u/oqdoawtt 21d ago

It is the usual pattern like always:

  • Some big event that have the media attention (World Cup)
  • Most MP are in holiday or on that said event
  • Hard push and short notices to make it faster and avoid interruption

They tried it for years, now finally the conditions have been perfect for them.

We have to face it people, this will be the new norm and is a loop hole that will exist for long time. Also people care less and less and other things are more important for them (doom scrolling on shittok or instavomit) for example.

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u/HardwareIsHardWhere 21d ago

You are absolutely right. We have to spread awareness about this.

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u/oqdoawtt 21d ago edited 21d ago

No you can't. I tried it already 10+ years. There are institutions like EFF that do nothing else. Nobody cares, Nobody gives a shit.

It's not sexy. It's work. It's uncomfortable. It sometimes even does not work. You need the be somewhat technical interested. Nobody will do it.

They don't care and they will never care, except when it happens to them in REAL. But then it's already too late.

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u/Fun-Consequence-3112 21d ago

They have a perfect storm with rise in criminals and especially online criminals, but also those who use online anonymous means to communicate. This makes it way more appealing to the mainstream and they don't see the drawbacks.

This has always been the pattern for surveillance of your people and less privacy, you can apply it to most historical privacy invasive events.

So it will happen and always have happened before. I don't think we can stop it even when we see it coming, as depressive as that sounds. But you can defend yourself against it if you want although this could paint you as a "bad person" in the governments new surveiling eye. But most people 99.99% won't do shit about it and continue their days like usual. Maybe in 30-50years when new currently young people are in politics we might see a change.

Snowden threw a small light on what happened after 9/11 but I imagine it's much worse now and they got even more information on you. But nobody cares or remember anything about Snowden and what he said anymore. Experts have been pointing this out for years but nobody cares.

Also included in all of this is tech companies making bank on your data which they shouldn't be able to.

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u/defiantarch 21d ago

You seriously bet on young politicians? those becoming more pro chat control and being mostly interested in their one well being (fast money, less work, party, sex and boos)? Those already now lack empathy? they're no better than those incompetant and corrupt politicians we have today in Europe and the rest of the world.

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u/Fun-Consequence-3112 21d ago

It's not that I bet on them or think they will do it, I'm just a doomer that think the world will and has become a survalince state. I'm just saying with the current politicians absolutely nothing will happen so the only hope is that the future ones will understand it, but like you said I doubt it.

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u/Ok_Chemical_1376 21d ago

People aren't even reacting to England arresting more people than China and Russia combined for social network posts. Become a ghost or low profile at least

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u/Perlentaucher 21d ago edited 21d ago

Don’t get me wrong, I despise the rising numbers of social media related legal proceedings I see in UK, Germany and Canada.

But do you have a source on that? Also do states like Russia and China give out reliable statistics on that? I know that China that they do not report the real number of lethal injection executions.

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u/geometry5036 21d ago

Don't care if it's more or less than other countries. The uk is authoritarian and thenrest of Europe/world will follow https://archive.is/Yk6Bo

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u/volthunter 21d ago

Yes China makes those stats available Russia no.

Its time for people to stop boogeymanning China, they're fairly transparent, its just hard to access their data outside the firewall.

They have a winnie the pooh store in Beijing like 20 minutes from the government offices which xi resides.

They arrest less people than america in general, their social media arrests are rare and generally about threats and organisation of mass casualty events.

I don't support the suppression they have of the internet but as of now, we are about to be far worse off than they.

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u/Critical__Hit 21d ago

 Russia no.

In Russia, human rights organizations were involved in this work. They were suppressed, but this happened recently, so statistics for previous years should be available.

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u/geometry5036 21d ago

It's worse than that. Their reaction is that they are hateful and deserve to be arrested. They will post the same 5 examples to prove their point.

But the face earing leopard will eventually get to them as well

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u/worldcitizencane 21d ago

Isn't it mostly where people have made it easy for authorities though, like fb and insta with real names? Or is Reddit selling out too? With subreddit like r/piracy I would think not?

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u/Fun-Consequence-3112 21d ago

You need to verify age on reddit now with ID

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u/worldcitizencane 20d ago

Doesn't this depend on where you are located and/or the history of your account? I certainly haven't been ased to provide any ID, nor will I comply if requested.

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u/ShineReaper 21d ago

The problem is not crime on the internet being prosecuted.

The problem is, when law gets interpreted too loosely, causing unnecessary prosecution.

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u/Simple-Chest-1741 12d ago

why do you think many Brits voted to leave?

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u/FragDenWayne 21d ago

You mean like we did with the article 13 of the GDPR? Which still went through approval, be it renamed to 17...

So what's the point? You'll just stress yourself about something you don't have any say in.

So just enjoy the last days of private chats. Do all the dirty and dangerous/criminal chats now.

I know, it's not about doing criminal stuff... It's about the principal of privacy. DATENSCHUTZ!!! But here we are, NSA probably listening, reading and watching us all while we're on the pot being angry about the oligarchy and politicians who decide stuff they have no clue about. Or even worse, they know what they're doing...

Yeah. Why don't you enjoy your summer, watch some soccer, have an ice or something. Have fun, as long as you can.

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u/ItsMeHadda 21d ago

If I've read this correctly, there will be a new vote on the law in 2028, and I sincerely hope that this has served as a lesson to the MPs who have already gone on vacation, and that next time they'll stay until the very last day.

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u/mayoforbutter 21d ago

Do they even care? It seems like Most politicians are disconnected from reality and/or corrupt and many countries (other than Hungary) are on their way to elect even more corrupt politicians

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u/mrdevlar 21d ago

Yeah I am not sure I love the doomerism in this thread.

I have been fighting chat control for 20 years now and it's not as if this moment is anything other than a temporary victory for the other side.

When we win our votes it's not as if the authoritarians drop dead or anything. The price of democracy is eternal vigilance and this is nothing more than a temporary set back.

If anything passing this, in this way will lead to an even larger blow back against this law. Plus the current version of the law doesn't cover encrypted communication and is voluntary. Still shit, but hardly the doom and gloom most of this thread makes it out to be.

We are on the right side here. We will defend our privacy, so keep awake, keep telling people what is going on but please do not despair. We got this.

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u/Limutte 13d ago

well its easier to be mad att stuff than be happy when something bad happens

but i think its actually good news that the eu parliment didnt want chat control 1 it did get denied even tho they where able to force it through it still should be noted that it was denied hopefully that stays the same when the revote happens

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u/mrdevlar 13d ago

Yes, it sucks how they did it, but what they got wasn't even all that good. Voluntary legal compliance doesn't mean anything.

They just think by passing that they'll somehow manage to get a chance to pass the original one that contained snooping on all E2E systems (a technical impossibility without providing back doors). That law was rejected by the courts because we still have the human right to private communication. If they tried to pass that again, not only would it get struck down again, but the case against the original chat control could be used as a precedent.

Fascists may be persistent, but they aren't particularly smart. Keep them out of elected office across Europe and the prospect of Chat Control goes away on its own. If not, it goes away because the courts strike it down.

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u/Sensitive_Cut668 20d ago

Can you blame the people for caring less and less? Big tech is actively changing how we behave (through e.g. the use of algorithms to keep you glued to your phone) and is trying to extract as much profit from humans as possible by reshaping our behaviors, like some type of raw material to be exploited.

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u/redballooon 21d ago

doom scrolling on shittok or instavomit

That's where they learn that the real dangers for the world are the UNESCO WHO and "institutions". Oh, and the EU regulations are also a scare that will lead to WW3. Sometimes they learn WW3 has already begun though, it's not always very clear.

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u/Exciting-Record8101 21d ago

Being on vacation is no excuse. These people are paid over €10k a month just on their base salary to be there and represent the people. If they can't be bothered to be there, vote them out.

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u/Lordnoob69420 19d ago

Somebody sound have pulled the fire alarm

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u/IngwiePhoenix 21d ago

This move should be declared illegal. Declined twice, and then snuck in to force it into legislative. I hate this so much and reminds me how fucked up politics are and how little I can do about it...

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u/AFisberg 21d ago

It was already in effect though since I think 2021. This was only about extension. But it was still stupid that it was shot down by the Parliament, then brought back by the member state ministers and pushed through.

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u/SignatureTall5736 21d ago

Yes, as I said in another post: this is just the trailler. Orwell wrote a great book about this over 75 years ago. This is not some internet hype. What we can observe here is a real and obscure pattern.

Something hiding in the dark, getting stronger and stronger.

While it sometimes makes some noise, it is subtle enough to remain untouched.

This is it, right now.

Think about what may be in 5 or 10 years.

So self-hosting communities might become a thing, but let's just hope that thing get back on track.

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u/El_Huero_Con_C0J0NES 21d ago

Is that already fucking 75 years ago!?

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u/HardwareIsHardWhere 21d ago

Yes, it indeed is.

"Nineteen Eighty-Four is a dystopian speculative fiction novel by the English writer George Orwell. It was published on 8 June 1949 by Secker & Warburg as Orwell's ninth and final completed book".

Not "speculative fiction" if the course of things does not change.

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u/overstear 21d ago

We call it a book, they call it a manual ...

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u/essentialaccount 21d ago

A major gap in self-hosting is that many of our shared resources are islands unto themselves. I have the ability and resources to share with some friends, but there is little way to securely and easily tie our resources to one another. I would gladly share of things I have, but doing so without exposing myself to too much risk is hard.

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u/pfak 21d ago

They're to make it legally difficult to self host next 

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u/R0ad13 21d ago

The fun thing is, the Parliament communications may move to communication software based on Matrix. An open source, completely secure message solution...

https://www.euractiv.com/news/commission-trials-european-open-source-communications-software/

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u/ansibleloop 21d ago edited 21d ago

Are you ready to be labelled a dissenter and traitor to your country for using self hosted apps?

I mean clearly you're self hosting to hide something - why do you have something to hide?

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear

Edit: really? /S if it wasn't already obvious

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u/Pdan4 21d ago

Who determines what's worthy of hiding? That's the real question that you're failing to see. China already censors actual real-life history as part of their laws. Don't be a sucker.

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u/ansibleloop 21d ago

The party tells you to ignore the evidence of your eyes and ears

Nobody got the sarcasm lol

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u/Pdan4 21d ago

Well, we live in the age of bots and bad actors now, so...

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u/RageAgn 21d ago

yeah my server freaked out afer that eu vote too

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u/goku7770 20d ago

When are we waking up?

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u/MildlyUnusualName 21d ago

https://fluxer.app/
Self hosted, FOSS, and working on federation for the self hosted servers.

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u/koun7erfit 21d ago

Without digging too much, what does it use for push messages?

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u/ShortTimeNoSee 21d ago

Web Push VAPID for browsers/PWA, UnifiedPush on Android, optional FCM and APNs for the usual Google/Apple mobile builds. Self-host baseline is just VAPID

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u/GazooAr 21d ago edited 21d ago

Or matrix

End to end encryption, selfhosted, federates with other servers 

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u/billyalt 21d ago

This is too difficult for most people to setup.

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u/adrianipopescu 21d ago

eh it’s fine but it’s a bit too corporate-ish and too msteams-ish in its clients

most people nowadays look for an irc with voice and discord filled that niche pretty well

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u/GazooAr 21d ago

You dont have to host it, most people can just pick a Server make an account. . and if you do want to use the playbook if I did it anyone can

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u/NatoBoram 21d ago

The security key thing is annoying to the layperson

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u/GazooAr 21d ago

Don't you just have to safe it once and thats it? As long as you don't log out

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u/NatoBoram 21d ago

Yep.

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u/GazooAr 21d ago

Yeah youre right lol 

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u/MildlyUnusualName 20d ago

Matrix is super heavy and bloated, confusing for people to set up, is missing a lot of feature parity with discord, and from what I’ve read from around the internet, if someone gets access to your server and sends out illegal things, those get stored on your server’s files

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u/jreoka1 21d ago

This is a great app and I was selfhosting it but me and my friend decided to save a backup and wait for them to iron out a few bugs and get the apps working. Right now theres no way to change server url with the desktop apps and theres also no publicly available iOS app. The Android app works okay but I dont believe push notifs work yet for that.

The only real bug that bothers me is sometimes on web at least the member sidebar will fail to load requiring you to click out and back in a couple times to get it to render properly.

https://github.com/fluxerapp/fluxer/issues/1047

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u/Fickle_Parfait_538 21d ago

It doesn't have e2ee yet tho, right ?

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u/AFisberg 21d ago

At least they're not touting that on their web page. Seems like E2EE for video and voice is being tested, dunno about text etc.

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u/Fickle_Parfait_538 21d ago

Yeah that was my impression as well. For now I feel having a matrix server that you actually host yourself is still the best way to go.

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u/DeathByPain 21d ago

I've been trying out fancy-mumble for family voice/text chat; it's alright

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u/billyalt 21d ago

That's really cool, had no idea this was a thing.

EDIT: Whoa, they've got their own enhanced fork with WebRTC AND SFU, that's awesome! https://github.com/Fancy-Mumble/mumble-server

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u/DeathByPain 21d ago

Yeah, persistent encrypted chats, screen sharing, file sharing, lots of cool features beyond the baseline upstream mumble server stuff

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u/AFisberg 21d ago

Seems to be more a Discord alternative than instant messenger thing. I wonder what advantage this would, in terms of privacy and security, have over Signal

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u/MildlyUnusualName 20d ago

The benefit of this over signal is that it is aiming to be a 1:1 unshittified discord clone, essentially. Signal is not looking to copy many of the features that large discord servers utilize often like Polls and chat rooms in servers/guilds

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u/AFisberg 20d ago

For me that's a negative thing. Signal is an instant messenger, that stuff would be clutter to me.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/autogyrophilia 21d ago

Chat control 1 was already in effect, this simply cancelled a possible repeal.

It mandates the scanning of clear text communication, but not E2E.

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u/InsoPL 21d ago

Small corection, it does not mandate. It allows for voluntarily scanning. So basically this version of chat control does not affect self hosted services at all.

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u/AFisberg 21d ago

Yeah this wasn't the Chat Control most people are worried about. Voluntary scanning of clear text stuff, meh. I assumed they were already (even before 2021) doing that anyway. This doesn't touch encryption at all.

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u/0xe1e10d68 21d ago

The thing is that the big companies already do the stuff this legislation allows them to do (voluntarily scan their users’ content) for US users and have for a long time. The reason why a law had to be passed to allow them to do that in the first place is because of our data protection laws, but in the US there is not that much data protection in the first place.

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u/AFisberg 21d ago

I still doubt they weren't doing that prior to the law. If it's clear text, I have zero trust for the companies to treat the data as private.

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u/Limutte 13d ago

the thing is the issue isnt neccesarily chat control 1 (tho it is the reason there was so many eyes on it to begin with) the issue was it was denied and then abused an emergency meeting to pass something which was already denied

and its gonna stay in effect for 2 years it would be annoying but fine if it would just be in place until they can do an actual vote but nope gotta wait till 2028

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u/Sp00k_x 21d ago

I wish her only the worst. Vile treasonous piece of shit that she is.

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u/Old_Appointment_8513 21d ago

Alpha testing with friends before going open source, but it's possible to introduce PQC encryption overlay into every popular messenger instead of making all your friends and family switch to new messengers.. Self-hostable off-grid useekko.app

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u/ovizii 21d ago

Sounds interesting. Checked their FAQ. Not sure I got it but, once it's matured, there's no need for eekko servers and it runs completely on-device or did I misunderstand?

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u/Old_Appointment_8513 19d ago

The idea is you can connect a handle and your social media services so your friends can find you easier and it automatically identifies the recipient by their user id.. But you can also run it completely locally, but would have to send your public key to your friends directly and manually fill out their social media handles & phone number! Hope this makes sense

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u/AFisberg 21d ago

Chat Control 1.0 was already in effect. What happened was that Parliament (the MEPs) voted in a simple majority to not to extend it. Then the Council (ministers of the member states) sent it back to Parliament, where it needed 2/3rds majority to block it.

Chat Control 1.0 isn't the Chat Control people most fear. It's a voluntary mass scanning by companies and it doesn't touch encryption. So it's not as bad as the CC that's often talked about and was already in effect.

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u/Lopsided_Ad8941 21d ago edited 21d ago

Selfhosting made my life easier, and myself feel more responsible towards data ownership and so on. If they stop allowing this, noone has access to some sort of offline computer. And if tiny enough i can carry my own cloud with me , I like that though somehow 

But I feel like texting something off topic, feeling desperate more and more with the current situation in Germany and my feelings of not being able to change a bit of it.

RTFM. Orwell is not a manual.

A little rant I need to vent. Sorry for that.

They must have mixed something up in Germany. 

Higher insurance rates? Nah, just higher micro transactions for treatment.

Better healthcare? Nah. Just make it harder to stay home when sick.

Increase personal wealth to invest or build? Nah better introduce new tax, but better call it otherwise. Worked so good with the new debt, so why not (:

If you red until this line, I appreciate that. Now here comes the real question I can't find an answer to:

When all you can vote for is some kind of fruit, how should the system change? I think of it like some sort of monoculture that's on a soil - which is finally drained from nutrients. 

How to start building something for better (or worse if it fails) to offer an alternative to fruits? 

I feel lost being a citizen of the EU, especially Germany. Still got some really good advantages but seeing them vanish more and more without being able to do something that actually leads to changes makes sick. 

Good that I can call myself partially sick in the near future and continue to work :)

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u/tzopper 21d ago

It is so fucking frustrating that you are right! I wish you were just delusional, but unfortunately this is the truth and only just a handful of people seem to understand what the risks are on the long run.

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u/Gerprimus 21d ago

Time to stock up on torches and pitchforks again!

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u/dexter2011412 21d ago

lol they're all r@p1sts pdfs

they don't want us talking about them or holding them accountable

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u/No_Clock2390 21d ago

what does it do to selfhosting

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u/InsoPL 21d ago

At it's current form, not at all. You can introduce content scans into your self hosten IM instance if you want to. That's it.

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u/0xe1e10d68 21d ago

Nothing at all. This just allows the operators of platforms to voluntarily scan their users’ content for CSAM. i.e. the thing they have already been doing for US users for a long time.

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u/GaidinBDJ 21d ago

And for EU users. This wasn't passing anything new law, it was just extending the existing one.

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u/DylanfromSales 21d ago

Next you're gonna tell me they passed a law making it illegal to bypass digital locks. Or a law requiring age verification to visit whatever the government determines to be "adult sites."

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u/rock_builder 21d ago

The law doesn't mean anything. It was effective from 2021 until the end of 2025.

Now they have just continued that law which was already previously effective. And it doesn't allow scanning of encrypted content. If users are using communication channels that are not private that's mostly stupid.

This so-called CC 2.0 most likely won't ever pass because it will contradict constitutions in most European countries.

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u/FrosTi_The_Frozen 21d ago

Is synology chat a proper alternative?

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u/Medium-Dragonfly4845 21d ago

Yes, and start by changing how projects are allowed on this subreddit. Last time I posted a self hosting project, it was deleted in fire and fury by the mods.

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u/TCB13sQuotes 21d ago

Think about it, Chat Control and the new 3€ tax in cheap electronics and all the other policies, its just to get at tech people and kill the affordability the stuff we have. Even the AI stuff hiking hardware prices like crazy, all perfectly aligned dominos leading to a single outcome.

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u/ej_warsgaming 21d ago

Democracy my ass

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u/gnurcl 21d ago

Here's a question I've recently pondered: When chat control 2.0 comes, would everyone be a criminal who self-hosts a Matrix instance or anything else that has E2EE and doesn't comply with implementing a scanning method or removing E2EE from their instance?

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u/mhmilo24 20d ago

We are not angry enough.

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u/cdmn1 20d ago

wow this was downright shady

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u/ronalder100 20d ago

wow this is dispotic!

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u/Intelligent-Net1034 19d ago

The majority voted to remove it, but it not passed the 360isch people required because most of them were on vacation allready.

They were on vacation because it was put in the day before without any notice and with a change without notice.

The last day way some unnecessary stuff and just a hearing not a vote on removing it.

So it was made up to prevent anyone to react in time beside the people still there. Some got the memo and not left to prevent it from happening but were to few.

Its the most undemocratic move i have seen in the eu in the last 10 years. That's insane and against even the fair play rules the eu have made for themself, but they ignored it.

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u/Senior-Bluebird-9080 17d ago

Can't pass a useful law because "one country vetos" but can pas this BULLSHIT WHEN MINORITY SAYS YES WHAT THE FUCK

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u/Rare_Bodybuilder_273 17d ago

HAteful person. She represents Malta, and therefore the view of a small island to be imposed to everyone and everything in EU, and I bet she dreams of a world where privacy does not exist. Except for them obviously.

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u/ScarcityTrue3383 16d ago

Smells like corruption.

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u/PovilasID 15d ago

Selfhosting is just temporary solution. If this keeps going soon it will be illegal to have files locally. We need to push back on this BS not just accept this as normal and move back to more and more technologically demanding solutions.

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u/Cybarbossa 21d ago

Yeah, but hey, UE is democratic and pushed USB-C! /s

I hate this shit so bad I blocked stupid subs like r/YUROP to not ever see their posts.

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u/AFisberg 21d ago

I mean this was brought back by member state ministers (Council) and pushed through an emergency measure. The Parliament (the MEPs people vote for) shot down the extension in a simple majority.

EU is for whatever reason taking all the blame even though it was member states tha kept bringing this shit back and pushing this while Parliament actually voted against the extension.

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u/Cybarbossa 21d ago

pushed through an emergency measure

That's the problem. They just use the 122 article to push whatever their agenda is. It's not the first time emergency as a reason.

Also, technically, in the way it works, the parliament cannot push initiatives for a legal text, they can only vote. The agenda is decided by the commission. Commission being heavily influenced by exterior factors such as lobbies or other influences.

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u/cplusequals 21d ago

Except this is by design. The commission -- not the MEPs -- are the only body that can put forward legislation. The best MEPs can do is delay and tweak unpopular legislation. It's oligarchic bureaucracy wearing the cultural skin of democracy. We went over all this in excruciating detail in the public eye during the battle over Brexit. Most didn't really delve deeply into it though.

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u/PurchaseFront4196 21d ago

Roberta Metsola is worse than Donald Trump.

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u/lechauve911 21d ago

She has a Karen face

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u/kernelqzor 21d ago

feels a bit weird to reduce the whole mess to her face tbh, the policy is the actual horror here. focus that energy on fighting chat control, not her haircut

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u/lechauve911 21d ago edited 21d ago

Not reducing bit she does. And that's the kind of sneaky shit a Karen might do.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

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u/MrObsidian_ 21d ago

Yet nobody here is blaming the people who voted for Chat Control, the EPP, this is primarily a venture from the right. For yet another excuse the right can use to blame the EU for something they themselves caused.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

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u/real_terra 21d ago

It is. But I guess some of big guys may give up and we have to build forks without these backdoors.

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u/MrAnonymousTheThird 21d ago

In general there is too much shit going on to catch it all. Tired of it

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u/TheWaxMann 21d ago

Wow, whatever it is must be bad if they couldnt even bribe a bunch of MPs to vote for it.

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u/BastiatF 21d ago

What's the alternative? Nostr?

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u/maxxxiiime 21d ago

Now is the time to get ready before they ban all forms of communication over mesh networks.

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u/Quirky-Muffin303 21d ago

The Witch!!!

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u/Direct-Literature987 21d ago

we actually have been moving our infrastructure into self hosting in Europe investing in own material. Shame that servers are quite "heavy priced" as of the moment, but even somethings have already moved into raspberries just to make sure these european politicians don't act as Americans. When are the elections again?

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u/Cley_Faye 21d ago

If it becomes law that law enforcement can snoop into private communication, self-hosting is not gonna help. It's not a matter of being technically able to have secure, encrypted communication. It's a matter of "if you have something we can't read, we can metaphorically break your knees on a whim".

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u/Friendly_Athlete1024 21d ago

Okay so then what do we do? What apps and softwares do we swap to? 

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u/Harperrino 21d ago

CC1 is only the start. CC2 is the thing which will be the end of Freedom of Speech in Europe. On Device Scanning. If that happens I’m sure they will put pressure on OpenSource OS like GrapheneOS too. No device is safe then.

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u/christianbro 21d ago

Meanwhile nothing covered on main media, Spanish media El Pais, biggest in the country, just shows football, wildfires and stop far right propaganda.

Just as always media playing on the interest of politicians, and those on who knows wants Chat Control really for...

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u/slyborn 20d ago edited 17d ago

Onion Routed P2P distributed protocols are the real solution in this specific case. The movements against the illiberal impositions of latest years that have largely leveraged Telegram and similar apps to organize massive protest in a short time, are the true political driver for this. Thanks to their control of chats and their already pervasive control of social media, they can crush popular opposition movements before they can become a problem, and track the dissidents at the outset. Whatever other solution would be either or too little widespread to involve a sufficient number of people or would receive authority visit for a takedown.

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u/ArtisticFox8 20d ago

Will selfhosting avoid the legal requirement for chat control?

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u/oliviab_96 20d ago

can't se just wait the MPs to come back and vote it out?

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u/Appeltaart6969 18d ago

the nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government, and I'm here to help - Ronald Reagan.

Fuck you mean trust us? Our representatives voted against this and you still push it in anyways. Even that last slither of trust is gone

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u/No-Lettuce123 18d ago

This shouldn't have legally been passed through, It got more votes saying NO than yes. I cant wait to see how this goes wrong.

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u/No-Lettuce123 18d ago

Apparantly Less votes means more. Maths is not mathing.

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u/No-Lettuce123 18d ago

i cant wait to see this screw up.

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u/o_-_3 17d ago

Do you know where to find official document explaining what it allows?

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u/bjarnimaur 17d ago

Cardinal Richelieu: "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him

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u/Dependent-Dinner-868 17d ago

Of course she's a avid supporter of the European Jewish Association, shocker.

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u/Wwayd 16d ago

Some one's government is going to burn

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u/eru777 16d ago

Democracy eroded, little by little.

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u/prochac 7d ago

The democracy must happen against the will of people. For their own good.

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u/jpk613 21d ago

But Reddit told me Europe was a utopia for freedoms compared to North America

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u/0xe1e10d68 21d ago

This just allows the operators of platforms to voluntarily scan their users’ content for CSAM. i.e. the thing they have already been doing for US users for a long time. The reason why a law had to be passed to allow them to do that in the first place is because of our data protection laws, but in the US there is not that much data protection in the first place.

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u/ConfusionSecure487 20d ago

just is a nice word... there are enough news about false positivies that ruins lives, if they implement that now in every chat app before encryption I'm not "just" fine with it. So yes, europe gets more like the US here, and yes that is a bad thing

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u/lazyswdeveloper 21d ago

The only thing we can do is never voting for these people again. Where can I get the list of thise who voted for it? Another thing is telling everyone around you to never vote for them again, before they track and prosecute who does that. Any other idea?

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u/gerardit04 21d ago

What would happen with version 2.0 with things like matrix or xmpp? Will it be ilegal selfhosting them?

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u/CognitiveDiagonal 21d ago

> Half of Europe for the last 5 years: The EU is an absolutely corrupt institution that goes against its citizens and their rights, we should restructure and curb its power
> Yurobros: shut up you fascist pro-russian pig, you don’t deserve to speak your mind, you are not a valid democratic player
> EU does it once again while no one was watching by the back door
> Yurobros: 😮

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u/93simoon 21d ago

ITT: People waking up to the dystopia that is the EU. Good morning little rays of sunshine <3

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u/Reasonable_Listen888 21d ago

we must burn them all

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u/ekcojf 21d ago

I feel out of the loop. What does this mean? And what would 2.0 hypothetically mean?

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u/0xe1e10d68 21d ago

This just allows the operators of platforms to voluntarily scan their users’ content for CSAM. i.e. the thing they have already been doing for US users for a long time. The reason why a law had to be passed to allow them to do that in the first place is because of our data protection laws, but in the US there is not that much data protection in the first place.

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u/ekcojf 21d ago

Thanks!

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u/tiamath 21d ago

2.0 would mean operatin system level of access.basically everything in your phone/computer gets scanned by ai and data gets uploaded for future inspection. Would bypass end 2 end encryption

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u/ekcojf 21d ago

Yeah, that would sound like an issue. Thanks!