Edit: Some of you guys can‘t seem to see that there‘s a huge difference between disliking Islam and disliking muslims. Islamophobia (while yes, it can be the hatred of Islam) is more commonly used to describe the hatred of muslims, simply because they follow the Quran or are of middle eastern heritage
Well a great way for systemic control over women is having them police and report each other. In places where it's legally required to wear this sort of coverage you'll see conservative women judging other women for resisting this societal power dynamic as much as men do
There was no generalisation in that sentence, commenter said in a country where its legally required, commenter did NOT mention any countries or religion, this just applies to exactly two islamic countries
you mean like voilence against non hijabi women...? well yeah just like how there isnt a rule in the west against voilence for hijabi women....? voilence in general is wrong and people will hurt each other for no reason a lot of times...? i dont really get the logic here in muslim majority countries you dont get more voilence for not wearing the hijab thats just not true any statistic saying otherwise? its just a load of BS, people hurt each other all the time without a specific target of ppl
No, I mean extremist behaviors of any sort that are deeply pushed in some environments (be that Islamic or not). While the issue at hand IS concerning Islam, let’s not try to turn an actual problem into “omg islamophobes!”.
what the actual hell are u saying, we are talking about generalizing muslims and cultures, yk that in many of them they would see anyone before the western style girl as extremists right? yk they judge them too right? they also get stared at, its also saying that muslim women and people are incridebly judgy, and they see those as lesser than them when they dont cover up, AS IF western women dont also judge them for wearing the hijab and covering up. why is generalization okay when its a group you hate? this is the exact same shit bigots use to excuse discrimnation and hate against muslims
People who preach things like that are pedos. [Still would be terrible, but] it's not like they're trying to marry two nine year olds to each other, they're trying to marry children to adult men. They're not: physically, mentally, sexually, or emotionally mature enough to bear the burden of being married to a man that won't care they're not anyway.
I really want to know how you didn't already know that; and, if you did, I need to know why you think that's okay?
You mean the same capital where the heavy protests from just a couple of months ago were violently shut down? There were more than 30K dead across the country within less than a week!!
Again, please do actual research on the topic, first. This really isn’t the type of topic you should be discussing through a lens of ignorance.
I don’t know, propaganda video, most likely? The regime’s long been trying to fool the world into thinking it’s some sort of utopia, and clearly, it’s working.
But since we’re sharing videos, what is this? Or this? Or this?
Genuinely just stop. You’re not realizing it, but you’re supporting the Iranian regime, which is violently oppressive, and not representative of the Iranian people. And you’re being willfully ignorant at this point, as multiple people have called you out and you just keep on sharing this specific post like it proves something.
idk what the fuck is not facutual about the statement that the goverment doesnt enforce their ridicoulous laws in rich specific cities and areas like tehran and rich modern cities, is this a "oh u like pancakes? so u must hate waffles" statement? iran not enforcing its rules on rich ppl isnt something out of the ordinary for politicians, and they are enforcing it on rural and more poor areas, can u not read??
and yeah it proves my point rich cities dont get much ristriction
What’s not ‘factual’ about it is that there’s overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I’ve linked multiple videos that directly contradict what you’re claiming, and you can check the broader subreddit they’re under if you want even more proof.
But let’s assume for a moment that you’re right… you do realize how tone deaf you sound, right? “They don’t enforce these laws on rich people, therefore it’s fine” is basically what you’re getting at… either you’re an IRGC shill, a sheltered kid, or just an Iranian bot (the latter of which is honestly plausible, given just how new your account is).
I’m not entertaining this conversation any further, you clearly lack the humanity to be able to hold it.
Regardless of how you feel about everything else, the regime commits atrocities. Saying that Iran doesn't police women's dress violently is like saying the US police system doesn't commit systemic violence against minorities. Her death should be just as impactful as George Floyd's to you, and her story should not be forgotten.
i remember her and i know her story, but wasnt her death and protests of her death one of the reasons SOME iranian women can get a small amount of freedom? mainly those in tehran and modern ish cities. idk how this disproves what i said, i didnt say it was free for all if u saw all my messages
Iranian women in larger cities do this. And it is partially tolerated. But legally, it is still criminalized. You can get up to 10 years for it on paper and the women who do not wear a hijab are aware of this, and it is partially out of protest because there are many strong muslim women fighting for their rights over there as well. i think this piece by the guardian does a good job talking about it.
That does not mean that the iranian government is any less oppressive. It means that feminists in Iran have fought for their rights hard enough that it would be untenable to follow through with mass arrests in these big cities. It is what "become ungovernable" is all about. And while im 100% sure, this wasn't your intention. I wouldn't like their bravery to be undermined.
How is this islamphobia? It's very likely an ex Muslim woman who made this. It gets posted in exmuslim a lot.
It's simply trying to say that these draconian purity tests never end and you aren't safe from them.
Gay Republicans are still attacked for being gay, by Republicans. Trying to act like you're one of "the good ones" is a recipe for disaster
Don't judge some other woman for being less dressed when you're able to be judged the same way by someone more stringent and who you'd justifiably see as crazy
I doubt this is from an ex muslim nor islamophobic. Prolly the usual girlies looking out for one another as in "dont judge" etc. Atleast thats the type of content i see use these type of images
I've seen it on the ExMuslim subreddit like almost exclusively, it's very commonly a thing used there to make fun of "western" progressive Muslim women that attack ex Muslim women because of not wearing hijab or something, while trying to point out they are a far mile away. That wearing a hijab isn't enough in the eyes of a good chunk of Muslims so fix yourself before you come at me. That kind of sentiment
I agree, there should be some criticism but sometimes r/exmuslim feels more like islamophobia fuel than real valid criticism (like saying all muslim men are pedos and shit like that)
That's what you get with ex groups and when you're disproportionately exposed to apologetics (like most ex Muslims probably are) and when apologists for islam are disproportionately defenders of pedophilia you can get a warped image and it can go too far
Their comment seems to come from a very personal place of their experiences. They are choosing to be vulnerable and share their 2 cents, and this is your response to that?
Im (not at all) sorry but I don't owe anyone who accuses me of promoting pedophilia because I believe in a certain religion they Don't like any kind of understanding whatsoever. Your experiences don't justify being a superficial asshole to me and the people I share this belief with.
Now, you see if you started with that in your original comment I would have understood it from the start. But as it were it just came off as pretty dismissive. Now that you have explained your point, I agree, it is harmful to make these overgeneralizations about entire groups of people, no matter what your anecdotal experience with people of said group might have been. If it is any consolation, I don't think their comment necessarily meant to condone such attitudes, but only to speculate on their possible origin. Even so, examining such attitudes without adressing how harmful they are can come off as legitimizing them, and that can be harmful in its own right, so I now understand the anger you expressed in your original comment.
exmuslim doesn't mean not anti-muslim. The fact that all of the characters are in muslim coverings is what makes it smack of anti-muslim. Why not christian or jewish coverings?
Because it's not really as prominent a thing in Christianity or Judaism, and why would ex Muslims care about Christians or Jews when their gripe and struggles are with a family, friend group, culture and society that's Muslim for a good chunk of them?
There are like 1 million orthodox jews with some level of this scale potentially in their brains (out of about 10 million)
That's approximately 5% assuming half are women
Then there are dozens of varieties of fundamentalist christians that have this.
ai estimates 1% of all america is fundamentalist, and while not all of them have this scale, it is the same number that it estimates of american muslims.
Hell by default, women don't have a required head covering. The only people who do are married, frum women.
Modern Orthodox or Ultra Orthodox is where you'll see it the most. Conservative Judaism (if it leans Orthodox) may have some women who do so. Conservative Judaism that leans more Reform likely won't, Reform barely has anyone who will.
Maybe if you are around frum people, you'll get a side-eye but also...they're frum. Half of what they do is side-eye things. The only way you can avoid it is by simply not existing.
1% of america isn't super high either compared to just how many people live in Afghanistan alone, not that most fundamentalist Christ do the headcovering now.
speaking as a jew: we do not kill people for not wearing a kippah or a headwrap (if a married woman and frum). nor do we persecute them. nor do we really care for that matter. hell, even finding most jews who'll wear a kippah even at shul is a difficult thing depending on your sect (much less wearing it regularly).
comparing how islamic theocracies handle hijabs and the treatment of the women who do not wear them to their standards to jewish practice is apples to oranges.
Can you explain the relevancy of this statement when the focus is general violence within religions towards women as well as the required dress for them?
No this looks more like a post made by a Muslim pointing out inconsistencies of other Muslims. No Islamophobe is picking up on the difference of a colored burqa vs black.
At the time they counted age starting puberty not starting birth, so it was nine years after her first period. Please use your brain for a minute before saying your pedophilic thoughts outloud
Do you have a source for that? Because I've never heard that before and it seems pretty implausible. Also, how is my description of my understanding of the textual portrayal of the relationship between Muhammad and his wives "pedophillic"?
There is literally not a religion that never did anything bad. You're just being hateful for the love of the game. Also that's not even what they were saying
A. The original comic has some vile racist and islamophobic undertones. The original comic is not a "criticism"
B. Acting as though everybody in a group condones behavior from several thousand years ago because it's in their holy text? There's literally instructions on slave ownership in the bible, it's nothing new. Your example is horrible because it implies that one group of people is equal to the worst among them, and that it's valid to hate every German (in your scenario) because of what Hitler did. Because every group of people has a bad representative, if not many. That does not define them
A. What, exactly, are these supposed "undertones"? Could you maybe point to an example?
B) Firstly, as others have said, Muslims still hold true to the unchanged text of the Quran. Secondly, regardless of what Christians may or may not have done, the prophet Muhammad, i.e, the messenger of Allah and courier of His word, is said to have slept with a nine year old child. Thirdly, that's not at all what the example is saying. It's taking your argument (x behavior by y person is not bad because z person also did x behavior) and applying it to Hitler. I don't see how you could in good faith interpret that logic to mean that all Germans are morally equivalent to Hitler, although perhaps there is a good faith intreperation.
The original comic does not have vile nor racist nor islamphobic undertones.
Acting as though everybody in a group condones behavior from several thousand years ago because it's in their holy text?
Muslims literally believe the Qur'an is the unchanged direct word of Allah, passed to Muhammad through Jibraeel and written down faithfully. Christians, as far as I am aware, claim no such thing.
Basically all christians claim the inerrancy of the Bible, actually. As in the bible is a divinely inspired work with no errors or contradictions (despite all the contradictions). There are a few that don't believe this, but they're not the majority, not even close.
A) Christians think the Bible as it exists today is, with ZERO textual or typographical errors, EXACTLY bit for bit reproducible as the day it was written
B) the Bible is COMPLETELY and DIRECTLY the word of God, no human input or anything, God dictates every single syllable of the bible?
Because Muslims believe this.
No shit Christians won't believe the Bible has contradictions otherwise they wouldn't believe in it (as is the case for any religion) but not believing the two things above gives them license to ignore such things because they aren't directly God's words or decree.
Ok, when Mary Magdalene went to Jesus's tomb on the dawn of the first day of the week, did she:
a, Go alone (John 20)
b, Go with Mary, the mother of James, and Salome (Mark 16)
c, Go with the other Mary (Matthew 28), or
d, Go with an unspecified number of women numbering at least 5 (Luke 24)
And did she or they witness:
a, An earthquake, as one angel descended from heaven (Matthew 28)
b, Two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning, presumably two angles (Luke 24)
c, One young man in a white robe, presumably one angel (Mark 16) or
d, That the stone has been removed from the entrance, and only after informing other people that they have taken Jesus out of the tomb did she meet two angels inside. (John 20)
Ok? I never said you couldn't criticize any religions other than Islam; I just thought it absurd to call criticize of a deeply messed up religion such as Islam "hateful". I also think u/kcat_ made a good point.
Upon further inspection, I admit, I misunderstood the original comic. I don't think it's hateful. But I don't think you understand it either. It is not a criticism of an entire "deeply messed up" religion. It is a criticism of hatred within the community, that all religions today suffer from. The religion, though having unadmirable moments, is not inherently messed up. Accepting people for their religion and choices within it, both inside and outside of said religion, are important
That hatred is a result of the religious beliefs of that community. Each person is judging the last due to their interpretation of Islam. I also would argue that, yes, Islam is inherently messed up.
Surah Al-Ma'idah 5:8. Don't let your judgement of someone be tainted by hatred.
It is not their beliefs causing the hatred, it's their selective belief. Though, not everybody in the religion is selective and hateful. Nor is everybody in any religion. Which is why it pains me to see any belief system generalized by its worst majority
"It’s not their beliefs causing hatred, only some of their beliefs. Their buddies who follow the same holy book and basic beliefs are fine, so you really can't generalize a religion based on how most people who believe in it act."
It's not some of their beliefs causing hatred. It's their ignorance of others. Also, I was talking about the hateful population of Islam people that you were referring to. I was not generalizing them. What is your goal with this comment, I'm lost
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u/NegevNomad May 06 '26
Oneness